Did fallen angels break our code?

d taylor

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2018
10,551
4,684
59
Mississippi
✟248,097.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
No obviously not. But are there any sources to support the view they survived as demons
The demons seem to have a connection to water and dry places.

And at once Jesus gave them permission. Then the unclean spirits went out and entered the swine (there were about two thousand); and the herd ran violently down the steep place into the sea, and drowned in the sea.
“When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, he goes through dry places, seeking rest, and finds none.
 
Upvote 0

Jipsah

Blood Drinker
Aug 17, 2005
12,294
3,677
70
Franklin, Tennessee
✟218,125.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Fables that are contrary to the laws of God (after it's kind), the very laws of nature itself, contrary to His character, contrary to common sense (450 foot Nephilim would have needed about a 200 lb baby, at the least), are simply better of left to those who do not believe in God.
Amen! And fables are precisely what we're talking about. "Enoch" is unquestionably simple fiction for the most part, and the rest is questionable. So they take that as a starting point, add to it modern concepts concepts like genetic engineering, whang it all together into one steaming pile, and peddle it as a newfound truth. I reckon I'll pass. Good grief, if Christians spent as much time studying the New Testament as they do claptrap like this we'd all be a lot better off.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: mmksparbud
Upvote 0

Jipsah

Blood Drinker
Aug 17, 2005
12,294
3,677
70
Franklin, Tennessee
✟218,125.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
The bible does not say that Nephilim were 450 feet high.
No, but "Enoch" does. It's full of... stuff like that. Arrant hogwash.

You need to separate your incredulity regarding Enoch from the bible account.
Most of the ridiculous fantasies about "nephilim" originate in "Enoch", and then are given a sci-fi backstory to make 'em sound better. Embroidered hogwash but still hogwash.

The word used for sons of God refers to angels elsewhere also. But the problem you have is that the overwhelming volume of contemporary texts understood this to be angels ,you do not honour God over men and fables here,you defy a consensus of biblical interpreters
No, I defy the nonsense served up by those who love mythic fantasies. The Bible gives no intimation at all that the "nephilim" were anything but "men of renown", not 450 foot tall giants. All the added stuff was made up.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: mmksparbud
Upvote 0

mmksparbud

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2011
17,312
6,821
73
Las Vegas
✟255,978.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
The bible does not say that Nephilim were 450 feet high. You need to separate your incredulity regarding Enoch from the bible account. The word used for sons of God refers to angels elsewhere also. But the problem you have is that the overwhelming volume of contemporary texts understood this to be angels ,you do not honour God over men and fables here,you defy a consensus of biblical interpreters

All this garbage comes from the book of Enoch which is not even in the Jewish cannon---for obvious reasons! It is not of God! The original actually reads they were 4,500 feet tall, and then they started saying that must be an error so brought it down to 450 ft tall---statue of liberty is 151 feet! This stuff in no way honors God!! It is against what Jesus also said. God refers to us throughout the OT as our Father and we as His children. The Targums clearly show that the Jews did not believe these were angels, but men of authority --probably Priests who married non believing women---which thing God always hated.
Job is telling about a heavenly conclave of representatives from other unfallen worlds and Satan came as the representative of this world for he acquired it at the fall. I do not care if I contradict so called bible interpreters!! I care about the unadulterated word of God as He spoke it and as Moses and the Hebrews understood it and not as modern man thinks it should read!!! There is abundant proof that these are not fallen angels mating with women, but people still prefer the made up fables of men---far more exciting for carnal minded folks. Satan will take anything that discredits God and takes the mind of people away from Jesus soon coming to waste time on stuff like this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jipsah
Upvote 0

Jipsah

Blood Drinker
Aug 17, 2005
12,294
3,677
70
Franklin, Tennessee
✟218,125.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
You will find a lot of documentaries on youtube about the bones of giants having been found in various digs in recent history.
And those "giants" were essentially tall people, not the monsters of Enoch.

One doc was full of newspaper clippings from respectable papers like the NY Times from the 1800 and 1900's featuring stories about these giants.
Notably in that period the Cardiff Giant, which was a notable fraud.
 
Upvote 0

Contenders Edge

Well-Known Member
Supporter
May 13, 2019
2,615
370
43
Hayfork
✟167,447.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
this is not so .... angels are a different kind of being and did not breed with humans ... in fact ... in the bible it is not mentioned anywhere that angels can procreate.

Angels are spiritual beings; therefore, it's not possible that they can produce offspring.

Nephilim were descendants of Seth ...

the "sons of God" are defined as the righteous line of Seth (Genesis 5) that disobeyed God and married women from the line of Cain. The women who married the line of Seth followed other gods and rejected full allegiance to God. The offspring, as a result, "fell away" and turned to the system of the world.

Genesis 6

4The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and afterward as well—when the sons of God had relations with the daughters of men. And they bore them children who became the mighty (strong) men of old, men of renown.

MEN ... not angels.


While the logic behind this argument is understandable, it lacks scriptural support since the sons of God are depicted as a class of beings that are not human.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

eleos1954

God is Love
Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,698
5,614
Utah
✟713,703.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
While the logic behind this argument is understandable, it lacks scriptural support since the sons of God are depicted as a class of beings that are not human.

The bible says the Nephilim were men .... mighty men .... not mighty angels ... therefore I'm going with what the bible says ..... men (mankind)

The bible teaches our deprived state is due to SIN beginning with Adam & Eve who were fully human and sin introduced into the human race due to their disobedience to God .... sin is not biological. Sin is transgression of the law .... requires a choice.

Lucifer and the 1/3 were cast out of heaven because they sinned .... Adam & Eve were cast out of Eden because they sinned ... disobeyed God. (choices)

Hebrews 2:16-18 New King James Version (NKJV)

16 For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham. 17 Therefore, in all things He had tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.

We are not the seed of angels or any hybrid thereof.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jipsah
Upvote 0

mmksparbud

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2011
17,312
6,821
73
Las Vegas
✟255,978.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
While the logic behind this argument is understandable, it lacks scriptural support since the sons of God are depicted as a class of beings that are not human.


Throughout the OT God refers to Himself as our Father and we as His children. With a little research you can see that for yourself.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: BobRyan
Upvote 0

Scott Husted

Well-Known Member
Apr 8, 2020
860
376
64
Virginia Beach
✟57,000.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Shortly before the flood Genesis and books like Enoch, that did not make it into the Protestant canon but are accepted by other Christian churches, mention an event that may have exacerbated the breakage in creation and in the human condition. Angels found ways to breed with humans and played with our DNA to produce giants and superheroes into human literature and culture and into the DNA pool. Many of these were wiped out but even after the flood there is the account in Joshua of Caleb taking on the giants of Hebron or in 1 Samuel 17 of David tackling Goliath.

Enoch is described in Genesis as one of only two men in the bible along with Elijah to never die and one who is supposed to have visited heaven and returned before he was finally taken up there. The book of Enoch did not make the Protestant canon but it is in the canon of other churches. It says it was written by Enoch but it was more probably written down after the flood having been shared from a preflood oral tradition which was not perfectly recalled, there are some big and obvious errors in it. It describes 200 angels led by Azaĺiel who were in part rebels from God and in part interested in promoting humanity at Gods expense. Basically the story echoes the account in Genesis of the Nephilim. The idea being that angels fiddled with human DNA breaking its original design and harmony further exaccerbating the effects of the fall.

So did angels break our code thus making us more vulnerable to plagues like that produced by Sars-Cov-2?
Makes you wonder why God created them in the first place ...
 
Upvote 0

Contenders Edge

Well-Known Member
Supporter
May 13, 2019
2,615
370
43
Hayfork
✟167,447.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
The bible says the Nephilim were men .... mighty men .... not mighty angels ... therefore I'm going with what the bible says ..... men (mankind)

The bible teaches our deprived state is due to SIN beginning with Adam & Eve who were fully human and sin introduced into the human race due to their disobedience to God .... sin is not biological. Sin is transgression of the law .... requires a choice.

Lucifer and the 1/3 were cast out of heaven because they sinned .... Adam & Eve were cast out of Eden because they sinned ... disobeyed God. (choices)

Hebrews 2:16-18 New King James Version (NKJV)

16 For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham. 17 Therefore, in all things He had tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.

We are not the seed of angels or any hybrid thereof.


The Nephilim were the result of this unholy union between the sons of God and the daughters of men and a class possessing abilities and attributes possessed by no other men but no one on either side of this debate is arguing that we are half men half angel (don't even know where you got that idea) but this perversion of God's creation which came from these unholy unions was one of the reasons God destroyed the world that once was with a flood.

And I hate to tell you this but the way the NKJV translates the cited passage from Hebrews is not how it was written in the original KJV. The NKJV makes that passage out to say that God does not aid His angels in completing their appointed tasks, whereas the KJV does not tell us anything like that but instead, tells us why Jesus became a man instead of an angel when He came to earth to redeem us from our sins, but any debate about which is the better translation of that passage would be a departure from the thread topic.
 
Upvote 0

Contenders Edge

Well-Known Member
Supporter
May 13, 2019
2,615
370
43
Hayfork
✟167,447.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Makes you wonder why God created them in the first place ...

Allowed them to be borne into existence is a more appropriate question. It is not something He did Himself and the same question could be asked of any evil and perversion that God permits to happen.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,118
10,509
Georgia
✟900,262.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Allowed them to be borne into existence is a more appropriate question. It is not something He did Himself and the same question could be asked of any evil and perversion that God permits to happen.

Angels were not "born" they were created. They have no family relationships - even within their own species.
 
Upvote 0

Contenders Edge

Well-Known Member
Supporter
May 13, 2019
2,615
370
43
Hayfork
✟167,447.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Throughout the OT God refers to Himself as our Father and we as His children. With a little research you can see that for yourself.


It must also be noted that the servants of God were not called "sons of God" until much later in the OT, but the title is clearly applied to angels as well as is made more evident in the book of Job. (Job 1:6, 2:1) These sons of God are contextually presented as being clearly a distinct race from mankind when first mentioned and in the book of Job. But whenever the servants of God are referred to as sons of or children of God, the scripture will always associate the title therewith but that is not contextually the case with Genesis chapter six, nor is it the case in Job.
 
Upvote 0

Contenders Edge

Well-Known Member
Supporter
May 13, 2019
2,615
370
43
Hayfork
✟167,447.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Angels were not "born" they were created. They have no family relationships - even within their own species.


I am afraid you may have misunderstood the post to which I was responding to. It was not in reference to angels but to the Nephilim which resulted in the unholy union between the fallen angels and the daughters of men, but if Scott Husted was referring to the angels, then it was my misunderstanding of what he meant, but he is the only one who can give clarification to his intended meaning either way.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

mmksparbud

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2011
17,312
6,821
73
Las Vegas
✟255,978.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
The Nephilim were the result of this unholy union between the sons of God and the daughters of men and a class possessing abilities and attributes possessed by no other men but no one on either side of this debate is arguing that we are half men half angel (don't even know where you got that idea) but this perversion of God's creation which came from these unholy unions was one of the reasons God destroyed the world that once was with a flood.

It must also be noted that the servants of God were not called "sons of God" until much later in the OT, but the title is clearly applied to angels as well as is made more evident in the book of Job. (Job 1:6, 2:1) These sons of God are clearly a distinct race from mankind. But whenever the servants of God are referred to as sons of or children of God, the scripture will always associate the title therewith but that is not contextually the case with Genesis chapter six, nor is it the case in Job.

And I hate to tell you this but the way the NKJV translates the cited passage from Hebrews is not how it was written in the original KJV. The NKJV makes that passage out to say that God does not aid His angels in completing their appointed tasks, whereas the KJV does not tell us anything like that but instead, tells us why Jesus became a man instead of an angel when He came to earth to redeem us from our sins, but any debate about which is the better translation of that passage would be a departure from the thread topic.


No, God is clear as to why He destroyed the world and it was
Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

They were evil, violent--nothing about half breeds! Nephilim were the offspring of men of God who married women who did not follow God. There were giants in those days--before and after---means just that---There were giants in those days! In other words--- Adam and Eve were not 5-6 feet tall!
It is also ho9w it was interpreted by the Jews as the Jewish targums from even right after the Babylonian exile prove. Angel half breeds are a ridiculous fantasy brought by the book of Enoch which is not even in the Jewish Canon. 450 feet giants makes them 3 times taller the statue of Liberty--no such thing and no way could any woman carry a baby that a creature that size would require! It is not biblical, does not make any sense nor does it follow the character of God.
 
Upvote 0

mmksparbud

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2011
17,312
6,821
73
Las Vegas
✟255,978.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
Makes you wonder why God created them in the first place ...


God did not create either the fallen angels nor did He allow any such thing as progeny by them. It is made up baloney from the book of Enoch, no basis in actual fact.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BobRyan
Upvote 0