Dinosaurs on the Ark?

[EpiscipalMe]

On what basis do the words of men override the clear word of God?
The creation of man doesn't fit with evolution, so the Bible is wrong?
The Great Flood doesn't fit with evolution so the Bible is wrong?
A human body can't re-animate after being dead for three days and decaying so the Bible is wrong?
Ax heads don't float so the Bible is wrong?
A man can't spend 3 days in the belly of a "great fish" and survive so the Bible is wrong?
Virgins can't conceive so the Bible is wrong?
The Fourth Commandment mentions a six day creation so the Bible is wrong?

What does science say about the existence of the Holy Ghost? Angels? Demons? Other supernatural entities whose existence cannot be physically proven?
Science is the study of the physical world around us. As a field of study it's first rate. As a tool to make our lives better it is unsurpassed. As a god it is lacking. The Creator is lord of the creation. The final authority lies not with natural law but with God's will. Lose sight of that and you will lose your way.

Science is a gift from God. Studying the world around us - the world He created - shows us that Genesis is allegory. God through the Holy Spirit has shown us the evidence that informs interpretation of His Word.

 

[Lily of Valleys]

I see nothing in that quote that makes it "obvious that Paul knew that Adam literally existed." There are two alternatives:
1) Paul knew it was allegory, as did his audience. In referencing this allegorical story, he was able to teach valuable lessons to his audience.
2) Paul thought it was literal, as did his audience. However, with the God given gift of science, we are now free to see Genesis for what I believe it to be - allegory.

Why is it obvious that Paul knew that Adam literally existed? If you read the passage carefully, apostle Paul was trying to explain how sin came into this world. If Adam were simply a fictional character that didn't really exist, how would apostle Paul be able to blame a fictional character to be the one who brought sin to the world?!

Do you think saying through Mickey Mouse sin entered the world make any sense?

• through Mickey Mouse sin entered the world
• But death reigned from Mickey Mouse to Moses
• the pattern of trespass of Mickey Mouse
• by Mickey Mouse's transgression the many died
• result of Mickey Mouse's sinning
• by the transgression of Mickey Mouse, death came to reign through mickey mouse
• through Mickey Mouse's transgression condemnation came upon all
• through the disobedience of Mickey Mouse

Not to mention in verse 14, apostle Paul said death reigned from Adam to Moses, unless you also claim that Moses is a fictional character that didn't exist, and could be referred to as Donald Duck.

_____________________________________________________________________
Therefore, just as through one person sin entered the world, and through sin, death, and thus death came to all, inasmuch as all sinned for up to the time of the law, sin was in the world, though sin is not accounted when there is no law. But death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who did not sin after the pattern of the trespass of Adam, who is the type of the one who was to come.

Grace and Life Through Christ. But the gift is not like the transgression. For if by that one person’s transgression the many died, how much more did the grace of God and the gracious gift of the one person Jesus Christ overflow for the many. And the gift is not like the result of the one person’s sinning. For after one sin there was the judgment that brought condemnation; but the gift, after many transgressions, brought acquittal. For if, by the transgression of one person, death came to reign through that one, how much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of justification come to reign in life through the one person Jesus Christ. In conclusion, just as through one transgression condemnation came upon all, so through one righteous act acquittal and life came to all. For just as through the disobedience of one person the many were made sinners, so through the obedience of one the many will be made righteous. The law entered in so that transgression might increase but, where sin increased, grace overflowed all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through justification for eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

(Romans 5:12-21 NABRE)

 

[EpiscipalMe]

Why is it obvious that Paul knew that Adam literally existed? If you read the passage carefully, apostle Paul was trying to explain how sin came into this world. If Adam were simply a fictional character that didn't really exist, how would apostle Paul be able to blame a fictional character to be the one who brought sin to the world?!

Do you think saying through Mickey Mouse sin entered the world make any sense?

• through Mickey Mouse sin entered the world
• But death reigned from Mickey Mouse to Moses
• the pattern of trespass of Mickey Mouse
• by Mickey Mouse's transgression the many died
• result of Mickey Mouse's sinning
• by the transgression of Mickey Mouse, death came to reign through mickey mouse
• through Mickey Mouse's transgression condemnation came upon all
• through the disobedience of Mickey Mouse

Not to mention in verse 14, apostle Paul said death reigned from Adam to Moses, unless you also claim that Moses is a fictional character that didn't exist, and could be referred to as Donald Duck.

_____________________________________________________________________
Therefore, just as through one person sin entered the world, and through sin, death, and thus death came to all, inasmuch as all sinned for up to the time of the law, sin was in the world, though sin is not accounted when there is no law. But death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who did not sin after the pattern of the trespass of Adam, who is the type of the one who was to come.

Grace and Life Through Christ. But the gift is not like the transgression. For if by that one person’s transgression the many died, how much more did the grace of God and the gracious gift of the one person Jesus Christ overflow for the many. And the gift is not like the result of the one person’s sinning. For after one sin there was the judgment that brought condemnation; but the gift, after many transgressions, brought acquittal. For if, by the transgression of one person, death came to reign through that one, how much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of justification come to reign in life through the one person Jesus Christ. In conclusion, just as through one transgression condemnation came upon all, so through one righteous act acquittal and life came to all. For just as through the disobedience of one person the many were made sinners, so through the obedience of one the many will be made righteous. The law entered in so that transgression might increase but, where sin increased, grace overflowed all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through justification for eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

(Romans 5:12-21 NABRE)

If you want to insert Mickey Mouse, be my guest, but that just sounds silly.

Why does there need to be a person or people to blame for mankind's sin? Why can't we accept that we are sinful and not blame Adam and Eve? Also, I have posted before regarding my thoughts of Paul's referencing Adam in teaching the early Christians.

You ask me why I can't understand your contention that it is literal? I do understand your argument, I just don't agree. On the other hand, literalists get all verklempt at the thought of taking Genesis as allegory.

 

[AV1611VET]

God through the Holy Spirit has shown us the evidence that informs interpretation of His Word.

If all this evidence is around, why do atheists exist?

What is it you see in the earth that atheists do not?

Also, how did we get our moon, according to the Holy Spirit?

 

[AV1611VET]

Why does there need to be a person or people to blame for mankind's sin?

By making Adam the federal head of the human race, Jesus had to only die once for all.

Had God not done that, then Jesus would need to come back and die on the cross for each and every person who committed his first sin.

We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners.

 

[EpiscipalMe]

If all this evidence is around, why do atheists exist?

What is it you see in the earth that atheists do not?

Also, how did we get our moon, according to the Holy Spirit?

I'm not an expert on the moon. However, I am sure scientists have their theories.

And, we have atheists because they do not see the glory of God in nature. I can't explain why.

By making Adam the federal head of the human race, Jesus had to only die once for all.

Had God not done that, then Jesus would need to come back and die on the cross for each and every person who committed his first sin.

We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners.

Respectfully disagree.

Are you setting the rules for God's forgiveness? Are you dictating how many times Jesus must die for us to be saved?

 

[AV1611VET]

Are you setting the rules for God's forgiveness?

Too late. He beat me to it.

Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Are you dictating how many times Jesus must die for us to be saved?

Just educating you.

 

[-57]

I see nothing in that quote that makes it "obvious that Paul knew that Adam literally existed." There are two alternatives:
1) Paul knew it was allegory, as did his audience. In referencing this allegorical story, he was able to teach valuable lessons to his audience.
2) Paul thought it was literal, as did his audience. However, with the God given gift of science, we are now free to see Genesis for what I believe it to be - allegory.

As I've posted before....Paul definitely knew that Adam and Ever were literal and historical.
Here's how we knew....Paul sent a letter to Timothy. The letter instructed women on how to act in church. What did Paul base this instruction on?

2nd Tim 2:13 For Adam was formed first, and then Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman who was deceived and fell into transgression.

Why would Paul impose a rule on the women based upon an allegorical story?

 

[-57]

I contend that the Ten Commandments are real, however, that does not mean that Moses necessarily carried them down from a mountain on stone tablets inscribed by the literal finger of God.

I agree with you!!!! Jesus didn't literally rise from the dead.

 

[Speedwell]

I agree with you!!!! Jesus didn't literally rise from the dead.

For a Christian, you seem singularly eager to find reasons for denying the bodily resurrection of Christ.

 

[-57]

Science is a gift from God. Studying the world around us - the world He created - shows us that Genesis is allegory. God through the Holy Spirit has shown us the evidence that informs interpretation of His Word.

Yes science has shown us a lot. Genesis is an allegory....even science has shown dead people stay dead on day 3.....The resurrection you believe in was also an allegory.

....see how great science is!!!

 

[Speedwell]

As I've posted before....Paul definitely knew that Adam and Ever were literal and historical.
Here's how we knew....Paul sent a letter to Timothy. The letter instructed women on how to act in church. What did Paul base this instruction on?

2nd Tim 2:13 For Adam was formed first, and then Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman who was deceived and fell into transgression.

Why would Paul impose a rule on the women based upon an allegorical story?

Because he believed it to be the authoritative word of God.

 

[-57]

For a Christian, you seem singularly eager to find reasons for denying the bodily resurrection of Christ.

It's your science that you like to use a proof that the Bible is simply a just so allegorical story that says so.

 

[-57]

For a Christian, you seem singularly eager to find reasons for denying the bodily resurrection of Christ.

part 2:
For a christian you eager to deny our sin nature then and the need for Christ.
What can I say???

 

[Speedwell]

It's your science that you like to use a proof that the Bible is simply a just so allegorical story that says so.

No one here is claiming that the Bible is just an allegorical story.

 

[-57]

No one here is claiming that the Bible is just an allegorical story.

You have..in your many post here.

 

[Speedwell]

part 2:
For a christian you eager to deny our sin nature then and the need for Christ.
What can I say???

False. I have never denied our sin nature or our need for Christ.

Perhaps you had better confine yourself to expressing your own views, rather than fabricating views for others.

 

[Speedwell]

You have..in your many post here.

Another falsehood.

 

[-57]

Another falsehood.

Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, Heli, Matthat, Levi, Melki, Jannai, Joseph, Mattathias, Amos, Nahum, Esli, Naggai, Maath, Mattathias, Semein, Josech, Joda, Joanan, Rhesa, Zerubbabel, Shealtiel, Neri, Melki, Addi, Cosam, Elmadam, Er, Joshua, Eliezer, Jorim, Matthat, Levi, Simeon, Judah, Joseph, Jonam, Eliakim, Melea, Menna, Mattatha, Nathan, David, Jesse, Obed, Boaz, Salmon, Nahshon, Amminadab, Ram, Hezron, Perez, Judah, Jacob, Isaac, Abraham, Terah, Nahor, Serug, Reu, Peleg, Eber, Shelah, Cainan, Arphaxad, Shem, Noah, Lamech, Methuselah, Enoch, Jared, Mahalalel, Kenan, Enosh, Seth, Adam, God.

This list of geneologies was taken from the bible....where does it turn form fact to fiction?

 

[-57]

False. I have never denied our sin nature or our need for Christ.

Perhaps you had better confine yourself to expressing your own views, rather than fabricating views for others.

In your numerous post you have.
If you had not denied it...then how did we get a sin nature?