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Did the Obama Administration spy on Trump?

Discussion in 'General Politics' started by Mountainmanbob, Nov 27, 2018.

  1. Of course they did and thought they would get away with it

    14 vote(s)
  2. No

    13 vote(s)
  1. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

    United States
    I just thought it might be interesting to the guy who was concerned about the Antichrist.
  2. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    When was it proven false that British intel spied on Trump Tower with the collusion of Brennan and Obama?

    Note that it was not the Trump campaign which started the false narrative of "Russian Collusion", but five-eyes, in its hatred for candidate Trump.

    And there has not been even one charge of "collusion".

    How did his finances support the "Russian Collusion" falsehood?

    Also, why couldn't he be friendly with Israeli intel like Brennan and Obama were friendly with British intel?

    A miracle from God.

    The d.s. was sure that it had 2016 locked up. No chance that he could beat Hillary.

    But God and the People had a different plan.

    Thank God.
  3. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    Note that the Founders made the Constitution so that no one person could control the government.

    But the deep state is not part of the Constitution. Instead, it is utterly against it. And it has set everything up for the future Antichrist's total surveillance and subjugation of everyone (Revelation 13:4-18).

    Note that some people connected with Trump could be antichrists without him being the Antichrist.

    Note that his name does not equal 666 in any gematria, while the future Antichrist's name will.

    That is, the 666 in Revelation 13:17c-18 refers to the number six hundred and sixty-six, the "number of the name" of the individual man who will be the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"). The number of a name (Revelation 13:17c-18, Revelation 15:2) is determined by employing the ancient method of gematria, by which numerical values are assigned to the letters of any alphabet as follows: the first nine letters are assigned a value of 1 through 9, the next nine letters are assigned a value of 10 through 90 (counting by tens), and the rest of the letters are assigned a value of 100, 200, 300, etc., to the end of the alphabet. In Revelation 13:18 the "counting", the adding up, of the gematrial number of the future Antichrist's name should be done in the same way that the gematrial numerical values of the three Greek letters (Chi, Xi, and Stigma) at the end of Revelation 13:18 (in the original Greek Textus Receptus) are added up to arrive at the number six hundred and sixty-six.

    The numerical values assigned to the letters of the ancient Greek alphabet (including the three obsolete letters of Stigma, Qoppa, and Sampi) were as follows: Alpha = 1, Beta = 2, Gamma = 3, Delta = 4, Epsilon = 5, Stigma = 6, Zeta = 7, Eta = 8, Theta = 9, Iota = 10, Kappa = 20, Lambda = 30, Mu = 40, Nu = 50, Xi = 60, Omikron = 70, Pi = 80, Qoppa = 90, Rho = 100, Sigma = 200, Tau = 300, Upsilon = 400, Phi = 500, Chi = 600, Psi = 700, Omega = 800, Sampi = 900.

    Just as the numerical values of Chi, Xi, and Stigma at the end of Revelation 13:18 (in the Textus Receptus) add up to 666, so the numerical values of the letters in the future Antichrist's name will add up to 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18). The apostle John used the Greek alphabet because it was the most common one used by Christians when the book of Revelation was written down in the first century AD. Today, the English alphabet is the most common one used by Christians, insofar as English is the current lingua franca of the world. So the Antichrist's name will most likely add up to 666 in the English alphabet. The purpose of Revelation 13:17c-18 is to facilitate for Christians, not to make difficult for them, the identification of a certain man as possibly being the Antichrist. If the letters in his name had to be transliterated into the Greek alphabet, this would vitiate this purpose, for almost all Christians today would not know how to properly perform this transliteration, and so different Christians would come up with different transliterations, and so would come up with different gematrial numbers for the name of the man in question.

    If Christians think that someone is the Antichrist, they need to see if his name adds up to 666 in gematria (Revelation 13:17c-18). If it does not, then he is not the Antichrist. If it does, then he could be, and they need to be especially wary of him, and not be taken in by any deceptive charisma, intelligence, or amazing deeds that he might display. But even if someone's name adds up to 666, this does not mean that he is definitely the Antichrist. For just by chance there could be more than one person in the world whose name adds up to 666. The Antichrist also has to come from a country the territory of which used to be part of one of the four Diadochian Greek kingdoms which succeeded Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25). These kingdoms stretched from Greece over to Iran, and down into Egypt. So the Antichrist could come from the Middle East. He could be an Arab who will come from Lebanon, from the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4), and have a name like (for example) "Nabil Abdullah Falakal al-Hakim", which adds up to 666.

    But if a man from the Middle East has a name that adds up to 666, even this does not assure that he is the Antichrist. For he also has to sit (at least one time) in a future, third Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15, Revelation 11:1-2). Once he does that, there will not be any more room for doubt over whether or not he is the Antichrist. His identity will have been definitely revealed (2 Thessalonians 2:3b-4).

    The gematrial numerical values of the letters of the English alphabet are: A=1, B=2, C=3, D=4, E=5, F=6, G=7, H=8, I=9, J=10, K=20, L=30, M=40, N=50, O=60, P=70, Q=80, R=90, S=100, T=200, U=300, V=400, W=500, X=600, Y=700, Z=800. The way that the gematrial number of a name is "counted" (Revelation 13:17c-18), is added up, is simply by adding up the gematrial numerical values of all of the letters in that name. So, for example, the number of the name "John Mark Smith" is 636, because: J=10, O=60, H=8, N=50, M=40, A=1, R=90, K=20, S=100, M=40, I=9, T=200, H=8. Total = 636. The future Antichrist's name will add up to 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18).

    The sixth seal (Revelation 6:12-14) could be fulfilled in our future by a huge volcanic eruption (possibly of the Yellowstone Caldera), which will occur during only the first stage of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. This eruption could begin with a large earthquake (Revelation 6:12), signaling the sudden rising of magma within the volcano. When it erupts, it could shoot so much ash and smoke into the sky that the sun will appear darkened and the moon blood-red (Revelation 6:12b), like happens during large forest fires. The volcano could also shoot blobs of red-hot magma into the sky, which as they fall back down could appear like falling stars (Revelation 6:13). And it could shoot so much super-heated ash and smoke so high and so quickly into the sky that they could form a gigantic mushroom cloud, which will make the sky (the first heaven) look like a scroll being rolled up (Revelation 6:14). Earthquakes connected with the eruption could be so large that they set off a chain reaction of other earthquakes in nearby faults and volcanoes, which could set off even more earthquakes farther away, and so on, so that earthquakes will end up affecting every mountain and island, moving each of their positions at least a little bit (Revelation 6:14b).

    Note that antichrists do not claim to be Biblical Christians, for antichrists deny that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ (1 John 2:22), or they deny that Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (1 John 2:22b), or they deny that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7).

    Note that it has been shown that he cannot be, because his name does not add up to 666.

    Note that Clinton remains untouched, because the d.s. is protecting her.

    Not with regard to collusion. And any d.s.-supported Clinton investigation would produce the same financial-crimes results.

    This is not to say that there should be any such investigation, but that Trump should be given a break just as she has been given a break. Also, he should be given a break with regard to any investigation regarding collusion with a foreign power, just as Brennan, Obama and his people have been given a break with regard to their collusion with British intel against candidate Trump and President-elect Trump.


    Based on what source?

    Note that he doesn't go by the name "Don".

    Also, how has it been shown that even the non-existent name of "Don Drumpf" equals 666 in Jewish gematria?

    Also, note that there is no such thing as English Sumerian gematria.

    How has that been shown?

    Also, note that he doesn't go by the name "Drumpf", or by his middle name.

    So we simply need to check the name that he does go by: "Donald Trump", to see that he cannot be the Antichrist.
  4. Jamsie

    Jamsie Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    Senate and House Intelligence committees find no evidence for Donald Trump's claim that Barack Obama wiretapped Trump Tower. You do know that both the House and Senate are Republican controlled... As Senate Investigators Push Back, White House Defends Trump Surveillance Claims (Even Devin Nunes, trump's sycophantic water boy stated that there was no evidence)

    So please provide the evidence that Congress failed to find to support your claim... How sad when reasoned objectivity is lost, when truth is forsaken, and one's blind bias is based on unprovable false assumptions.

    Note, why would the trump campaign accuse themselves? Your assertions are completely hollow as you are unable to offer even a modicum of evidence... the "d.s." did it hardly qualifies.

    What does Israel and Britain have to do with anything? Fact - Kushner had close to 100 foreign contacts...undisclosed, his security clearance was down graded. Is Sergey Gorkov an Israeli or British? Why did the Republican led senate question Kushner about his Russian contacts? Fact - trump campaign had myriad contact with Russians... though initially trump denied any. Then there is this - Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

    Do you understand the distinction between God's efficacious and permissive will?
  5. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

    United States
    When was it proven false that lizard people are secretly running the goverments of all nations? If you know that, then you know your answer.

    Acttually, it was a Trump campaign staffer, who blurted it out while drinking with an Australian diplomat, who passed it on to his government, who passed it on to the FBI.

    They've nailed Trump's National Security Advisor for lying to the FBI about his Russian contacts. He's already admitted the fact, and plead guilty.

    The documents show that Trump lied when he told us he had no Russian involvement. Whether or not he's criminally involved is not yet known.

    Seeing as he blurted out secret Israeli intelligence to the Russians, I don't imagine they're very friendly with him right now.

    Revealed: The highly sensitive Israeli intelligence on Isis that Donald Trump gave away to Russia
    Revealed: The top secret Israeli intelligence Donald Trump gave away to Russia

    I would hope so. They are our allies. However, I don't remember either of them openly blurting out classified intelligence in an open meeting. When do you think that happened?

    As you know, the polls had it very close. So I think you're wrong.

    I don't know how God voted, but the People voted for Clinton by a nearly 3,000,000 vote majority.
  6. Yarddog

    Yarddog Senior Contributor Supporter

    Now who took the time to figure that out. Lol
    He does fit the profile, in that, he is all about himself. He is the great liar. He says he doesn't need to ask God for forgiveness because he doesn't believe he has sinned.

    We are called to reject the world and Trump embraces the world. He loves power. He loves money. He loves himself and hates his enemies. What else can be said.
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  7. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    Note that Congress would not be given any such evidence by the d.s., just as the d.s. stonewalled Congress' request for the documents regarding Clinton Foundation pay-to-play.

    For the d.s. is a power unto itself. It can do or not do anything that it wants.

    Also, there would not be any record of Obama wiretapping Trump Tower if he simply had Brennan secretly give the okay to GCHQ to do the dirty work. For then no warrant would be required, because it would not be U.S. intel spying on U.S. citizens, but foreign intel. And U.S. intel does not have to reveal even to Congress its dealings with foreign intel. It's "too secret".

    This is what makes the d.s. so dangerous.

    They have the two most powerful i.c.'s in the world. And the secret battle between them is what has driven the continuing tumult regarding Trump and his people.

    That is, British intel did not want Israeli intel to obtain the same type of relationship with Trump's people that British intel had with Obama's people. For this would give Israeli intel an edge over British intel, which the latter could not abide. For it must be supreme, just as the British Empire was supreme in its day. And British intel has even reestablished that empire in the sense of effectively taking over U.S. intel and many other countries' i.c.'s., such as in Eastern Europe. For note how the latter just released sigint to the media against Cohen re: Prague, no doubt as a cutout for the Brits.

    So British intel is even more scary than the U.S. deep state. For the former is the leader of the world's deep state (minus Russia, China and their cronies).

    So what? The Christie campaign had contacts with Brits.

    But was there any investigation regarding that?

    Also, can there be "contacts" without "collusion" with regard to foreign interference in a U.S. election?

    Of course, that's why there still has not been even one charge of "collusion" in the Russian investigation.

    The Russian investigation was simply a made-up diversion from the fact of British interference against candidate Trump and President-elect Trump on behalf of Brennan, Obama and his people, who all hated Trump.
  8. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    Note that Papadopoulos was purposely sought out and set up by five-eyes as a way to try to bring down candidate Trump.

    And not even Papadopoulos has been charged with "collusion".

    For he simply "wanted" dirt against Clinton from Russia, while she actually obtained the dossier dirt against Trump "from Russia".

    But the d.s. will not lift a finger against her. Why is that?

    (This is not to say that it should, but that it should give Trump a break like it has given her a break. Anything less would show the utter politicization of the d.s.)

    Note that those contacts were not "collusion".

    That's why not even Flynn has been charged with "collusion".

    He was targeted simply as a way to try to bring down President-elect Trump and President Trump.

    For the d.s. hates democracy. It wants to rule by itself.

    Note that he could have had financial involvement with Russia without "collusion".

    That's why Trump has not been charged with "collusion".

    His finances are now being targeted simply as another way to try to bring down a duly-elected President on behalf of the d.s. (and British intel).

    Are you kidding? Israel knows that Trump is the best friend that it has ever had.

    And he proved that by moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem.

    Not if they interfere in U.S. elections, as they did against Trump in 2016, not only with regard to spying on Trump Tower, for example, but also with regard to the dirt dossier against Trump, which came from a so-called "former" British intel agent.

    They did? Then why was everyone shocked when Trump won?

    Was it that much? What was the precise figure, and what percentage was that with regard to total voters?

    Also, note that they all voted as part of their Constitutional electoral system, which gave the victory to Trump. Otherwise, coastal Dem states would have a permanent monopoly in choosing the President for the entire country.

    The point of the electoral system now is that a candidate has to appeal to the whole, almost-entirely red country, not just the blue coasts, where the values are so different than in the red heartland.

    Thank God for the Constitution.
  9. jgarden

    jgarden Senior Veteran

    17 of this President's surrogates had suspicious contacts with Russians, including a high level meeting to get "dirt on Hillary" right in Trump Towers, and yet not one of them saw fit to report this to the FBI!

    The FBI, however, was informed of these numerous Russian contacts with Trump associates from other sources and it would have been a dereliction of duty had they not investigated.

    If these meetings had been all of an innocent nature, why have so many of Trump's team already been charged and pled guilty to lying to the FBI?
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
  10. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

    United States
    No one can find any evidence for things you want to be true, so there must be a great conspiracy to keep it from you? I don't think so.

    It is the law of the land. The founders deliberately made the state too deep for anyone to take control of it on his own.

    [quote[Also, there would not be any record of Obama wiretapping Trump Tower if he simply had Brennan secretly give the okay to GCHQ to do the dirty work.[/quote]

    "No evidence" means "it must be true?" I don't think so.

    But we've already seen that the FBI went to a judge to get warrants when they thought there was probable cause to suspect a crime. So your imagination doesn't fit reality very well.

    You see, the FBI can't just wiretap someone. They get a warrant from a judge. This is what tripped up Trump when he wanted to just order Hillary Clinton jailed. The deep state means that he can't just rule as a dictator.

    This is what makes the d.s. so dangerous to people like Trump.

    Given that Trump blurted out Israeli intelligence to an agent of the Russian state, I'd say Israeli intelligence isn't so eager to give him more material.

    It's public record. All one had to do was look at the telephone company data to find that Cohen's phone was making calls in Prague when Trump had denied that he was there.
  11. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

    United States
    He got drunk, blurted out the truth to a diplomat who reported it.

    He's already plead guilty. No point in denying it.

    He admitted that the Trump campaign was receiving help from foreign agents.

    Opposition research is not a crime, if you pay for it.

    Because all those people in the Trump campaign broke laws, and Clinton didn't.

    He's getting it. A little at a time. Just as she did. Maybe he'll be innocent, too. Be patient; they're getting to the bottom of it.

    Technically, he's guilty of lying about it. You do know that the proper term is "conspiracy", right?

    And here we all thought it was because he's a criminal who lied to the FBI.

    As you know, the deep state assures we will continue to be a democracy. It trips up any would-be dictator who wants to rule by himself. In a shallow state, that's easy. In a deep state, there are too many other sources of power for a despot to rule.

    Trumps finances are now being targeted because he lied to us about them. We now know, that in spite of his denials, he was closely working with the Russians on a proposed project in Moscow.

    (Barbarian notes that the polls showed that the 2016 race was going to be very close, particularly in swing states. That's what Clinton said publicly.

    Yep. Check it out at Real Clear Politics.

    A lot of people were predicting that he'd win. The confusion is that while he lost by about 3 million votes, in the popular vote, he narrowly won a few swing states that gave him enough electoral votes.


    Learn about it here:
    2016 United States presidential election - Wikipedia

    Most Americans voted for Clinton. Normally, that would mean she won. But from time to time, the system glitches and the loser of the vote wins in the electoral college. That's what happened this time.

    You're probably right. If we always elected the candidate favored by most Americans, then democrats would perpetually win. That doesn't mean there's something wrong with Americans; it means there's something wrong with republicans.
  12. Jamsie

    Jamsie Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    "There would not be any record of Obama wiretapping trump tower" … did you ever consider that there are no records because no such conspiracy with Brennan/GCHQ ever happened? Do you really believe that Devin Nunes, trump's water boy, would have concocted something rather then conclude there is no evidence? Perhaps you might insert among your bald assertions and other fallacious ramblings that it may be the following:

    *President Obama himself went to "Wiretaps-R-Us" and purchased the necessary equipment and snuck into trump tower to set-up the surveillance?

    While some choose to wallow in the nonsense of alex jones, corsi, and a number of fox news entertainers most of us prefer living in the real world dictated by reason, logic, common sense, and some proof or evidence... even a little which you seem unable to offer.
  13. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

    United States
    For the conspiracy enthusiasts, absence of evidence is proof that it happened.



    Yeah, that would work. WFTH-I

    If you believe really hard, you don't need evidence.
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  14. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    Note that Hillary actually did receive "Russian" dossier dirt on Trump, but the FBI could not care less about that. Why?

    Instead, the FBI has even used the "Russian" dossier dirt to go after Trump.

    This is because the d.s. is so against Trump, while it is so protecting Hillary.

    How sad to see such bias. So much for "blind" justice.

    (This is not to say that Hillary should be gone after, but that Trump should be given a break just as she is being given a break.)

    Why hasn't the FBI investigated the numerous British contacts with Obama associates, which led to the tapping of Trump Tower by GCHQ, and the releasing of the Trump dossier by a so-called "former" British agent?

    Also, why hasn't the FBI investigated the British contacts with candidate Christie? For during the Republican primary campaign, he was even shown on TV news exiting a meeting at 10 Downing, and then rudely squelching any questions whatsoever by waiting reporters interested in what was going on.

    The lack of investigation is because the U.S. deep state has been taken over by British intel.

    And so investigating anything with regard to British interference in the 2016 election is off-limits.

    It cannot be investigated in any way.

    How did we reach this point?

    What ever happened to the Declaration of Independence?

    If the meetings themselves were of a criminal nature, then why has not there been even a single charge of "collusion"?

    Could it be that the Russian "collusion" investigation was initiated solely as a distraction from the very real collusion of Brennan, Obama, and his people with British intel in order to go after candidate Trump and President-elect Trump?

    (This is not to say that Obama and his people should be gone after, but that the d.s. should give Trump and his people a break just as it is giving Obama and his people a break. Anything less shows the utter politicization of the d.s.)
  15. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    Note that the Founders knew nothing of the deep state, for it uses claims of "secrecy" and "national security" to avoid any accountability to the Constitutional branches of government. It is a completely unconstitutional, fourth branch. And it has even set everything up for the future Antichrist's total surveillance and subjugation of everyone (Revelation 13:4-18).

    What suspected crime were the warrants based on? And who has been charged with that crime?

    Also, was there a warrant to spy on Trump Tower?

    If not, note that there would not have to be, because the spying was done by foreign intel on behalf of the d.s.

    And the d.s. does not have to reveal to anyone its contacts with foreign intel. They're "too secret".

    This is what makes the d.s. so dangerous. It can get away with anything in the name of "secrecy" and "national security".

    Note that no warrant is required for the FBI to take advantage of the Section 702 loophole of the horrible FISA bill.

    How did what he said result in actual harm to Israel? Also, can you give any other instance of exposure besides that single case?

    Also, Israel knows that he is their best friend ever, and would not intentionally do anything to harm it.

    He proved this by moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem.

    Then why was the info released by Eastern European intel, and only just recently? Because no one else had access to that supposedly-private data.

    What do the EU privacy laws think of such a release?

    Also, the data was held back and only released now to put more pressure on Trump at this point, and to help further distract from any looking into British interference in the 2016 U.S. election.


    Note that the "diplomat" could have also been a five-eyes agent who purposely sought Papadopoulos out and set him up as a way to try to get to candidate Trump.

    Also, the only thing that Papadopoulos blurted out was that he "wanted" to get dirt on Hillary from Russia, while she actually did get the Trump dossier dirt on Trump "from Russia".

    And yet he was gone after while she was protected.

    Also, note that he has not been charged with "collusion", just as no one has been.

    What did he please guilty to? And how long did he spend in jail?

    The answers will show that the d.s. only targeted him as a way to try to get to Trump.

    What was that help, specifically?

    Also, why has no one been charged with regard to that?

    Also, what help did Brennan, Obama and his people receive from foreign (i.e. British) agents in going after candidate Trump and President-elect Trump, and in compiling dirt dossiers on every Republican member of Congress?

    Even if it comes from foreign agents?

    Also, should receiving dirt on one's political enemies from foreign agents be okay so long as those agents don't charge anything for it?

    If so, why?

    What is the difference with regard to foreign agents interfering in U.S. politics with the collusion of U.S. citizens?

    That is, are you saying that if Trump's people had paid Russia for dirt on Clinton then it would have been okay?

    What laws did they break that she didn't?

    How is Flynn technically guilty of conspiracy, and why has he not been charged with that crime?

    Why haven't any of Trump's people been charged with that crime?

    But Clinton has not lied about Clinton Foundation pay-to-play?

    So what? How was such a project conspiracy?

    And what about Clinton's Uranium One project with Moscow? And the $500,000 speech-bribe?

    What does it show with regard to how close the polls were right before the election?

    Who, and based on what polls?

    What was the exact figure for how many votes he lost by? And what percentage was that of the total number of votes?

    Also, why would there be any "confusion" if the polls were supposedly so close?

    Then is the Constitutional electoral system "a glitch"?

    Or does it require a Presidential candidate to appeal to the People in all of the states of the vast United States, and not just the people in only a handful of (blue) states along the coasts?

    Thank God for the Constitution.


    Do you include evidence of Russian "collusion"?

    For note that not one person has been charged with that crime.

    Why is that?
  16. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    No, because there would be no need to keep any records of that. For it would be "too secret" to ever have to reveal to anyone.

    This is the whole danger of the d.s., and the so-called "friendly" foreign i.c. which has taken control of it.

    Note that he would have no need to do that. For GCHQ, like the NSA, continually taps everyone in the world through compliant telecom companies giving them access to their trunk cables and satellite links, which carry everyone's electronic communications.

    The reason to go to GCHQ would simply be because it does not need a warrant to spy on U.S. citizens. And the d.s. can deal with foreign intel without having to tell anyone about it, because it's "too secret".

    May God help us.

    The Founders are turning in their graves.
  17. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

    United States
    They designed it purposely to stop would-be dictators from assuming complete power. And it works.

    What has you in dither is that it requires accountability. It's built into the separation of powers.

    No, it's an integral part of all three branches. You know this.

    What has you upset is that it prevents Trump from doing things like that.

    The New York Times has previously reported that Papadapoulos bragged to an Australian diplomat that the Russians had damaging information on Clinton before the hack of the DNC became publicly known. The Australian government tipped off the FBI to what Papadapoulos had said, according to the Times.
    Memo: Papadopoulos info triggered FBI's Russia investigation

    So the warrant was based on that information, to see if there was a conspiracy between agents of the Russian state and the Trump campaign. What we know so far, is that Papadapoulos lied to the FBI about that. Which is the crime to which he plead guilty.

    You don't get warrants to spy on a building. Buildings are hardly ever guilty of anything. Trump was furious, thinking that the Justice Department should be his personal law firm, and the FBI his personal enforcers.

    This is what makes the deep state so dangerous to tyrants; the separation of powers makes it very hard to get away with the sort of crimes being perpetrated by Trump offiicials.

    Do you actually know what is in Section 702? It seems you don't.

    (Regarding Trump's careless blurting out of Israeli intelligence to agent of the Russian state)

    We don't know. Israeli intelligence was sufficiently concerned about it, to give it their highest classification. Trump just rambled on as he does, and for unknown reasons, forgot that it was classified.

    He might have been a lizard man. They secretly rule the world, you know.
    Conspiracy craze: why 12 million Americans believe alien lizards rule us

    They lied to you about that. He bragged that Russia had dirt on Hillary Clinton. If Russia had given the Trump organization that material, or if the Trump organization had asked for it, it would be a crime.

    No. She hired a British investigator to find it. Which is legal.

    When U.S. investigators asked him about it, he lied about it. That's a crime.

    What she did is not a crime.

    The crime of collusion is called "conspiracy." Thought you knew. So far, he's just been charged with lying about it to federal agents.

    They always go after organized crime that way.

    He had retired. No longer with British intelligence. A right-wing organization hired him to check out Trump. After Trump was nominated, he was hired by Clinton to check him out.

    Show us that. He would have to have gotten a lot of help to do that.

    Especially so. That would also be a criminal violation of campaign funding laws.

    It's called "conspiracy."

    They hadn't been agents of the Russian state, and they paid for the data, that would not have been illegal. This is why Don Jr. is expecting to be indicted.

    So far we know about lying to investigators. And some financial crimes. But Mueller is keeping the investigation pretty quiet. We don't know what else might be coming. Be patient.

    According to the sentencing judge, he betrayed his country. He mused whether or not it amounted to treason. However, the prosecutor limited the charges to lying to investigators.

    He's cooperating with the investgation, now.

    He was Trump's National Security Advisor.

    She hasn't lied about the tooth fairy, either. For the same reason.

    And what about Clinton's Uranium One project with Moscow? And the $500,000 speech-bribe?

    Already linked you to the data. Go back and check.

    Usually not. Three times, the winner in the electoral college was not the candidate favored by most voters.

    It's unusual that the results were so far removed from the vote totals, this time.
  18. EpiscipalMe

    EpiscipalMe Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    The conspiracy theories run thick on this thread. I should have passed out tin foil hats for Christmas.

    Mueller has been very methodical and effective. He has also been tight lipped. Both of these have led Trump supporters - in and out of government - to panic.
  19. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

    United States
    These stories are mostly designed to be passed around in echo chambers where only true believers go. It's quite useful for them to be exposed to critical discussion. Sunlight is a great disinfectant.
  20. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    Note that the Founders knew nothing of the deep state, for it is an unconstitutional, fourth branch of government which has itself assumed complete power to continually surveil everyone without a warrant, in violation of the Fourth Amendment.

    Note that the d.s. is unaccountable to the three, Constitutional branches of government. For the d.s. can claim that anything it does is "too secret" to reveal to them.

    No, it is separate from all of them because it does not have to answer to any of them, but can do or not do whatever it wants in the name of "national security".

    Only because it does not like Trump, not because it is against the total surveillance and subjugation of everyone per se, as it should be against them.

    Also, the d.s., like the rest of the world, will worship the future Antichrist, the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast" (Revelation 13:4-18), and so it will hand over all of its power to him.

    So what? Clinton knew that "the Russians" had damaging information on Trump before the dossier became publicly known.

    So why wasn't Clinton gone after like Papadopoulos was gone after?

    Because the d.s. is completely politicized, and is controlled by British intel, the source of the dossier.

    Note that the "diplomat" purposely sought out and set up Papadopoulos as a way for five-eyes to try to target Trump.

    Was there a conspiracy? If so, then why has there not been even a single charge of conspiracy?

    Because that was not the point. From the start, the whole point was to try to undermine candidate Trump.

    What did he actually lie to the FBI about? And what crime was he actually charged with? And how long did he spend in jail?

    The answers will show that he himself or his actual crime did not matter that much to the FBI.

    He was just a way to try to get to Trump.

    Didn't work.

    So now the d.s. is resorting to going after Trump regarding his finances.

    GCHQ spied on Trump Tower, in the sense of the people within it, without a warrant.

    Instead, it was his utterly-biased nemesis, in collusion with British intel.

    Note that the d.s. has repeatedly allowed Clinton and her associates to get away with the same sorts of crimes.

    Because it likes Clinton.

    Also, the d.s.'s own crimes are never revealed to the People, which makes it so dangerous.

    It allows the FBI to spy on U.S. citizens without a warrant.

    How do you know that it had Israel's highest classification? Also, what was the piece of intel about, and how would its revelation hurt Israel?

    Why would a lizard man want to nail Trump? Why not just eat him?

    Also, five-eyes wanted to nail Trump from the start because it hated him, and feared that he would, with the help of Israeli intel, remove British intel's control over U.S. intel.

    Regarding a reptile ruling the world, note that in the future the world will worship Satan (the dragon) along with the future Antichrist (Revelation 13:4-18). And Satan is a literal, seven-headed, red, serpentine dragon (Revelation 12:3,9), also called Leviathan (Isaiah 27:1, Psalms 74:14, Job 41:1,34). He could have begun his existence as a dinosaur born some 66 million years ago, near the end the age of the dinosaurs. Over millions of years before his birth, his dinosaur species could have evolved (or been miraculously granted by God) to have consciousness as we know it. And his seven-headedness, which could have been a fortuitous (or a miraculous) mutation, could have been heralded by his species as the arrival of a super-consciousness into the world. As he grew up as a conscious dinosaur, Leviathan could have come to know and worship God with all of his heart. God could have then granted him immortality, and taken him into heaven to serve God as a cherub. Cherubim are a type of angelic being (Ezekiel 10) which could include individuals shaped like different animals, like how seraphim are a different type of angelic being (Isaiah 6:2-3) which includes individuals shaped like different animals (Revelation 4:7-8). As a cherub in heaven, Leviathan could have been assigned to the office of "the morning star", and so been given the name "Lucifer", which means "the morning star".

    After spending some 66 million years in heaven as a very contented cherub, and perhaps as even one of the greatest angelic beings in heaven, Lucifer could have been assigned by God to go to the earth to be a "covering cherub" over the Garden of Eden (Ezekiel 28:13-14), to watch over that special, local garden, and its special, individual humans named Adam and Eve, miraculously created by God only some 6,000 years ago. God could have also at that time given the as-yet-unfallen Lucifer authority over all of the rest of the earth (cf. Luke 4:5-6). But Lucifer could have chafed at his new assignment, seeing it as wholly beneath his dignity. He could have felt like a long-time chief of staff of a U.S. President would feel if he were suddenly assigned by the President to leave his high position in the White House to go baby-sit two pet salamanders in a hothouse in Alaska.

    From Eden, Lucifer could have repeatedly requested God to let him return to his high position in heaven, only to be refused, until Lucifer in his heart fell into rebellion against God, and vowed to himself that eventually he would ascend back into heaven, and take rule over all of the angelic beings there, regardless of what God wanted (Isaiah 14:13-14). And so the fallen Lucifer became Satan (cf. Luke 10:18), which means the "Adversary". While still in Eden, as possibly his first act of open rebellion against God, Satan decided to deceive Eve into disobeying God (Genesis 3), knowing that this would result in her (and her offspring) becoming mortal (Genesis 2:17). In the future, Satan will deceive the world (Revelation 12:9) into worshipping himself and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 13:4-8), knowing that this will result in billions of people ending up in eternal suffering (Revelation 14:9-11), the same eternal suffering which he knows that he himself will end up in (Revelation 12:12c, Revelation 20:10,15, Matthew 25:41,46).

    Lucifer will deceive the world into worshipping him after he loses a war in heaven at the midpoint of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, and is cast down to the earth permanently (Revelation 12:7 to 13:4). But instead of coming down looking defeated, he could descend to the earth in a magnificent, gigantic golden spaceship for all the world to see. The world could see him as an "alien", but he could slither forth from his spaceship and say something like: "Greetings! Be not alarmed. I assure you that I am no alien, but a fellow earthling, born and raised on this planet millions of years ago. I have come to help you through this terrible tribulation which you are experiencing, and to show you how you might eventually return with me back into a much better, higher realm of existence, wholly beyond this evil, material universe".

    He could then foist upon the world an updated version of an ancient Gnostic lie: "Listen, my fellow earthlings! None of us belong here. We did not start out here, but all started out as wholly-spiritual beings, even wholly-divine beings, residing in utter bliss from all eternity in the Pleroma, what you would call Heaven, the higher realm which I will eventually take you back to. During the endless ages of our past existence in the Pleroma, we were not averse to partaking in a great variety of different entertainments. So when YHWH, who was one of us, yet of greater consciousness than any one of us, announced that he had devised a marvelous new form of entertainment, we were ready to give it a try.

    "YHWH said that he had created a physical universe (this one), which to us was like what you would call a virtual reality, like the ones you create using computers. And he said that we could enter this universe, and interact with all of its amazing physical life-forms and objects, by temporarily taking upon ourselves physical bodies, which to us was the equivalent of what you would call a virtual-reality headset, gloves, etc., which some of you wear on your bodies when you want to wholly immerse yourselves in the virtual realities which you create with computers.

    "But then YHWH proposed another aspect to his entertainment which we all most foolishly accepted. He said that to increase the intensity of our experience in his universe, he would use his greater consciousness to hypnotize each of ours, so that while we were in his universe, each of us would think that all we were were physical entities within his material universe. We would completely forget that we were actually wholly-divine beings, and had been from all eternity, dwelling in bliss in the Pleroma.

    "When one of us asked YHWH: 'But what if we don't like our experience in your universe, and want to exit it and return here to the Pleroma? How could we ever notify you of our wishes, when under your hypnotic spell we will have no knowledge of that option?' YHWH answered in a very assuring manner that he would be able to instantly extricate any one of us whom he saw was not enjoying his new entertainment. We all believed him, because he had not yet shown his true nature to anyone. We had no idea that in his heart he was actually an evil, cruel tyrant, who all along had been planning to imprison, enslave, and torture all of us within his diabolical device (this physical universe).

    "But during my great sufferings in YHWH's physical realm, and the great struggles of my consciousness, my spirit, to find a way of escaping it, my spirit eventually grew in power to be equal to YHWH's, and so I was able to break myself free from his hypnotic spell, and regain all of my divine power. I can show you the way to do the same thing, but you must be willing to join with me now with all of your own consciousnesses, your own spirits. You must be willing to love and worship me now completely, so that the power of all of your spirits might become joined with the power of my own, greater spirit, and eventually break completely free from YHWH's hypnotic spell. Then you will regain all of your own, divine power, like I did, and together we will defeat YHWH, and we will escape this vile, material universe, and ascend back to the Pleroma, and to our bliss as gods, doing what we please, forever"

    The world will actually believe this lie (or something similar to it), because it will be accompanied by the most amazing miracles (e.g. Revelation 13:13) performed by the power of Lucifer/Satan himself (2 Thessalonians 2:9), and because it will be accompanied by a strong delusion sent by YHWH God on the unrepentant world (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12). But the world will worship Lucifer (and his human son the Antichrist, the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") for less than four years (Revelation 13:4-18, Daniel 12:11-12) before Jesus Christ (who is YHWH: John 10:30, Zechariah 14:3-4) returns from heaven and defeats them completely (Revelation 19:20 to 20:3). Jesus will then set up his own, 1,000-year, physical kingdom on the earth with the physically resurrected Church (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).

    Did that crime ever happen? If so, then why has not anyone been charged with it?

    Also, isn't that the same as the crime of Clinton receiving the "Russian" dossier on Trump?