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Do you belong to a CULT?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by edpobre, Oct 16, 2002.

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  1. Gunny

    Gunny Remnant Supporter

    +88
    Christian
    Married






    Alpha and Omega


    The Trinity: The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit


    Is the Creedal Doctrine of Trinity Biblical


    A brief declaration and vindication of the Trinity


    The following links provide information regarding Iglesia ni Cristo, it's founder, their doctrine, who they state Jesus is?, what Salvation is according to their man-made doctrinal beliefs, the control they adminster to it's members, their deceptive practices, and the claims of the founder, Felix Manalo and his belief that he is spoken of in scripture as a messenger of God/The 5th angel.

    There is a considerable amount of data that has been gathered on Iglesia ni Cristo, much of it from their own publications and former members.

    I believe it is well worth the time reading over the information regarding Iglesia ni Cristo, indeed.


    Examine Iglesia ni Cristi

    http://members.tripod.com/insiders_inc/

    http://www.gospelcom.net/apologeticsindex/i00.html

    http://www.letusreason.org/igleidir.htm

    http://members.tripod.com/~janchung/table_of_contents.html

    http://members.tripod.com/~janchung/false_messenger.html

    http://members.tripod.com/xcrusaders/angeleast.html

    http://www.adeptsys.com/chrysalis/Pages/info/iglesia.html

    http://www.nossumus.net/iglesyanikristo/lesson11.html

    http://www.examineiglesianicristo.com/honesty4.html

    http://thebereans.net/qa-realname.shtml
     
  2. SunnyLin

    SunnyLin taking the mission home.

    106
    +1
    "It also claims to be the reestablishment of the first century Church of Christ that fell by way of apostasy — by means of God's last messenger, Felix Y. Manalo:

    "The Church of Christ which was apostatized after the first century was restored to its pristine purity by God by means of His last messenger, brother Felix Y. Manalo..."

    this is in everyway the same conceptual religion as muslim!

    "Consequently, only Iglesia ni Cristo ministers can be considered God's messengers"
    It is through the preaching function of God's messengers that God calls people to be gathered in one body or in the Church of Christ. This is why members of the Iglesia ni Cristo uphold the words of God preached by His messenger in these last days, Brother Felix Y. Manalo. He and the other ministers and workers of the Church are the ones whom God sent in these last days, as attested to by the fulfillment of God's prophecy, to preach the gospel..."

    if this were really true, it would be contradicting everything the bible says about preaching and spreading His message. God uses everyone, not just "Iglesia ni Cristo ministers"! for example, God used Mary the prostitute to spread his word, God also used many people who were not ministers. God uses bears and bones and trees and beggars and wealthy tax collectors... how can this church really believe in these concepts while at the same time claiming to convey the message of God?
     
  3. SunnyLin

    SunnyLin taking the mission home.

    106
    +1
    "The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
    : religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader"

    Jesus is not an authoritarian, charismatic leader. Jesus does not have us living in an unconventional manner.
     
  4. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +37
    SunnyLin,

    I'm glad you agree that at least, God USES someone to spread or deliver His message. What you are saying is, God USES messengers to deliver His messages, right?

    You are, however, mistaken in your belief that "God USES everyone." NOT everyone is a messenger of God. God CHOOSES His messengers. He ALSO provides them CREDENTIALS to show rto people that they are TRULY His MESSENGERS.

    John the Baptist had CREDENTIALS to show. Apostle Paul had CREDENTIALS to show. And Jesus also had CREDENTIALS to show. They all HAD the Spirit of Prophecy (Rev. 19:10).

    Bro. Felix Manalo HAS also the Spirit of Prophecy that testifies to his being SENT by God. 

    As apostle Paul said: "How can they preach UNLESS they are SENT" (Rom. 10:15)?

    People who HEARD Jesus and BELIEVED also spread the message just as those who HEARD the gospel of Christ THROUGH the PREACHING function of God's LAST messenger, Bro. Felix Manalo, ALSO spread God's messages.

    Ed

     
     
  5. SunnyLin

    SunnyLin taking the mission home.

    106
    +1
    i dont literally mean everybody but isee what you are getting at and i agree. what i dont agree with is that Manalo believes that he is specially sent by God as the last messenger, ie prophet; just like mohammad in the muslim religion. to me, Jesus is the last messenger, the final messenger. His message of love is our last chance to accept God.
     
  6. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +37
    SunnyLin,

    This is what God WANTS His people to do:
    Members of the INC are God's chosen people (1 Peter 2:9). That's why they OBEY God's COMMANDS.

    We OBEY the Administration and are SUBMISSIVE because it is God's COMMAND. In doing so, we HAVE fellowship with them and ALSO with God and Jesus Christ (1 John 1:3).

    Ed

     
     
  7. SunnyLin

    SunnyLin taking the mission home.

    106
    +1
    God does designate certain people to be leaders and others to be followers as part of one body, again i completely agree with u on that, but to claim that someone is the absolute LAST, that God will not "send" anymore "chosen people" that is what i can not agree with. Its the same claim that muhammed makes. HE is the last prophet. these kind of statements seem to glorify the messenger, not the God. How do you go around claiming that you are THE last hope for salvation and it is the end of the world? I believe Jesus is the only person who can make that statement, and in all his humbleness, he didnt.
     
  8. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +37
    John the Baptist was the one and only messenger SENT to make the way for Jesus. Apostle Paul was the LAST messenger SENT by God to preach to the Gentiles. Jesus was the one and only messenger SENT by God to be the Messiah.  

    Bro. Felix Manalo is the LAST messenger SENT by God to re-establish the fold or flock or church as PROPHESIED by Jesus in John 10:16.

    Until someone comes along with CREDENTIALS (prophetic words of God)  testifying that he is a messenger SENT by God, OTHER than Bro. Manalo, we RECEIVE him, and because we RECEIVE him, we RECEIVE Jesus and we ALSO receive God who SENT him (Matt. 10:40).

    Ed
     
  9. SunnyLin

    SunnyLin taking the mission home.

    106
    +1
    none of the holy prophets in the bible claimed to be the last of anything. they didnt run around the world and create a denomination for themselves nor did they make a 45 page website for the sole purpose of raising their "cause". Paul, John, and Jesus were all sent by God and they all did their jobs, but they did not make themselves the leader of anything. They taught, they did not intentionally create a division among God's people with them as the leader. Bro. Manalo may be a holy man, but i do not believe he or anyone deserves to be the leader of a large group of people. teh only leader in teh church should be Jesus and God. if you need Manalo to speak with God, why did Jesus die for us? Just by saying that you "receive" him, you are implying that he is raised and above, just like Jesus. How can you raise a human being like that -to exault a human, even if he is holy? To make him the leader of your religious life? By making a person the leader of a denomniation is to exhault him and isnt God and Jesus the only person deserving of being exhaulted?
     
  10. Gunny

    Gunny Remnant Supporter

    +88
    Christian
    Married






    Alpha and Omega


    The Trinity: The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit


    Is the Creedal Doctrine of Trinity Biblical


    A brief declaration and vindication of the Trinity


    The following links provide information regarding Iglesia ni Cristo, it's founder, their doctrine, who they state Jesus is?, what Salvation is according to their man-made doctrinal beliefs, the control they adminster to it's members, their deceptive practices, and the claims of the founder, Felix Manalo and his belief that he is spoken of in scripture as a messenger of God/The 5th angel.

    There is a considerable amount of data that has been gathered on Iglesia ni Cristo, much of it from their own publications and former members.

    I believe it is well worth the time reading over the information regarding Iglesia ni Cristo, indeed.


    Examine Iglesia ni Cristi

    http://members.tripod.com/insiders_inc/

    http://www.gospelcom.net/apologeticsindex/i00.html

    http://www.letusreason.org/igleidir.htm

    http://members.tripod.com/~janchung/table_of_contents.html

    http://members.tripod.com/~janchung/false_messenger.html

    http://members.tripod.com/xcrusaders/angeleast.html

    http://www.adeptsys.com/chrysalis/Pages/info/iglesia.html

    http://www.nossumus.net/iglesyanikristo/lesson11.html

    http://www.examineiglesianicristo.com/honesty4.html

    http://thebereans.net/qa-realname.shtml
     
  11. SunnyLin

    SunnyLin taking the mission home.

    106
    +1
    hrm, is this a thread to discuss cults or is this a thread to soap box and flood the forum with the same long message over and over again?
     
  12. Gunny

    Gunny Remnant Supporter

    +88
    Christian
    Married
    It is my contention that it is a forum for Cultists to promote and encourage their extra-biblical doctrines.
     
  13. SunnyLin

    SunnyLin taking the mission home.

    106
    +1
    then why am i getting the smae post over and over again?
     
  14. franklin

    franklin Sexed up atheism = Pantheism

    +218
    Atheist
    Private
    Sarge,  If you believe the scripture is true, then you must subordinate all other sources to second place and that includes Orthodox theological doctrine! So, if Orthodoxy seems to contradict Scripture, then it must be Orthodoxy that is wrong. Just because it's orthodoxy doesn't mean it's biblical!  I think you and your trinitarian followers need to make up your minds as to who you are going to serve.... God's word or the Orthodox traditional beliefs of men!    
     
  15. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +37


    None of the holy prophets claimed to be the last simply because they knew they were not the last. The first-century Iglesia Ni Cristo (church of Christ) were scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria (Acts 8:1) and went everywhere PREACHING the gospel (Acts 8:4), ADDING to the church those who BELIEVED and were BAPTIZED (Acts 2:38-41, 47).  

    God placed apostles, ministers, teachers, administration in the church (1 Cor. 12:28). God placed Bro. Felix Manalo, His LAST mesenger as the CHURCH'S first Executive Minister in order to PRESERVE the UNITY of the CHURCH in everything, especially her DOCTRINES.

    Thus, the 21st-century Iglesia Ni Cristo, LIKE the first-century Iglesia Ni Cristo (Church of Christ) is ONE body, ONE spirit, ONE faith, ONE baptism, ONE God, the Father, and ONE Lord, Jesus Christ (Eph. 4:4-6).

    RECEIVING a messenger of Jesus is also RECEIVING Jesus and RECEIVING Jesus is also RECEIVING God (Matthew 10:40; Luke 10:16). We BELIEVE that Bro. Felix Manalo is God's MESSENGER. Thus, receiving him is TANTAMOUNT to receiving Jesus and God.

    Ed
     
  16. Gunny

    Gunny Remnant Supporter

    +88
    Christian
    Married
    By Felix, ye are saved, right, Ed. By INC, ye are saved, right. With you, the Mormons, LDS, JW, etc... Jesus can't be God for you have reduced Him to a level that places Him on the same plane, in your case, with Felix Manalo.

    I tell you this, I would trust Felix the cat (American cartoon my sons used to watch) more than Manalo, who states he is written about in the Bible, as God's last messenger.

    Amazing, the brainwashing that takes place in cults started by men that desire to be in reality equal to God, sort of like SATAN.
     
  17. Gunny

    Gunny Remnant Supporter

    +88
    Christian
    Married

    So who is your cult leader, Franklin? Ed's is Felix Manalo. Men that want to be glorified, as God. Jesus isn't God according to you gents so basically you or Ed could have paid sin's penalty on the cross, right?

    Please don't tell me a mere man did that, I don't buy it and any Christian born again of God's Spirit doesn't buy it.

    You take away Christ's diety, what are you left with, a man specially empowered from God for awhile. An angel, a prophet, a good teacher.

    The Bible speaks of Jesus being worshiped, God says only He is to be worshiped, period.

    I truly fear for you gents, you don't undestand that you are reducing Jesus-The I AM, to a mere man. After one sifts through the same old proof texts utilized by Christian cults, that's all you allow Jesus, King of Kings and Lord of Lords to be is just a man.

    Very sad, for such followers of this lie from the Devil.
     
  18. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +37
    Iglesia Ni Cristo members are saved by grace THROUGH faith in Christ gunnysgt.  Iglesia Ni Cristo members are the TRUE believers in Jesus. They are those who believe that Jesus is a MAN because Jesus himself SAID it (John 8:40). They are those who believe that the Father alone is the ONLY true God because Jesus himself SAID it (John 17:3).

    We believe that the Iglesia Ni Cristo is the church that Christ BUILT (Matt. 16:18). We believe that the Iglesia Ni Cristo is the church that Christ PURCHASED with his own blood (Acts 20:28). We believe that the Iglesia Ni Cristo is the church that Christ LOVED so much that he GAVE his life for it (Eph. 5:25). We believe that Christ is the SAVIOR of the CHURCH (Eph. 5:23). We believe that CHURCH is none other than the IGLESIA NI CRISTO.

    We THANK Bro, Felix Manalo, God's LAST messenger, for OPENING our eyes to these TRUTHS through his PREACHING of the TRUE gospel of Christ.

    You are free to TRUST anyone or anything you want gunnysgt. That's your prerogative. But you would be a fool to expect others to follow you WITHOUT evaluating the TRUTHFULNESS of Bro. Manalo's COMMISSIONING as God's messenger against the doctrines he PREACHED and the prophecies that TESTIFY for him.

    Bro. Manalo NEVER desired to be equal with God. Everything we do at IGLESIA NI CRISTO is for the HONOR and GLORY of God and of His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Ed
     
  19. Gunny

    Gunny Remnant Supporter

    +88
    Christian
    Married

    Sounds real nice, Ed. INC, only true church, Felix Manalo states he is written about in the Bible.

    INC Salvation=Being a member of INC + Buying into all that Felix Manlo states about himself(being written about in the Bible-being God's last messenger )+Starting the only church whose members will be saved which was started in the Phillipines + Jesus's subsitutionary death on the cross( According to INC, JW's, LDS, Mormon's, World Wide Church of God[Armstrong's cult]) a mere man, prophet, or angel was able to take on all the sins of man-though just a man****And yes-each one of these true religions and/or churches state they are the only true church****So, put all these things together and outcome according to INC, JW's, LDS, etc... and you have a WORKS BASED SALVATION.

    Not Grace(Jesus Christ) alone, by faith and that a gift of God so no man should boast.

    No, not with INC, JW's, LDS, etc...



    THAT NO MAN SHOULD BOAST.

    These messengers, prophets, angels whatever they choose to call themselves make such mockery of a Holy God.

    Jesus just couldn't get the job at Calvary done by Himself. He doesn't have the power to save by His death and resurrection by His finished work. Nope, he has to have a man, or I should say men, because so many have made these claims through the years, these special men that God had to to go outside of His Word to start the true Body of Christ or the Only true church,etc.... ad in finitum.


    God does not or will not share, His Glory, with no man.

    These men that make these claims"I am the true messenger, prophet, angel, etc...." "I have the Only Real Truth, The Only True Church", And Once again making the claim directly or indirectly, Salvation= The Founder, His True Church, His True Doctrine, and Oh Yes, Jesus the man=Salvation.

    God is not a God of confusion and He will not be mocked, nor shall He share His Glory, with these self-appointed MESSENGERS, PROPHETS, ETC... THAT CLAIM TO HAVE THE TRUE KNOWLEDGE THAT WILL SAVE.


    II PETER 2:1
    1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

    II PETER 2:2
    2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

    II PETER 2:3
    3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.


    I say you better tell your GOD APPOINTED LAST MESSENGERS, LAST PROPHETS, ETC..... That they should be paying serious attention to SCRIPTURE SPEAKING OF THAT WHICH THEY ARE ENGAGING IN.

    Father God, I pray for these men, for I know they are zealous, I also know that they have followed after men that make false claims about themselves, about you Lord and these religions that they start. I know Lord that you are not a God of confusion and that you do not want any man to perish. Father God, I pray that somehow, someway, you might open the eyes of the men and women that have fallen prey to these individuals that have embarked on these religions that are counterfeit in nature. Lord, we know your Word states that Satan disguises as an angel of light seeking to blind, deceive and destroy. God, I pray in the name of Jesus Christ, that these captive minds, hearts and spirits might be set free by the shed Blood of Jesus Christ, for there is Power in the Blood!!!. Amen.
     
  20. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +37
    Thank you for praying for me gunnysgt. But God will NOT hear  you BECAUSE your sins have NOT been forgiven. 

    You have NOT been translated into the kingdom of Christ (IGLESIA NI CRISTO) IN WHOM there is REDEMPTION through Christ's blood, the FORGIVENESS of sins (Col. 1:13-14). Hence, your sins have NOT been forgiven.

    God says: "But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your SINS have hid his face from you, that he will NOT hear" (Isaiah 59:2).

    BTW, I thought you believe that God is in THREE co-equal 'persons' of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. How come you are praying to "Father God" alone. Don't God the Son and God the Holy Spirit have any SAY as far as prayers are concerned? Aren't they all co-equal with one another as Trinitarians teach?

    Ed
     
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