does baptism have a expiration date?

Lifelong_sinner

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hello all. i have a question pertaining to protestant baptism and time frame. i usually assume that when a person gets baptized at church, that person is already saved. i get that scheduling of baptism dont happen right away at our churches, but is it possible for an unsaved person to get baptized say now, and the person doesnt actually get saved for another 5 or 10 yrs. is the baptism still good? or do you think they should be re baptized?

i will say that i do believe in believers baptism, and not baby baptism. but if we can baptize babies now, and they dont gain salvation for another 40 yrs, does their initial baptism still count?? im very confused about this.
 
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JIMINZ

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hello all. i have a question pertaining to protestant baptism and time frame. i usually assume that when a person gets baptized at church, that person is already saved. i get that scheduling of baptism dont happen right away at our churches, but is it possible for an unsaved person to get baptized say now, and the person doesnt actually get saved for another 5 or 10 yrs. is the baptism still good? or do you think they should be re baptized?

i will say that i do believe in believers baptism, and not baby baptism. but if we can baptize babies now, and they dont gain salvation for another 40 yrs, does their initial baptism still count?? im very confused about this.

The simple answer is NO it don't count.

Jesus Himself told us how the order is

Mar 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.

So what we see is, Believing comes first.
Then the Believer is to become Baptized.

The person who does not become a Believer is damed.

But the Believer who does not become Baptized, will continue to walk in sin, there is nothing about him that has changed, he is not a Born Again Believer, he is still living in the flesh, because the Holy Spirit indwells us upon Baptism unto Newness of life in the Spirit.

Gal_2:20
I am crucified with Christ:
nevertheless I live;
yet not I, but Christ liveth in me:
and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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hello all. i have a question pertaining to protestant baptism and time frame. i usually assume that when a person gets baptized at church, that person is already saved. i get that scheduling of baptism dont happen right away at our churches, but is it possible for an unsaved person to get baptized say now, and the person doesnt actually get saved for another 5 or 10 yrs. is the baptism still good? or do you think they should be re baptized?

i will say that i do believe in believers baptism, and not baby baptism. but if we can baptize babies now, and they dont gain salvation for another 40 yrs, does their initial baptism still count?? im very confused about this.
A baptism before being born again by the Holy Spirit is just taking a bath, it didn't count.
 
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Albion

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i get that scheduling of baptism dont happen right away at our churches, but is it possible for an unsaved person to get baptized say now, and the person doesnt actually get saved for another 5 or 10 yrs. is the baptism still good? or do you think they should be re baptized?
Baptism is indelible. Being the initiation sacrament, it cannot be repeated.

And it does not guarantee salvation. That's one reason why there's no age requirement mentioned in Scripture (despite what the churches that a minority of Christians belong to say about it).

Baptism forgives sin, imparts grace, and makes the recipient a member of Christ's church. In part, that's why there's no age requirement mentioned in Scripture (despite what the churches that a minority of Christians belong to say about it).

If the person is a young child and is baptized on the vows made for him by sponsors, usually parents, he must of course have a conversion experience at some later time, but baptism puts him on the right course towards that end. If it's an older person, we expect him to have make a commitment to Christ already, but if he actually hasn't...or falls away later on... he still must have a genuine conversion experience at some time, just as is the case with the person baptized as a young child.

i do believe in believers baptism, and not baby baptism. but if we can baptize babies now, and they dont gain salvation for another 40 yrs, does their initial baptism still count??
Absolutely.
 
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Andrewn

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hello all. i have a question pertaining to protestant baptism and time frame. i usually assume that when a person gets baptized at church, that person is already saved. i get that scheduling of baptism dont happen right away at our churches, but is it possible for an unsaved person to get baptized say now, and the person doesnt actually get saved for another 5 or 10 yrs. is the baptism still good? or do you think they should be re baptized?

i will say that i do believe in believers baptism, and not baby baptism. but if we can baptize babies now, and they dont gain salvation for another 40 yrs, does their initial baptism still count?? im very confused about this.
The answer depends on what you mean by baptism and what you mean by getting saved.

Most people think the meaning of these terms is agreed upon, but it is not. It is different in different denominations. So, what do they mean to you, a Calvinist?
 
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Albion

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The simple answer is NO it don't count.

Jesus Himself told us how the order is

Mar 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.

So what we see is, Believing comes first.
Then the Believer is to become Baptized.
The passage, when read in context, doesn't indicate that there is a necessary order to the two things. Begin reading before verse 16 and the reason for the order that's given for the two will become apparent.
 
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JIMINZ

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The passage, when read in context, doesn't indicate that there is a necessary order to the two things. Begin reading before verse 16 and the reason for the order that's given for the two will become apparent.

It's in the order it is because, only Believers can be Regenerated (Born Again).
The Spiritual Rebirth which takes place during Baptism, would NOT occur for the Non Believer.

Therefore one must first Believe in the only name named under heaven by which a man must be Saved, before Baptism would be of any effect.

The Non Believer is damned because he cannot partake of the New Birth experience, yes he could have someone Baptize him but, he would only be getting wet because, he does not Believe.

If your talking about the infant being Baptized, no other person can make any kind of confession of faith or stand in as proxy for the infant.
 
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Albion

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It's in the order it is because, only Believers can be Regenerated (Born Again).
The Spiritual Rebirth which takes place during Baptism, would NOT occur for the Non Believer.
That is your guess. However, if we read the preceding verses, we see this narrative leading up to the line you are referring to--

"Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. "

We can see, therefore, that the verse in red is a continuation of the narrative just before it and leads directly and logically to the first part of the statement we've been talking about. That's what determines the "order."
 
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JIMINZ

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That is your guess. However, if we read the preceding verses, we see this narrative leading up to the line you are referring to--

"Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. "

We can see, therefore, that the verse in red is a continuation of the narrative just before it and leads directly and logically to the first part of the statement we've been talking about. That's what determines the "order."

I really do not get what your trying so hard to spin here.

Believe + Baptism = Salvation, not just Baptism.

Explain the reason, purpose for Baptism. - - - - - Without First Believing.
 
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JIMINZ

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I'm sorry that's the case. But after two posts that include the explanation, plus reprinting the verses themselves, there's not a lot that's left.

I know exactly how you feel, I have tried my best but you refuse to understand.
 
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Andrewn

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But the Believer who does not become Baptized, will continue to walk in sin, there is nothing about him that has changed, he is not a Born Again Believer, he is still living in the flesh, because the Holy Spirit indwells us upon Baptism unto Newness of life in the Spirit.
Not really, this is not what Charismatics teach about baptism in the HS:

"Pentecostals identify three distinct uses of the word "baptism" in the New Testament:

  • Baptism into the body of Christ: This refers to salvation. Every believer in Christ is made a part of his body, the Church, through baptism. The Holy Spirit is the agent, and the body of Christ is the medium.[91]
  • Water baptism: Symbolic of dying to the world and living in Christ, water baptism is an outward symbolic expression of that which has already been accomplished by the Holy Spirit, namely baptism into the body of Christ.[92]
  • Baptism with the Holy Spirit: This is an experience distinct from baptism into the body of Christ. In this baptism, Christ is the agent and the Holy Spirit is the medium.[91]
"The fundamental requirement of Pentecostalism is that one be born again.[82] The new birth is received by the grace of God through faith in Christ as Lord and Savior.[83] In being born again, the believer is regenerated, justified, adopted into the family of God, and the Holy Spirit's work of sanctification is initiated.[84]"

Pentecostalism - Wikipedia

IOW, water baptism is not essential. "Those who have faith in Christ and repent are born again of the Holy Spirit and receive eternal life."
 
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The Liturgist

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hello all. i have a question pertaining to protestant baptism and time frame. i usually assume that when a person gets baptized at church, that person is already saved. i get that scheduling of baptism dont happen right away at our churches, but is it possible for an unsaved person to get baptized say now, and the person doesnt actually get saved for another 5 or 10 yrs. is the baptism still good? or do you think they should be re baptized?

i will say that i do believe in believers baptism, and not baby baptism. but if we can baptize babies now, and they dont gain salvation for another 40 yrs, does their initial baptism still count?? im very confused about this.

The ancient doctrine is that only one baptism is performed. Baptism is indelible. This is why if the traditional Protestant churches like the Anglicans, Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians and Moravians, or the Roman Catholics, or the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox, or the Assyrian Church of the East, have concerns about the validity of your baptism but do not reject it outright, like they would if it were performed by Mormons, they will conditionally baptize you.

This sounds complicated but is actually very simple; the only difference between conditional baptism and normal baptism is the pastor will add If you are not yet baptized, to the phrase I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

Here is a comparison of the two forms in Liturgical English, from the Anglican 1662 Book of Common Prayer, assuming a boy is being christened with the name Christopher:

Normal Baptism: Christopher, I baptize thee in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.

Conditional Baptism: If thou art yet unbaptized, Christopher, I baptize thee in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
 
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Yes, for many Christian denominations baptism does seem to have an expiration date. For example, infant baptism seems to reach its expiration at the age of confirmation, such that the individuals must undergo training to "confirm" that they are really Christians.

Actually that’s not quite true, most denominations that offer confirmation classes do not require it.

Furthermore, the Eastern churches (Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Assyrian Church of the East, and some of the sui juris Eastern Catholic churches in communion with Rome, like the various Greek Catholic Churches, which are primarily Eastern Orthodox churches that Rome took over by political or ecclesiastical intrigue, but whose liturgy and worship is the same as other Eastern Orthodox, except for the inclusion of prayers for the Pope) confirm infants, and everyone else, immediately after baptism, with no questions asked. The Sacrament is called chrismation, and it is bereft of the catechetical instruction and question-and-answer bit that Confirmation has; also it is normally performed by priests, as bishops are not required for it, unlike with Confirmation. Also, the Eastern churches then give Communion to everyone immediately after Baptism and Chrismation, including infants. There is no waiting until Age 7 for first communion. That said, in the Protestant church I grew up in, I first received communion as a toddler.
 
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The traditional Christian view is that when St. Paul says "one baptism" in Ephesians, he really does mean just one baptism.

There's no such thing as re-baptism, once a person is baptized, they're baptized. Since Baptism is God's work, not our work, it is perfect and cannot be undone.

A person can reject their baptism, but they can never become un-baptized. In the same way that a child can decide to disown their parents, but they can't change the fact that they were born.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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GreekOrthodox

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Yes, for many Christian denominations baptism does seem to have an expiration date. For example, infant baptism seems to reach its expiration at the age of confirmation, such that the individuals must undergo training to "confirm" that they are really Christians.

No, from the Lutheran side of things, they are already considered Christians through the sacrament of Baptism, Confirmation is a public admission of their personal faith. The big change is that they are now admitted to the Lord's Supper, following 1 Cor. 11: 28, '"Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup."

When I was growing up, I spent two years (7th and 8th grade) in confirmation classes, followed by a Q&A in front of the congregation. As I recall, the following Sunday, which was Palm Sunday, my class received Communion for the first time as communicant members of the LCMS.
 
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The traditional Christian view is that when St. Paul says "one baptism" in Ephesians, he really does mean just one baptism.

There's no such thing as re-baptism, once a person is baptized, they're baptized. Since Baptism is God's work, not our work, it is perfect and cannot be undone.

A person can reject their baptism, but they can never become un-baptized. In the same way that a child can decide to disown their parents, but they can't change the fact that they were born.

-CryptoLutheran

I understand that some individuals can outright reject their baptism and a large number of individuals find it to be quite sufficient to meet their need for salvation and are otherwise quite indifferent to Christianity. Are the latter group among those who reject their baptism or are they among those for whom baptism is still salvific?
 
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ViaCrucis

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I understand that some individuals can outright reject their baptism and a large number of individuals find it to be quite sufficient to meet their need for salvation and are otherwise quite indifferent to Christianity. Are the latter group among those who reject their baptism or are they among those for whom baptism is still salvific?

It's not my place to make a judgment as to the salvation of my brother or sister, Christ alone will separate the goats from the sheep and the tares from the wheat.

If I see someone who, having been baptized, and who confesses the same Christian faith, then I welcome them as a brother or sister. Who am I to know the contents of my brother's heart and conscience? God alone is fit to judge, and we confess Christ's return in judgment, and then and only then will all be said and done.

If I see my brother or sister in serious error, I will encourage them to speak to their pastor. If I can, I will offer what I believe is a more biblically sound exegesis and doctrinal position; I'll address the commandments of Christ and how we are to conduct ourselves. I'll speak of repentance of sin, and the hope of the Gospel for sinners.

So as it concerns the Christian who may be in error, or who may be wayward, the correct response is course correction--and ideally from their own pastor, as this is an integral part of the pastoral office and vocation: shepherding. But it would be deeply erroneous if I were to presume that my baptized brother or sister isn't "really saved" on account of this or that sin, or this or that doctrinal error, etc. I'm not the Judge of the quick and the dead, Jesus is. I'm just an ordinary sinful wretch like everyone else.

By turning the locus and activity of our salvation away from the objective, clear, explicit, and external word of God--God's saving grace in action in visible and verbal means--toward our selves, and our own moral abilities, or by whatever metric of fruit inspection, we make ourselves the agents of our own salvation.

In so doing we cease to preach the Gospel as Gospel and the Law as Law, confusing the two. We turn to ourselves, rather than to Christ and His Gospel, for the assurance and hope of our salvation.

When salvation becomes a question of, "What have we done?" it ceases to be about God's free and unconditional grace in the Crucified and Risen Lord Jesus, and instead it becomes all about how well we can measure up. Measure up to what? To God's Law? Sometimes, but frequently it is no longer about the commandment of God, but rather about whatever particular moralistic and legalistic rules and codes to make us feel better about ourselves.

Failing to live up to the high calling of God in the Law, we find other routes by which to puff ourselves up in our sinful flesh. When the Law is no longer preached as the Law, and when the Gospel is no longer preached as the Gospel, it becomes a bunch of us running around like chickens with our heads cut off either screaming about our own good works or weeping in despair over our total and abysmal failure.

This is the way to shipwreck a person's faith, make them them captain of their own salvation.

The Law remains, to condemn our sin and instruct us in the way we should live as the people of God. But to measure our salvation by the measure of the Law is to preach death to those in the grave. Since we are not the captains of our own salvation, we do not fasten ourselves to the ship of our own righteousness before God under the Law; but rather to the ship piloted by Christ, who drags us out of the deadly sea below and upon the security of His ship. He alone shall bring us to that distant shore, He alone will keep us, He alone will accomplish this.

That's why we put our faith in Him, not in the Law, not in ourselves, not in our works, but Him. Boasting only in Him.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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zoidar

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hello all. i have a question pertaining to protestant baptism and time frame. i usually assume that when a person gets baptized at church, that person is already saved. i get that scheduling of baptism dont happen right away at our churches, but is it possible for an unsaved person to get baptized say now, and the person doesnt actually get saved for another 5 or 10 yrs. is the baptism still good? or do you think they should be re baptized?

i will say that i do believe in believers baptism, and not baby baptism. but if we can baptize babies now, and they dont gain salvation for another 40 yrs, does their initial baptism still count?? im very confused about this.

I respond from the view you hold, believers baptism.

It's a tricky question actually. It can lead to an believer baptizing himself many times if he is uncertain about his salvation. I go with the one baptism counts. There might be times where another baptism could be considered: If you get baptized as an unbeliever (it actually happens), then I might get baptized again as I come to faith.
 
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