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Featured Did Mary consent to being impregnated?

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by cirrutopia, Dec 3, 2017.

  1. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Evangelical Catholic Supporter

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    You're only focused on women's safety and "purity", not their autonomy. Sure, horrible things happened in convents. But horrible things happened everywhere back then to women. At least in a convent a girl born a peasant could potentially achieve recognition and honor, write a book, and have it copied and remembered.
     
  2. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Don't forget, nothing contrary and opposed to God is either logical nor (not even close to) superior. Thinking with the natural man's wisdom/knowledge/mind is unable to comprehend truth or spiritual things, but always conflicts with what is good an right and true.
     
  3. amariselle

    amariselle Jesus Never Fails

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    Of course I'm "focused" on those things. How "autonomous" is someone who is still living in some kind of abusive situation where she is taken advantage of? Does a woman in that kind of situation really have better circumstances than many have had as wives and mothers?

    Anyway, I've gone off topic on this long enough.

    God bless
     
  4. redleghunter

    redleghunter Abide Boldly! Supporter

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    One only has to read the Magnificat to learn Mary knew what was at stake here:

    Luke 1: KJV

    46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,

    47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

    48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

    49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.

    50 And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.

    51 He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.

    52 He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree.

    53 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.

    54 He hath helped his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy;

    55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.
     
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  5. redleghunter

    redleghunter Abide Boldly! Supporter

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    God did send His messenger Gabriel.
     
  6. The Times

    The Times Well-Known Member

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    Traditionally a Jewish woman who gave her life to the Lord, would consider herself provillaged amongst women, to be bestowed such honour from God.

    No one in their rightful mind can impose the primary discourses of today's sick society on the God fearing society of those days.

    The sickness of today's society, especially the sick race wars and the sick gender wars that are happening in the times that we are living in, are all part of Satan's doing and his purpose of bringing about chaotic disharmony, so that he can deceptively draw humanity into his androgenyous antichristos society.

    If we consider scripture we can discern how those two women Elizabeth and Mary, who gave their lives to the Lord wanted to be his handmaiden and this quote below further suggests just that....

    24After this his wife Elizabeth became pregnant and for five months remained in seclusion. 25“The Lord has done this for me,” she said. “In these days he has shown his favor and taken away my disgrace among the people.” (Luke 1:24-25)

    Notice when she was pregnant she remained in seclusion. Meaning that, previous to her pregnancy she already was seclusion, which means that she had offered herself to the Lord, as would a nun do. She also declares that the Lord has answered her prayers and taken away her disgrace. It becomes obvious that Elizabeth went into seclusion, that is she lived a reclusive hermit life because of the disgrace she experienced all her life of not being able to have a child.

    The Angel tells Mary that she too has found favour, that is her prayers have also been granted. So what did Elizabeth and Mary who lived reclusive lives within the temple walls as virtually nuns want?

    Favour, meaning a blessing from God.

    So God delivered on that favour and it appears what God did for Elizabeth he also did for Mary......

    Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be unable to conceive is in her sixth month.

    It becomes obvious that Mary wanted a child from God, a child like onto David, hence her marriage to Jospeh was the step to realise that goal, where by all her prayers to God were all about, knowing fully well her genealogy that traced back to David. What Mary didn't expect is, that like Elizabeth, her preganancy would be a miraculous conception and that she inquired how this would come about, since she has not yet married a man for her to realise this.....

    How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”

    Then, the Angel follows it by saying that even Elizabeth is having a miraculous conception just like you. When Mary meets Elizabeth, she immediately goes into a praising hym that validates what Mary wanted in the first place.

    To impose today's sick society's primary discourses on the Jewish society of those days, is a preposterous act to say the least and borders on dishonesty and rebelliousness against God.

    Miraculous conception of John the baptists would therefore be confirmed by Jesus as follows....

    I tell you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John;

    Greater, points to the nature and so since John wasn't born of a human father and was miraculously conceived of the Holy Spirit, then John as the servant to prepare the way for the Messiah, was not Zechariah's biological son, hence John was not born with the inherited sin of Adam, henceforth he was filled with the Holy Spirit, meaning no original sin. That is why Jesus said there is no one born of women that is greater by nature than John, because he did not inherit the original sin. Think for a moment, how can John who came to prepare the way for the sinless Christ have inherited the original sin?

    He couldn't have, hence this is the plan of God and how he executed it, by two willing women who were praying for a child, Elizabeth being without child wanting her disgrace to be removed and Mary wanting a child of God, likened onto David, which guided her to marry Jospeh for that sole purpose of carrying the gift of God. She wanted it alright, she was the happiest woman that ever lived, when she was told that she had been favoured, that is her prayers were granted.

    John was not greater than Jesus, because the Messiah is the only one who could bring people to God the Father, yet John was already with the Father himself, because he had no earthly father.
     
  7. RadiantGrace

    RadiantGrace Member

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    Eve, born without sin, freely consented to the fall of mankind.

    Mary, preserved from the effects of sin by the death and resurrection of her Son, freely consented to its means to salvation by saying yes to God.

    Otherwise this is all a puppet show and pointless to discuss.
     
  8. RadiantGrace

    RadiantGrace Member

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    Sad you make horrible accusations and then say you won't discuss it because that's another topic. At least allow yourself in your anti-Catholic ramblings some shred of credibility by not engaging in this kinds of tactics. It's one thing to say untrue and prejudicial things, it is another to act as if it should be left to stand and you are taking the high ground. If you are going to make accusations, start your own topics.
     
  9. RadiantGrace

    RadiantGrace Member

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    The only people that stress God as "sovereign" as Calvinist to excuse their belief in a deity that creates people without choice, to burn in hell forever for their concept of God's "glory." We are God's children, but only through the consent of Mary. Without Mary's consent, we would not be children of God.
     
  10. RadiantGrace

    RadiantGrace Member

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    A man that sleeps with his wife makes children. A man that sleeps with his slaves makes slaves.

    I find it incredibly disturbing that you find it justified to force a woman to make children for anyone on religious grounds. When people violate the autonomy of others on religious grounds, or think it is justified because it is God's will, that's not a person that ought to have much freedom within society.
     
  11. Colter

    Colter Member

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    Where did the authors of the gospels get this story about Mary and Joseph from? The gospels were written from nearly 40-95 years after Jesus left. This is long after Judaism rejected Jesus' gospel and the Pagan world was found to be more receptive.

    It had been a superstition in the past that "sin" was passed through the sex act.

    Regardless of weather Joseph and Mary were married and Jesus was conceived the natural way, the miracle of the Son becoming the human child of Jesus was the miracle of miracles.


    "who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary, and was made man;"
     
  12. fide

    fide Member of His Body by grace

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    In Mary's response, "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word," the (Greek) verb "ginomai" is here translated "let it be."

    The Greek verb itself generally means "to come into being, to happen, to become". Used in this sentence of Lk 1: 38, the fact that is relevant to this thread is, this Greek verb is in the optative mood. The optative is used to express a desire for something that seems at least improbable: "I wish + verb ....", or in this context, Mary's heart-desire that this angelic announcement be - that this divine act (miraculous act) of God that does not seem possible (she is a virgin!), "come into being."

    I think that the grammar here conveys what we in English would call a "yes" - but (as is usual in the Greek in Scripture) more than merely a "yes": it is not merely "permission given to God" - it is her sincere desire that this miraculous plan of God come to pass, in and through her.
     
  13. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    You speak as if "40-95 years" is a problem. Historically speaking, a biography written 40-95 years after the death of the subject is almost unique for any ancient subject. People who knew Jesus were still alive when the earliest gospels were written, certainly when Luke was written.

    So your point is irrelevant. If we can believe anything about Julius Caesar or Mark Anthony or even Louis IV, we can believe what is written about Jesus.
     
  14. amariselle

    amariselle Jesus Never Fails

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    If you would like to start a thread discussing the history of monasteries, you can always do so.

    It is not "anti-Catholic rambling" to discuss history. So, I'm sorry you see it that way.

    God bless.
     
  15. amariselle

    amariselle Jesus Never Fails

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    Without Jesus Christ we would not be children of God.

    God knew Mary would consent, but even if she had not, His plan of salvation would have come to pass. She was no doubt not the only woman He could have chosen. But, obviously, God knows all things and He works all things together according to His perfect plan and purposes.

    God's plan would not have failed even if Mary had said no.
     
  16. Galilee63

    Galilee63 Newbie

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    Holy Saint Joseph had Children/Sons from his first marriage then his wife died. Then God The Most High spoke to Saint Joseph in a Holy Vision guiding him on what to do in relation our Most Holy Blessed Virgin Mother Mary along the way and at the same time God had been guiding Holy Mother Mary since infancy when at 3 or 4 years of a tender age She was living in a Convent/Temple with Hebrews after God had guided Saint Anna and Saint Joachim to leave Holy Mother Mary there as one would be doing in a Convent. Holy Saint Anna and Saint Joachim were Children of God - our Most Holy Blessed Virgin Mother Marys Parents - Hebrews - with their hearts obedient to God throughout their lives strictly in Union receiving God into their hearts and living His Holy Word Gifted by one Child destined by God our Heavenly Father to bring Jesus into the world. All prechosen and predestined by God The Most High from the beginning. Jesus was in Heaven from the very beginning with God The Most High and chose our Most Blessed Virgin Mother Mary with Holy Spirit.

    There are writings - thousands of these - from many of Gods Holy Saints - Nuns and Priests one being Holy Saint Anne Catherine Emmerich gifted with our Lord Jesus and Holy Mother Mary and other Holy Saints appearing to her as she wrote. Many other thousands of Saints/Nuns having had our Lord Jesus appear to them with Holy Mother Mary and on our Lords own, have received similar Holy Visions of Holy Heaven and visited Heaven many times with our Lord Jesus and Holy Mother Mary's lives here on earth made known to them - all directly reflecting Gods Holy Word, His Teachings and Commandments.

    For those interested.

    Ecatholic2000.com is one of the websites with Holy Saint Catherine's writings. I have not had the opportunity to read any more than a few passages of one chapter let alone the remainder however wish to do so soon.

    The Life of the Blessed Virgin Mary
    From The Visions Of Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich

    Translated by
    Sir Michael Palairet

    With supplementary notes by
    Rev. Sebastian Bullough, O.P.

    Edited by
    Donald R. Dickerson, Jr.







    Some of the Hebrew Holy Books were given to Holy Saint Ezra and other Priests and Prophets of Gods - many missing - some locked away in the Vatican - with God disclosing only certain things to the remainder of the world and keeping His other Holy Word Passages for the learned among Holy Ezra and Gods appointed when delivering His Holy Word and later His Saints/Nuns/Priests each Century.

    God The Most High had our Most Holy Blessed Virgin Mother in His Holy Sacred Divine Heart prior to Her Holy Conception and from the very beginning when the foundations of Gods Earth were being laid with Jesus Himself and Holy Spirit right the way through Her Birth - Holy Birth and years on earth - right through being Assumed Body and Soul into Heaven and Crowned Holy Queen of Heaven, Holy Queen of Hearts and Souls and Holy Queen of Graces in Jesus God Holy Spirit by God our Heavenly Divine Father and Holy Divine Creator.

    Many hearts souls passing over experiencing a shock and jolt to realise that had they turned to Jesus and our Most Holy Blessed Mother of Graces and Mercy in our Lord Jesus - their souls could have been saved had they been loving grateful reverant and honourable in their hearts whilst here.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
  17. The Times

    The Times Well-Known Member

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    As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the presence of God, in whom he believed, the God who gives life to the dead and calls into being what does not yet exist.

    God knows what is on the recording, then playing it forward makes no difference to what events unfold, it is a given as far as God is concerned. The recording started in the Garden and ends in the Garden with Jesus as the last Adam.
     
  18. Colter

    Colter Member

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    It’s not the length of time, it’s the potential influence of the retelling of the story, conjecture, speculation and hearsay. It’s the influence that Pagan converts brought to bear.
     
  19. Galilee63

    Galilee63 Newbie

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    I wish you all a very happy and safe Christmas my Brothers and Sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ and in our Most Holy Blessed Virgin Mother Mary.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
  20. Vicomte13

    Vicomte13 Well-Known Member

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    And Judith! Holy cow!
     
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