Description of Heaven

[Avid]

Is the separation assumed judgement in and of itself? Does a goat choose to be a goat? A sheep chooses to be a sheep?

There are several uses for the word heaven as we find it translated through the Hebrew and Greek texts.

Heaven can be referred to as the sky or space
Heaven can be the place where God and angels dwells and is referred to as God's Throne
Bible suggests that there are multiple levels of Heaven
The Gospels make many references to the Kingdom of Heaven, and parables are told about it
Light, rain, and wind can come from heaven
God builds the elect a home in heaven

What I dont find are the details about what heaven actually looks like...or feels like. I think the blending of the physical heavens (sky) and Heaven (where God is) gives us the contemporary puffy cloud - golden gate mentality and visualization. What I don't find is any evidence of this in Scripture. The word heaven must be taken into context, because it can have different meanings when used referring to either physical or spiritual things.

It means so much to me to read this. I think you may be starting to get my point in all this. NOW, we can discuss what is written. (I've been itching to say some of these things...)

What about the Stones of Fire? Have not had ANYONE tell me about that at all. (Already mentioned the Sea of Glass.)

What about the Sides of the North? Have not EVER had someone include that in the description of God's abode, throne room, Heaven, or ANYTHING having to do with this THIRD HEAVEN as discussed by the Apostle Paul.

STREETS OF GOLD? EVERYONE who has ever said more than a few words about Heaven has said this, which is actually part of a description of New Jerusalem.
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[Alithis]

Issue is that we often / always hear the description of New Jerusalem, a city that will come down from the New Heaven onto the New Earth some time in the future, but not the description of Heaven, God's abode. Just wondering if ANYONE has read any of these scriptures! I hear of people doing extensive reading, but why never see the description of Heaven in the Bible?


YES, Absolutely the description of a city, that great City, the holy city, New Jerusalem that will come down out of the New Heaven onto the New Earth after the day of restitution of all things.


Don't have a problem with anything you are accusing me of here, as I plead guilty on all accounts. Drug addled people may imagine they have sat on a cloud... Spoke to one who walked up to our pastor and me outside of Church one day. Bus stop is across the street. He had all kinds of ideas of floating on clouds, etc.

Our pastor has mentioned many times of wicked people talking about being on the Operating Table, and seeing a bright light. He told them, "I saw it too! It illuminated the area they were cutting into your body, so doctors and surgeons could see what they were doing!"


Well you see, we have the word of Prophets and Apostles that seems to be judged as unworthy to even be read by almost everyone I have discussed these things with.

WHY would anyone say there are streets of Gold in Heaven (Bible does not say there are,) but they haven't mentioned the sea of Glass, clear as crystal, mingled with fire, of which there are a number of references?
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so .what , in your view .. is heaven and its description?

 

[Avid]

... You wish to use only scripture..then your purception will be limited to the letter therin.
If you refuse further testimony of those that have seen... that does not automatically make their
Testimony false ...it justs makes you an individual who refuses their testimony.

You have prejudged the references i suggested you read... which is rather a poor basis upon which to judge anything.

Here is my basis of refusing to waste time reading someone's idea of what Heaven is. It is simply because you told me about the book, and NEVER said ANYTHING about...

• The Sea of Glass
• The Stones of Fire
• The Sides of the North
• Any of the other SCRIPTURAL descriptions we have...

Clear to me that you did not read a book about Heaven. The person said that is what it's about, but had neither been there, nor seen it, nor even read in the Bible a few descriptions of things there...

It is easy to refuse that kind of thing. We are discussing a very austere place that is (as mentioned early in the thread) the seat of the most high God, is the scene of a perpetual and continual worship of God, and the place where Angels present themselves before God, to make report of their activity, make suggestions to God, and to get instructions for missions to be completed.

That is what Heaven is. It is a place made for God, and NOT a place made for man. The Third Heaven is where God's throne is. It has been mentioned by Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Isaiah, and some of the other prophets. Some description of it impart the idea of a VERY AUSTERE place of extreme reverence to God, constant worship of God the Father, and the seat of His government.

If you began saying it is where weather patterns are formed, we would have a place to begin a discussion. We could discuss that if the atmosphere of the earth is the first Heaven (described in Genesis and other times after,) we could have a stepping off point to discuss what else is up there!

If you said it was a place where Satan has dominion as the god of this world (he being the prince of the power of the air,) we could begin discussion of how that came to be, what it means for humans like us, and what will happen concerning that in the future. That may lead us into discussing if that includes a Second Heaven that I don't think is described in the Bible. That would get us talking about the Third Heaven eventually, and we can make certain distinctions as found in scripture.

Not sure why no one is interested in a description this place, seeing almost every worldly person, and churchgoer alike, makes reference to Heaven when talking about departed loved ones, or blessings that come from an Unknown Source!
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[Alithis]

Here is my basis of refusing to waste time reading someone's idea of what Heaven is. It is simply because you told me about the book, and NEVER said ANYTHING about...

• The Sea of Glass
• The Stones of Fire
• The Sides of the North
• Any of the other SCRIPTURAL descriptions we have...

Clear to me that you did not read a book about Heaven. The person said that is what it's about, but had neither been there, nor seen it, nor even read in the Bible a few descriptions of things there...

It is easy to refuse that kind of thing. We are discussing a very austere place that is (as mentioned early in the thread) the seat of the most high God, is the scene of a perpetual and continual worship of God, and the place where Angels present themselves before God, to make report of their activity, make suggestions to God, and to get instructions for missions to be completed.

That is what Heaven is. It is a place made for God, and NOT a place made for man. The Third Heaven is where God's throne is. It has been mentioned by Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Isaiah, and some of the other prophets. Some description of it impart the idea of a VERY AUSTERE place of extreme reverence to God, constant worship of God the Father, and the seat of His government.

If you began saying it is where weather patterns are formed, we would have a place to begin a discussion. We could discuss that if the atmosphere of the earth is the first Heaven (described in Genesis and other times after,) we could have a stepping off point to discuss what else is up there!

If you said it was a place where Satan has dominion as the god of this world (he being the prince of the power of the air,) we could begin discussion of how that came to be, what it means for humans like us, and what will happen concerning that in the future. That may lead us into discussing if that includes a Second Heaven that I don't think is described in the Bible. That would get us talking about the Third Heaven eventually, and we can make certain distinctions as found in scripture.

Not sure why no one is interested in a description this place, seeing almost every worldly person, and churchgoer alike, makes reference to Heaven when talking about departed loved ones, or blessings that come from an Unknown Source!
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i must laugh... your stating what a book you never read,says ?
well it is correct you've not read it because your assumptions are all wrong.
the young lady who relates the event was medically diagnosed to be in an unresponsive uninterruptible state of trance while at the same time in perfect health.
by the power of God she was translated into the presence of God and during that time her body lay for 9 days.
upon her return she testifies ..in perfect harmony with the bible of some of the wonders of being in the realms of God and of the reverence glory and harmony of all there ,of the pitiful state of the fallen world and the wonders of the grace of God displayed in our lord Jesus,the adoration of all redeemed and holy beings.

i must therefore hold her account and description in far higher regard then our present musings..
for you speak of how you presently perceive things might be.
where as she speaks-in perfect harmony with the holy scriptures- that which she has seen and heard.

 

[skypair]

Is the separation assumed judgement in and of itself? Does a goat choose to be a goat? A sheep chooses to be a sheep?

Usually religions teach it like that .. that we will all be gathered and the believers go to heaven and the unbelievers to hell. But this is not what happens. We know that the NT saints will be raptured out .. we know that the OT saints will be resurrected into Jesus kingdom of 1000 years leaving OT unbelievers in their graves. Also when Jesus comes back, the living tares will be taken out and cast into hell. So it turns out that the judgment seats, even the great white throne, are for reward or loss regarding works.

What I dont find are the details about what heaven actually looks like...or feels like. ... What I don't find is any evidence of this in Scripture. The word heaven must be taken into context, because it can have different meanings when used referring to either physical or spiritual things.

In my previous post, I noted that Heb 12:22-24 tells us what it looks like when we die (although Paul didn't know whether he went there as dead or raptured, 2Cor 12:2,4. Rev 6:9-12 is another picture of the just dead arriving in heaven. Rev 4-5 show us heaven — well, the throne of God in New Jerusalem — after we are raptured there pretrib.

skypair

 

[Avid]

i must laugh... your stating what a book you never read,says ?

Actually, no I'm not. I am stating that you DID NOT STATE anything that the book said that described Heaven according to any scripture. Having the original intent of the Original Post, we could have gotten to that a long while back.

The Bible says enough, and that is our authoritative source. Even now, I am not getting anyone who seems interested in what the Bible actually states. Do you think you could put down that other book for a few minutes, and see what does the Bible actually say?

This is not intended to examine what your Mom said, or what your Sunday School teacher said, not even what your Pastor said! It is intended to examine what the Bible says.
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[Alithis]

Actually, no I'm not. I am stating that you DID NOT STATE anything that the book said that described Heaven according to any scripture. Having the original intent of the Original Post, we could have gotten to that a long while back.

The Bible says enough, and that is our authoritative source. Even now, I am not getting anyone who seems interested in what the Bible actually states. Do you think you could put down that other book for a few minutes, and see what does the Bible actually say?

This is not intended to examine what your Mom said, or what your Sunday School teacher said, not even what your Pastor said! It is intended to examine what the Bible says.
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the scriptures ,being an inerrant source, validate the testimonies of others.if it didnt i would discount them. the testimonies expound it more ..increasing the view we have thus far.
however..
The Sea of Glass... what is it do you think
The Stones of Fire..?

The Sides of the North... i thought was a reference to the northern face of jerusalem,both picturesque and secure in sight depicting splendor and security .

 

[Avid]

The Sea of Glass... what is it do you think

The court of God's Throne Room. It may be considered a Foyer. This is where innumerable angels assemble to report to God. This is where there will be an innumerable gathering of those who God has saved from the ages. These verse speak of a time when a certain assembly of that number will be gathered. It seems to me there will be a specific honor attached to the martyred saints in this assembly.

Revelation 4
2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
6 And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.

Revelation 15
1 ¶ And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.
4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.
5 ¶ And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:
6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.
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The Stones of Fire..?

Ezekiel 28
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
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The Sides of the North... i thought was a reference to the northern face of jerusalem,both picturesque and secure in sight depicting splendor and security .

There is a reference to a place there like that. Why is it you did not know that there is something in God's Heaven like that?

Isaiah 14
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

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There is more, and it is this that seems as if no one likes to consider. Heaven is God's abode. It was made for Him, and for His purpose. People like to think of it as something made to honor and please them!
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