Doctrines of Devils?

[amariselle]

I agree but lots and lots of FALSE information out there!

I can only speak for myself, but in regards to the Catholic Church, I have actually gone to Catholic historians, as well as listened to Catholics discuss what they believe and read the Catechism (though not all of it yet) and official "Catholic answers" as well.

I take everything to the Bible. But, afterall, I am "Sola Scriptura" I guess. All I know is the Bible comes before any teachings of man.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I agree but lots and lots of FALSE information out there!

Thus, the title, Scripture, and purpose of the thread, and the Gospel.

 

[friend of]

Amein

Amen*

 

[Goatee]

Thus, the title, Scripture, and purpose of the thread, and the Gospel.

Scripture can be very much mis interpreted. Everyone thinks they have the correct interpretation!

 

[friend of]

Scripture can be very much mis interpreted. Everyone thinks they have the correct interpretation!

Only John has the correct interpretation and he lives in an igloo in Nunavut

 

[amariselle]

Scripture can be very much mis interpreted. Everyone thinks they have the correct interpretation!

Which is why we need to look at Scripture in context and also realize that "Scripture interprets Scripture." God truly is not the Author of confusion.

It can and does take careful and diligent study oftentimes. A lot of it however, is pretty obvious and straightforward.

 

[Phantasman]

I think from Scripture we can conclude that we are indeed in "the latter times." As for the Law, well, Satan has been trying to get people to believe they have to do something to be saved all along.

They do have to do "something" to be saved.

John:
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Love and knowledge of the Father is what saves us. It is evident in our works.

 

[Phantasman]

You won't find this in Scripture anywhere. (in context of Salvation, God's Plan, etc )
(edit add: later you responded mistakenly thinking I was referring to Jesus perfectly fulfilling all the requirements of TORAH.
Actually, if you check all Scripture, you will find His Perfect Obedience to TORAH was not the reason the Old Covenant ended, and neither was Jesus fulfillment of anything the reason the Old Covenant ended.) Subject to verification in Scripture, of course...... see ? Test everything, and don't take offense at Jesus or His disciples. "Blessed is everyone who does not find any offense in ME (JESUS) " ..

Jesus said that those who followed the Torah died.

John:
31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.

John:
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

You see the burning bush as God as the Jews did. It was an angel, as the OT was a time of angels, whom we will judge.

If you believe what you wrote:
"Blessed is everyone who does not find any offense in ME (JESUS) "

Those who followed the OT not only found offense, they killed Jesus and resumed their belief at the Council of Jerusalem (that Jesus was not the Messiah the OT talked of.

The OT is dangerous to (true) Christian theology.

 

[amariselle]

They do have to do "something" to be saved.

John:
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Love and knowledge of the Father is what saves us. It is evident in our works.

We do not earn salvation. It is by faith alone in Christ's finished work on the cross. By grace, through faith, lest any man should boast.

The moment we add works, grace is no more grace.

Verse after verse confirms this. To be saved we believe on the Son.

Salvation should lead to works, but the works themselves do not save us.

 

[claninja]

There are several denominations. But, as I have said repeatedly, it is not the purpose of this thread to target or call out specific denominations.

why do so many Christians accept these restrictions (often commanded and imposed by church leadership) as actually from God Himself?

This is a pretty interesting topic, as we also have scripture of the apostles telling believers it is better not to marry if possible and that gentiles should abstain from certain meats
1 Corinthians 7:8 To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am.
Acts 15:28-29 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”

Now I don't believe these things were imposed on believers to save them, but only to help them in their daily lives. But if the believers went against the advice of the apostles, and partook in eating unclean things or sexual immorality, I'm sure the apostles would have said they are not true believers. So let's apply that to today. If we are educated and know that western diets high in animal protein and processed foods result in increased obesity, diabetes, cancer, and heart disease, and yet continue to promote the American diet, is that morally ok?

 

[Dkh587]

Forgive me, but the first lesson to be learned in Biblical study is to take what the face value of the text says, and if it says, "thou shalt not" then you're not supposed to twist it around to "you must!" Peter was told 3 times to slaughter and eat the "unclean" animals. You can make all the back flips you want to get around it, but slaughter and eat can't be made into "don't eat."

Peter's vision wasn't about food, as explained by him in Acts 10:28.

Acts 10:28 KJV

And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Yahudi to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Notice that Peter does NOT say "God has showed me that it's okay to eat swine & all other unclean animals" - because the vision is NOT about food.

Besides, it doesn't even say that Peter ate anything. The scripture says that he heard the voice 3 times and the sheet went back up.

Acts 10:9-16 KJV

On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

 

[Vicomte13]

I wonder the exact same thing.

In the 11th century, a certain high ranking church official issued a decree requiring all church leaders to be celibate

Abstinence is one of our oldest Christian traditions. From the first century, the day of the crucifixion has been traditionally observed as a day of abstaining from flesh meat (“black fast”) to honor Christ who sacrificed his flesh on a Friday.

Up until 1966 the law of a certain church group prohibited the eating of meat on all Fridays throughout the entire year.

What about blood sausage, food made with blood. Is that ok?

 

[AACJ]

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained." 1 Timothy 4:1-6

If the Bible says that forbidding to marry and commanding that people "abstain" from meats are "doctrines of devils", why do so many Christians accept these restrictions (often commanded and imposed by church leadership) as actually from God Himself?

Thoughts?

Satan and his angels work hard to get people to work hard to meet God's standard of righteousness. But of course man can never pay the price of value of the soul, such value being determined by creation and the cross.

Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? (Mark 8:37)

This is the great divide between the Gospel of Christ and every other belief system in the world. Who or what is our Savior: man and his wisdom/devices/works/personal effort or Christ Jesus and his work on the cross.

 

[Phantasman]

We do not earn salvation. It is by faith alone in Christ's finished work on the cross. By grace, through faith, lest any man should boast.

The moment we add works, grace is no more grace.

Verse after verse confirms this. To be saved we believe on the Son.

Salvation should lead to works, but the works themselves do not save us.

That IS Orthodox theology. I do not share it. For every verse you say works aren't important, I'll give you five that says it is/was. Without works, Jesus would have been nothing. It appears 16 times in John.

John:
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

The Pastorals (1&2 Timothy, Titus) are not something to put a lot of faith in, since they dispute some Gospel messages and scholars say that they were written after the Apostle Pauls death and do not share Pauls writing style. The Gospel is clear on such ignorance.

 

[AACJ]

That is not true. What He showed Peter in the vision was that GENTILES were not unclean.

"I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews...."(Galatians 2:14)

 

[Monk Brendan]

I understand that, but was speaking from a Catholic point of view.

And I do understand the Roman Catholic point of view. I grew up RC.

 

[Monk Brendan]

The Roman Catholic church hold its priests in bondage because of its gross link to the devil. there form of christianity as been so corrupted through the influence of the Roman empire which financed the early church

That reply is not allowed, and such will be reported next time

 

[Monk Brendan]

....And most Christian Churches around the world will loose their members!

They are free to go. I would hate to LOSE them, but they have been LOOSED by the Blood of Jesus.

 

[amariselle]

This is a pretty interesting topic, as we also have scripture of the apostles telling believers it is better not to marry if possible and that gentiles should abstain from certain meats
1 Corinthians 7:8 To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am.
Acts 15:28-29 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”

Now I don't believe these things were imposed on believers to save them, but only to help them in their daily lives. But if the believers went against the advice of the apostles, and partook in eating unclean things or sexual immorality, I'm sure the apostles would have said they are not true believers. So let's apply that to today. If we are educated and know that western diets high in animal protein and processed foods result in increased obesity, diabetes, cancer, and heart disease, and yet continue to promote the American diet, is that morally ok?

Perhaps not "morally" okay, but refraining from such things certainly does not make one any more or less "saved." (Nor does eating potentially unhealthy food or getting married endanger ones salvation.)

Nor is it the right (Biblically) of any believer to impose these religious demands on others. (Not marrying, not eating certain foods, setting aside one day over other days).

Romans 14 clarifies this.

Our personal convictions between us and God is these matters should definitely be adhered to, but not forced upon our brothers and sisters in Christ who may not be convicted as we are and who could be caused to stumble in their faith if we burden them with our convictions in regards to behaviour.

 

[amariselle]

That IS Orthodox theology. I do not share it. For every verse you say works aren't important, I'll give you five that says it is/was. Without works, Jesus would have been nothing. It appears 16 times in John.

John:
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

The Pastorals (1&2 Timothy, Titus) are not something to put a lot of faith in, since they dispute some Gospel messages and scholars say that they were written after the Apostle Pauls death and do not share Pauls writing style. The Gospel is clear on such ignorance.

The Bible, in its entirety, is the inspired word of God, so I can't agree with you that we should not trust some books as much as others.

Again, salvation and discipleship are two separate things.

Also, Jesus' works were a reflection and a confirmation of Who He is, a fulfillment of prophecies and a revealing of the Father.

Jesus would have been no less God, even if He hadn't done all the works He did. God is God in and of Himself, He needs nothing and no one to be God.