Did God predestine the Fall?

[dad]

No, that’s not correct. In fact, choice wasn’t even addressed in my post. Atonement of sin was.

It does no good to have a get out of jail free card we can't choose to actually use!

 

[Hammster]

How can you claim the people of all generations hearing God's word do not count at all?? Jesus even spelled it out that He had other sheep to come in the fold. We also see things 'written for the generation to come' etc etc.

Ps 102:18 - This shall be written for the generation to come: and the people which shall be created shall praise the LORD.

In Daniel some prophesies were sealed up for generations, so they were written for folks in the end time. Etc.

IT DOES NOT ANSWER THE SPECIFIC QUESTION I ASKED.

 

[Hammster]

It does no good to have a get out of jail free card we can't choose to actually use!

That’s what you equate the atonement too? Wow!

 

[dad]

IT DOES NOT ANSWER THE SPECIFIC QUESTION I ASKED.

Well it answers the elephant in the room question of the thread. Did man really have choice or was it pre arranged and set? The way you describe most men on earth as being sort of too bad or fallen in nature to be ABLE to choose to get saved, that is the impression we are left with.

 

[Hammster]

It does no good to have a get out of jail free card we can't choose to actually use!

Okay. So you don’t think I’m wrong, but that you are just confused. Maybe you should not post against me, then.

 

[Hammster]

Well it answers the elephant in the room question of the thread. Did man really have choice or was it pre arranged and set? The way you describe most men on earth as being sort of too bad or fallen in nature to be ABLE to choose to get saved, that is the impression we are left with.

Still not answering the question.

 

[dad]

That’s what you equate the atonement too? Wow!

Jesus asked some folks 'how can ye escape the damnation of hell?' He had already told us the way, simply believe on Him. The folks He was talking to had chosen not to. In your scenario, they never had the choice, right?

 

[dad]

Okay. So you don’t think I’m wrong, but that you are just confused. Maybe you should not post against me, then.

No, I think your position is confused and unclear. Like pulling teeth here.

 

[Hammster]

Jesus asked some folks 'how can ye escape the damnation of hell?' He had already told us the way, simply believe on Him. The folks He was talking to had chosen not to. In your scenario, they never had the choice, right?

Nope.

 

[dad]

Okay. So you don’t think I’m wrong, but that you are just confused. Maybe you should not post against me, then.

Whatever the question was it seems lost in the mists of time. The more important and topical questions loom large though.

 

[Hammster]

No, I think your position is confused and unclear. Like pulling teeth here.

Maybe if you’d address what I post and actually answer questions, we’d get somewhere.

 

[dad]

Nope.

OK, so does the 'nope' mean I am correct, and that you say they never had the choice? Just confirming to be clear.

 

[dad]

Maybe if you’d address what I post and actually answer questions, we’d get somewhere.

Funny, to get my clear case, no barrage of irrelevant trick questions are needed. But I think I have all I needed to know now, if we are clear that you claim most men have and never had and never will have any free choice to get saved. I am close to announcing victory here.

 

[Hammster]

OK, so does the 'nope' mean I am correct, and that you say they never had the choice? Just confirming to be clear.

In your scenario, they never had the choice, right?

No, that is not correct in my scenario.

 

[dad]

No, that is not correct in my scenario.

O brother, here we go again! OK, so do all men have the free choice to reject or accept salvation yes or no?

 

[Hammster]

Funny, to get my clear case, no barrage of irrelevant rick questions are needed. But I think I have all I needed to know now, if we are clear that you claim most men have and never had and never will have any free choice to get saved. I am close to announcing victory here.

They aren’t trick questions. But you’ll never know that because you are unwilling to answer directly.

 

[Hammster]

O brother, here we go again! OK, so do all men have the free choice to reject or accept salvation yes or no?

How many times do I need to answer this?

Yes, they do.

 

[dad]

How many times do I need to answer this?

Yes, they do.

No predestination then, OK. People go to hell because of their free will choice.

 

[ToBeLoved]

*sigh*

It doesn’t go against free will. I guess this addresses my post above.

If God is doing it, it is intervening.

If it is irresistible, than mankind is not able to resist.

Come on now.

These are not hard concepts

 

[Hammster]

No predestination then, OK. People go to hell because of their free will choice.

Yes. They are not predestined to hell.