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Did the Obama Administration spy on Trump?

Discussion in 'General Politics' started by Mountainmanbob, Nov 27, 2018.

  1. Of course they did and thought they would get away with it

    14 vote(s)
    51.9%
  2. No

    13 vote(s)
    48.1%
  1. Yarddog

    Yarddog Senior Contributor Supporter

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    Is Trump also charging that the Trump administration is spying on him? If one was then his is, as well.
     
  2. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

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    I thought that it was pretty well known by now that Obama did some spying that probably was not legal?
    M-Bob
     
  3. Jamsie

    Jamsie Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Actually, it is "pretty well known" by any objective person that Obama or any president can not have someone spied on. Thus the premise of the thread was faulty … as Bonhoeffer said "If you board the wrong train there is no use in running down the corridor in the other direction"...it does appear that many seem to dismiss that fact.
     
  4. Yarddog

    Yarddog Senior Contributor Supporter

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    Then Trump is also illegally spying on himself now. There has been nothing to show that anything was illegal in how the FBI investigated the Russian investigation.
     
  5. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

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    In fact, that's what had Trump angry at Jeff Sessions, almost immediately.
     
  6. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note that it isn't, for the separation of powers refers to the three Constitutional branches of government.

    The d.s. is a fourth, unconstitutional branch which hides its activities from the other branches in the name of "secrecy" and "national security".

    So, unlike with the three Constitutional branches of government, there are no "checks and balances" against the d.s.

    It is a power unto itself.

    This is what makes it so dangerous.

    Note that the Founders knew nothing of the deep state, for it has set everything up for the future Antichrist's total surveillance and subjugation of everyone (Revelation 13:4-18).

    -

    Ultimately, the power behind the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will be Lucifer/Satan (the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:9), just as the controllers of the non-Christian world have always been (and are still currently) Satan and his fallen angels (Ephesians 6:12, Ephesians 2:2-3). But there could also be a secret cabal of human world leaders in big business, finance, intelligence agencies, federal law enforcement, politics, the media/entertainment, the military, and religion, who know this fact and so have secretly become worshippers of Satan in order to obtain from him all of the world's power, wealth, and pleasures that they can (cf. Matthew 4:9).

    These Satanists could have been working secretly together for some time (including through a worldwide secret society which teaches Gnostic Luciferianism, also called Satanism, at its highest degree of initiation) to prepare the way politically, economically, culturally, militarily, and religiously for a single Satanist human world leader (the Antichrist) to take hegemony over the whole earth (Revelation 13:7b), and, along with his miracle-working False Prophet, to bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer/Satan and the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9, Revelation 19:20). God will let them succeed in this, but for less than four years (Revelation 13:5b, Daniel 12:11-12), before Jesus Christ returns from heaven and defeats them completely (Revelation 19:20 to 20:3). Jesus will then set up his own, 1,000-year, physical kingdom on the earth with the physically resurrected Church (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:8-21).

    That is what happened after Trump was elected. The "Russian collusion" conspiracy theory took on full power as a way to explain how he could have beaten Clinton.

    But it wasn't Russia that beat her, but the People of the U.S. based on their democratic election system.

    The d.s. hates democracy to its core, and so it gladly took up the "Russian collusion" conspiracy theory in order to go after a duly elected President, just as it had gone after candidate Trump from the start.

    But the Russian conspiracy theory has proven to be a total washout: Not a single charge of "collusion".

    Instead, now it is all about going after Trump with regard to financial crimes, while purposely avoiding Clinton's financial crimes with regard to Clinton Foundation pay-to-play.

    The d.s. and the left should just admit that Trump beat Clinton fair and square, and give him a break just as they are giving Clinton a break. The left should be focusing on defeating Trump in 2020 fair and square based on the U.S.' democratic election system.

    Anything less would show the utter politicization of the d.s., and the utter inability of the left to admit that it simply lost 2016.

    It lost because it neglected the People who elected Trump.

    Similarly, the only way to defeat the d.s. is if the People, both right and left, demand its dismantling and the restoration of the People's Constitutional rights.

    That the right and left can work together was proven by the criminal justice reform bill which was passed recently. What is needed now is a similar, d.s. reform bill.
     
  7. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note that he can, secretly, if he gets his CIA director to ask a so-called "friendly" foreign intel agency to do the spying for him.

    Also, he can have someone spied on by U.S. intel through "reverse targeting", that is, getting U.S. intel to target a foreign person with known contacts with the U.S. person that he wants to spy on. And then the President can have his people "unmask" that U.S. person.

    Both of these illegal moves were made against candidate Trump and his people.

    There has been no successful investigation into these illegal moves because the d.s. will not release any info regarding them to Congress, based on "secrecy" and "national security".

    This is not to say that any such investigation should occur, but that Trump should be given a break just as Obama and his people are being given a break.

    The wrong train is the d.s. and its unconstitutional powers, which the U.S. needs to stop and depart from.

    Let's go back to a Constitutional government as set up by the Founders.

    They clearly knew the dangers of "secret" government activities which can be directed against the People.

    That was the whole point of the American Revolution: put the government into the hands of the People.

    But the d.s. cannot abide this, for it sees the People as stupid and not worthy of self-government.

    The d.s. must rule them from behind the scenes, crushing their Constitutional rights and those of their duly elected leaders, in the name of "secrecy" and "national security".
     
  8. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

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    That's the "deep state." The founders designed the state be deep to prevent any one person from running it as he pleased.

    As you learned, that's a falsehood. In shallow states like North Korea, a ruler can do what he likes. You're frustrated because Congress and the Courts have repeatedly stopped Trump from taking our liberties. The deep state is the Constitution.

    It is a power unto itself, the law of the land. This is what makes it so dangerous to would-be tyrants.

    Note that the Founders intentionally designed deep state, for it has set everything up to trip up people like Trump.

    (paranoid ranting about the AntiChrist deleted)

    Trump isn't the AntiChrist; he's just a girfter who happens to have become President of the United States. He's trying get as much as he can from it, while it lasts.
     
  9. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

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    Why Did Obama Administration Spy On Trump Campaign? Was It Politics, Or Fear Of Russian Meddling?

    This is significant, since the farther back in time the actual origin of the spying on Trump, the less likely it is that it had anything to do with Russian involvement in the 2016 elections, but everything to do with stopping the surprising surge of Trump during the GOP primaries and beyond.
     
  10. Jamsie

    Jamsie Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That people choose to align themselves with the alex jones types, fox entertainers, and the myriad conspiracy nut jobs available is a personal choice...though actual evidence is extremely elusive. Fortunately, if you recall, many of the adults in the trump administration had the integrity to apologize to GCHQ.

    Perhaps one should acknowledge that the mythical "deep state" (insofar as it concerns the USA) is simply the ploy of the trump cult to defend the self-induced incompetence displayed on a daily basis by the current president. If this past week and present time doesn't substantiate all of this then truly he could shoot someone on 5th Ave. without repercussions.

    I try to avoid rabbit holes and as Barbarian has had the patience to completely refute the feckless imaginations of the "deep state" and conspiratorial nonsense set forth ...it is best to leave the trump cult wallowing in their own caloric deficient stew.

    Excuse those of us who don't run "down the corridor in the other direction" when reasoned consideration shows the "d.s." to be an elaborate but hollow distraction to an inept administration. If on the other hand one would suggest that the "d.s." has more to do with money in politics, corporatism, and influence of wealth perhaps there would be agreement to an extent...but as trump's tax cuts demonstrate trump himself is immersed in such.
     
  11. Yarddog

    Yarddog Senior Contributor Supporter

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    “Spygate,” the false allegation that the FBI had a spy in the Trump campaign, explained - Vox
     
  12. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

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    Corruption is a common thread in all governments. It's why we need a deep state. Without it, there will eventually be a Trump who will gather power and use it for his own purposes. But in a deep state, the power is scattered among enough centers that it's incredibly difficult to rule as a despot.

    So the corruption in a deep state compares to corruption in a shallow state like Russia as fleas compare to wolves.

    The fleas don't like it, and dream of being wolves.
     
  13. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

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    It was the deep state that exposed Nixon, and the deep state that exposed Iran/Contra. It was the deep state that exposed Clinton's sexual behavior.

    mediadc.brightspotcdn.com.jpg

    Increasingly, the deep state is exposing criminals in the Trump administration.
     
  14. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note that the Founders knew nothing of the deep state, for it has set everything up for the future Antichrist's total surveillance and subjugation of everyone (Revelation 13:4-18).

    Note that they have repeatedly not stopped the d.s. from taking our liberties. This could be because the d.s. has dirt dossiers on every member of Congress and every judge.

    No, the deep state is anti-Constitution. It cares only about secrecy so that it can maintain its power.

    That's right, for the gematrial "number of the name" of the person who is the Antichrist is 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18, Revelation 15:2), while the gematrial number of the name "Donald Trump" is 849:

    D=4, O=60, N=50, A=1, L=30, D=4, T=200, R=90, U=300, M=40, P=70. Total = 849.

    The man commonly called the Antichrist will be the fulfillment of the individual "man of sin" (2 Thessalonians 2:3) who will sit (at least one time) in a future, third Jewish temple building in Jerusalem and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). He will fulfill the individual "man" aspect of the "beast" who will come (Revelation 13:18) and bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and himself (Revelation 13:4,8, Revelation 12:9). He will rule the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:5-10, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7) and will have a miracle-working False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13) who by amazing, Satanic miracles (2 Thessalonians 2:9b), such as calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13), will deceive the people of the world into worshipping a speaking (possibly an android) image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15) and receiving a mark of the Antichrist's name or gematrial name-number (666) on their right hand or forehead (Revelation 13:16-18). The Antichrist and his False Prophet will be ultimately cast into the lake of fire at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:20), while at that time Satan will be bound in the Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3).

    *******

    But it refuses to go after the criminals in the Obama administration.

    (This is not to say that it should, but that it should give Trump a break just as it is giving Clinton, Obama and his people a break.)
     
  15. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Exactly right. And this is a perfect example of the power of the d.s. to undermine democracy by going after people it doesn't like, but the People like.
     
  16. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Why did they apologize?

    Note that the d.s. invented the "Russian collusion" distraction to undermine candidate Trump, then President-elect Trump, and now President Trump. For the d.s. is anti-democracy. It thinks that it knows better than the People, who can easily decide for themselves in 2020 if they want to keep Trump or not.

    The d.s. does not care about wealth per se. All it cares about is Power. Power over the People, whom it sees as stupid and not worthy of choosing their own leaders. Instead, it is the d.s. who gets to pick and choose their leaders.

    God forbid.
     
  17. Jamsie

    Jamsie Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Perhaps because of the false claims/Lies concerning British involvement in "spygate". Of course understanding that the trump cult finds truth inconsequential the facts involved are meaningless: A timeline of Donald Trump’s false wiretapping charge

    Note that the trump campaign was the true prompt of "Russian Collusion": https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...-timing/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.30742a2a05d7

    ...and how many times did Kushner have to "update" his financial disclosure forms?

    You simply have it all skewed, it works like this - wealth = influence, influence = Power. The proof of that can be found in the Princeton Report. The truth is that the trump cult will believe anything set before them that defends this president. Again, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, and the complete lack thereof to support their conspiratorial nonsense, the trump cult will defend and/or deny all accusations. (The proof of that is that in another thread someone wanted evidence that trump lies...when in fact he does daily, or do you deny that, too?)

    If the "d.s." is so very powerful then how did trump get in office?
     
  18. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

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    As you just learned, they intentionally made the state too deep for any one person to control it. Trump envies the rulers of shallow states, where they can just rule by decree. But the founders knew people like Trump would come along and so they deliberately set up separation of powers to thwart him.

    Barbarian observes:
    Trump isn't the AntiChrist; he's just a girfter who happens to have become President of the United States. He's trying get as much as he can from it, while it lasts.

    Well, he is that. (Barbarian checks)

    (1) The Trumps own the most expensive building ever bought in the US, at 666 Fifth Avenue, a street symbolic of money (Mammon).
    (2) The Trumps paid $1.8 billion for the 666 tower. And 18 = 3*6 = 666. The 666 tower is controlled by Ivanka Trump and her husband Jared Kushner. Kush was the patriarch of Babylon.
    (3) The Trumps are also in the process of building a $666 million tower at One Journal Square. According to multiple reports the height will be 666 feet.
    (4) The famous Trump Tower is 203 meters tall according to multiple reports. And 203 meters = 666 feet. The Trump penthouse is on the 66th floor!
    (5) Donald Trump inherited his grandmother's real estate empire when she died on June 6, 1966 = 6-6-6. Her name was Elizabeth Christ Trump. Elizabeth means "vow," so her full name means "Vow for Christ to be Trumped."
    (6) In the first year of Trump's presidency, fiscal year 2017, the budget deficit rose to 666 billion dollars! (Per Fox Business and other sources.)
    (7) Donald Trump's name equates to 666 in Jewish gematria, English gematria, and ASCII computer code. There are details below.
    (8) Trump's fearmongering comments about "rapists" and "drug dealers" vaulted him to the top of the polls on June 6, 2015 = 6+6+(1+5) = 666.
    (9) Trump announced his candidacy for president on June 16, 2015 = 6+(1*6)+(1+5) = 666. On the Ides of March, he had 666 delegates.
    (10) The 2016 election was "all Trump all the time" and 2016 = 666+666+666+6+6+6.

    On the day Trump allowed the Nunes memo to be published—in a blatant attempt to discredit and smear the FBI while destroying public confidence in the bureau's integrity—the stock market dropped 666 points. If there are no accidents with God, what is God trying to tell His disciples?

    The January 1998 cover of the adult magazine Genesis (the first book of the Bible) asks: "DONALD TRUMP THE NEXT PRESIDENT?" And 1*1998 = 666 + 666 + 666.

    Trump's military parade was supposed to cost $12 million, according to him. But the Pentagon said it would cost $80 million more, an increase of 666%, because 80 divided by 12 is 666%.

    According to White House insiders, Trump spends hours watching, being influenced by, and tweeting in response to the Fox network. Eerily, the letters in "Fox" add up to 666 in several different ways. And the Bible contains a 666-related verse in which Jesus called the Antichrist who kept trying to kill him here on earth a fox! That verse is Luke 13:32 and 1332 = 666 + 666! To see all the evidence, please click here: FOX 666. Is Fox the False Prophet to Donald Trump's jackal-like Beast?

    According to Trump's registration card with the Selective Service System (SSS = 666), which has been made public, he has birthmarks on both heels. Who the hell has birthmarks on their heels? Are the birthmarks in the form of three sixes? On his registration form Trump's weight was given as 180, and 18 = 3 * 6 = 666. Trump claims to be six-foot-three and 6 * 3 = 18 = 666.

    Trump was born on June 14, 1956 which has a Julian date (YDDD) of 6165. And that is three more sixes: 6 + 6 + (1+5) = 666.

    Furthermore, Donald Trump was born during a rare blood moon, on June 14, 1946 at 10:54 am, and the Bible says that the moon will turn to blood before "the great and terrible day of the LORD." On July 27, 2018 the earth experienced the longest total lunar eclipse of the century, another rare blood moon that continued into the early hours of July 28. At the same time Mars reach its opposition and point of maximum brightness. Mars is called the "red planet" and symbolizes war, because Mars was the god of war according to the pagan Greeks and Romans. So it was a double blood moon, with Mars rivaling the moon in size and color. At the time of this double blood moon, Trump not only had the US closer to war with Iran, North Korea and China, but he was alienating our closest allies, threatening NATO, and rejecting American intelligence in favor of believing Vladimir Putin, whose code name as a KGB officer was "Pale Moth."

    This incredibly rare event was a blue moon (a second full moon in a calendar month), a super moon (when the moon is unusually close to Earth, making it bigger and brighter) and a blood moon (a moment during an eclipse when the moon appears red), all coinciding for the first time since 1866. And 18 = three sixes, so 1866 = 66666. The next time this incredibly rare cosmic event will recur will be the year 36,996. Flipping the nines over, that is 3 *6 plus 666 = 6666666.

    On July 27, 2018, the date of the century's longest and rarest blood moon, Trump bragged about the only god he worships, Mammon, saying: "The year before I came into office, private business investment grew at only 1.8 percent. Last year, it jumped to 6.3 percent. This year, it's growing at 9.4 percent, so that's a very tremendous increase." Of course 1.8 = 6*3 = 666. And 6.3 = 6 * 3 = 666. And 9.4 = 9 * 4 = 36 = 666. On the same day, hundreds of children remained separated from their mothers, thanks to Trump, while his massive military spending bill authorizes tactical nukes and a third-world-style military parade. According to Trump, there is never any money to help less fortunate children, but spending the better part of a trillion dollars on nukes, wars, walls and parades is not a problem. Would Jesus Christ agree? On the day of the blood moon, Trump then jetted off to Bedminster for yet another taxpayer-paid golf vacation.

    (2 Thessalonians 2:3) who will sit (at least one time) in a future, third Jewish temple building in Jerusalem and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). He will fulfill the individual "man" aspect of the "beast" who will come (Revelation 13:18) and bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and himself (Revelation 13:4,8, Revelation 12:9). He will rule the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:5-10, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7) and will have a miracle-working False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13) who by amazing, Satanic miracles (2 Thessalonians 2:9b), such as calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13), will deceive the people of the world into worshipping a speaking (possibly an android) image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15) and receiving a mark of the Antichrist's name or gematrial name-number (666) on their right hand or forehead (Revelation 13:16-18). The Antichrist and his False Prophet will be ultimately cast into the lake of fire at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:20), while at that time Satan will be bound in the Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3).


    Even if Trump is not THE ANTICHRIST, he may be one of many antichrists: "Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour." (1 John 2:18).

    These antichrists are apostates who claim to be Christians, while doing exactly the opposite of what Jesus Christ taught and did himself. And has anyone ever been less like Jesus Christ than The Donald? When the Hebrew prophets spoke of a "little horn" and the "Trump of Doom" were they speaking literally? Daniel 7:8 warns us about a "little horn" that speaks "boastfully" of "great things." Trump speaks boastfully of making America "great" again, while presenting a completely negative image of Christ. To see how Trump fulfills Biblical prophecies, please click the hyperlink.

    What will happen to Christians who support a man who is the exact opposite of Jesus Christ in every way? Will they be the goats who claimed to follow Jesus, calling him "Lord! Lord!" only to hear him say on the last day: "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity!" The Bible says Christians who follow the Beast will "drink of the wine of the wrath of God." Are Christians risking damnation by supporting Trump?

    Did American Christians just elect the Antichrist, making him president and putting him in charge of the American government, economy, military and nuclear codes? Have the elect been deceived, just as the ancient prophets foretold? Were the elect ironically deceived during an election? Who elected Trump? Four out of five evangelical Christians voted for Trump, according to exit polls.

    Trump is putting the X back in Xmas by X-ing out refugee children and their mothers. If baby Jesus and Mary showed up needing shelter, Trump wouldn't provide them with even a lowly manger. Instead, he'd order American soldiers to drive them back into the wilderness at gunpoint. Meanwhile, this is what the satanic festivities at the White House looked like last year: Trump Christmas.

    Donald Trump Antichrist 666 Beast Little Horn Trump of Doom Revelation Blood Moon

    You might be right. Maybe Trump is the Antichrist. WFTH-I

    They are. To match what they did to Clinton, it will take a few more years. At least the Trump investigation has actually produced results. They found real crime, took down real criminals, and recovered more money than they have spent so far.

    More to come.
     
  19. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

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    The Trump surname is an anglicized version of the German name Drumpf ...

    • In Jewish gematria and English Sumerian gematria the value of the letters in Don Drumpf is 666. (Don being both his abbreviated first name and meaning "powerful ruler.")
    • Donald John Drumpf in American ASCII computer code is 666.
    • Donald Trump called himself the Brexit candidate and Don Brexit in American gematria is 666.
    • Brexit Trump yields 966 in Jewish gematria, 996 in English gematria, and 166 in simple gematria. "I Am guiding you" also yields 966 in Jewish gematria.
    • Donald Trump said that he should be called "Mr. Brexit" and since his family is German that would be Herr Brexit, which yields 669 in Jewish gematria.
    • Donald John Trump's real name in German is Donald Johann Drumpf and each name has six letters = 666.
    • There are multiple reports of Trump flashing the Illuminati triple-six hand sign = 666.
    • The Trump coat of arms contains three number six symbols = 666.
     
  20. Junker P Hoodwink

    Junker P Hoodwink Member

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    Are you alleging that Donald Trump sold his soul to be president, metaphorically speaking?
     
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