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Hm, what was the point of this answer? I was answering someone who claimed that Jesus was not divine by saying that there are both Christian and non-Christian sources who claim that he was indeed divine...
Best
Well, let me help you:
Firstly it is important to note that the four gospels of the Bible are the best sources we have for knowledge about Christ. Still there are some other fragmentary notes which may help us to establish who Jesus was, and one of them specifically points out that Christ was viewed as divine by his followers.
The Roman known as Pliny the Younger wrote to Emperor Traian about 112 AD that "Christians sing songs of praise to Christ as to a god".
The Jewish historian Josefus wrote about 90 AD that Jesus was called the Messiah (Antiquitates 20.200), and also that Christians believed Jesus to have lived a sinless life, that he died on the cross, that his followers had not quit believing in him and that they saw him alive three days after his death, and hence that he was thought to be the Messiah (Antiquitates 18.63-64).
Tacitus wrote in his Annals (15.44.4) that Christ was crucifed and that the Christians had a deadly superstition which was getting increasingly popular.
All these sources deal with Jesus as the crusifed Christ, and Pliny t.y. even claims that Christians viewed Christ as God.
So, yes, there are sources outside of the Bible which claim Jesus' divinity.
Best,
Disippelen
Which either means he is a liar for making himself equal to God, or he is equal to God, and because God regularly said there are none like him, he must therefore be God, as he cannot be merely his equal, according to God's testemony.The Jews' wanted to stone Jesus for making himself equal to God!
Er . . . Thomas calls Christ o theos mou . . . THE God of me . . . and Jesus doesn't correct him as a good Rabbi would if he weree worshipped and NOT God . . . and certainly John 1:1 which calls Christ God directly.
What ever lanuage you care to use... Jesus never said the words. " I am God"
I may be equal to you... but I am not you!!!
There is no one quite like you... but I can claim to be equal to you!!!
What you are into is neither here nor there. What I do take exception to is your claim of me being disingenuous. One does not have to "believe" in the Bible in a fundy way to understand it. If anything, faith taints the literature. Moreover, I find the inference of constructing Jesus odd seeing that's exactly what Christianity does.
Great, then a play on words is not a direct claim. If anything it's a indirect claim. Moreover it's not a matter of the mental gymnastics given the nature of Jesus or if not "he must be nuts" it's what the author is trying to convey. If any of the Gospels should be taken with a large grain of salt, it's the "high Jesus" Gospel according to John. It is a far cry from the Jesus of the synoptics.
Are you kidding?
Of course Pliny said "a god", he was a Pagan Roman...
He was an outsider looking at the Christians and describing what they did. Why should he say "God" about who they prayed to? He didn't believe in their Christ...
Don't you see that the point of giving you this evidence was to demonstrate that also non-Christians (not only the Bible etc) claim that Christians saw Christ as their god ("God")?
Anyway, the point with Jesus' divinity is not that Jesus is the Father, but that he is fully of the being of God - what is usually formulated as true God and true man.
Best,
Disippelen
