Doctrines of Devils?

[Monk Brendan]

I didn't realize I was on trial.

Is this some kind of inquisition?

Dear soul, you do understand that by posting anything on any sort of Christian message board, blog or forum, you are opening yourself up for attack, don't you? I can say two words, and get TEN alerts, saying that someone has quoted (usually to refute) my post, or liked it, or whatever.

And NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!

 

[amariselle]

Dear soul, you do understand that by posting anything on any sort of Christian message board, blog or forum, you are opening yourself up for attack, don't you? I can say two words, and get TEN alerts, saying that someone has quoted (usually to refute) my post, or liked it, or whatever.

And NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!

I wasn't referring to disputes or disagreements with my posts, I expect that. I was referring to claims to the effect that I personally change the word of God and encourage disobedience to Him. (None of which were supported).

 

[Monk Brendan]

I take everything to the Bible. But, afterall, I am "Sola Scriptura" I guess.

NO! We would never have made that leap of understanding.

I can only speak for myself, but in regards to the Catholic Church, I have actually gone to Catholic historians, as well as listened to Catholics discuss what they believe and read the Catechism (though not all of it yet) and official "Catholic answers" as well.

Which Catholic historians? And you have to read the whole Catechism of the Catholic Church, including the catechisms of all of the Eastern Churches in Communion with Rome, AND you have to have an understanding of the writings of ALL the church fathers, from St. Basil to St. John Chrysostom to Augustine, etc. Plus you need an understanding of the first seven Ecumenical Councils, and then you can take ALL of that back to the WHOLE bible--you know, the one that the whole Christian Church agreed were part of the Canon in the 4th Century, and who NEVER gave anyone authority to change or remove books, as Luther and the other Reformers did. You do that, and THEN you can come back and make pious pronouncements of preferring Protestant Theology.

 

[Phantasman]

The problem with christians is that we have become so lazy. Our fathers in the faith were so fervent and desirous of the Word of God. They searched the scriptures earnestly and bring up whatever is wrong to disgrace the devil. The Roman Catholic church hold its priests in bondage because of its gross link to the devil. there form of christianity as been so corrupted through the influence of the Roman empire which financed the early church

That's a very hard attack. Do you believe that that type of attacking comes from the Father?

While I agree that the early catholic (small c) gave rise to a separation, knowledge is the key to overcome ignorance. To judge anyone, even the Catholic church, is not of the Father.

I don't fight (Catholic) Orthodoxy, I explain why I don't follow it. God knows the heart of all, and the heart (soul, mind, spirit) is what is judged. Religion saves no one. No religion has the keys to the kingdom. No religion has the celestial power of the Father.

Jesus made it clear to the Pharisee's and the elders of the Jews:

Matthew:
31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

We become wary of man (men) leading men. The Spirit teaches you as well as they. And your own soul depends at the knowledge YOU seek and find, by where you seek it, and at what rate you wish to understand it.

 

[amariselle]

NO! We would never have made that leap of understanding.

Which Catholic historians? And you have to read the whole Catechism of the Catholic Church, including the catechisms of all of the Eastern Churches in Communion with Rome, AND you have to have an understanding of the writings of ALL the church fathers, from St. Basil to St. John Chrysostom to Augustine, etc. Plus you need an understanding of the first seven Ecumenical Councils, and then you can take ALL of that back to the WHOLE bible--you know, the one that the whole Christian Church agreed were part of the Canon in the 4th Century, and who NEVER gave anyone authority to change or remove books, as Luther and the other Reformers did. You do that, and THEN you can come back and make pious pronouncements of preferring Protestant Theology.

Actually, it becomes apparent pretty early on that there are major problems regarding the history and hiearchy of the Catholic Church. (In light of Scripture)

In any case, I don't follow Luther or any of the other reformers either, as thankful as I am for the stand they took against error in the Church.

As for my "pious pronouncements preferring Protestant Theology", I make no apologies for where the Bible and careful continuing research has led me.

Obviously I'm not alone in that. Everyone is responsible to look into things however, we should not just accept what we are told.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Let me get something straight. Eating fish on Friday--or not eating meat on Wednesday and Friday, is a discipline, and not a DOGMA. You do understand the difference, don't you? A dogma is something we are called to believe--not on pain of death, but to understand God's love better, and to love Him more.

A discipline is part of what St. Paul was talking about when he talked about disciplining his body. such as 1Cor 9:27 (KJV) “But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.”

Or 2Cor 12:7 (KJV) “And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.”

Saying NO to little things like a cheeseburger on Friday makes me stronger and I can say NO to satan when he tempts me with bigger things.

 

[amariselle]

Let me get something straight. Eating fish on Friday--or not eating meat on Wednesday and Friday, is a discipline, and not a DOGMA. You do understand the difference, don't you? A dogma is something we are called to believe--not on pain of death, but to understand God's love better, and to love Him more.

A discipline is part of what St. Paul was talking about when he talked about disciplining his body. such as 1Cor 9:27 (KJV) “But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.”

Or 2Cor 12:7 (KJV) “And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.”

Saying NO to little things like a cheeseburger on Friday makes me stronger and I can say NO to satan when he tempts me with bigger things.

So it's a personal choice that Catholics are free to make for themselves?

 

[Monk Brendan]

Obviously I'm not alone in that. Everyone is responsible to look into things however, we should not just accept what we are told.

Did you accept what you were told when you learned addition? 1+1 is ALWAYS going to equal 2, right? You have to accept it first to understand how math works.

Now, because you have not read ALL of the books and studies I recommended, then you cannot make a reasoned decision on the matters I am talking about. Go back to school.

 

[Monk Brendan]

So it's a personal choice that Catholics are free to make for themselves?

Duh! I made that abundantly clear a long time ago!

 

[Phantasman]

NO! We would never have made that leap of understanding.



Which Catholic historians? And you have to read the whole Catechism of the Catholic Church, including the catechisms of all of the Eastern Churches in Communion with Rome, AND you have to have an understanding of the writings of ALL the church fathers, from St. Basil to St. John Chrysostom to Augustine, etc. Plus you need an understanding of the first seven Ecumenical Councils, and then you can take ALL of that back to the WHOLE bible--you know, the one that the whole Christian Church agreed were part of the Canon in the 4th Century, and who NEVER gave anyone authority to change or remove books, as Luther and the other Reformers did. You do that, and THEN you can come back and make pious pronouncements of preferring Protestant Theology.

The whole Christian Church in the 4th century? I beg to differ. 300 out of 1800 asked to show up at Nicaea decided the Nicene Creed, and many of the 300 didn't agree (Arians) and were exiled and books burned. Out of the 300, most were Eastern Orthodox.

The twenty canons derived at Nicaea were so "physical and fleshly" it makes my head spin. It lacked spiritual understanding and knowledge, from my view.

 

[AACJ]

That reply is not allowed, and such will be reported next time

Thanks for your restraint and issuing a warning first.

 

[amariselle]

The whole Christian Church in the 4th century? I beg to differ. 300 out of 1800 asked to show up at Nicaea decided the Nicene Creed, and many of the 300 didn't agree (Arians) and were exiled and books burned. Out of the 300, most were Eastern Orthodox.

The twenty canons derived at Nicaea were so "physical and fleshly" it makes my head spin. It lacked spiritual understanding and knowledge, from my view.

I've found the history to be quite interesting and eye-opening myself.

 

[Monk Brendan]

The whole Christian Church in the 4th century? I beg to differ. 300 out of 1800 asked to show up at Nicaea decided the Nicene Creed, and many of the 300 didn't agree (Arians) and were exiled and books burned. Out of the 300, most were Eastern Orthodox.

The twenty canons derived at Nicaea were so "physical and fleshly" it makes my head spin. It lacked spiritual understanding and knowledge, from my view.

First off, there were 22 Arian bishops, so not the majority by any means. The Arian heresies were burned because the WERE heresy! Almost all of the Arians came back to the faith. The ones that didn't had many problems the rest of their lives. There is NO surviving Arian Church today!

All of the 300 there were Christians, because they represented the whole Christian Church, not just Eastern Orthodox, or Roman Catholic, or anything else. How about setting the various boundaries, diocesan lines, etc. And of course, trying to find liturgical norms.

But it is the Nicene Creed that shines out like a bright beacon. I don't know how often you profess it in your church, but for us, it's every Sunday.

 

[Der Alte]

The whole Christian Church in the 4th century? I beg to differ. 300 out of 1800 asked to show up at Nicaea decided the Nicene Creed, and many of the 300 didn't agree (Arians) and were exiled and books burned. Out of the 300, most were Eastern Orthodox.

Since they elected not to attend Nicaea the 1500 +/- forfeited their right to complain about the results. But as I read the history after all the arguing was finished only two of the 300+/- refused to sign the symbols and were exiled. One was later summoned by Constantine to be reinstated but died enroute.

The twenty canons derived at Nicaea were so "physical and fleshly" it makes my head spin. It lacked spiritual understanding and knowledge, from my view.

Have you actually read them? You got the first part wrong and I think you got this part wrong too. What exactly do you think was "physical and fleshly?" If you choose to respond please quote the actual writings from Nicaea not what some dood posted on his website.

 

[claninja]

Nor does eating potentially unhealthy food or getting married endanger ones salvation.)

It's interesting, apostles gave the gentiles a couple things to follow, basically abstaining from idol meat, blood, strangled foods, and sexual immorality. Would you say these things are equal? Would you say someone who continues in sexual immorality is less saved than someone who eats strangled foods or eats bloody steak?

 

[amariselle]

It's interesting, apostles gave the gentiles a couple things to follow, basically abstaining from idol meat, blood, strangled foods, and sexual immorality. Would you say these things are equal? Would you say someone who continues in sexual immorality is less saved than someone who eats strangled foods or eats bloody steak?

It's actually not my right to declare that anyone is "unsaved." In reality there is no such thing as "less saved" either. Salvation is not a gradual thing, but occurs when we turn to Christ and believe.

What's important to remember is that we cannot truly know how God is working in another Christian's life to bring them out of a sinful lifestyle. Discipleship is indeed a lifelong thing as we grow in Christian maturity and we should be encouraging and uplifting each other in that regard.

 

[SkyWriting]

Up until 1966 the law of a certain church group prohibited the eating of meat on all Fridays throughout the entire year.

And we now enjoy fish frys every Friday, so I have no regrets.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained." 1 Timothy 4:1-6

If the Bible says that forbidding to marry and commanding that people "abstain" from meats are "doctrines of devils", why do so many Christians accept these restrictions (often commanded and imposed by church leadership) as actually from God Himself?

Thoughts?

Hi this is a great question and worthy of much discussion. This is really the subject of many books as the documentation and establishments of a real good case takes time to develop. I will start with noting that the doctrines of demons is associated with departing from the faith and then a brief but not exhaustive list of topics is brought forth. One of the main current departures of faith and doctrines of demons is salvation by any other means then faith in Jesus Christ. The Masons if you do a thorough study you will find teach that Lucifer is the light bearer and great architect of the universe. They certainly do not start you out with this teaching and if you want proof look up quotes by leading masons Albert Pike and Manly P Hall. The masonic initiation has the newbie making a statement that they are ignorant of all truth and understanding and they are asked why are you here then they answer to seek the light. The master then points to a table with all the holy books of the world and asks what is their path towards enlightenment? The obvious teaching is all paths take you to the same place and this something the pope currently is promoting.
The 2nd great doctrine of demons is the gay marriage is acceptable.
Jesus said no one can serve two masters and you are either a child of God or Satan. A man named Anton Levey wrote the Satanic Bible. He is quoted in the 1950's talking about changing American culture. Here are a few of his quotes. "The Tv set (is the) Satanic family altar."

"Television is the major mainstream infiltration for the new satanic religion."

"It
should be brought out that we not only condone, but encourage all types
of what would be called sexual perversity and deviations because we
feel that in a few short years it will be established that everyone is a
sexual deviant and pervert.

In the Satanic Bible, "LaVey
explained that he was moved to establish the Church of Satan when he saw
the need for a church that would "recapture man's body and carnal
desires as objects of celebration."

"The Church of Satan
preaches a religious system that endeavors to overcome the repressions
and inhibitions of human instinctual behavior it believes has been
fostered by the Judeo-Christian tradition."

He sums up the entire Satanic Bible with do what though wilt is the whole of the law.

Now you churches with your rainbow flags out and all which master are you serving? Your values directly reflect Anton Lavey's thinking, imagine that you are more in agreement with the author of the Satanic Bible that with the Bible. Here are a few Bible verse on this subject that remind everyone that God is holy and the need for repentance and being covered by the blood of Christ and a turning away from sin is the prescription for salvation, not tolerance and acceptance.

1 cor 6
7 Now therefore, it is
already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another.
Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated? 8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! 9 Do
you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?
Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers,
nor homosexuals,[fn] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And
such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified,
but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit
of our God.

Adultery, lust, fornication, and homosexual relations are all still wrong in the Bible.
Romans 1 could not be any clearer,

26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise
also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their
lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and
receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[fn] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[fn] unmerciful; 32 who,
knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such
things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of
those who practice them.

Supporting homosexuality in scripture is being given over to a depraved mind. Scriptures also condemns those who practice this list of things but also those who approve of these practices. It says they are worthy of death.

God loves us all and that is true but the gospel is and has always been repent and believe and the list of things needing to repent of includes homosexuality. Telling this truth is love as the warning is those who practice these things will not inherit the kingdom of God but 100% of those who repent from what ever their sins are will be accepted.

 

[Phantasman]

First off, there were 22 Arian bishops, so not the majority by any means. The Arian heresies were burned because the WERE heresy! Almost all of the Arians came back to the faith. The ones that didn't had many problems the rest of their lives. There is NO surviving Arian Church today!

All of the 300 there were Christians, because they represented the whole Christian Church, not just Eastern Orthodox, or Roman Catholic, or anything else. How about setting the various boundaries, diocesan lines, etc. And of course, trying to find liturgical norms.

But it is the Nicene Creed that shines out like a bright beacon. I don't know how often you profess it in your church, but for us, it's every Sunday.

If we go by Eusebius, that would be the call. Considering that the Valentinians, Montanans, Marcionites and many others rivaled the catholic ideology, I would think (if they were part of the 1500 no shows) that they made the right choice. It was to create a Roman church, one emperors would see beneficial to the empire. The catholics bended their knee as the Apocalypse of Peter had Jesus saying they would.

"And there shall be others of those who are outside our number who name themselves bishop and also deacons, as if they have received their authority from God. They bend themselves under the judgment of the leaders. Those people are dry canals."- Peter

There is a reason the catholic ideology called these books heretical. It exposes them.

 

[amariselle]

Hi this is a great question and worthy of much discussion. This is really the subject of many books as the documentation and establishments of a real good case takes time to develop. I will start with noting that the doctrines of demons is associated with departing from the faith and then a brief but not exhaustive list of topics is brought forth. One of the main current departures of faith and doctrines of demons is salvation by any other means then faith in Jesus Christ. The Masons if you do a thorough study you will find teach that Lucifer is the light bearer and great architect of the universe. They certainly do not start you out with this teaching and if you want proof look up quotes by leading masons Albert Pike and Manly P Hall. The masonic initiation has the newbie making a statement that they are ignorant of all truth and understanding and they are asked why are you here then they answer to seek the light. The master then points to a table with all the holy books of the world and asks what is their path towards enlightenment? The obvious teaching is all paths take you to the same place and this something the pope currently is promoting.
The 2nd great doctrine of demons is the gay marriage is acceptable.
Jesus said no one can serve two masters and you are either a child of God or Satan. A man named Anton Levey wrote the Satanic Bible. He is quoted in the 1950's talking about changing American culture. Here are a few of his quotes. "The Tv set (is the) Satanic family altar."

"Television is the major mainstream infiltration for the new satanic religion."

"It
should be brought out that we not only condone, but encourage all types
of what would be called sexual perversity and deviations because we
feel that in a few short years it will be established that everyone is a
sexual deviant and pervert.

In the Satanic Bible, "LaVey
explained that he was moved to establish the Church of Satan when he saw
the need for a church that would "recapture man's body and carnal
desires as objects of celebration."

"The Church of Satan
preaches a religious system that endeavors to overcome the repressions
and inhibitions of human instinctual behavior it believes has been
fostered by the Judeo-Christian tradition."

He sums up the entire Satanic Bible with do what though wilt is the whole of the law.

Now you churches with your rainbow flags out and all which master are you serving? Your values directly reflect Anton Lavey's thinking, imagine that you are more in agreement with the author of the Satanic Bible that with the Bible. Here are a few Bible verse on this subject that remind everyone that God is holy and the need for repentance and being covered by the blood of Christ and a turning away from sin is the prescription for salvation, not tolerance and acceptance.

1 cor 6
7 Now therefore, it is
already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another.
Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated? 8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! 9 Do
you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?
Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers,
nor homosexuals,[fn] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And
such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified,
but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit
of our God.

Adultery, lust, fornication, and homosexual relations are all still wrong in the Bible.
Romans 1 could not be any clearer,

26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise
also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their
lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and
receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[fn] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[fn] unmerciful; 32 who,
knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such
things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of
those who practice them.

Supporting homosexuality in scripture is being given over to a depraved mind. Scriptures also condemns those who practice this list of things but also those who approve of these practices. It says they are worthy of death.

God loves us all and that is true but the gospel is and has always been repent and believe and the list of things needing to repent of includes homosexuality. Telling this truth is love as the warning is those who practice these things will not inherit the kingdom of God but 100% of those who repent from what ever their sins are will be accepted.

There's no doubt that that these things must be denounced. We just need to be careful though that we don't make works (stopping all sin/keeping the Law) a condition for Salvation. As we know, works don't save us and we can come to Christ even though we may still struggle with sin. Being born again through faith in Him, the Holy Spirit works in us as believers to become more and more like Jesus.

As for admitting such immorality into the Church and celebrating it? I agree that such would be to entertain doctrines of demons, which the Bible warns about. Also, deception usually is a progression, it creeps in gradually, and like leaven, alters everything.

Unfortunately many of the Bible's warnings go unheeded and people are led astray.