Do Sabbath Keepers KEEP the Sabbath?

[Saint Steven]

Just to be clear, you do NOT believe Jesus came to free us from sin? Only the law?

Both and more.

 

[1stcenturylady]

It should.

Romans 10:4 KJV
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Romans 10:4 NIV
Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

So you want to change what it says?

 

[1stcenturylady]

Both and more.

How much of sin does Jesus free us from?

 

[mmksparbud]

The subject is seed. Don't you know that Abraham's seed was Jesus?

Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ. Galatians 3:16

However, God's people were the Jews. Some did not accept their Messiah and were cut off making way for Gentiles. Romans 11. Now Gentiles and Jews who accept their Messiah are one new man.

Ephesians 2:
11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

Yah--I know--do you think that God did not want anyone but the Jews to know this?? All the ceremonial laws pointed to Jesus---they were no longer needed at the cross. It is blindingly obvious.

 

[Saint Steven]

The seed of the Father is the Spirit of Grace. Now read 1 John 3:9.

But even you admit that there are sins we commit unknowingly.
You say we are not held accountable, but I say they are still sin. That's my point.

1 John 3:9
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Yah--I know--do you think that God did not want anyone but the Jews to know this?? All the ceremonial laws pointed to Jesus---they were no longer needed at the cross. It is blindingly obvious.

We were talking about the seed. What does that have to do with the ceremonial laws? Don't you know that the whole law came because of transgressions UNTIL Christ came. What did Christ do to make the law no longer necessary?

 

[Saint Steven]

How much of sin does Jesus free us from?

How can such things be measured?

We are living in a fallen world. We are not free from that.
There are sins we commit unknowingly. There is a difference between sin and sins.

Ultimately, one can only be set free from that which binds them.
This brings it down to a personal level. But you are asking about a global or universal/eternal situation. Who can say?

The Bible gives us instructions about how to manage our fallen nature. (the flesh)
The Apostle Paul relates how he struggles with this. You claim he is talking about someone else. (claiming that the Bible doesn't mean what it plainly says)

 

[1stcenturylady]

But even you admit that there are sins we commit unknowingly.
You say we are not held accountable, but I say they are still sin. That's my point.

1 John 3:9
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

Yes, I agree. 1 John 3:9 is about willful sins of lawlessness, not trespasses unwittingly committed. 1 John 1:7 shows us that even while we are walking in the light our sins are being cleansed. What kind of sin could we commit while walking in the Spirit? Does the Spirit lead us to kill someone or hate someone? No. But we can hurt someone's feelings without knowing it. Those are trespasses that we have to forgive each other. They are not against God, they are against each other. If we do not forgive each other, God will not forgive us of those "sins." Trespasses are sins, but not unto death. They are sins not unto death. 1 John 5:16-17. It all has to do with knowledge and intention. That is the heart.

 

[1stcenturylady]

How can such things be measured?

We are living in a fallen world. We are not free from that.
There are sins we commit unknowingly. There is a difference between sin and sins.

Ultimately, one can only be set free from that which binds them.
This brings it down to a personal level. But you are asking about a global or universal/eternal situation. Who can say?

The Bible gives us instructions about how to manage our fallen nature. (the flesh)
The Apostle Paul relates how he struggles with this. You claim he is talking about someone else. (claiming that the Bible doesn't mean what it plainly says)

Wrong. We are in the world, but not of the world.

Paul knew all too well what it was like as a Pharisee, knowing the law, but struggling. Can't you see the context of Romans 7 ends with Christ being the answer??? That is what it plainly says.

 

[Saint Steven]

Yes, I agree. 1 John 3:9 is about willful sins of lawlessness, not trespasses unwittingly committed. 1 John 1:7 shows us that even while we are walking in the light our sins are being cleansed. What kind of sin could we commit while walking in the Spirit? Does the Spirit lead us to kill someone or hate someone? No. But we can hurt someone's feelings without knowing it. Those are trespasses that we have to forgive each other. They are not against God, they are against each other. If we do not forgive each other, God will not forgive us of those "sins." Trespasses are sins, but not unto death. They are sins not unto death. 1 John 5:16-17. It all has to do with knowledge and intention. That is the heart.

Right, "Trespasses are sins", that's what I am saying. Sinless therefore would include trespasses. (and sinning unknowingly) Sin is sin and the law is the law. All bad. No way to get around it. Saved by grace, or not saved at all.

 

[Saint Steven]

Can't you see the context of Romans 7 ends with Christ being the answer??? That is what it plainly says.

I see that just fine.
But it doesn't mean that our old fallen nature (the flesh) has been replaced with a "new" nature. (as you claim)

 

[1stcenturylady]

I see that just fine.
But it doesn't mean that our old fallen nature (the flesh) has been replaced with a "new" nature. (as you claim)

Romans 8 says that. I just happen to believe the Word. The "flesh" is our carnal nature, and we are NOT IN THE FLESH, but in the Spirit, if we have been born again of the Spirit.

 

[mmksparbud]

We were talking about the seed. What does that have to do with the ceremonial laws? Don't you know that the whole law came because of transgressions UNTIL Christ came. What did Christ do to make the law no longer necessary?

The ceremonial laws--the laws involving sacrifices were no longer needed---Jesus was the Sacrificial Lamb---when He died, those laws were no longer needed as He is now presenting His shed blood for our sins. The 10 are still binding. But they do not save, they point to sin, as a mirror, but can not remove them--only the blood of Jesus can do that.

 

[Saint Steven]

I just happen to believe the Word.

Like when you claim it doesn't mean what it plainly says?

 

[Saint Steven]

Romans 8 says that.

It infers that living according to the flesh is an option (not an obligation) for believers.

Which means we have an old sin nature. Otherwise it wouldn't be an option. We have an obligation to live according to the Spirit instead. To exercise our option not to live according to the flesh, our fallen nature which we still have.

Romans 8:12
Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it.

 

[1stcenturylady]

The ceremonial laws--the laws involving sacrifices were no longer needed---Jesus was the Sacrificial Lamb---when He died, those laws were no longer needed as He is now presenting His shed blood for our sins. The 10 are still binding. But they do not save, they point to sin, as a mirror, but can not remove them--only the blood of Jesus can do that.

Yes, the ceremonial laws are fulfilled. However, is that why Jesus came? To take care of the ceremonial laws? Or was there a bigger issue Jesus took care of?

 

[1stcenturylady]

Like when you claim it doesn't mean what it plainly says?

You know I do, but you have misapplied it to yourself, when I should hope by now you have the Spirit and it no longer applies to you.

 

[1stcenturylady]

It infers that living according to the flesh is an option (not an obligation) for believers.

Which means we have an old sin nature. Otherwise it wouldn't be an option. We have an obligation to live according to the Spirit instead. To exercise our option not to live according to the flesh, our fallen nature which we still have.

Romans 8:12
Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it.

Living according to the flesh is NOT an option for anyone who wants to inherit the kingdom of God.

Is that all you want? Be thought of as a Christian in this life, but burn in hell in the end?

 

[mmksparbud]

Yes, the ceremonial laws are fulfilled. However, is that why Jesus came? To take care of the ceremonial laws? Or was there a bigger issue Jesus took care of?

Umm---He came to be the sacrificial Lamb!! He had to die in order for us to be cleansed---that is what all those animal sacrifices pointed to---to show us that we, too, can overcome---what do you think He came for?

 

[1stcenturylady]

Umm---He came to be the sacrificial Lamb!! He had to die in order for us to be cleansed---that is what all those animal sacrifices pointed to---to show us that we, too, can overcome---what do you think He came for?

He came because of SIN, that started with Adam, not to save animals used for sacrifice. But to save US.

To give us His Spirit so that we have the power to no longer sin. That is why God gave us His law to guard us UNTIL Christ came. The law couldn't stop us from sinning because of the sin nature left in us. Jesus came to take away the one thing that was constantly spewing out sin - the sin nature. That is the whole purpose of His telling us we must be born again of the Spirit! To remove the heart of stone (the old nature) and replace it with a soft heart. We must be born again of the SPIRIT. 1 John 3:5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.

Read the prophecy of Daniel on why the Messiah was coming.

To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,

Look! No more sacrifices, and no more law pointing out sin that isn't being committed! Why? HIS SPIRIT. The Spirit is the seed of the Father. 1 John 3:9 says "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

What Jesus did for us is bigger than you have been led to believe, and most people understand.