Did Jesus claim Divinity?

[johnd]

If (or since) Jesus is God from before there was ever an Earth or a Universe or an angelic host... he would be self assured about that fact. God is not an egomaniac as some think he is. He is God even if no one figures it out... or believes it... or bows the knee...

What's interesting is that no one questions the humanity of Jesus... which was the thrust of his claim. He claimed to be human far more often than he claimed to be God.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

There is no question that the Bible states God the Word became flesh and is therefore God and man (see also Philippians 2:6-8).

But the thrust of Jesus' claims was to assure humanity that in him we have a kinsman (a fellow human being) who otherwise would not have been able to be our sacrifice for sin. He showed that he is God by what he did with a few claims here and there. He claimed extensively to be human and showed it as well...

That in itself is an indication of his being something other than plain humanity. Think about it a moment. Who among us here would go to the trouble of assuring the rest that we are human? Why would we? There is no need to.

What am I Clark Kent?

See the point. Jesus by emphasizing his humanity has given us a foot print that he is also something other than human and the brunt of the Bible teaches that something is divinity.

 

[Hentenza]

Originally Posted by Hentenza

Jesus is indeed God.... Not
​

Wel, well Gary. Adding words to my post which you quoted is not very nice. My comment was Jesus is indeed God but you added "not" at the end. Not very nice indeed.

 

[Hentenza]

John 20:17-31






What a beautiful passage..... What should be the proper conclusion for this..... That Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God..... So anyone who conclude that Jesus is Almighty God and part of Trinity did not get the sense of it....

Mmmm...... I guess Thomas did not get it either.

Who did Thomas called "my Lord, my God" in verse 28?

 

[Disippelen]

Well spoken johnd.

 

[scriptures]

Mmmm...... I guess Thomas did not get it either.

Who did Thomas called "my Lord, my God" in verse 28?

Thomas did get it..... First century christians knew that Jesus was truly Christ ( that is anointed one of God) and not God Almighty himself nor part of Trinity....

 

[Gary51]

My comment was Jesus is indeed God but you added "not" at the end. Not very nice indeed.

But true!

 

[Disippelen]

Thomas did get it..... First century christians knew that Jesus was truly Christ ( that is anointed one of God) and not God Almighty himself nor part of Trinity....

Well, why then are there historical sources (also non-Christian ones) which say that early Christians claimed Christ to be God?


Disippelen

 

[yashualover]

If (or since) Jesus is God from before there was ever an Earth or a Universe or an angelic host... he would be self assured about that fact. God is not an egomaniac as some think he is. He is God even if no one figures it out... or believes it... or bows the knee...

What's interesting is that no one questions the humanity of Jesus... which was the thrust of his claim. He claimed to be human far more often than he claimed to be God.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

There is no question that the Bible states God the Word became flesh and is therefore God and man (see also Philippians 2:6-8).

But the thrust of Jesus' claims was to assure humanity that in him we have a kinsman (a fellow human being) who otherwise would not have been able to be our sacrifice for sin. He showed that he is God by what he did with a few claims here and there. He claimed extensively to be human and showed it as well...

That in itself is an indication of his being something other than plain humanity. Think about it a moment. Who among us here would go to the trouble of assuring the rest that we are human? Why would we? There is no need to.

What am I Clark Kent?

See the point. Jesus by emphasizing his humanity has given us a foot print that he is also something other than human and the brunt of the Bible teaches that something is divinity.

Amen! Very well said.

 

[Hentenza]

Thomas did get it..... First century christians knew that Jesus was truly Christ ( that is anointed one of God) and not God Almighty himself nor part of Trinity....

Interesting. How do you support your view?

The verse is straight forward with Thomas calling Jesus, my "Kurios" and my "Theos". In order for your view to be true, then Thomas would have to be wrong. Mmmm..... whom to believe.

 

[Hentenza]

But true!

LOL!!! Theology according to Gary!!!! Yep!! I am running to the bookstore to get a copy right now.

 

[Stinker]

Well, why then are there historical sources (also non-Christian ones) which say that early Christians claimed Christ to be God?


Disippelen

The Christians in the 1st century who were witnesses to the shroud (Mt.27:59) in which Jesus was resurrected from, sang of it. So they did believe He was who He had claimed He was during His ministy.


http://www.shroudofturin4journalists.com/pearl.htm

 

[scriptures]

Interesting. How do you support your view?

The verse is straight forward with Thomas calling Jesus, my "Kurios" and my "Theos". In order for your view to be true, then Thomas would have to be wrong. Mmmm..... whom to believe.

It's not my view, but the conclusion of John, that Jesus is Christ (the anointed one of God) and the son of God.....

So, Trinitarian interpretation of John 20:28 is not correct.....

 

[scriptures]

Well, why then are there historical sources (also non-Christian ones) which say that early Christians claimed Christ to be God?


Disippelen

What historical sources?

 

[Gary51]

LOL!!! Theology according to Gary!!!! Yep!! I am running to the bookstore to get a copy right now.

And only $9.99...

 

[Hentenza]

It's not my view, but the conclusion of John, that Jesus is Christ (the anointed one of God) and the son of God.....

So, Trinitarian interpretation of John 20:28 is not correct.....

John obviously considers Jesus to be God. Read John 1. It makes little sense for John to change his mind for just this one verse.:o

 

[Hentenza]

And only $9.99...

LOL!!! *Looking for that 50% off coupon*

 

[Zebra1552]

Did Jesus claim to be God?... No

Is Jesus God?... No

Is Jesus the Son of God?... Yes

So how do you reconcile that with the previously quoted verses in this thread? How do you explain Jesus' 'I am' statements and the Jews' desire to stone him on the spot after a few of them (John 8)?

 

[fil3232003]

What can we say when Satan told Jesus to worship him, and instead He told him the following?

• Mat 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

• Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

And here is what Apostle John wrote about Jesus:

• 1 Joh 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

 

[fil3232003]

Jesus was prophesied to speak in parables:

• Psa 78:2 I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:

Jesus did not speak plainly so that many people would understand Him. For what reason?

• Mar 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

• Mar 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Very clearly in order to separate the two classes of people listening to Him.

1. Those who lean unto their own understanding. Warning:

• Prov 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

2. The “babes and infants” in His sight:

• Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

• Isa 28:9 (KJV) Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

 

[Disippelen]

What historical sources?

Well, let me help you:

Firstly it is important to note that the four gospels of the Bible are the best sources we have for knowledge about Christ. Still there are some other fragmentary notes which may help us to establish who Jesus was, and one of them specifically points out that Christ was viewed as divine by his followers.


The Roman known as Pliny the Younger wrote to Emperor Traian about 112 AD that "Christians sing songs of praise to Christ as to a god".

The Jewish historian Josefus wrote about 90 AD that Jesus was called the Messiah (Antiquitates 20.200), and also that Christians believed Jesus to have lived a sinless life, that he died on the cross, that his followers had not quit believing in him and that they saw him alive three days after his death, and hence that he was thought to be the Messiah (Antiquitates 18.63-64).

Tacitus wrote in his Annals (15.44.4) that Christ was crucifed and that the Christians had a deadly superstition which was getting increasingly popular.


All these sources deal with Jesus as the crusifed Christ, and Pliny t.y. even claims that Christians viewed Christ as God.

So, yes, there are sources outside of the Bible which claim Jesus' divinity.


Best,
Disippelen