Did all the laws end at the cross- Part 2

Ligurian

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Your post here is unresponsive to the posts and the scriptures you are quoting from and do not address any of the posts or scripture content and contexts that disagree with your teachings. [...] According to Jesus the Words of God we accept or reject will become our judge come judgement day *see John 12:47-48.

I don't call myself Teacher, Rabbi, Master, or Father... so if you're looking for "teachings"... I'm not your guy.

Regarding "*see John 12"... I can hardly have helped seeing John 12:44-50... since I've posted it at least a dozen times... even directly at you... about which we had a looong discussion.
IF THE LAW OF MOSES WAS SET ASIDE , WHY ROM 13:9?
I don't believe that God's vengeance about verse, which is twin to Deuteronomy 18:18-19... will happen when or why you think.

The Gospel of the Kingdom came from the Father: Deuteronomy 18:18-19 [18] I will raise up to them a prophet of their brethren like thee, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them as I shall Command Him.[19] And whatever man shall not hearken to whatsoever words that Prophet shall speak in My name, I will take vengeance on him.LXX

John 5:44-47 [43] I am come in My Father's name, and ye receive Me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

John 8:26 I have many things to say and to judge of you, but He that sent Me is true, and I speak to the world those things which I have heard from Him.

John 12:44-50 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on Me, believeth not on Me but on Him that sent Me.[49] For I have not spoken from Myself: but the Father which sent Me, He gave Me a Commandment, what I should say and what I should speak.[50] And I know that His Commandment is Life Everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak.

John 14:24 He that loveth Me not keepeth not My words, and the word which ye hear is not Mine but the Father's which sent Me.[31] But that the world may know that I love the Father, and as the Father gave Me Commandment, even so, I do. Arise, let us go hence.

John 15:10 If ye keep My Commandments ye shall abide in My love, even as I have kept My Father's Commandments and abide in His love.

John 17:6-8 I have manifested thy name unto the men which Thou gavest Me out of the world: Thine they were, and Thou gavest them Me; and they have kept Thy word.[7] Now they have known that all things whatsoever Thou hast given Me are of Thee.[8] For I have given unto them the words which Thou gavest Me: and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from Thee, and they have believed that Thou didst send Me.

May you receive God's correction through His Word and be blessed ignoring it will not make it disappear according to the scriptures. According to Jesus the Words of God we accept or reject will become our judge come judgement day *see John 12:47-48. I hope only the best for you Lig. Take your time and review the scriptures and the context provided in the linked posts above that are in disagreement with your claims and teachings here that have only been shared in love and as a help for you. If your unable to respond to the content of the linked posts and scriptures provided above perhaps you can pray about what is being shared with you?
Only if you're holding the Lamb's Book of Life are you qualified to tell any human for what they should pray.
Otherwise, it's patronizing.
And if you really hoped the best for me, you'd lose the nickname, because I've already asked you not to use it. As it is, I find you... unresponsive.

Come to Me, all who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.

Also, Jesus rises on the first day of a new week and initiates new creation - you would be hard pressed to deny that "new creation" is a major Pauline theme. Well, just as Jesus's sacrifice makes animal sacrifices obsolete, so it is also the case that Jesus's initiation of a new creation makes celebrating the "old" creation obsolete as well.

The only people who needed rest from heavy burdens were those under the Law given by Moses, and then strengthened for a people who were hard-hearted. People don't seem to notice all of the times in the OT that the Father was testing the Israelites. The Prophets speak against the sacrifices given by sinful people.
The Atonement is 6 months away from Passover. ...Jesus is the Passover Lamb.

Nope. . .

Ezekiel 34:1-31 [12] As the shepherd seeks his flock, in the day when there is darkness and cloud, in the midst of the sheep that are separated: so will I seek out My sheep, and will bring them back from every place where they were scattered in the day of cloud and darkness.[30] And they shall know that I am the Lord their God, and they My people. O house of Israel, saith the Lord God,[31] ye are My sheep, even the sheep of My flock, and I am the Lord your God, saith the Lord God.LXX

The kingdom is still divided: The house of Judah is not the house of Israel. Hosea 1:6-10 = 1 Peter 2:10 = the House of Israel, the 10-lost-tribes.

The "other sheep" of the 10-lost-tribes are the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.

Matthew 10:5-7 [5] These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:[6] But go rather to the Lost Sheep of the house of Israel.[7] And as ye go, preach, saying, The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

Matthew 15:24 But He answered and said, I am not sent but unto the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.

Who sent Jesus? The Father. So, the Father sent Jesus to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel. Was this ever going to change? Nope. Because "all things whatsoever I have commanded you", includes Matthew 10:5-7.

Matthew 28:16-20 Then The Eleven Disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.[17] And when they saw Him, they worshipped Him, but some doubted.[18] And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto Me in Heaven and in Earth.[19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.[20] teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Again, the same body-temple analogy mentioned in a different thread. Who are "one of these little ones" the Master speaks of multiple times in the Gospel accounts? If you ignore the man-made chapter breaks even Eleazar-Lazarus is "one of these little ones". Are you therefore a sheep or a porter?

It's all there in the Testimony, O porter. : )

?body-temple analogy? Only Jesus is the temple of the Holy Spirit, according to the Gospel of the Kingdom... as far as I know. But Lazarus is definitely "one of these little ones"...Resurrection of Life. I'm one of those "other sheep" that Jesus must bring with the same Gospel of the Kingdom that He taught to His fold... His Disciples of Galilee.
 
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Clare73

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Ezekiel 34:1-31 [12] As the shepherd seeks his flock, in the day when there is darkness and cloud, in the midst of the sheep that are separated: so will I seek out My sheep, and will bring them back from every place where they were scattered in the day of cloud and darkness.[30] And they shall know that I am the Lord their God, and they My people. O house of Israel, saith the Lord God,[31] ye are My sheep, even the sheep of My flock, and I am the Lord your God, saith the Lord God.LXX
Jesus speaks of "other" sheep than Jews; i.e., the Gentiles
 
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Ligurian

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Jesus speaks of "other" sheep than Jews; i.e., the Gentiles
https://www.christianforums.com/bible/matthew/10:5-7/
Not in the synoptic gospels, He doesn't... and certainly not in John.

The House of Judah(Jews) is the southern part of the divided kingdom.
The House of Israel is the northern part of the divided kingdom.

Hosea 1:6-10 And she conceived again and bore a daughter. And He said to him, Call her name, Unpitied: for I will no more have mercy on the house of Israel, but will surely set Myself in array against them. 7 But I will have mercy on the house of Juda, and will save them by the Lord their God, and will not save them with bow, nor with sword, nor by war, nor by horses, nor by horsemen. 8 And she weaned Unpitied, and she conceived again and bore a son. 9 And he said, Call his name, Not My people: for ye are not My people, and I am not your God. 10 Yet the number of the children of Israel was as the sand of the sea, which shall not be measured nor numbered: and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said to them, Ye are not My people, even they shall be called the sons of the living God.(Osee,LXX)

In the place where it was said to them

Matthew 4:12-20 Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, He departed into Galilee.[13] And leaving Nazareth, He came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim,[14] that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,[15] The land of Zabulon and the land of Nephthalim, [by] the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the nations:[16] The people which sat in darkness saw great light, and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.[17] From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

Hosea 1:6-10 fulfilled

(1 Peter 1:1) 1 Peter 2:9-10 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of Him who hath called you out of darkness into His marvellous light: 10 Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

_____________________________
I've posted this at least a half-dozen times now. And still, they keep calling the 10-lost-tribes "Jews"... which they're not. If they can't even keep the 12 tribes separate, they won't keep the different gospels separate, either.
 
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daq

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?body-temple analogy? Only Jesus is the temple of the Holy Spirit, according to the Gospel of the Kingdom... as far as I know. But Lazarus is definitely "one of these little ones"...Resurrection of Life. I'm one of those "other sheep" that Jesus must bring with the same Gospel of the Kingdom that He taught to His fold... His Disciples of Galilee.

Does the following passage contain the Gospel of the Kingdom according to your understanding?

Mark 13:31-37 KJV
31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

And in this true Gospel the porter is the one who guards the door, and watches, and tests the spirits: for the wise porter will only open the door unto the Master.

John 10:1-3 KJV
1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

If you imagine yourself not to be a porter but a sheep then who is watching the door of your house-body-temple?

1 John 4:1, 2 John 1:8-11.
 
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expos4ever

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The only people who needed rest from heavy burdens were those under the Law given by Moses,
Indeed. Are you suggesting that Jesus is not the fulfillment / replacement for the Sabbath?

It sure seems like He is. Or is it a coincidence that He tells Jews to come to Him for rest when "rest" is precisely what the Sabbath is all about?
 
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Ligurian

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Does the following passage contain the Gospel of the Kingdom according to your understanding?

Mark 13:31-37 KJV
31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

And in this true Gospel the porter is the one who guards the door, and watches, and tests the spirits: for the wise porter will only open the door unto the Master.

John 10:1-3 KJV
1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

If you imagine yourself not to be a porter but a sheep then who is watching the door of your house-body-temple?

1 John 4:1, 2 John 1:8-11.

Mark wasn't with Jesus from the beginning.
(John 15:26-27, Matthew 10:2-7, John 17:20)

Daniel 4:10-13 I beheld in the night vision upon my bed, and behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven and cried aloud, and thus he said,LXX

"a watcher" and "an holy one" is a parallelism... they both mean the same thing. These are the angels of God... not fallen angels.

That body-temple... Paul's mystery... gentiles' gospel.
 
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daq

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Mark wasn't with Jesus from the beginning.
(John 15:26-27, Matthew 10:2-7, John 17:20)

So the Gospel called Mark doesn't count?

Daniel 4:10 I beheld in the night vision upon my bed, and behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven and cried aloud, and thus he said,LXX

"a watcher" and "an holy one" is a parallelism... they both mean the same thing. These are the angels of God... not fallen angels

All seven holy Watchers have the Holy One because they speak the Word and the Word is within them. But what does this have to do with what we were discussing?

That body-temple... Paul's mystery... gentiles' gospel.

The body-temple analogies begin in the Torah, continue through the Prophets and Writings, and the whole matter is finalized and expounded in the Gospel accounts and apostolic writings. There is a mountain of scripture evidence behind these things.
 
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Ligurian

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Indeed. Are you suggesting that Jesus is not the fulfillment / replacement for the Sabbath?

It sure seems like He is. Or is it a coincidence that He tells Jews to come to Him for rest when "rest" is precisely what the Sabbath is all about?

(1) the Sabbath Rest

Psalms 95:8 To-day, if ye will hear His voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, according to the day of irritation in the wilderness: 9 where your fathers tempted Me, proved Me, and saw My works. 10 Forty years was I grieved with this generation, and said, They do always err in their heart, and they have not known My ways. 11 So I sware in My wrath, They shall not enter into My rest.LXX ... This is from David.

The Sabbath rest offered by the Father is the Promised Land. And they didn't enter His rest, because they remained in the wilderness until they died... but their children inherited the Promised Land after them... so, it's to them that David is speaking the above Psalm... they are the genetic-children of those Israelites coming out of the Egyptian bondage.

Matthew 24:20 says the Sabbath exists during the great tribulation.

(2) The House of Judah(aka Jews) is Judah, Benjamin and Levi.

The Kingdom Is Still Divided

Jesus didn't tell the Jews to come to Him for rest... because they tried to kill Him (John 8:37). "His own [tribe] received Him not." (John 1:11)

The Father sent Jesus "only unto the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel"(Matthew 15:24).

But the House of Israel in Galilee received Him, because at least 11 Disciples kept the Father's Commandments (John 17:6), which Jesus spoke to them (John 12:49-50), and at least two of those men passed these Commandments on to the "other sheep" (John 10:16) who will believe on Jesus through "their word"(John 17:20): meaning the testimony (John 15:26-27) of the Eleven Galilean Disciples (Matthew 28:16-20).
 
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Ligurian

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Mark wasn't with Jesus from the beginning.
(John 15:26-27, Matthew 10:2-7, John 17:20)

Daniel 4:10 I beheld in the night vision upon my bed, and behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven and cried aloud, and thus he said,LXX

"a watcher" and "an holy one" is a parallelism... they both mean the same thing. These are the angels of God... not fallen angels.

That body-temple... Paul's mystery... gentiles' gospel.

But what does this have to do with what we were discussing?

The Gospel of the Kingdom is what I thought we were discussing. Guess not.
 
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daq

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The Gospel of the Kingdom is what I thought we were discussing. Guess not.

The Kingdom of God is within you, Luke 17:20-21. Therefore likewise the seven holy Watchers are related.

Matthew 18:6-14 KJV
6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.
14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

The careless porter neglects the sheep, and they are lost, and the Master of the house will be their Avenger when he comes.
 
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Ligurian

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The Gospel of the Kingdom is what I thought we were discussing. Guess not.

The Kingdom of God is within you, Luke 17:20-21. Therefore likewise the seven holy Watchers are related.

Matthew 18:6-14 KJV

The careless porter neglects the sheep, and they are lost, and the Master of the house will be their Avenger when he comes.

Matthew 18:6-7 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in Me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and [that] he were drowned in the depth of the sea.[7] Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
skandalizo = to entrap, i.e. trip up (figuratively, stumble (transitively) or entice to sin, apostasy or displeasure):--(make to) offend.
Matthew 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
Revelation 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
 
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daq

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Without love, there is nothing.
1 Corinthians 13:1-13

All else is a distraction.

Love for who?

John 1:1-3 KJV
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Genesis 2:1-3 KJV
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
 
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daq

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So God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it but people want to see an actual N/T commandment to honor it before they will do so: but, of course, they still love Him, regardless, and we know it is true because we keep hearing them say it on the internet, and of course, everything on the internet is true. :D
 
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Leaf473

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So God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it but people want to see an actual N/T commandment to honor it before they will do so: but, of course, they still love Him, regardless, and we know it is true because we keep hearing them say it on the internet, and of course, everything on the internet is true. :D
I hear what you're saying.

Myself, I'm fine interpreting the Sabbath "using Jesus' examples, parables, proverbs, idioms, sayings, and so on", as we talked about earlier.

I'm probably going to be away from my phone for a few days. Peace be with you all!
 
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BobRyan

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I think it’s important to note that God separated His laws from the very beginning. Many want to lump all laws and commandments as one, when God did not. This is an important distinction because once we get to the New Testament we see what exactly ended when Christ became our sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins we won’t make the mistake of claiming “all laws” ended, when they did not.

.

true.

1 Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

Eph 6:1 "Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 "Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), 3 so that it may be well with you, and that you may live long on the earth.

first one with a promise in that "unit of ten" found in Ex 20.

James 2:8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

It says "is guilty" not "was guilty before the cross happened". So good point about the TEN SB.
 
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Leaf473

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true.

1 Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

Eph 6:1 "Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 "Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), 3 so that it may be well with you, and that you may live long on the earth.

first one with a promise in that "unit of ten" found in Ex 20.

James 2:8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

It says "is guilty" not "was guilty before the cross happened". So good point about the TEN SB.
James talks about keeping the entire law except for a single point. It's the same as breaking the entire law. True, isn't it?
 
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BobRyan

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James talks about keeping the entire law except for a single point. It's the same as breaking the entire law. True, isn't it?

In context James is not making the point of the form "go ahead and take God's name in vain -- since I am sure you will do at least something wrong at some point... no worries ... pay no attention, why live as if you will be judged by such a law?"

If there is a way to bend-wrench the following into the statement I just wrote above -- please let me know.

James 2:8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.
 
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