does baptism have a expiration date?

[Doug Brents]

You simply are not adequately informed about the sacraments for a debate on the issue.

You know, you’re right. I am not adequately prepared for a debate on fictional ideas like “sacraments”.

However, since I have spent the last 6 or more years studying salvation, with a focus on the necessity, or lack thereof as some believe, of baptism, I am wholly prepared for a debate on that topic which borders this one closely.

 

[Albion]

You know, you’re right. I am not adequately prepared for a debate on fictional ideas like “sacraments”.

Very well, then you understand why we cannot debate the pros and cons of the sacraments or any particular one of them.

 

[Doug Brents]

Very well, then you understand why we cannot debate the pros and cons of the sacraments or any particular one of them.

Yes I do. There is no point in debating the merits of nonexistent things.

 

[FireDragon76]

Baptism has no expiration date.

 

[Dan Perez]

hello all. i have a question pertaining to protestant baptism and time frame. i usually assume that when a person gets baptized at church, that person is already saved. i get that scheduling of baptism dont happen right away at our churches, but is it possible for an unsaved person to get baptized say now, and the person doesnt actually get saved for another 5 or 10 yrs. is the baptism still good? or do you think they should be re baptized?

i will say that i do believe in believers baptism, and not baby baptism. but if we can baptize babies now, and they dont gain salvation for another 40 yrs, does their initial baptism still count?? im very confused about this.

First Water Baptism in the OLD COVENANT ended at the cross , and ACTS 28:26-29 , Isa 6:1-13 and many more passages

BAPTISM will begin again in Mark 16:16-18 and that will happen in the first 3 1/2 years of the 7 year GREAT TRIBULATION .

dan p

 

[The Liturgist]

hello all. i have a question pertaining to protestant baptism and time frame. i usually assume that when a person gets baptized at church, that person is already saved. i get that scheduling of baptism dont happen right away at our churches, but is it possible for an unsaved person to get baptized say now, and the person doesnt actually get saved for another 5 or 10 yrs. is the baptism still good? or do you think they should be re baptized?

i will say that i do believe in believers baptism, and not baby baptism. but if we can baptize babies now, and they dont gain salvation for another 40 yrs, does their initial baptism still count?? im very confused about this.

No one validly baptized* should ever be re-baptized. The Nicene Creed includes “I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins**. (Ephesians 4:5; Acts 2:38)”

* The definition of a valid baptism varies between denominations, but every doctrinally normative Christian church requires that it be in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

** May be interpreted as baptism is a matter of obedience and not a requirement for salvation or as a regenerating ordinance.

 

[Dan Perez]

No one validly baptized* should ever be re-baptized. The Nicene Creed includes “I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins**. (Ephesians 4:5; Acts 2:38)”

* The definition of a valid baptism varies between denominations, but every doctrinally normative Christian church requires that it be in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

** May be interpreted as baptism is a matter of obedience and not a requirement for salvation or as a regenerating ordinance.

And I believe in Eph 4:5 and here it says ONE // HEIS means only ONE !!

And the Greek word BAPTISM is not in the Greek text !!

And it always read ONE BAPRISMA and the one Baptisma , is speaking about the HOLY SPIRIT !

The Greek word BAPTISMA is seen 22 times from Matthew through 1 Peter 3:21 !!

dan p

 

[Doug Brents]

And I believe in Eph 4:5 and here it says ONE // HEIS means only ONE !!

And the Greek word BAPTISM is not in the Greek text !!

And it always read ONE BAPRISMA and the one Baptisma , is speaking about the HOLY SPIRIT !

The Greek word BAPTISMA is seen 22 times from Matthew through 1 Peter 3:21 !!

dan p

Yes, and the word BAPTISMA is the noun that means immersion:

Lexicon :: Strong's G908 - baptisma​

βάπτισμα​

Transliteration
baptisma
Pronunciation
bap'-tis-mah
Part of Speech
neuter noun
Root Word (Etymology)
From βαπτίζω (G907)
Greek Inflections of βάπτισμα [?]

1. immersion, submersion
   1. of calamities and afflictions with which one is quite overwhelmed
   2. of John's baptism, that purification rite by which men on confessing their sins were bound to spiritual reformation, obtained the pardon of their past sins and became qualified for the benefits of the Messiah's kingdom soon to be set up. This was valid Christian baptism, as this was the only baptism the apostles received and it is not recorded anywhere that they were ever rebaptised after Pentecost.
   3. of Christian baptism; a rite of immersion in water as commanded by Christ, by which one after confessing his sins and professing his faith in Christ, having been born again by the Holy Spirit unto a new life, identifies publicly with the fellowship of Christ and the church.
      
      In Rom 6:3, Paul states we are "baptised unto death" meaning that we are not only dead to our former ways, but they are buried. To return to them is as unthinkable for a Christian as for one to dig up a dead corpse! See also discussion of baptism under the previous Strong's number (907).

 

[bbbbbbb]

Yes, and the word BAPTISMA is the noun that means immersion:

Lexicon :: Strong's G908 - baptisma​

βάπτισμα​

Transliteration
baptisma
Pronunciation
bap'-tis-mah
Part of Speech
neuter noun
Root Word (Etymology)
From βαπτίζω (G907)
Greek Inflections of βάπτισμα [?]

1. immersion, submersion
   1. of calamities and afflictions with which one is quite overwhelmed
   2. of John's baptism, that purification rite by which men on confessing their sins were bound to spiritual reformation, obtained the pardon of their past sins and became qualified for the benefits of the Messiah's kingdom soon to be set up. This was valid Christian baptism, as this was the only baptism the apostles received and it is not recorded anywhere that they were ever rebaptised after Pentecost.
   3. of Christian baptism; a rite of immersion in water as commanded by Christ, by which one after confessing his sins and professing his faith in Christ, having been born again by the Holy Spirit unto a new life, identifies publicly with the fellowship of Christ and the church.
      
      In Rom 6:3, Paul states we are "baptised unto death" meaning that we are not only dead to our former ways, but they are buried. To return to them is as unthinkable for a Christian as for one to dig up a dead corpse! See also discussion of baptism under the previous Strong's number (907).

I still think the Eastern Orthodox have baptism down to a perfect science. They take the baby, sprinkle it with water, pour water over its head, immerse it in water not once but three times, the anoint it with oil. If that baby isn't baptized by the end of the process, then it will never be.

 

[Doug Brents]

I still think the Eastern Orthodox have baptism down to a perfect science. They take the baby, sprinkle it with water, pour water over its head, immerse it in water not once but three times, the anoint it with oil. If that baby isn't baptized by the end of the process, then it will never be.

Infant baptism is meaningless since one of the prerequisites to baptism is belief, and the infant is not able to understand the Gospel, much less respond to it.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Infant baptism is meaningless since one of the prerequisites to baptism is belief, and the infant is not able to understand the Gospel, much less respond to it.

Which is more significant - belief or baptism?

 

[Doug Brents]

Which is more significant - belief or baptism?

Without belief baptism only gets you wet (thus infants who are "baptized" just get wet, there is no Spiritual action). But without baptism, belief is dead and meaningless (you don't really believe). Both are equally significant.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Without belief baptism only gets you wet (thus infants who are "baptized" just get wet, there is no Spiritual action). But without baptism, belief is dead and meaningless (you don't really believe). Both are equally significant.

Thanks!

 

[Dan Perez]

Without belief baptism only gets you wet (thus infants who are "baptized" just get wet, there is no Spiritual action). But without baptism, belief is dead and meaningless (you don't really believe). Both are equally significant.

Will you please show that verse that says , " But without baptism , belief is dead , as I missed that verse and will study it .

dan p

 

[Doug Brents]

Will you please show that verse that says , " But without baptism , belief is dead , as I missed that verse and will study it .

dan p

James 2:20, 22, 24, 26 - without action there is no faith/belief (pistis).
Mark 16:16, Matt 28:19, Acts 2:38, John 3:5 - through baptism, an act that man must do, (an action of faith) one becomes saved (enters the Kingdom), and without baptism one cannot enter into the Kingdom.
Rom 6:1-4, Col 2:11-14 - during baptism the Holy Spirit takes action to remove sin and unite one with Christ's death and resurrection.

 

[Bones49]

I agree with Brent. Baptism is meaningless for unbelievers, as it is a mere work. For baptism to have any meaning it must be accompanied with faith. The real work of baptism is the spiritual transformation that takes place when one undergoes this act of obedience to Christ.

Infant baptism is meaningless, an unbeliever being baptized is meaningless - as they don't have any faith. Works and faith must go together.

 

[zoidar]

I was baptized as an infant. As a believer I was convinced by people in church to be baptized again. I was told all these stories how people experienced their sins being washed away by the water. For me I experienced absolutely nothing, more than getting wet. It's not that I regret getting the believers baptism, I would probably do it it again if I only had been infant baptized, but that is just a theological stance of mine. I don't hold it as an issue of salvation.

 

[Doug Brents]

I was baptized as an infant. As a believer I was convinced by people in church to be baptized again. I was told all these stories how people experienced their sins being washed away by the water. For me I experienced absolutely nothing, more than getting wet. It's not that I regret getting the believers baptism, I would probably do it it again if I only had been infant baptized, but that is just a theological stance of mine. I don't hold it as an issue of salvation.

As an infant, did you know Jesus? Did you know you had sin and were lost, and so needed a savior? Did you confess Jesus as your Lord?

 

[zoidar]

As an infant, did you know Jesus? Did you know you had sin and were lost, and so needed a savior? Did you confess Jesus as your Lord?

No! But I don't know if I had a connection to Jesus as an infant.

 

[Doug Brents]

No! But I don't know if I had a connection to Jesus as an infant.

Then there was no salvation when you were baptized as an infant. Salvation requires faith. Faith is the understanding that we need a savior and the actions we take in response to that understanding that bring us into renewed union with God (repentance, confession of Jesus as Lord, and baptism). If you have not repented (Acts 3:19)(as an infant you have no sins to repent of (I believe)), and if you have not confessed Jesus as Lord (Rom 10:9-10)(Infants cannot speak or comprehend the need for this confession), then there is no effectiveness in being baptized: the Spirit does not move, even for an adult, who does not meet these criteria.