Did we miss our turn somewhere?

[Dave L]

Yes in my decades of study of Eschatology, I have reads the preterist theory and that the papacy is the antichrist. Matter of fact a book I love but disagree with its conclusion is the 2 Babylons by A. Bishop.

The only problem is that these stances accept close enough fulfilment of prophecy to be fulfillment. That is not God! When God says something is to happen it will happen as He declared through the prophets!

Both of these hypotheses fail to have many many many of the prophetic events come to pass, or they allegorize them away to something foolish.

Your starting place is off. You need to begin with Jesus' description of the Kingdom as spiritual, and adjust everything to this.

 

[Dave L]

No it doesn't, I just showed you in detail what it means sir. These translations are problematic my friend, I don't blame people for confusion, words change meanings over time, translations are sometimes wrong going from /Hebrew/Greek to Latin to English.

Try this one brother, Daniel 7:11 says the Beast's body {a man} is destroyed and cast into the burning fire. Whereas Revelation 19:20 says the Beast and False Prophet are CAST ALIVE into hell, this is a seeming contradiction, not a translation problem per se, but its not a contradiction in reality. What is the reason this seems contradictory but isn't ?

In Daniel 8:14 we get 2300 days and in verse 26 {Daniel 8:26} we get Evening and Morning from the exact same Hebrew wording that gave us days. So it's not really 2300 days, its 2300 Evening and Morning sacrifices or 1150 days since you have a Morning sacrifice and Evening sacrifice, as is shown in Daniel 9:21 when Gabriel came to speak unto Daniel at "Evening Oblation/Sacrifice".

It even has the root word EN there with it to tell us its at a future FIXED point in time.

No gap, no Dispensationalism.

 

[Revealing Times]

No gap, no Dispensationalism.

Israel was Dead for nigh 2000 years, from 70 AD {or sooner in reality} until 1948, go read Ezekiel 37. The Valley of Dry Bones prophecy explains it all. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean God didn't plan it that way brother.

Rev. 1 Jesus as seen in all his Glory. {The things you have seen}

Rev. 2 the Seven Churches {Things which are}

Rev. 4-22 = {The things which are HEREAFTER}

Rev. 4-5 the is the Church in Heaven after the Rapture but before the Seals are opened.

Rev. 6,7, 8, 9, 10, 15&16 are the Seal, Trumpet and Vial Judgments.

All other chapters are Parenthetical Citations that happen during the Judgment chapters above save for Rev. 20-22 which is after Jesus returns.

Just because we type something or believe something doesn't make it factual, I back all my points up with scriptures brother. God Bless.

 

[lismore]

Could it be we are like a person who misses his turn and still looks for it 2000 miles down the road? Someone too stubborn to take another look at the map?

Isaiah penned these words about the coming of Christ many hundreds of years before:

My righteousness draws near speedily, my salvation is on the way, and my arm will bring justice to the nations (Isaiah 51:5)

'Soon', 'speedy', by our definition or by the Lord's?

God Bless

 

[Dave L]

Isaiah penned these words about the coming of Christ many hundreds of years before:

My righteousness draws near speedily, my salvation is on the way, and my arm will bring justice to the nations (Isaiah 51:5)

'Soon', 'speedy', by our definition or by the Lord's?

God Bless

But shortly really means thousands of years?

 

[Dave L]

Israel was Dead for nigh 2000 years, from 70 AD {or sooner in reality} until 1948, go read Ezekiel 37. The Valley of Dry Bones prophecy explains it all. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean God didn't plan it that way brother.

Rev. 1 Jesus as seen in all his Glory. {The things you have seen}

Rev. 2 the Seven Churches {Things which are}

Rev. 4-22 = {The things which are HEREAFTER}

Rev. 4-5 the is the Church in Heaven after the Rapture but before the Seals are opened.

Rev. 6,7, 8, 9, 10, 15&16 are the Seal, Trumpet and Vial Judgments.

All other chapters are Parenthetical Citations that happen during the Judgment chapters above save for Rev. 20-22 which is after Jesus returns.

Just because we type something or believe something doesn't make it factual, I back all my points up with scriptures brother. God Bless.

I don't agree with you interpretation of those prophecies. And shortly = 1000s of years is adding to Revelation.

 

[lismore]

But shortly really means thousands of years?

Speedily can mean hundreds of years.

 

[Dave L]

Speedily can mean hundreds of years.

 

[Jipsah]

On an eternal clock, 2000 years is soon.

But if you're talking to people, 2000 years is far from soon. Presumbly the Revelation was given to people for whim 2000 years was an unimaginable length of time.

Besides, if God's word is eternal, why does one manifestation of it render it moot?

It also doesn't mean that it always has to mean something other than what it says.

 

[nolidad]

Your starting place is off. You need to begin with Jesus' description of the Kingdom as spiritual, and adjust everything to this.

Well there is the inner aspect of the kingdom, but make no mistake. Jesus is physically coming back to earth and establish a kingdom that will last 1,000 years according to the word of God.

 

[nolidad]

I don't agree with you interpretation of those prophecies. And shortly = 1000s of years is adding to Revelation.

Excuse me for butting in here.

But it seems you are somewhat of a preterist. Ok:

Then simply show from history when all the events of REvelation has taken place. I know symbos are used- but symbols have a literal outcome on earth! So just show teh beast, the mark, the false prophet, the image coming alive, the seals, bowls and trumpets, etc.etc.etc.

 

[jamesbond007]

Think of this for a moment. If flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom, then Satan has only saints in glorified bodies to rally against the rest of the saints in glorified bodies when loosed, if a Millennium should exist.

I hear you on your exegesis. Our bodies would be like Jesus resurrected in glorification. There won't be blood, but our flesh will be different. However, I don't think Satan has people with glorified bodies during the great tribulation. Why would they be glorified? Satan will end up at war using the people remaining on Earth and the raising of the spiritually dead bodies.

 

[Revealing Times]

I don't agree with you interpretation of those prophecies. And shortly = 1000s of years is adding to Revelation.

You can deny what I showed you all you want brother, but truth is more important than pride. Who cares what we men think ? The two Greek words are easy to interpret, but you have built your whole eschatology around one passage that says SHORTLY, even though the Greek words EN and TACHOS were used, which means at a fixed point in time Jesus will come SWIFTLY. It never NEVER meant shortly as you insist as per in a short time frame, it means IN HASTE. We have the original Greek !!

You can't overcome those facts brother, sticking with your KJV understanding is just you not willing to see the facts, men can't lead other men to God unless we are willing to be humbled by God's power and wisdom.

 

[Revealing Times]

View attachment 263058

TACHOS = IN HASTE

 

[Dave L]

TACHOS = IN HASTE

Why tell the 7 Churches "in haste" if it is thousands of years later? It makes more sense to take the common usage.

 

[Dave L]

You can deny what I showed you all you want brother, but truth is more important than pride. Who cares what we men think ? The two Greek words are easy to interpret, but you have built your whole eschatology around one passage that says SHORTLY, even though the Greek words EN and TACHOS were used, which means at a fixed point in time Jesus will come SWIFTLY. It never NEVER meant shortly as you insist as per in a short time frame, it means IN HASTE. We have the original Greek !!

You can't overcome those facts brother, sticking with your KJV understanding is just you not willing to see the facts, men can't lead other men to God unless we are willing to be humbled by God's power and wisdom.

“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:” Revelation 1:1 (KJV 1900)

67.56 ταχύa; ταχέωςb; ταχινόςb, ή, όν; ἐν τάχει: pertaining to a point of time subsequent to another point of time (either an event in the discourse or the time of the discourse itself), with emphasis upon the relatively brief interval between the two points of time—‘soon, very soon.’

Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition., Vol. 1, p. 635). New York: United Bible Societies.

 

[Dave L]

I hear you on your exegesis. Our bodies would be like Jesus resurrected in glorification. There won't be blood, but our flesh will be different. However, I don't think Satan has people with glorified bodies during the great tribulation. Why would they be glorified? Satan will end up at war using the people remaining on Earth and the raising of the spiritually dead bodies.

But the Kingdom has only glorified saints after Jesus returns. Flesh and blood cannot inherit it. Plus, the kingdom is forever in the new heavens and earth, not 1000 years as the Pharisees originally called for.

 

[Dave L]

Excuse me for butting in here.

But it seems you are somewhat of a preterist. Ok:

Then simply show from history when all the events of REvelation has taken place. I know symbos are used- but symbols have a literal outcome on earth! So just show teh beast, the mark, the false prophet, the image coming alive, the seals, bowls and trumpets, etc.etc.etc.

I'm Amillennial. The problem is, people look for the symbols to appear and miss what they represent. Fulfillment began in some instances with the first advent and especially after John published Revelation.

 

[Dave L]

Well there is the inner aspect of the kingdom, but make no mistake. Jesus is physically coming back to earth and establish a kingdom that will last 1,000 years according to the word of God.

This is not inline with Jesus' teachings on the Kingdom.
Please consider the spiritual nature of the Kingdom:

“And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 3:2) (KJV 1900)

“And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.” (Matthew 11:12) (KJV 1900)

“Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” (Matthew 16:28) (KJV 1900)

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.” (1 Corinthians 15:50)

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3) (KJV 1900)

“Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” (John 3:5)

“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.” (John 18:36) (KJV 1900)

“And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:” (Luke 17:20) (KJV 1900)

“Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21) (KJV 1900)

“But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.” (Luke 11:20)

“because we are not looking at what can be seen but at what cannot be seen. For what can be seen is temporary, but what cannot be seen is eternal.” (2 Corinthians 4:18)

“Now when the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus performed, they began to say to one another, “This is certainly the Prophet who is to come into the world.” Then Jesus, because he knew they were going to come and seize him by force to make him king, withdrew again up the mountainside alone.” (John 6:14–15)

“He delivered us from the power of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of the Son he loves,” (Colossians 1:13)

“When Jesus saw that he answered intelligently, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And no one dared to question Him any longer.” (Mark 12:34) (HCSB)

“for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.” (Romans 14:17) (HCSB)

“I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.” Revelation 1:9 (NASB95)

 

[BABerean2]

Jesus is physically coming back to earth and establish a kingdom that will last 1,000 years according to the word of God.

Only if you ignore the fact that the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order, and the symbolic nature of Revelation chapter 20.

The time of the judgment of the dead, and reward, and destruction is found in the verse below.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which
destroy the earth.

Do you think a spirit being like Satan can be bound with a steel chain, like one from the hardware store?

Mar_5:4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.

.