KInda reminds me of the folks who steadfastly declare that the Revelation is perfectly clear in its message, but then no two of them can agree what that message is.
But it is perfectly clear... it is the baggage that people come to the book with that gets in the way.KInda reminds me of the folks who steadfastly declare that the Revelation is perfectly clear in its message, but then no two of them can agree what that message is.
I think I've set forth why I don't believe that the Creation narrative in Genesis is a technical document. It doesn't provide sufficient detail, it doesn't have anything like the scope necessary to cover th complexity of the universe as created, and its intended audience could never have understood any of it if it had. So the writer of Genesis provided a two page summary of what happened that told all the story that needed telling in that context and drove on.So why if you do not believe that God made things as is written...
And if His good plan involves pain, suffering and death...
And that even He doesn't even have the ability to do what He said He would do...
Why do you follow this so called "God"?
That might ba a dangerous undertaking. I've been told that if you get both the Korean and the Redneck genes lit off at the same time the results are potentially catastrophic.And unless you deny Him I will start cutting off your fingers and toes, slowly.
Of course He did! You just want to believe that's all He did! Not true at all. No book could have contained what He actually did!Now in the above scenario the belief that God can do what He said He did
Just keep God confined so He doesn't do anything frightening. Two pages wil be plenty.shields me from any uncertainty.
I hope it doesn't involve blowing anyone else up. (Yes, that was a cheat shot, but it is a fact that your belief in the literal Genesis is shared by folks who do blow up other people for their faith.)I will suffer and die without a wobble in my faith.
My faith isn't in floods, evolution, or the age of the earth. I set no store by any of them. My faith is in Jesus Christ, end of.But a young Earth, evolutionist, flood denier has multiple weak points in their faith that can be exploited.
Depends on the basis iof your faith. Mine isn't in Genesis. Mine is in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The OT is of little importance to me. Wanna hear my Creation summary? Here it is:You will argue against this idea(most likely), but if you just follow the logic you will see that this is the way things work out when you start believing the little lies that lie in wait.
That's clear enough. Makes for a tiny Bible, though, doesn't it? Seems like there's a lot more to the New Testament than that. Reckon any of it might make a diffeence?Oh, so the verse below is not clear to you, if so what part do you not understand.
Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
Your rant of a response is indicative of a group idolization.I think I've set forth why I don't believe that the Creation narrative in Genesis is a technical document. It doesn't provide sufficient detail, it doesn't have anything like the scope necessary to cover th complexity of the universe as created, and its intended audience could never have understood any of it if it had. So the writer of Genesis provided a two page summary of what happened that told all the story that needed telling in that context and drove on.
You want to see the details of what God actually did, start with astronomy, then move on to geology, then oceanography, and then get back to me for the rest of the assignment.
Does God have the ability to do what He did? Apparently so, He did it. You just don't care for the way He did it, and how long it took Him. I'd say that's your problem. Sunds like the peopl who complain, "Where is the promise of His coming?" God's just too slow for their tastes.
That might ba a dangerous undertaking. I've been told that if you get both the Korean and the Redneck genes lit off at the same time the results are potentially catastrophic.
The net-net, though, is that I see little or no reason to deny God for not having lived up to your beliefs. Your faith can't endure God having lavished His time and attention on the design of the Creation, to make it the both the ultimate feat of engineering and the final triumph of art. You take the bureaucrat's view; you don't care how well it works or how beautiful it is. You don't give a hoot as long as it happened NOW! That apparently isn't the way God operates. You get the supernovas and the hedgehogs, Everest and edelweis.
No, you want God's magnificence to be restricted to what the scribe included in that two page summary. Sorry mate, but it just doesn't work that way.
Of course He did! You just want to believe that's all He did! Not true at all. No book could have contained what He actually did!
Just keep God confined so He doesn't do anything frightening. Two pages wil be plenty.
I hope it doesn't involve blowing anyone else up. (Yes, that was a cheat shot, but it is a fact that your belief in the literal Genesis is shared by folks who do blow up other people for their faith.)
My faith isn't in floods, evolution, or the age of the earth. I set no store by any of them. My faith is in Jesus Christ, end of.
Depends on the basis iof your faith. Mine isn't in Genesis. Mine is in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The OT is of little importance to me. Wanna hear my Creation summary? Here it is:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
That's it, old man. You can rip Genesis out and toss it in the trash if you want, it won't bother me a bit. There's all I need to know about the Creation.
Jesus says that whether you spend your eternity with Him or with the devil depends on what you do for the least among us. I believe Him. I wish you did.No i do not, The Bible states a person receives God's free gift of Eternal Life by belief in Jesus.
Notice you picked a verse that sounds to you like it's right, and I pointed out to you places where Jesus says the opposite of what you thought the verse said. So there we are. And it's not surprising that there are Christians who ignore Matthew and think salvation is just crying "Lord, Lord." Because they interpret it differently. And far as I can see both sides are sincere. You just proved my point that if scripture were clear on a subject ,then all Christians would agree on it.But regardless, of our back and forths. You proved my point that your statement about scripture being clear on a subject, then all (christians) would agree is not true.
Yep, that's what they all say before they fall to fighting about what it really means.But it is perfectly clear... it is the baggage that people come to the book with that gets in the way.
So say they all.If you don't add anything(baggage) to the text it is a simple read.
You need to hold forth on the GT Eschatology forum <Laugh>If you don't remove anything(lack of faith in the truth of the text) then the text becomes even easier to read.
Remember that Revelation is the book that comes with instructions on how to use it.
Seems like an important fact here. We aren't given an age for the Earth in the first three chapters of Genesis. So it can't be anything at all, since it doesn't exist.So you agree that this post was not directed at you and you again edited out my question to the poster.
In English, please? But I take it to mean you don't agree. <Laugh>Your rant of a response is indicative of a group idolization.
No, I just think your "perspective" is grossly in error.So dedicated to one viewpoint that one is.unable to see the other person's perspective.
Please listen to Him.
Jesus says that whether you spend your eternity with Him or with the devil depends on what you do for the least among us. I believe Him. I wish you did.
Notice you picked a verse that sounds to you like it's right, and I pointed out to you places where Jesus says the opposite of what you thought the verse said. So there we are. And it's not surprising that there are Christians who ignore Matthew and think salvation is just crying "Lord, Lord." Because they interpret it differently. And far as I can see both sides are sincere. You just proved my point that if scripture were clear on a subject ,then all Christians would agree on it.
Thank you.
I get how much you don't want to believe what Jesus says in Matthew 25. But it is true. Here's a way to resolve this for you:
James 2: 17 So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself. 18 But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith. 19 Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
That's clear enough. Makes for a tiny Bible, though, doesn't it? Seems like there's a lot more to the New Testament than that. Reckon any of it might make a diffeence?
Thanks for asking... I am sure you will jump to conclusions again... but we can deal with that as it happens.
The first 3 Chapters of Genesis is sufficient for salvation.
Also they have the power to save.
So how do you understand the above two statements?
So the first three chapters of Genesis show God's power, mans position to God, and mans fall by Satans machinations.
This is enough to be salvational for the next 2000 years until Abram gets selected to be God's example on Earth.
Sufficient.
The next bit depends on how much of Satan's lie you have swallowed.
You don't believe in a young Earth.
Do you believe mankind is the end result of evolution or the final created work of the Lord?
Do you believe there was a world wide flood with Noah and fam being the only survivors along with the animals on the Ark?
So now you have knowledge of how Gen 1-3 are sufficient for salvation.
Depending on your answers to my second point questions I will explain the saving power of Genesis.
I believe what Jesus says, and you reject it. One of us has a lack of faith, but I don't think it's me.I will say one thing for you or about you. You are consistent in your lack of faith.
I accept it as it is, without your modern revisions.You do not believe in God's creation described in The Bible
I'm just showing you what Jesus says about what will decide your eternal home. I believe Him. I wish you would.you do not believe in God's way to receive His free gift of Eternal Life.
it's really sad that it's becoming rare to find Christians that actually take the Bible at face value for what it says.And I see that in this defense of your post you leave out the accusation you made one sentence earlier.
You do not see how you are being dismissive of the other side of the argument?
What is your proof texts that God does not care if you believe His words or not?
It would appear that the bulk of Matt 25 is that we are to be held accountable for what we know/do/have been given.
So you have been given the creation account in Genesis 1 and you have discarded it.
Replacing the words of God with your "better" understanding because you have higher knowledge.
Matt 25 would say that you will be held accountable for why you reinterpret God's words to diminish His power and ability.
How do you know its supposed to be taken at face value, though?it's really sad that it's becoming rare to find Christians that actually take the Bible at face value for what it says.
"And on the 5th day God created..."How do you know its supposed to be taken at face value, though?
take something at face value
- to accept something as it appears to be rather than studying it more closely
take something at face value
1. to accept something as it appears to be rather than studying it more…dictionary.cambridge.org
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?