...Do you even believe in Evolution in the first palce?

[Archaeopteryx]

The Day of Naturalism. It is when "eyes" become opened and truth about our natural world and our existence accurately apprehended.

Nice try. The spiritual realm you have yet to detect and apprehend is more real than the natural so many are caught up in through the common 5 senses.

As far as chaotic and closing ones eyes and ears: God is in control of every detail, including your freewill and drive through Naturalism. When was God not around? Where was He not at any moment and place in time? Chaotic? To those blind to the Kingdom in our midst.

The world is not astonishing through the eyes of Naturalism. They do not see what they need to see and the reason they are here. When a person misses God in this life they have walked the road of failure and blindness. The Day of the Naturalist can be obtained, but in exchange for what in comparison?

I resent that comment. What you are saying, in essence, is that I am not able to apprehend beauty or see a point to things unless I believe I was specially created by some deity. My experience of the world is not impoverished because I don't share your theism.

 

[Heissonear]

I resent that comment. What you are saying, in essence, is that I am not able to apprehend beauty or see a point to things unless I believe I was specially created by some deity. My experience of the world is not impoverished because I don't share your theism.

When something is more than half missing I call such apprehension lacking substantially. Particularly in view of the Creator's obvious attributes. Try to see the farthest galaxies and all the items along the way. And the dimension of God's understanding about us exceeds that!

 

[AV1611VET]

Didn't Jesus, as God, already have the whole world? How can he decline what he already has?

He has it by virtue of the fact that He created it; but here's how the line goes:

1. God created it.
2. He turned it over to Adam.
3. Adam gave it to Satan.
4. Satan offered it to Jesus, Who declined it.
5. Jesus will soon reclaim it (by force).
6. Jesus will turn it over to the Father.
7. It will be destroyed and remade.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

So should we base our existence on your knowledge, or should we presume that there are things you don't know?

Q. If God created all living things as newborn babies, how many of them would survive.
A. Very few.

Most babies need an adult mother to help them survive until they can fend for themselves. Man is no exception. If you've ever looked around, you might have noticed that the world is populated by adults and children who are becomming adults. The role of children is to grow into adults. The role of adults is to raise their families and serve God.

A simple reading of Genesis will reveal that everything God created was in its mature state, including trees bearing fruit and not seedlings in the dirt. Maturity, then, was part of the design. Adam was a mature adult, the animals were created in their maturiy, the trees were created in their maturity and the planet was created in its maturity. To the ignorant, this may seem like God is intending to decieve us. Actually, I think He intends for us to read His Word. The question of the appearance of age is quite easily answered when you read about the creation and all things being created in their mature state. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to comprehend that if everything else was created in its mature state then the Earth was as well.

We constantly read the words of atheists who attempt to put retrictions on a God in whom they do not believe. It's actually quite comedic at times. "If the earth only looks old than your God is a liar." Really? That you aren't smart enough to comprehend His creation is not a possibility? I find the combination of ignorance and pomposity to be an amusing distraction, but not something particularly worthy of a significant time investment.

God created a mature world. Deal with it.

We are attempting to put restrictions of God? Genesis seems to that. It portrays its deity as an incompetent creator who took 6 days to create the world and then needed to rest. What activity could possibly have fatigued a being that is supposedly omnipotent that he would require rest? He then creates human beings without any concept of right or wrong, places forbidden fruit within their reach, and then blames them for inevitably failing his test - a test for which they were set up to fail. The punishment for this transgression is astronomically out of proportion with the crime: not only are Adam and Eve cursed, but the same doom befalls all their descendants, even to the present day. What happened to justice?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

When something is more than half missing I call such apprehension lacking substantially. Particularly in view of the Creator's obvious attributes. Try to see the farthest galaxies and all the items along the way. And the dimension of God's understanding about us exceeds that!

You think I can't see beauty or wonder or goodness in the world without believing in a deity?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

He has it by virtue of the fact that He created it; but here's how the line goes:

1. God created it.
2. He turned it over to Adam.
3. Adam gave it to Satan.
4. Satan offered it to Jesus, Who declined it.
5. Jesus will soon reclaim it (by force).
6. Jesus will turn it over to the Father.
7. It will be destroyed and remade.

Satan offered it to Jesus in exchange for what?

 

[AV1611VET]

We are attempting to put restrictions of God? Genesis seems to that. It portrays its deity as an incompetent creator who took 6 days to create the world and then needed to rest. What activity could possibly have fatigued a being that is supposedly omnipotent that he would require rest? He then creates human beings without any concept of right or wrong, places forbidden fruit within their reach, and then blames them for inevitably failing his test - a test for which they were set up to fail. The punishment for this transgression is astronomically out of proportion with the crime: not only are Adam and Eve cursed, but the same doom befalls all their descendants, even to the present day. What happened to justice?

I have not seen so much error in one post in seven years here.

(That I can recall, anyway.)

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I have not see so much error in one post in seven years here.

Go ahead and point them out.

 

[AV1611VET]

Satan offered it to Jesus in exchange for what?

Worship.

Matthew 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

Worship.

Matthew 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

What is the benefit of being worshipped exactly? Why are Gods (and devils) so keen on it?

 

[AV1611VET]

Go ahead and point them out.

We are attempting to put restrictions of God? Genesis seems to that. It portrays its deity as an incompetent creator who took 6 days to create the world and then needed to rest. What activity could possibly have fatigued a being that is supposedly omnipotent that he would require rest? He then creates human beings without any concept of right or wrong, places forbidden fruit within their reach, and then blames them for inevitably failing his test - a test for which they were set up to fail. The punishment for this transgression is astronomically out of proportion with the crime: not only are Adam and Eve cursed, but the same doom befalls all their descendants, even to the present day. What happened to justice?

1. God took 6 days on purpose, so as to use that as a template for the workweek as stipulated in Exodus 20:11.

2. God rested on the 7th day, not because He was fatigued, but because He was finished. Rested means ceased.

3. Adam & Eve had a concept of right and wrong, else God would not have ordered them to stay away from the forbidden fruit.

4. The forbidden fruit was not for Adam & Eve, it was -- in my opinion -- for Lucifer and the angels and contained manna.

5. They were not being tested; let alone set up to fail. In fact, Lucifer hadn't even rebelled as yet.

6. Had God not made Adam the federal head of the human race, and given us a sin nature; then Jesus would have to come back and die for each and every person born ... but by making Adam the federal head of the human race, Jesus only has to die once for all.

7. Justice gives way to grace & mercy, when it comes to eternal punishment.

• justice = getting what you deserve
• mercy = not getting what you deserve
• grace = getting what you don't deserve

 

[Archaeopteryx]

What is the benefit of being worshipped exactly? Why are Gods (and devils) so keen on it?

What could a supposedly omnipotent being have to gain from being by worshipped?

 

[AV1611VET]

What is the benefit of being worshipped exactly? Why are Gods (and devils) so keen on it?

So you won't place your allegiance where it doesn't belong: like Satan or nature or yourself or...

 

[AV1611VET]

What could a supposedly omnipotent being have to gain from being by worshipped?

Us.

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

6. Had God not made Adam the federal head of the human race, and given us a sin nature; then Jesus would have to come back and die for each and every person born ... but by making Adam the federal head of the human race, Jesus only has to die once for all.

So, when Jesus "died" for us, whose forgiveness was He seeking?

 

[Mr Strawberry]

wrong post

 

[Archaeopteryx]

1. God took 6 days on purpose, so as to use that as a template for the workweek as stipulated in Exodus 20:11.

Or the authors of Exodus 20:11 also happened to be the authors of Genesis?

2. God rested on the 7th day, not because He was fatigued, but because He was finished. Rested means ceased.

Omnipotent, yet it still took 6 working days?

3. Adam & Eve had a concept of right and wrong, else God would not have ordered them to stay away from the forbidden fruit.

The forbidden fruit was on the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. If the name is any give-away, it would seem that forbidden fruit was the source of a concept of right and wrong. The story certainly implies that this is the case, given that Adam and Eve only experienced the shame of their nakedness after having eaten the fruit.

4. The forbidden fruit was not for Adam & Eve, it was -- in my opinion -- for Lucifer and the angels and contained manna.

In your opinion? Genesis makes no mention of who the fruit was for.

5. They were not being tested; let alone set up to fail. In fact, Lucifer hadn't even rebelled as yet.

I don't even recall Lucifer being mentioned in the account.

6. Had God not made Adam the federal head of the human race, and given us a sin nature; then Jesus would have to come back and die for each and every person born ... but by making Adam the federal head of the human race, Jesus only has to die once for all.

Or the entire situation could have been avoided if he hadn't placed the Tree within the reach of people that he knew would partake of it.

7. Justice gives way to grace & mercy, when it comes to eternal punishment.

• justice = getting what you deserve
• mercy = not getting what you deserve
• grace = getting what you don't deserve

Adam and Eve were not at fault in the story. They were created without any knowledge of good and evil and then punished for acquiring that knowledge.

 

[AV1611VET]

So, when Jesus "died" for us, whose forgiveness was He seeking?

No one's.

Jesus was born of a virgin, and thus bypassed having a sin nature.

Else He, too, would be in need of a Saviour.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

So you won't place your allegiance where it doesn't belong: like Satan or nature or yourself or...

What allegiance? Satan doesn't exist; we are a part of nature, you can't avoid that, it's a healthy thing; and I see more self-love in creationists than any other group I've ever come across. So what is this allegiance you are talking about?

 

[AV1611VET]

Adam and Eve were not at fault in the story. They were created without any knowledge of good and evil and then punished for acquiring that knowledge.

Suit yourself ... you have as much freewill as I do to believe what you want to believe.