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Featured Do Sabbath Keepers KEEP the Sabbath?

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by 1stcenturylady, Feb 8, 2019.

  1. Mercy74

    Mercy74 Mercy Messianic Judaism

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    You make so many mistakes. You said that Yeshua was not under the law but above it. Please read Galatians 4:4.
     
  2. Mercy74

    Mercy74 Mercy Messianic Judaism

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    The law says you shall do all your work in 6 days. Has all your work been completed in 6 days? What about the priests? Did the priests make the "shewbread" ready to be eaten inside the temple, yet are INNOCENT? Have you tasted the "shewbread" like David who was not a levitical priest? It is obvious you have not tasted the "bread of life" lest you would become less contentious.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
  3. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Yes, born under the law. But he didn't minister under it.
     
  4. Mercy74

    Mercy74 Mercy Messianic Judaism

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    Yeshua was born under the law; thus he had to adhere to the law. Do you get tired of lieing?
     
  5. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    What does the law that was given to the Israelites alone through Moses have to do with my work? Or yours for that matter. Are you an Israelite? Were you a slave in Egypt?

    Deuteronomy 5:15
    Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.
     
  6. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Posts like that are the express train to an involuntary vacation.
     
  7. Mercy74

    Mercy74 Mercy Messianic Judaism

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    If you violate the law you shall become a slave to sin.
     
  8. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Were you born under the law?
     
  9. Mercy74

    Mercy74 Mercy Messianic Judaism

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    You keep saying things that are not written. You keep falsely accusing Yeshua which I take to be offensive.
     
  10. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Were you a slave in Egypt?

    Deuteronomy 5:15
    Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.
     
  11. Mercy74

    Mercy74 Mercy Messianic Judaism

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    Are you a slave to sin?
     
  12. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Things not written? I have provided lots of scripture to support my views.
     
  13. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    We seem to be at an impasse.
     
  14. Mercy74

    Mercy74 Mercy Messianic Judaism

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    Where is it written that Yeshua was born under law but he didn't minister under it? You made it up to somehow avoid the truth that Yeshua was born under the law. Why don't you allow YHWH to be true (Romans 3:4).
     
  15. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    You seem to have no concerns about bearing false witness.
    I see words filled with hatred. The letter kills.

    John 1:17
    For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
     
  16. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing I can do against those who can not see the love of God. It is the work of easing the suffering of others, it is the work that Jesus did on the Sabbath---He did not go out and cut trees to make things out of in His carpentry shop!! I have used those very same verses many times to point out the work He said He does on the Sabbath! You keep going over and over the same things---you do not want to understand the love of God revealed through the commandments. It is your loss.
     
  17. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    No He did not! BTW, God does not need rest. The Sabbath was made for man. Also the fact you seem to love to ignore, Yeshua's own words...""How much then is a man of more value than a sheep! Wherefore it is lawful to do good on the sabbath day."
     
  18. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    No you twist scripture to support your twisted views...
     
  19. D.A. Wright

    D.A. Wright Once For All-ist Supporter

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    The scripture is good but the commentary is just man-made quasi-logic.

    Sideburns? Jots? Tittles? 613? Refuse to believe? I cannot have it both ways? Do you actually deny that there were moral, civil, and ceremonial laws, distinct from one another, even if there was slight overlap in some cases? Cannot be governed by two covenants at one time? Weren't the heathen nations destroyed and driven out presicely because they would not keep God's Law? Wouldn't that make them obligated just as was Israel?

    Are covenants and laws one and the same or not? (Are you then allowed to "have it both ways?")

    The "old covenant" was so impotent as to not be worthy of the designation, because it was based entirely on the promises of barbarians.

    Sorry; I've been distracted and sidetracked by life, in general, since I was involved in this conversation.

    In John, ch. 15, The Savior makes no mention of or even so much as an allusion to any "old covenant." He does refer, in part, to the Law as expressed in the two great commandments (Deu. 6:5, 10:12 and Lev. 19:18, 34). However, He knows that He is among friends (John 15:14, 15) who will not turn His words back upon Him to justify disobedience, and therefore need not guard His speech as he had to in Matthew 22:37-39, when He was being tempted by the established clergy. And clearly, judging from the location of the scripture from whence it came, "Christ's Law" originated in the age of the "old covenant."

    Discussion of covenants tends to make my head hurt since, these days, I no longer have a single dispensationalist bone in my body. I'm not being facetious, here--I actually am so accustomed to focusing on the everlasting Gospel cited in Rev. 14:6 that I genuinely have trouble wrapping my head around these matters, at times. I grew up mildly influenced by a Baptist atmosphere that was obsessed with a perceived disparity between the Old and New Testaments. King James Version Bibles, with Scofield study notes included, were everywhere.

    I truly believe it is dangerous to hone in on words, such as "law," "sin," "fulfill," "covenant," etc. "Saved" is one we really love to wear the tread off of. I'm gonna stop there before I get in trouble. We strive over such words and terms until we have forgotten the Object of their utility.

    Anyway, I'm not sure what or if you were asking something of me, but if you don't mind restating in the simplest terms you can manage, I'll be more than happy to respond.

    Since this is a very general Christian forum (bordering on pluralist/ecumenical--from a non-derogatory spirit on my part, of course), I can't always assume I know where a participant is coming from, dogmatically speaking. I get a feeling we may be talking about the mystery attached to the pre-advent existence of Christ here, a subject which many are not comfortable discussing at all, since the Bible seems to them to be perhaps cautiously quiet upon. I have no such reservations, being an avid student of the triune Godhead, but I respect and even admire the concerns of those who tread lightly upon the subject.

    As far as covenants and fulfillment are concerned, I have a narrow view. I know the devil loves to invent minors for us to major in. There can be no doubt that there is a fine line between keeping the main thing the main thing and vain repetition. And certainly, God wants us to dig into scripture as for hid treasure. But in the end, the Gospel is best expressed in the simplest of ways:

    But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. (Romans 5:8)

    But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon Him, and with His stripes, we are healed. (Isaiah 53:5)

    I've only been an Adventist for a little over half my life but when it found me, it was an easy sell, because it explained perfectly my bewilderment as to why modern Christendom is so obsessed with justifying sin and ever looking to slip through a crack of a pearly gate somehow. I still don't understand why people want to jettison God's Law so that they don't have to be bothered with just one commandment. Sadly, as the Bible predicted, the other nine are slowly toppling like dominoes. Masterful deception, seems like. A hundred years ago, Christians revered and kept Sunday as the Holy Sabbath day. The wholesale antinomianism that prevails today couldn't be given away with movie tickets. My grandmother literally would not allow anyone to do unnecessary work on her property on Sunday.

    I almost hate to fire this off. I don't condemn anyone, personally, as clichéd as that seems, and often is. It's just not possible to handle truth without ruffling feathers.
     
  20. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Everyone has a right to their opinions. The results of the opinions I have formulated over the last 25 years of the critical study of Adventism's doctrines are what I write.

    All part of the words of the covenant God gave to Israel. Break any one of them was sin. Jews do not group laws so why should I? All of God's laws are moral as related to immoral.

    Well, can we?
    If you are referring to the laws of the Sinai covenant the answer is no, a big no.
    According to Jewish scholars, the Gentile nations were subject to the Noahide laws.

    Would you like to restate that question so that even I can understand what you are trying to ask?

    Oh?? Are you wiser than God? Apparently, God didn't share your views.

    No problem, take your time. We all get caught up in important things. God is patiently waiting on all of us to accept the real truth.

    He did say He kept the Father's commands. Where were the Father's commands located? Actually, the new covenant was formulated as part of the plan of salvation which was formulated before the foundation of the Earth. The plan of salvation is not a seat of pants as you go formulation.

    I would not teach such a thing. Jesus said that He was giving a new command about love. Did He lie to us? I say an emphatic NO! Loving others as I have loved you cannot be found in the Old Testament.

    I would submit to you that if you understood the real facts about the covenants you wouldn't have become a SDA. It was not until I left Adventism that I finally realized I was not grounded in that part of my Christian faith. The laws of the Old Covenant had nothing to do with salvation. The covenant was all about how Israel was to live in the desert and later in the land of Canaan. The Abrahamic covenant was about salvation as well as the New Covenant. Where does the SDA church get the idea that if I do not keep the Sabbath given only to Israel I will not receive my eternal reward? That is ludicrous. The church claims the same thing if I don't pay tithe to the church.

    I don't believe there is any disparity. The old paved the way for the new. It is all part of the plan of salvation. As far as Rev 14 and Adventism's take on the chapter is concerned I believe their take on the verses is entirely wrong. You have been programmed to believe all outside of your church are part of Babylon because we do not hold the Sabbath of the now-defunct Sinai covenant holy we are the beast and the image of the beast. Worshipping God on Sunday makes us somehow Babylon.
    Yes, it is a true shame that your church teaches you to never say you are saved. You cannot believe in the promises like Jn 5:24 and Jn 3:16. SDAs mouth the words of Jude1:24-25, but don't really believe He can keep us from falling.

    Why stop now? You have already made it clear that you denounce certain things. Believe what you will and allow me to use Saved, Sideburns, Jots, Tittles, 613 and Refuse to believe? Those are things you need to focus on and not that the remainder of Christianity are going to miss the boat.

    Then instead of belittling for using words you may not like give us the reason for your beliefs.It seemed to me when I was an Adventist we were focused on nothing but Sabbath, a works-oriented belief system. Everything revolved around Sabbath in place of Jesus.

    You posted your thoughts and I responded. You seem to dislike the terms I used and the fact that we are not under the commands of the Sinai Covenant. You debunked my thoughts by using the term Quasi-logic, but offered little to explain where. This, after all, is a debate forum.

    Wow! a lot there my friend. The subject of the thread is: Do Sabbath Keepers Keep the Sabbath?I digressed as did others. If you are interested in further debate on that issue I would be happy to give you my two cents worth.

    Amen!

    Had Israelites been able to save themselves by keeping the rules of the covenant Jesus would have never had to come to this Earth and become the Sacrifice for Israel and all mankind. The fact is that the Law could only point out their sins. I do not believe Christians are justifying sin. We know we are sinners saved by Grace not by what we do. Perhaps you are dwelling on a false premise or were worshipping with the wrong group.

    The nine have not toppled. They are a part of the command Jesus gave us to love others as He loves us. How much does Jesus love us? He gave up Heaven to come to lost sinners to die so that we might have life eternal as it was supposed to be from the beginning.

    Now I would like to contend to the one commandment that is not considered one of morality and id defined as being ritual. The covenant Jesus came to instill is about love. The covenant the new replaced was about law and duty. I take the writings of Paul with upmost respect as they came from Jesus. If you will read study Jesus words through the writings of Paul we will take verses like 2Cor3:7-11 to heart. Paul writes there that the 10 commandments have been replaced by the Holy Spirit as our guide. The King James version tell us that the 10 commandments have been done away. They were temporary laws he tells us. That should be enough to start you thinking if we are really under the Sabbath law of the Old Covenant. It surely did me. Then I discovered that in 1Jn3:19-24 what laws we are commanded to observe. I pray that this helps you to get a better understanding of all of Chriatianity

    I believe I covered that in a statement above.

    You can never ruffle my feathers friend. I love to discuss what I now believe is the simple truth. God Bless you.



























































































































































































































































































































































































































































































    Discussion of covenants tends to make my head hurt since, these days, I no longer have a single dispensationalist bone in my body. I'm not being facetious, here--I actually am so accustomed to focusing on the everlasting Gospel cited in Rev. 14:6 that I genuinely have trouble wrapping my head around these matters, at times. I grew up mildly influenced by a Baptist atmosphere that was obsessed with a perceived disparity between the Old and New Testaments. King James Version Bibles, with Scofield study notes included, were everywhere.

    I truly believe it is dangerous to hone in on words, such as "law," "sin," "fulfill," "covenant," etc. "Saved" is one we really love to wear the tread off of. I'm gonna stop there before I get in trouble. We strive over such words and terms until we have forgotten the Object of their utility.

    Anyway, I'm not sure what or if you were asking something of me, but if you don't mind restating in the simplest terms you can manage, I'll be more than happy to respond.

    Since this is a very general Christian forum (bordering on pluralist/ecumenical--from a non-derogatory spirit on my part, of course), I can't always assume I know where a participant is coming from, dogmatically speaking. I get a feeling we may be talking about the mystery attached to the pre-advent existence of Christ here, a subject which many are not comfortable discussing at all, since the Bible seems to them to be perhaps cautiously quiet upon. I have no such reservations, being an avid student of the triune Godhead, but I respect and even admire the concerns of those who tread lightly upon the subject.

    As far as covenants and fulfillment are concerned, I have a narrow view. I know the devil loves to invent minors for us to major in. There can be no doubt that there is a fine line between keeping the main thing the main thing and vain repetition. And certainly, God wants us to dig into scripture as for hid treasure. But in the end, the Gospel is best expressed in the simplest of ways:

    But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. (Romans 5:8)

    But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon Him, and with His stripes, we are healed. (Isaiah 53:5)

    I've only been an Adventist for a little over half my life but when it found me, it was an easy sell, because it explained perfectly my bewilderment as to why modern Christendom is so obsessed with justifying sin and ever looking to slip through a crack of a pearly gate somehow. I still don't understand why people want to jettison God's Law so that they don't have to be bothered with just one commandment. Sadly, as the Bible predicted, the other nine are slowly toppling like dominoes. Masterful deception, seems like. A hundred years ago, Christians revered and kept Sunday as the Holy Sabbath day. The wholesale antinomianism that prevails today couldn't be given away with movie tickets. My grandmother literally would not allow anyone to do unnecessary work on her property on Sunday.

    I almost hate to fire this off. I don't condemn anyone, personally, as clichéd as that seems, and often is. It's just not possible to handle truth without ruffling feathers.
     
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