Do Sabbath Keepers KEEP the Sabbath?

[1stcenturylady]

That's a smoke screen and the expected belittling insult.

The question I posted.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Can you support that gospel with scripture? Seems like "another" gospel to me.

I imagine it is another gospel from what you believe. It is the truth.

 

[Saint Steven]

I imagine it is another gospel from what you believe. It is the truth.

It must be in your imagination, you have still failed to give biblical evidence.

 

[1stcenturylady]

It must be in your imagination, you have still failed to give biblical evidence.

I have. I can't help it if you don't understand. Why, is beyond me. You are just playing games now, and it is childish.

 

[Saint Steven]

I have. I can't help it if you don't understand. Why, is beyond me. You are just playing games now, and it is childish.

No, you have still failed to give biblical evidence.
The challenge is to show biblical evidence of your claim that God has replaced our old nature (the flesh) with a "new nature". (a sinless nature)

There is certainly plenty of biblical instruction as to how we are to live with this old nature (the flesh) that we have. Why would this be so if we didn't have our old nature to contend with?

Galatians 5:16-17
So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.

Romans 13:13-14
Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. 14 Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the flesh.

Romans 8:5
Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.

 

[1stcenturylady]

No, you have still failed to give biblical evidence.
The challenge is to show biblical evidence of your claim that God has replaced our old nature (the flesh) with a "new nature". (a sinless nature)

There is certainly plenty of biblical instruction as to how we are to live with this old nature (the flesh) that we have. Why would this be so if we didn't have our old nature to contend with?

Galatians 5:16-17
So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.

Romans 13:13-14
Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. 14 Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the flesh.

Romans 8:5
Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.

To understand Galatians 5 about the flesh and that those in the flesh will not inherit the Kingdom of God and how that affects us, study Romans 6. First a statement is made, a fact, that we are dead to sin. Then further in 6 Paul says we must also reckon ourselves dead to sin. Not only is it a fact, you must act on it. Those who go back to the flesh and again become sins slave will be damned. The wages of sin is death. Peter says, for them it would be better had they never been born.

 

[Saint Steven]

To understand Galatians 5 about the flesh and that those in the flesh will not inherit the Kingdom of God and how that affects us, study Romans 6. First a statement is made, a fact, that we are dead to sin. Then further in 6 Paul says we must also reckon ourselves dead to sin. Not only is it a fact, you must act on it. Those who go back to the flesh and again become sins slave will be damned. The wages of sin is death. Peter says, for them it would be better had they never been born.

You just condemned the Apostle Paul to hell. Good work.
I know, I know... Now you will tell us that the Bible doesn't mean what it plainly says.

Romans 7:14-20
We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

 

[1stcenturylady]

You just condemned the Apostle Paul to hell. Good work.
I know, I know... Now you will tell us that the Bible doesn't mean what it plainly says.

Romans 7:14-20
We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

No I didn't. I know the truth.

But you say Paul preaches that everyone in Christ is dead to sin, EXCEPT HIM because Paul claims that person in Romans 7 is about him presently, and not in the past. No, he is not saying that he still is NOT in Christ therefore still under the law as the man in Romans 7. But you say you DO sin but are NOT under the law. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Saint Steven]

No I didn't. I know the truth.

But you say Paul preaches that everyone in Christ is dead to sin, EXCEPT HIM because Paul claims that person in Romans 7 is about him presently, and not in the past. No, he is not saying that he still is NOT in Christ therefore still under the law as the man in Romans 7. But you say you DO sin but are NOT under the law. You can't have it both ways.

There's another definition we don't agree on. "Under the law"
I suppose you claim it means, under "THE CONDEMNATION" of the law. (an unbiblical insertion)

 

[1stcenturylady]

There's another definition we don't agree on. "Under the law"
I suppose you claim it means, under "THE CONDEMNATION" of the law. (an unbiblical insertion)

I would say, under the reason for the law. It is obsolete. What would you say?

I'll read later when I come back in a few hours.

 

[Saint Steven]

I would say, under the reason for the law. It is obsolete. What would you say?

I'll read later when I come back in a few hours.

We probably don't even agree on the definition of the term "the law".

I say "the law" is the law God gave to the Israelites through Moses.
The law that Christ nullified on the cross.

We aren't under the law, we are under grace.
The law was our jailer. We have been set free. Pardoned.

Galatians 3:23-25
Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

 

[Saint Steven]

As gentiles, we were never actually under the law in the first place.
(the law God gave to the Israelites through Moses)

The question arose when gentiles began to enter the Christian church.
In Judaism it was possible to bring gentiles into the synagogue community.
They were put under the law that applied to all Jews.

In reference to not being under the law, this is the "we" being discussed.
Those in the Christian church whether Jew or gentile. Not under the law.

So, when gentiles started to come into the Christian church, the Jews would require the same thing, as if Christianity was an extension of Judaism. This is what Acts chapter fifteen was about. Answering this question. I like this quote from Peter.

Acts 15:10-11
Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

 

[mmksparbud]

The God of the Jews was always the God of everyone. It was never intended for the Jew to be exclusive. They became so, but after leaving Egypt they had a great multitude that followed them. They were to keep the laws just as the Jews in order top be one of them. The Jews were alway7s intended to ber a light to the world---they become exclusive instead.
Gen_22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

 

[1stcenturylady]

We probably don't even agree on the definition of the term "the law".

I say "the law" is the law God gave to the Israelites through Moses.
The law that Christ nullified on the cross.

We aren't under the law, we are under grace.
The law was our jailer. We have been set free. Pardoned.

Galatians 3:23-25
Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

We are on the same page as to what the law in question was. Though you believe it was ALL law, and I believe it was the law given to Moses, you don't seem to know of law outside of the law given to Moses. Are Christians lawless?

Where we differ is from what we are freed from. What did Jesus free us from and why? What was the REASON, which is what I said we are no longer need. Why? How is sin dealt with now that we are not under the law? Scriptures please.

 

[1stcenturylady]

As gentiles, we were never actually under the law in the first place.
(the law God gave to the Israelites through Moses)

The question arose when gentiles began to enter the Christian church.
In Judaism it was possible to bring gentiles into the synagogue community.
They were put under the law that applied to all Jews.

In reference to not being under the law, this is the "we" being discussed.
Those in the Christian church whether Jew or gentile. Not under the law.

So, when gentiles started to come into the Christian church, the Jews would require the same thing, as if Christianity was an extension of Judaism. This is what Acts chapter fifteen was about. Answering this question. I like this quote from Peter.

Acts 15:10-11
Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

What is grace? How does grace affect sin?

 

[1stcenturylady]

Gen_22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

What does thy seed mean to you?

 

[Saint Steven]

Scriptures please.

You are incapable of proving your claims biblically, but you demand it from me.
And you know I can do just that. What's wrong with this picture?

 

[Saint Steven]

We are on the same page as to what the law in question was. Though you believe it was ALL law, and I believe it was the law given to Moses, you don't seem to know of law outside of the law given to Moses. Are Christians lawless?

I have shared my position on the difference between "the law" and what I identify as "God's law". (the law of human conscience)

Romans 2:14-15
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

1 Corinthians 9:21
To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law.

Romans 7:22-25
For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

Romans 8:7
The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.

 

[Saint Steven]

Where we differ is from what we are freed from. What did Jesus free us from and why? What was the REASON, which is what I said we are no longer need. Why? How is sin dealt with now that we are not under the law? Scriptures please.

Set free from the guardianship (imprisonment) of the law, the yoke of slavery to the law.

Galatians 5:1
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

Galatians 3:23-25
Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

 

[Saint Steven]

What is grace? How does grace affect sin?

Grace nullifies sin. It pays the price we owe for it. Christ paid our sin debt. That is grace. It's a free gift. It costs us nothing and we can't buy or earn it. We can't repay it and we can't maintain it. We are the beneficiaries. Like a last will and testament. Paid on the estate.

Ephesians 2:4-5
But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

Titus 3:5
he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

 

[1stcenturylady]

You are incapable of proving your claims biblically, but you demand it from me.
And you know I can do just that. What's wrong with this picture?

You're being childish again. Are you going to take your football and go home?

What are we freed from, specifically.