Don't forget, nothing contrary and opposed to God is either logical nor (not even close to) superior. Thinking with the natural man's wisdom/knowledge/mind is unable to comprehend truth or spiritual things, but always conflicts with what is good an right and true.Or are you just ignoring that for your logically superior conclusion?
You're only focused on women's safety and "purity", not their autonomy. Sure, horrible things happened in convents. But horrible things happened everywhere back then to women. At least in a convent a girl born a peasant could potentially achieve recognition and honor, write a book, and have it copied and remembered.
One only has to read the Magnificat to learn Mary knew what was at stake here:So what is there to take away from that passage that just seems to be Mary being taken advantage of/being reduced to a vessel. I get the whole theme of obedience and all but the annunciation bit itself really still eats at me.
God did send His messenger Gabriel.I would tend to go along with the Catholics, inasmuch as I do see Mary giving her consent, at least implicitly (the other idea, that she didn't consent, is just sort of yucky, IMO, as it would treat a woman's body as merely an object). But at the same time, God knew she would say "yes" which is why she was chosen, and why she is rightly called blessed.
Well, as this is off topic, I won't go into it. However, while celibacy may have actually been a truth for many and a choice they were able to live out, it didn't always happen that way.
There is more than enough historic evidence to show that monastic life was not always what it appeared to be on the surface. And research into such things calls much of what went on in those places into question.
But that is a topic for another thread.
I didn't say our will "contravenes" God's. It absolutely does not. We are accountable for our choices and how we exercise our free will, however, because God in His infinite wisdom created us with the ability to choose Him.
And I never said otherwise. God is sovereign and just, He is also compassionate, merciful, forgiving, gracious and relational. Scripture calls us God's "children" for a reason.
Only because it wasn't relevant. God had already decided what was going to happened. It doesn't matter if she agreed to it or not. Christ was going to be born, of Mary the virgin. It's great she was ok with it after hearing what was going to happen but she had no choice whether she would get pregnant with Christ or not.
This certainly isn't rape but God does make decisions without asking us if it's ok.
Where did the authors of the gospels get this story about Mary and Joseph from? The gospels were written from nearly 40-95 years after Jesus left. This is long after Judaism rejected Jesus' gospel and the Pagan world was found to be more receptive.So why would Joseph intend initially to divorce her?
Or are you just ignoring that for your logically superior conclusion?
Where did the authors of the gospels get this story about Mary and Joseph from? The gospels were written from nearly 40-95 years after Jesus left. This is long after Judaism rejected Jesus' gospel and the Pagan world was found to be more receptive.
Sad you make horrible accusations and then say you won't discuss it because that's another topic. At least allow yourself in your anti-Catholic ramblings some shred of credibility by not engaging in this kinds of tactics. It's one thing to say untrue and prejudicial things, it is another to act as if it should be left to stand and you are taking the high ground. If you are going to make accusations, start your own topics.
The only people that stress God as "sovereign" as Calvinist to excuse their belief in a deity that creates people without choice, to burn in hell forever for their concept of God's "glory." We are God's children, but only through the consent of Mary. Without Mary's consent, we would not be children of God.
It’s not the length of time, it’s the potential influence of the retelling of the story, conjecture, speculation and hearsay. It’s the influence that Pagan converts brought to bear.You speak as if "40-95 years" is a problem. Historically speaking, a biography written 40-95 years after the death of the subject is almost unique for any ancient subject. People who knew Jesus were still alive when the earliest gospels were written, certainly when Luke was written.
So your point is irrelevant. If we can believe anything about Julius Caesar or Mark Anthony or even Louis IV, we can believe what is written about Jesus.
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