Did fallen angels break our code?

[mindlight]

Shortly before the flood Genesis and books like Enoch, that did not make it into the Protestant canon but are accepted by other Christian churches, mention an event that may have exacerbated the breakage in creation and in the human condition. Angels found ways to breed with humans and played with our DNA to produce giants and superheroes into human literature and culture and into the DNA pool. Many of these were wiped out but even after the flood there is the account in Joshua of Caleb taking on the giants of Hebron or in 1 Samuel 17 of David tackling Goliath.

Enoch is described in Genesis as one of only two men in the bible along with Elijah to never die and one who is supposed to have visited heaven and returned before he was finally taken up there. The book of Enoch did not make the Protestant canon but it is in the canon of other churches. It says it was written by Enoch but it was more probably written down after the flood having been shared from a preflood oral tradition which was not perfectly recalled, there are some big and obvious errors in it. It describes 200 angels led by Azaĺiel who were in part rebels from God and in part interested in promoting humanity at Gods expense. Basically the story echoes the account in Genesis of the Nephilim. The idea being that angels fiddled with human DNA breaking its original design and harmony further exaccerbating the effects of the fall.

So did angels break our code thus making us more vulnerable to plagues like that produced by Sars-Cov-2?

 

[DebbieJ]

Heb 13:2 Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it.
--

If angels can transform themselves into a human being, then, they can procreate with humans. My 2 cents.

 

[mindlight]

Heb 13:2 Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it.
--

If angels can transform themselves into a human being, then, they can procreate with humans. My 2 cents.

Yes agreed and also being generally smarter than us and with the more privileged access they have to God they may well have more insight on our designs but without being at the level of efficiency of the Creator themselves

 

[DebbieJ]

Just like the fallen angel (serpent) who was able to talk with Eve. Eve saw a human being and was able to converse.

 

[solid_core]

Shortly before the flood Genesis and books like Enoch, that did not make it into the Protestant canon but are accepted by other Christian churches

Actually, the book of Enoch is not part in the Bible of any wider church, neither orthodox nor roman catholic nor protestant.

Only one, local church in Ethiopia in Africa has it as part of their canon.

 

[eleos1954]

Shortly before the flood Genesis and books like Enoch, that did not make it into the Protestant canon but are accepted by other Christian churches, mention an event that may have exacerbated the breakage in creation and in the human condition. Angels found ways to breed with humans and played with our DNA to produce giants and superheroes into human literature and culture and into the DNA pool. Many of these were wiped out but even after the flood there is the account in Joshua of Caleb taking on the giants of Hebron or in 1 Samuel 17 of David tackling Goliath.

Enoch is described in Genesis as one of only two men in the bible along with Elijah to never die and one who is supposed to have visited heaven and returned before he was finally taken up there. The book of Enoch did not make the Protestant canon but it is in the canon of other churches. It says it was written by Enoch but it was more probably written down after the flood having been shared from a preflood oral tradition which was not perfectly recalled, there are some big and obvious errors in it. It describes 200 angels led by Azaĺiel who were in part rebels from God and in part interested in promoting humanity at Gods expense. Basically the story echoes the account in Genesis of the Nephilim. The idea being that angels fiddled with human DNA breaking its original design and harmony further exaccerbating the effects of the fall.

So did angels break our code thus making us more vulnerable to plagues like that produced by Sars-Cov-2?

Angels found ways to breed with humans and played with our DNA to produce giants and superheroes into human literature and culture and into the DNA pool

this is not so .... angels are a different kind of being and did not breed with humans ... in fact ... in the bible it is not mentioned anywhere that angels can procreate.

Angels are spiritual beings; therefore, it's not possible that they can produce offspring.

Nephilim were descendants of Seth ...

the "sons of God" are defined as the righteous line of Seth (Genesis 5) that disobeyed God and married women from the line of Cain. The women who married the line of Seth followed other gods and rejected full allegiance to God. The offspring, as a result, "fell away" and turned to the system of the world.

Genesis 6

4The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and afterward as well—when the sons of God had relations with the daughters of men. And they bore them children who became the mighty (strong) men of old, men of renown.

MEN ... not angels.

 

[Andrewn]

books like Enoch, that did not make it into the Protestant canon but are accepted by other Christian churches,

This is false. The Book of Enoch is only accepted in the Church of Ethiopia. No other Christian denomination accepts it: not Greek Orthodox, not Roman Catholics, not Protestants, and not Credobaptists.

Angels found ways to breed with humans and played with our DNA to produce giants and superheroes into human literature and culture and into the DNA pool. Many of these were wiped out but even after the flood there is the account in Joshua of Caleb taking on the giants of Hebron or in 1 Samuel 17 of David tackling Goliath.

This is also false. There is another thread discussing Gen 6 that you may want to read / participate in.

[MOVED] The Nephilim Anchor Yale

 

[com7fy8]

there are some big and obvious errors in it.

And therefore it can not be Canon. But ones might accept it as some sort of a source.

So did angels break our code thus making us more vulnerable to plagues like that produced by Sars-Cov-2?

One of the main results of the fall of Adam and Eve is how people can not obey God. They are not disciplined so they can follow His instructions.

And this could be the main or a major reason why COVID-19 has spread so easily > because people have not developed in having discipline to follow instructions; and so now many can not follow instructions about how to take care of ourselves so we do not get or spread the SARS-CoV-2 virus!! And we see how certain people have medically abused themselves, so now they are unhealthy enough to be killed by the disease . . . because of their preconditions which their wrong way of living has helped to cause them to have.

So, physical genes, even if they are part of the problem, are possibly not our main problem, then.

 

[mindlight]

Just like the fallen angel (serpent) who was able to talk with Eve. Eve saw a human being and was able to converse.

Well Satan was an Archangel. Do not know if they are a higher species but definitely seem more powerful. But if Enoch is to be believed the angels that fell and were involved in the whole Nephilim experiments with human DNA were lesser angels.

 

[mindlight]

Actually, the book of Enoch is not part in the Bible of any wider church, neither orthodox nor roman catholic nor protestant.

Only one, local church in Ethiopia in Africa has it as part of their canon.

True only the Ethiopians include it in the canon. It is quoted from in Jude and Tertullian was a fan but I accept the reasons for it not being included in the canon. That said I do believe it is a useful resource and especially lending some context to how we should look at the Nephilim verses in Genesis. Effectively it excludes attempts to rationalise the angelic component away

 

[mindlight]

this is not so .... angels are a different kind of being and did not breed with humans ... in fact ... in the bible it is not mentioned anywhere that angels can procreate.

Angels are spiritual beings; therefore, it's not possible that they can produce offspring.

Nephilim were descendants of Seth ...

the "sons of God" are defined as the righteous line of Seth (Genesis 5) that disobeyed God and married women from the line of Cain. The women who married the line of Seth followed other gods and rejected full allegiance to God. The offspring, as a result, "fell away" and turned to the system of the world.

Genesis 6

4The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and afterward as well—when the sons of God had relations with the daughters of men. And they bore them children who became the mighty (strong) men of old, men of renown.

MEN ... not angels.

Yes that is the line that people follow who want to rationalise the implications of this verse away. But Enoch provides some context as to how this verse should be read even if it is not itself canonical.

 

[mindlight]

This is also false. There is another thread discussing Gen 6 that you may want to read / participate in.

[MOVED] The Nephilim Anchor Yale

That thread seems to have a different focus, though I was not aware of it before, thanks for pointing it out. The OP clearly disagrees with your interpretation of the Genesis verses on the Nephilim. My focus is on the damage that this angelic fiddling has caused humanity. The attempts at giantism and enhanced human abilities were clearly not in accordance with Gods original design, hence the flood. It appears that God was especially worried that they might lengthen their lifespans without addressing the fundamental issue of sin. Clearly this was a factor in the sending of the flood. It appears that the flood also did not wipe out all these efforts as they reoccur in the case of the giants of Hebron and the case of Goliath for instance.

 

[Andrewn]

The OP clearly disagrees with your interpretation of the Genesis verses on the Nephilim. My focus is on the damage that this angelic fiddling has caused humanity.

Right. The "sons of god" are believed by some to be bad angels who married good girls and gave birth to nephilim (I'll call this view #A) and by others, me included, to be good men who married bad girls (I'll call this view #B). You subscribe to the first view and I will not get into arguments against it bec they have been addressed in the other thread.

The attempts at giantism and enhanced human abilities were clearly not in accordance with Gods original design, hence the flood.

You don't believe that advanced knowledge / science is part of God's plan?

It appears that God was especially worried that they might lengthen their lifespans without addressing the fundamental issue of sin. Clearly this was a factor in the sending of the flood.

I agree.

It appears that the flood also did not wipe out all these efforts as they reoccur in the case of the giants of Hebron and the case of Goliath for instance.

Good observation. In view #A, that you subscribe to, the nephilim are considered angel-human offspring. These presumably died in the Flood. How do we get nephilim after the Flood?

The Flood clearly didn't wipe out sinfulness from human nature. People started sinning again after the Flood. So, what did the Flood accomplish?

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

No, if you follow the narrative of the Book of Enoch, then Noah's lineage was unaffected (his patrilineal descent is listed all the way back to Adam. The angels were male forms who married female humans. Therefore, descent from one of these relationships would not leave an unbroken lineage back to Adam through the fathers' side). Not only that, but the fallen angels have been imprisoned ever since, which means that this deed has not been repeated.

 

[Jipsah]

Shortly before the flood Genesis and books like Enoch, that did not make it into the Protestant canon but are accepted by other Christian churches, mention an event that may have exacerbated the breakage in creation and in the human condition. Angels found ways to breed with humans and played with our DNA to produce giants and superheroes into human literature and culture and into the DNA pool.

"Enoch is mostly hogwash, and it doesn't speak of dNA in any case. That is simply eisegesis from a writing that is untrustworthy to begin with.

So did angels break our code thus making us more vulnerable to plagues like that produced by Sars-Cov-2?

Why? Old reliable Y-Pestis (aka Black Plague) is far worse than any of the corona strains. So was Spanish flu, by orders of magnitude. As plagues go, Covid 19 is pretty lame. If that's the worst we ever have to deal with then we're in good shape.

 

[mmksparbud]

Shortly before the flood Genesis and books like Enoch, that did not make it into the Protestant canon but are accepted by other Christian churches, mention an event that may have exacerbated the breakage in creation and in the human condition. Angels found ways to breed with humans and played with our DNA to produce giants and superheroes into human literature and culture and into the DNA pool. Many of these were wiped out but even after the flood there is the account in Joshua of Caleb taking on the giants of Hebron or in 1 Samuel 17 of David tackling Goliath.

Enoch is described in Genesis as one of only two men in the bible along with Elijah to never die and one who is supposed to have visited heaven and returned before he was finally taken up there. The book of Enoch did not make the Protestant canon but it is in the canon of other churches. It says it was written by Enoch but it was more probably written down after the flood having been shared from a preflood oral tradition which was not perfectly recalled, there are some big and obvious errors in it. It describes 200 angels led by Azaĺiel who were in part rebels from God and in part interested in promoting humanity at Gods expense. Basically the story echoes the account in Genesis of the Nephilim. The idea being that angels fiddled with human DNA breaking its original design and harmony further exaccerbating the effects of the fall.

So did angels break our code thus making us more vulnerable to plagues like that produced by Sars-Cov-2?

This is baloney not actually taught or believed by the Hebrew writers of the bible!! It is men who were in authority, such a religious leaders, Priests, even, who went against God by marrying women who were not followers of God. There were no half angel have human beings! God has always hated marriage between believers and non-believers. Angels are not our kind! We were created lower than the angels, Jesus became lower than the angels to become human. God gave a command--"after their kind." We can not produce non-human babies!
This idea assumes many things, chief of which is that angels, whom Jesus says can not marry, meaning they have no sex, even have the genatalia and actual sperm that is compatible to human DNA for that to happen! It can't!! God said it can't! It assumes that God actually made angels with the required "equipment" and DNA to mate with us, it assumes that "There were giants in those days" means that these were outside of normal beings instead of just what it says---There were giants in those days and also afterwards. Nothing in the bible says a thing about the height of Adam and Eve. They assume them to be of normal modern day man and that therefore those giants were something not human!!---All assumptions and all wrong! Adam and Eve were created perfect in every way, perfect brains, perfect bodies. They were not 5-6 feet tall---they were created very tall. That trait was passed on by genetics to all their offspring. It came through with Noah and his family and dwindled along with how long they lived after the flood. There were pockets of those traits when people were scattered--handed down to Goliath and his people, to the very tall today.
Just like as in the very short---the very tall are not products of angels and humans---it is genetics! And all of it human. God stated why He destroyed the earth in the flood. Only Noah followed Him, all others were violent, evil. They used their magnificent intelligence for nothing but evil. Nothing to do with blood lines at any time!

 

[Mountainmanbob]

If angels can transform themselves into a human being, then, they can procreate with humans. My 2 cents.

Seems the fallen angels in the bible did not transform into humans?

Usually the first thing a good angel says is, do not be afraid. Thus, the on looker knew they were not looking at a human.
M

 

[HARK!]

Actually, the book of Enoch is not part in the Bible of any wider church, neither orthodox nor roman catholic nor protestant.

Only one, local church in Ethiopia in Africa has it as part of their canon.

Well apparently it was a very popular read before there was any official, post temple, canon.

Who decides the canon? Do rightful temple priests get a say? How about John the baptist? Does his opinion count?

Here are some of the numbers for the scrolls found at Qumran:

Book Number found
Psalms 39
Deuteronomy 33
1 Enoch 25
Genesis 24
Isaiah 22
Jubilees 21
Exodus 18
Leviticus 17
Numbers 11
Minor Prophets 10[note 1]
Daniel 8
Jeremiah 6
Ezekiel 6
Job 6
Tobit 5[note 2]
1 & 2 Kings 4
1 & 2 Samuel 4
Judges 4[515]
Song of Songs (Canticles) 4
Ruth 4
Lamentations 4
Sirach 3
Ecclesiastes 2
Joshua 2

More popular than Genesis.

 

[BobRyan]

Shortly before the flood Genesis and books like Enoch, that did not make it into the Protestant canon but are accepted by other Christian churches, mention an event that may have exacerbated the breakage in creation and in the human condition. Angels found ways to breed with humans

In Matt 22 Jesus said Angels do not have the biology/function to form family relationships even within their own species - let alone with other species.

Genesis 6 does not mention angels or demons at all.

No Bible text refers to demons as "sons of God"

And the so-called book of Enoch is not even a Hebrew book it is only found in Greek and may have also existed in an Aramaic form that was used by Jews in Israel at the time of Rome.

it was written after the Hebrew Bible not before it.

=====================


4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

Here the text very specifically tells us that the giants are not the result of the "sons of God marrying the daughters of men" -- because the giants where there BEFORE that - AND ALSO - after that.

The commingling of the people of God with the heathen around them via marriage did not give rise to the "giant" state of mankind - it was already there before that... and afterwards.

In fact Noah was also giant and that is why you have Nephilim before and after the flood - Noah's entire family was Nepihlim.

 

[mindlight]

You don't believe that advanced knowledge / science is part of God's plan?

Of course and genetic engineering could help restore Gods original patterns if we can learn how to identify the original intended code for each person. But the angels went beyond Gods design for selfish reasons and thereby broke its harmony and coherence for at least three reasons

1) To enable themselves to breed with humans
2) creating larger than life offspring
3) the engineering of superhuman abilities

I believe this interference undermined long term human health and functionality rather than enhanced it.

Good observation. In view #A, that you subscribe to, the nephilim are considered angel-human offspring. These presumably died in the Flood. How do we get nephilim after the Flood?

The Flood clearly didn't wipe out sinfulness from human nature. People started sinning again after the Flood. So, what did the Flood accomplish?

There were more than 200 fallen angels from heaven and maybe not all angels fell at the same time. If pre flood fallers were sent to prison then we may be talking about post flood fallers. But the flood wiped out a wickedness from both men and angels that had deeply transformed and perverted the mainstream of human society