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Did the Obama Administration spy on Trump?

Discussion in 'General Politics' started by Mountainmanbob, Nov 27, 2018.

  1. Of course they did and thought they would get away with it

    14 vote(s)
    51.9%
  2. No

    13 vote(s)
    48.1%
  1. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

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    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. disciple Clint

    disciple Clint Well-Known Member

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  3. Yarddog

    Yarddog Senior Contributor Supporter

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  4. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

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    As usual, Trump tosses out claims, but fails to provide any evidence at all. No one with any sense believes him.
     
  5. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Trump is right to do so, for the Russians were not the only foreign power which meddled in the election. The OA employed a so-called "friendly" foreign intelligence agency to spy on Trump and his associates.

    But this will never come out, for the Repub House dithered away its two-year chance to reveal all that happened. And now the Dem House will shut down all investigation except into Trump's finances and those of his family.

    Also, the Deep State will never squeal on a foreign intelligence agency which it is utterly dependent on.

    There would have to be a whistleblower who goes straight to the media.

    But this could unleash a huge backlash of intelligence "dirt" being exposed not only against Trump and his family, but against every last Repub in Congress.

    No one wants to go there.

    Many Repubs in Congress even refused to run for reelection precisely to avoid any such possible exposure while still in office.
     
  6. disciple Clint

    disciple Clint Well-Known Member

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    Lets just wait and see who has sense
     
  7. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

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    That's what they said before the midterm elections. That's what GM told Trump when he started his foolish trade war with China. That's what his own people told Trump when he decided to separate children from parents as a way of discouraging asylum requests.
     
  8. Tom Farebrother

    Tom Farebrother Optimistic sceptic Supporter

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    Law enforcement agencies using law enforcement methods to investigate the suspect actions of suspect characters. Who would have thought that’s what they are for?
     
  9. disciple Clint

    disciple Clint Well-Known Member

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    That would be all well and good if the law enforcement agencies had legitimate probable cause to believe that a crime happened. In this case the probable cause was invented by Hillary with a false dossier.

    Trump dossier’s 10 core collusion accusations unverified 20 months later

    FBI says Russia dossier’s collusion charges unsubstantiated
     
  10. Tom Farebrother

    Tom Farebrother Optimistic sceptic Supporter

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    True so far as it goes, hence the ongoing investigation. Note that Steele’s company was originally hired by a group of Republicans concerned about Trump’s candidacy. It remains to be seen what will come out in the wash - Steele is and always has been a credible operator, his business relies on his credibility, and on his wide network of intelligence contacts within Russia. He was one of the world’s leading Russia experts during perestroika and glasnost, and was working in Russia undercover during the transition. Avoiding dealing with reality by calling everything Trump doesn’t like ‘false’ strikes me as rather immature tbh. Just read the info and reason through it. How much of it will ever be provable beyond a reasonable doubt is a fair question, but that has nothing to do with whether or not it is actually true, that is a matter of weighing up what can be known. You can engage with it and have an opinion but Trump’s tactic of decrying everything he feels threatened by as false isn’t something that grown men should imitate.
     
  11. disciple Clint

    disciple Clint Well-Known Member

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    why post opinion in response to facts, what I posted is backed up with the articles based on facts.
     
  12. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

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    That story fell apart the week Trump's people pushed it out. Turns out, the scandal was discovered when a Trump campaign worker bragged about it while drinking with an Australian diplomat, who passed it on to U.S. authorities. Would you like me to show you?

    However, where investigators have been able to check the information in the dossier, it has turned out to be true:

    What’s True in Trump-Russia Dossier? Key Parts Proved Over Last Year
    Dossier Claim: Russia Meddled

    Revelation: The U.S. intelligence apparatus concluded that Russia interfered in 2016’s election in a report released in January 2017. Though Steele’s name is not mentioned in that report, it does back up his reporting that Russia was actively interfering in the election process.

    Dossier Claim: Russia Had Dirt on Clinton and DNC

    Revelation: Much of the dossier is devoted not only to Trump but to Russia’s—specifically Putin’s—distaste for former Secretary of State Clinton. “Putin motivated by fear and hatred of Hillary Clinton,” one line of the dossier reads. Another line said: “The two sides had a mutual interest in defeating Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton, whom President Putin apparently both hated and feared.”

    Steele later cites one source as stating Russia that was behind the leak of hacked Democratic National Committee (DNC) emails to WikiLeaks.

    The U.S. intelligence community confirmed not only that Russia had tried to meddle in the election but that it was the source of the hacked DNC emails released by WikiLeaks.

    Dossier Claim: Putin Was in Charge

    Revelation: On the very first page of the dossier, Steele explains that the election meddling was “endorsed by Putin” and that the effort was “both supported and directed” by him. The U.S. intelligence report reached the same conclusion, writing that Putin “ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the presidential election.” According to Steele’s sources, Putin and Russia had been cultivating Trump for “at least 5 years.”

    Dossier Claim: Mr. Cohen Goes to Prague

    Revelation: The president’s former personal attorney, Michael Cohen, was accused in the dossier of meeting with “Kremlin representatives” in Prague in August 2016. Cohen has repeatedly denied traveling to the Czech capital, but McClatchy last month reported that Mueller had evidence the trip happened.

    The report stated that Mueller’s team discovered proof Cohen got to Prague through Germany. The two countries are part of a number of European nations with an open borders agreement that allows undocumented travel. However, no other media outlet has been able to confirm McClatchy’s reporting.

    Dossier Claim: Russian Diplomat Was a Spy

    Revelation: Steele also claimed that Russia was worried a diplomat named Mikhail Kalugin was heavily involved in the meddling operation. Afraid he would be exposed, Russia pulled Kalugin out of Washington on “short notice.” Steele actually misspelled Kalugin’s name, but the U.S. government had identified Kalugin as a Russian spy, the BBC reported in March.

    Dossier Claim: Page Met With Russians

    Revelation: Carter Page previously denied having met with Russian government officials during his trip to Russia in July 2016, but he admitted to the meeting while speaking to the House Intelligence Committee last November. Page was a foreign policy adviser to Trump’s campaign and in June 2016 delivered a speech in Washington praising Putin. And as early as September 2016, U.S. officials were looking into Page’s contacts in Russia, Yahoo News reported.

    Dossier Claim: Manafort Received Payment for Work in Ukraine

    Revelation: Paul Manafort, who is facing serious charges from Mueller’s team, worked extensively in Ukraine for years before Trump hired him as campaign chairman in 2016. The longtime Washington lobbyist received $12.7 million from the political party of former pro-Russia Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych between 2007 and 2012, The New York Times reported on August 14, 2016. Manafort resigned from the campaign after that report.

    Steele’s dossier states that Yanukovych and Putin met the day after the story broke, and the former made assurances to the latter that no trail could be found.

    “This had been held in secret on 15 August near Volgograd, Russia, and the Western media revelations about Manafort and Ukraine had featured prominently on the agenda,” the dossier says about the meeting. “Yanukovych had confided in Putin that he did authorize and order substantial kick-back payments to Manafort as alleged but sought to reassure him that there was no document trail left behind which could provide clear evidence of this.”

    In April 2017, financial records unearthed by the Associated Press confirmed that at least $1.2 million went to Manafort’s company from Ukraine.
    Here's what's true in the infamous Trump-Russia dossier
     
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  13. disciple Clint

    disciple Clint Well-Known Member

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    You should read articles I provided, they seem to prove you are incorrect.
    One thing is certain they are much more accurate than your unsupported opinion or your links that do not address the facts that are provided in my links.
     
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  14. Tom Farebrother

    Tom Farebrother Optimistic sceptic Supporter

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    Which facts do you mean?
     
  15. Tom Farebrother

    Tom Farebrother Optimistic sceptic Supporter

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    What in my post isn’t factual?
     
  16. disciple Clint

    disciple Clint Well-Known Member

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    That is not going to work but nice try
     
  17. disciple Clint

    disciple Clint Well-Known Member

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    everything that is opinion
     
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  18. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

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    Nope. As you just learned, the Steele dossier is not what started the investigations. However, as you just learned, so far each claim that has been checked out, has been confirmed to be true.

    No point in denying it.
     
  19. disciple Clint

    disciple Clint Well-Known Member

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    Please provide any, and again I say any, evidence for what you are saying
     
  20. Tom Farebrother

    Tom Farebrother Optimistic sceptic Supporter

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    Nb the last time I drove into the Czech Republic there was a nominal checkpoint, one of the few places in Europe where I’ve been asked to show my passport. I almost drove straight through it as there are no barriers, but there was an agent in a booth we showed our passports to. That was quite a few years ago now, but the CR was already in the EU.
     
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