• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.

Did fallen angels break our code?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by mindlight, Jun 6, 2020.

  1. Andrewn

    Andrewn Well-Known Member CF Ambassadors Supporter

    +2,630
    Canada
    Anglican
    Married
    I am on your side of the debate but Noah was not necessarily a Nephilim. Nephilim genes could have survived the Flood in one of his son's wives.

    This discussion has been going in circles with 2 camps entrenched in their positions. So, perhaps realizing that Nephilim are also called by other names in the Bible may provide new data to discuss. One of the most commonly used names for these giants is Rephaim.

    "In the Hebrew Bible, "Rephaites" or "Rephaim" can describe an ancient race of giants in Iron Age Israel, or the places where these individuals were thought to have lived. According to Genesis 14:5, King Chedorlaomer and his allies attacked and defeated the Rephaites at Ashteroth-Karnaim. Rephaites are also mentioned at Genesis 15:20; Deuteronomy 2:10-21, 3:11; the Book of Joshua (Joshua 12:4, 13:12, 15:8, 17:15, 18:16); the Books of Samuel (2 Samuel 5:18–22, 23:13); and the Books of Chronicles (1 Chronicles 11:15, 14:9 and 20:4)."

    Rephaite - Wikipedia

    GIANTS - JewishEncyclopedia.com

    The second article is especially useful.
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

    +6,098
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    True - but if God's purpose in the flood was to destroy Nephilim then that one slipped passed him to the point of flooding the post-flood world with it.

    If the issue is having families with aliens from space, and Noah or his sons marry into such a family - seems like 'not righteous' in the eyes of God.

    True - you find them in several places in the OT after the flood - and never connected with the "sons of God" after the flood.

    Another reason for the solution that all mankind were of the giant variety before the flood just as they all were of the "long-lives" variety.

    But AFTER the flood both the long-life and the tall stature feature begins to fizzle out with the result that some groups lived longer than others and some were taller than others until it completely fizzles.

    That gives rise to the idea of "tall races" and also "longer lived races"

     
  3. Contenders Edge

    Contenders Edge Well-Known Member Supporter

    +351
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others

    There was no consensus amongst the Jews as to who the Nephilim. Some of them believed them to be as you say and others believed them to be a race of giants that were spawned from demonic activity though they were called men, they were not ordinary men but men with unusual abilities and attributes that other people did not have which enabled them to become "the heroes of old and the men of renown" that they were called.
     
  4. Scott Husted

    Scott Husted Well-Known Member

    860
    +368
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    You don't believe God created them? Or that God did not know what they would do?
     
  5. Scott Husted

    Scott Husted Well-Known Member

    860
    +368
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    So God didnt know what they would do after he created them?
     
  6. Scott Husted

    Scott Husted Well-Known Member

    860
    +368
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    No doubt ...
     
  7. Contenders Edge

    Contenders Edge Well-Known Member Supporter

    +351
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others

    That depends on whether you were referring to the angels or the Nephilim.
     
  8. Andrewn

    Andrewn Well-Known Member CF Ambassadors Supporter

    +2,630
    Canada
    Anglican
    Married
    Why do we assume that God's purpose in the flood was to destroy Nephilim? They were heroes, people of renown. Sure, some of them were bad but, like other people, some were good.

    You previously said that Noah himself was Nephilim! (Was his wife also Nephilim?) What I'm saying is that only 17% of the people after the Flood could have had Nephilim genes.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
  9. Scott Husted

    Scott Husted Well-Known Member

    860
    +368
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    It's not so much about whether he did or didn't but whether he knew what they would do beforehand or not ...

    The Nephilim are still around after the flood so what they speak to spiritual, or for us inwardly is as truth relating to our soul.
     
  10. Scott Husted

    Scott Husted Well-Known Member

    860
    +368
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    Assumption doeth not a truth make ...
     
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

    +6,098
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    Well I don't assume that - I was just thinking that those who think they are children born to half-human half-alien-from-space hybrids were thinking that this is the final straw that caused the flood.

    If mankind were made Nephilim from Adam on - then for sure the purpose of the flood was not to destroy Nephilim since Noah would be one.

    If it was just a "peculiar human feature" of some humans vs others at the time of the flood -- then for certain Noah's family had to have had it to carry it over to the other side of the flood.

    So then one of the possibilities is as you say - that just some people had that natural human trait for "giant". But it seems to me that "Nephilim" sounds like a race. The human race in my thinking but -- as you say maybe just a "trait" that some had.

    Still the "trait" of long lived life spans in Genesis 6 appears to apply to all the relatives of Noah including Adam so it is very likely that all of Cain's descendants also had it -- and I suspect that is true of the large size as well going from Adam down to Noah. (Adam who did have direct access to the tree of life for some period of time - by contrast to all others). The degeneration principle you see in human generations in the book of Genesis - as they get farther and farther from Adam - probably applied to height as well as long-life spans.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
  12. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

    +6,098
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    Sure he knew that eventually some of the angels would choose rebellion just as he knew that eventually Adam would join them. He knows the complete picture ahead of time.
     
  13. Scott Husted

    Scott Husted Well-Known Member

    860
    +368
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    Then there is a reason relative to the mystery hid from the beginning concerning what these things spiritually depict in conjunction to where this mystery opens in, or God would have never created them or us to begin with.
     
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

    +6,098
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    Jewish tradition can be sketchy -

     
  15. Contenders Edge

    Contenders Edge Well-Known Member Supporter

    +351
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others

    The angels or the Nephilim? As for the Nephilim, they have nothing to say to us anymore; insofar as anyone can tell, they are dead and gone.
     
  16. Contenders Edge

    Contenders Edge Well-Known Member Supporter

    +351
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others

    Bear in mind that may be according to Jewish tradition, but we do not get that from the scriptures; not even from the Old Testament. Even Jesus challenged and rebuked many of the Jewish traditions of His day.
     
  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

    +6,098
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    Agreed ... my point is that the tradition is not always a reliable source.
     
  18. Contenders Edge

    Contenders Edge Well-Known Member Supporter

    +351
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
    Sounds like we both understand each other on that point.
     
  19. Scott Husted

    Scott Husted Well-Known Member

    860
    +368
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    What was symbolism then is symbolism now in relationship to the same purpose of God now no longer hid. Whether it be an ark covered without & within with pitch, a Tabernacle dyed the color Adam, angels ,or the sons of God and the daughters of men.
     
  20. Contenders Edge

    Contenders Edge Well-Known Member Supporter

    +351
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others

    Only none of those things listed were ever presented in a symbolic context but instead were presented as things that actually existed and still exist; angels being among that which still exist.
     
Loading...