• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.

Description of Heaven

Discussion in 'Baptists' started by Avid, Sep 27, 2014.

  1. Avid

    Avid A Pilgrim and a Sojourner...

    +659
    Baptist
    Married
    No one I know has given an accurate description of Heaven. I am not talking about what is said to be happening a thousand, or million, or billion years from now. That is typically what is described as Heaven. That may be called the Eternal State. That means, what will it be like for us in eternity after the restitution of all things.

    Acts 3
    21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
    What is Heaven like now?
    .
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. 1watchman

    1watchman Overseer Supporter

    +1,016
    Christian
    Married
    I suggest you ask that question at biblecounsel.net site, which will talk to you about what the Bible teaches.
     
  3. twin1954

    twin1954 Baptist by the Bible

    +1,460
    Calvinist
    Married
    Heaven is to be in the presence of Christ. 2Cor. 5:8 That is all I need.
     
  4. 1watchman

    1watchman Overseer Supporter

    +1,016
    Christian
    Married
    Good answer, Twin.
     
  5. Avid

    Avid A Pilgrim and a Sojourner...

    +659
    Baptist
    Married
    I wanted to discuss this here, so people could consider the scriptures instead of the opinion of preachers and teachers.

    People think the streets of Heaven are paved with Gold. I know of no scripture that says that. We might start a discussion there.
    .
     
  6. twin1954

    twin1954 Baptist by the Bible

    +1,460
    Calvinist
    Married
    This is probably where that comes from.
    And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
    (Rev 21:21)
     
  7. twin1954

    twin1954 Baptist by the Bible

    +1,460
    Calvinist
    Married
    Most folks want to go to Heaven because of the mansions and streets of gold and the paradise it is but the fact is that most wouldn't like it if they were to get there. Heaven is an eternal worship service. We will spend eternity wondering with awe at the glory of God in Christ. We will spend eternity gazing on His majesty and praising His great name. Those who don't want to do that now will not enjoy it then.
     
  8. Avid

    Avid A Pilgrim and a Sojourner...

    +659
    Baptist
    Married
    That is a description of the great city, New Jerusalem. It will be a city that is approximately 1,500 miles long, wide and high. That will come down from the New Heaven to the New Earth after the restitution of all things. That will be after the Great White Throne Judgment.

    Before the Great White Throne Judgment, an angel from Heaven will come down, stand on the land and the sea, and declare that Time shall be no longer. If we were marking time, it could take untold billions of years for every thought, word and deed of EVERY person standing before the LORD to be judged in that judgment.

    If a person has a few seconds of inattention, or poor judgment, and causes a bad accident, lawyers and courts will spend many hours preparing and trying the case. How long can we expect to be occupied with that judgment? Included in that somewhere, the saints will judge the angels. If we marked time as we do now, it may be trillions of years. This is certainly not an instantaneous process, seeing that righteous Abel has been waiting for thousands of years for God's justice to be rendered in the case of his being murdered by his brother.

    I am trying to get people to think of what the scriptures describe as Heaven, the abode of God, mentioned and described to some degree numerous places in scripture, and NOT ever being confused with New Jerusalem.
    .
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2014
  9. Avid

    Avid A Pilgrim and a Sojourner...

    +659
    Baptist
    Married
    Exactly what I was getting at. That very aspect got my attention many years ago, and I had to admit as much to myself and to God. It was THEN that He could begin teaching me, as I was ready to see how unfit for Heaven I really was!

    There are regular meetings in God's court where the angels report to the Almighty of what is done, and where the Almighty God even asks for suggestions of how to deal with certain things transpiring here.
    .
     
  10. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

    +2,133
    New Zealand
    Christian
    Married
    heaven

    is harmonious .

    perhaps you don't yet realize it ,but your attempting to define the indefinable.
    your attempting to confine the limitlessness of God to the boundaries of comprehension.

    the problem with that is ..." Its bigger on the inside"
     
  11. Avid

    Avid A Pilgrim and a Sojourner...

    +659
    Baptist
    Married
    Not true at all. Only scriptural things are any value here. Not trying to get the platitudes we hear. Though someone may like fishing, it is silly to say, "I wonder if they have fishing in Heaven?"

    Not try to do anything like what you are stating here, but trying to get people away from describing Heaven, the abode of God, as if it were the great city, New Jerusalem, that will not be revealed till LONG into the future. There are descriptions in scripture. Those are largely ignored, and man's ideas are used in place of them.

    Man thinks (even most Christian people) that Heaven is a place designed and built to glorify them for the small sacrifices they made in their life on Earth. If that is not abundantly obvious, look at the scripture passage you chose. God has prepared things for those that LOVE HIM. That does not mean Heaven was designed and built to glorify them. It is the abode of God.

    Look at the many Hymns written about leaving this life. They usually describe New Jerusalem. That is a place designed for the LORD Jesus Christ and His chosen ones from humanity. We/they will enjoy that place throughout eternity in the area named "the promised land," but only after the restitution of ALL THINGS. That means the Judgments will be completely accomplished, and the New Heaven and New Earth will be already in existence.

    BTW, the very passage you chose states that the natural man has not had such wonderful things enter his heart, but that God has revealed them to US: that is Paul, the Apostles, and the followers of Jesus Christ, by His Holy Spirit. Your assertion that these are not known because man has not perceived them is inaccurate. They are not known to natural man. This because they have not been SEEN, HEARD nor have they ENTERED THEIR HEARTS, because that is how the natural man learns and understands. They do not have God's mnd or Spirit.

    I Corinthians 2
    9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
    10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

    11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
    12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

    13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
    14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
    16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.


    This is a spiritual matter. It is understood spiritually by spiritual people. The idea presented earlier that this is an eternal worship service is described in Revelation 4:8-11

    Revelation 4
    8 ¶ And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
    9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,
    10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
    11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.


    It will be interesting to see scripture that supports your assertion here. I had not heard this before. I hope you will stick with the discussion.
    .
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2014
  12. Avid

    Avid A Pilgrim and a Sojourner...

    +659
    Baptist
    Married
    Truly was interested in discussing this with you. Mention was made in an earlier post of an eternal worship service. Spiritual beasts worship a Spiritual God in a spiritual place that is partially described in the scriptures.

    There is a great city that will descend out of the New Heaven onto the New Earth. That happens after the day of restitution of all things. The description of that city is in the 21st chapter of the Revelation, and its dimensions are approximately 1,500 miles long, 1,500 miles wide and 1,500 miles high. That is not Heaven. That is New Jerusalem.

    Maybe you can tell me why people think that is Heaven. Jesus said he went to prepare a place for us. If this is what He is preparing, that place will be on the New Earth in the future. What about NOW?

    There are descriptions of heaven that describe a very austere place where angels come to stand before God the Father, and report to Him, or to get orders from Him of what to do. They are ministering spirits. They minister to God the Father, and to any to whom the Father sends them for such work.

    That place is described in scripture though not to a full measure. It is not a city with gates of pearl, and walls of jasper. There is nothing that states the streets of Heaven are paved with Gold, but we hear it often. As a hint of what I mean, there is a sea of glass, like unto crystal, mingled with fire. It is THERE we will stand with harps of God, if we are victorious over the the devil and all his efforts to destroy us. Sounds like a rather important place for a very SPIRITUAL event...
    .
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2014
  13. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

    +2,133
    New Zealand
    Christian
    Married
    ok.. i think i see what your saying..
    its not something i presently view as all that important as far as the need to individually comprehend it .
    heaven- is a very encompassing term.
    and scripture does say clearly that its not even imagined of what God has prepared.. so the many glimpses we have (some in depth and profound in revelation ) are still but murky glimpses .i think "heaven" will be an everlasting discovery"

    to enjoy more insights and glimpses may i suggest and strongly recommend the book .. Scenes beyond the grave. Trance of Marietta Davis
     
  14. Avid

    Avid A Pilgrim and a Sojourner...

    +659
    Baptist
    Married
    "But God has revealed these things to us by His Spirit:" (I Corinthians 2:10a)

    The encompassing part is what I am trying to get you to shun, because it is simply and specifically the abode of God. God the Father sits upon His throne there, and will continue to do that eternally. We seek to be included with Christ for eternity in that holy city, New Jerusalem that was made for Him and for those who are with Him. (I Thessalonians 4:17)

    YES, murky glimpses because it was not our own eyes, but the eyes of others that saw Heaven (Apostle Paul, Apostle John, etc.) Some things were not lawful to be told, and that leaves a murky view. YES, Heaven is a place we know little about, but we know it is not a great city that is 1,500 miles long, wide and high (foursquare: 12,000 furlongs in each direction. Rev.21:16)

    This is not scripture. This bears little impact on what this thread is about.

    Everywhere, we hear platitudes concerning the Bride, and streets of Gold, and many thoughts of being in Heaven forever. This only seems to CLOUD the truth. If we are included by the LORD, our eternal state will be in that holy city, New Jerusalem. It will sit on the New Earth, in the geographic location of the promised land.

    This is only true for those who the LORD has with Him there. Some people differ on who is included there, so I leave it up for discussion, if that is all people will discuss here. The obvious thing, in obedience to our LORD, is that we encourage people to take the admonitions of scripture seriously, and avoid platitudes about things not found in scripture.

    YourDictionary.com
    Platitude is a remark in speech or writing that is overused and has no originality.

    MacMillanDictionary.com
    something that has been said so often that it is not interesting anymore and shows a lack of imagination.

    These are not spiritual things being stated. These are opinions not supported by Bible scripture. Scriptural references can be considered valid if not taken out of their proper context to prove something that is against the dictates of scripture.
    .
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2014
  15. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

    +2,133
    New Zealand
    Christian
    Married
    yes.. God has revealed these things to us by His Spirit... but not yet All,not even close.its also written that we have only a measure,a portion.a down payment.
    .we cannot contain an eternity of knowing in our carnal minds. it will take an eternity to know the eternal God .we have an origin in him and in him we gain everlasting life.. but he has no beginning and no end

    -and the book referenced is not scripture,as you say,but gives great insight into the "abode" of God.. which is not a place outside of time and space ..somewhere out there thats bigger then the material world,but rather a limitless place of spiritual existence inside ,where all external creation emanates from .
    -im not speaking absolutes here but only conversing concepts.-
    consider the invite "into" the governmental (kingdom) of God..
    he never invites us to leave and go out there to him ,but the invite is "into" him.
    the spiritual is larger on the inside then the created can ever be.God dwells ,by his spirit,in us .
    jesus said..In my fathers house (place of abode) are many mansions(large places of abode.. so as he abides in us so we do and shall everlastingly abide "in" him...
    and to enter into that most holy and limitless spiritual abode we must pass through the veil of flesh into the spiritual and eternal realms.. that veil was torn open for us to enter in THROUGH Jesus our lord and savior. his flesh was torn that we might go IN ,through that torn opening,to the abode of the eternal and one true living God.thus he refers to himself as "the way" in.. the Door..

    there are others ways into the inner limitless spiritual realm but they are forbidden and sin..they are the ways over walls by wolves and liars and cheats.there is only one acceptable way in."no man comes to the father but "through" me-Jesus .

    so heaven, the abode of God, is limitless and we are to abide in him who abides in us.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 7, 2014
  16. Avid

    Avid A Pilgrim and a Sojourner...

    +659
    Baptist
    Married
    It is true that we are not there, and we have not actually seen these things, but the way this passage is so often quoted OMITS the very next verse, that starts with BUT. That is a U-Turn. Don't ignore it.
    Beware of this "Carnal Mind" stuff. If you are still carnal (anyone who reads this,) and you do not understand the truth because it is spiritually discerned, you (anyone who reads this) have much to be concerned about...

    It is likely you are talking about the "Finite Mind." We have a limited understanding. We must trust the LORD for this:
    I Corinthians 2
    16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
    If we trust the LORD, and He can trust us with understanding, it is amazing what He can reveal to our hearts that helps us understand His word. Though it was not ME that was taken into the third Heaven (that was the Apostle Paul,) God can reveal the truth of the scriptures to my heart by His Holy Spirit. The carnal mind has no concept of this because these things are spiritually discerned, and the carnal mind has no ability in that realm.
    Really do not know what you are getting at, where it originated and what the value would be.

    The abode of God, the Third Heaven, may be limitless, and I do not have difficulty with that. The world has terminology, and in their terminology, that is in a different dimension. The spiritual is not the same as what we see. We have enough to know it is an austere place where reverence to God is continual. The carnal mind has difficulty with THAT concept.

    They may like this "Inside - Outside" stuff, but the idea of a continual and eternal worship of God the Father is beyond their ability to comprehend. They think Heaven is a place to honor them, to coddle them, to reward them! They don't see it as a place to worship God. Any time they preferred Fishing to Church, they would skip Church, and hope no one gave them grief about it. Any time they thought a carnal exercise was preferable to Temperance, they would indulge the lusts, and call it what ever placates the ego.

    The LORD Jesus made a way for Man to be reconciled with God the Father. As we are ushered into His presence, we are there because our hearts wish to worship Him continually. You may look at this life as a testing ground, to see who will be submitted to God, and who will refuse anything that does not honor their own SELF.
    There is truth in the matter of Jesus having prepared a place in the abode of God to accommodate humans that are not really suited for such a place. That is very true. However, we are not ever promised that we will be in the abode of God the Father forever. The scriptures state plainly that we will for ever be with the LORD Jesus Christ. After the restitution of all things, Those He chooses will be with Him eternally in that holy city, New Jerusalem. It will be placed on the New Earth, having come down from the New Heaven.

    Yes, this does refer to what I just said above. We have an entrance into the spiritual realm that was forbidden to us before because the way to be in God's presence was eliminated when Adam sinned.

    Our entrance into the abode of God is by the way that Jesus Christ made for us. It is a spiritual realm, indeed, and we are only able to enter as we are ushered there by angels at the bidding of our LORD. If anyone thinks he is a more powerful being because he is dead, and has passed from this life, that person is likely in some sort of fantasy. If we are ANYTHING other than a REJECT, it is because of what our LORD Jesus Christ has done, and what He will do for us.
    This is also true. Man has sought to dabble with the spiritual realm (what may be considered the Second Heaven,) but that realm is inhabited by the wicked spirits that are enemies of God and of our souls. We are not to play around with that world. Anyone who would do so invites the worst type of trouble, and are against God in their efforts.
    We may abide in the LORD Jesus Christ, as our Savior, and it is in Him, and by the Holy Spirit of God that we have anything. We must make choices, good or bad, right or wrong, but it is the power of God in Jesus Christ that gives us any hope of abiding in Him, and He in Us.

    Jesus Christ is ALL in ALL. He is everything, and what we are discussing is something made by Him and for Him. The whole of Creation is here because it pleases the Godhead to honor the LORD Jesus Christ. He made it, and it is for Him.
    Colossians 1
    16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
    Here is where we are often led astray. We think that God is intent on honoring us, so His abode must be a place that is designed and built for us to enjoy the benefits and rewards from God. We are only there if we are there to Honor God, and to Worship Him.
    .
     
  17. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

    +2,133
    New Zealand
    Christian
    Married
    i would add the all encompassing presence of God and his Holy spirit -in whom we live and move and have our being..
    as someone else alluded to..
    Heaven- is-the presence of God in us and us in him .to abide is a constant state of being.

    a state which we,here have only glimpsed in comparison.

    and to know what i refer to ..you should read the book i linked to.:) one cant form an honest opinion of something like that without first reading it.i highly recommend it.
     
  18. Avid

    Avid A Pilgrim and a Sojourner...

    +659
    Baptist
    Married
    Your description is not a description of Heaven, but of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit of God in the hearts of believers in Jesus Christ as LORD of all. One of the main reasons for this thread is to expose that people use the term, "Heaven," when they talk of the concept of "Eternal Bliss." Here we have the description of God's indwelling of His chosen people by His Holy Spirit as if it were Heaven. Guidance and comfort, but not Heaven, the place where God the Father makes His abode.

    John 16
    7 ¶ Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
    8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
    9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
    10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
    11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
    12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
    13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
    14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
    15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
    When the disciples of Jesus Christ enjoyed the presence of God with us, in the person of Jesus Christ, they could imagine nothing so good as that. They were sad that He would leave, but He told them that sending the Holy Spirit of God as our Comforter was better for them. They did not understand, because nothing like that was ever done.

    Matthew 1
    23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
    The Holy Spirit of God is the Comforter of all the people who Jesus saves while they live in this Earth. As we receive the indwelling of God's Holy Spirit in our hearts, we have HERE ON THIS EARTH the things you describe. Earlier, you stated that we don't presently have all the LORD promised, but "... we have only a measure,a portion.a down payment." This is what you speak of when saying that: God's Holy Spirit dwelling in the hearts of the believers in Jesus Christ while they live in this present evil world.

    Romans 8
    11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
    I John 3
    24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

    I John 4
    12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
    13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
    14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
    15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
    Heaven is where God the Father is, and where He sits on His throne. Now, there is a man in Heaven. This glorified human man (Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of the Father) sits on the throne with His Father, at the right hand of God the Father.

    Isaiah 66
    1 ¶ Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

    Acts 7
    49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

    Hebrews 10
    12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
    13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
    14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
    15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
    16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
    17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
    .
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2014
  19. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

    +2,133
    New Zealand
    Christian
    Married
    im not sure what your point is...

    The lord Jesus is the speaking of God that became flesh,died, is resurrected and returned to God from whence he came..

    not mere mortal now. he is in the father..where he originated from..
    your playing with perceptions..but no two human perceptions will be alike.so your never going to gain or lose .

    earlier i said he has given us a measure..as in a measure of revelation..and that alone is,as you say,spiritually discerned.
    heaven is an abode within God who is limitless.an abiding in him where he abides.
    us in him and he in us...
    it is grasped only by faith and beyond our comprehension.
     
  20. Avid

    Avid A Pilgrim and a Sojourner...

    +659
    Baptist
    Married
    The point is that God's Holy Spirit is NOT Heaven. That is Comfort to the believer. It is the Spirt of Truth dwelling in the heart of a believer in Jesus Christ, not a place where the God Father sits upon His Throne.

    This is NOT playing, and the issue of it being one person's perception versus another's, only means I am comparing the perceptions of those who penned the scriptures with those who do not consider that record when forming opinions of who God is, and what & where Heaven is.

    You are describing the Holy Spirit of God dwelling here, as shown in scripture passages in my earlier post. The place of God's abode is described to some degree by the few in scripture that saw it. The issue is that Heaven (specifically the third Heaven as described by the Apostle Paul,) is a place, and not just a concept, not just a feeling, not simply the great, holy city, New Jerusalem, not anything other than the Throne of God.

    There is nothing that describes its bounds, so we are not to think it is limited, but that is just something we do not know. To make it limitless in the way of saying ANYTHING you like or desire can be called Heaven is NOT what the thread is about. This is about dispelling error about the abode of God the Father, His Throne.

    The abode of God the Father is a spiritual place in a spiritual realm that is not accessible to mere mortal humans. As you stated, Jesus Christ is no longer in the form of mortal human flesh. As a man walking in the Earth, He was flesh and blood as we are, and His body was subject to death. In His glorified body, He is described as flesh and bones. His body did not see corruption, because it was not dead long enough.


    There is no mention of the LORD having blood at that point, because it was all sacrificed on the cross of Calvary, and is now the atonement for sin. This is the reconciling of Man to God. Another thread might deal with that in depth.

    Luke 24
    39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

    Ephesians 5
    30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

    Acts 13
    34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
    35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
    36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
    37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.


    I Corinthians 15
    50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

    The Apostle Paul had been a Christian, and had been baptized, and had God's Holy Spirit dwelling in his heart for approximately 10 or 11 years when he was stoned at Lystra, and thought to be dead. It was approximately 25 years to the point where he wrote of this event in the Second Letter to the Church at Corinth. There he said that, above 14 years ago, I knew a man that was caught up to the third heaven.

    In the recollection of the Apostle Paul, one of the very few people to actually see the place of God's abode, this Heaven was UP from where he was. God calls Heaven His throne. When Jesus left this Earth to return to His Father in Heaven, the place where God's throne is, and where He sits on that throne, the glorified human man, Jesus Christ went UP.

    When Jacob had a vision of a ladder set up on the Earth, the top of which reached to Heaven (Ge.28:12,) and the angels of God ascending and descending upon it, the ladder went UP to reach the abode of God that is being discussed in this thread.

    II Corinthians 12
    1 ¶ It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
    2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
    3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
    4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.


    It is clear that this place is UP from the surface of the Earth, and that it may actually be located over a geographical area known as the promised land. It is in that region that the tower of Babel was being built with the intent to reach Heaven. God said:

    Genesis 11
    6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
    If they imagined that they would reach Heaven, and God said nothing they imagined to do would be restrained from them, we can see that there may be a geographical location of this place, and that it is not all that far above the surface of the Earth.

    It will be interesting to see the scripture that shows that Heaven is an abode within God. "Him in us, and us in Him" references the Holy Spirit of God who is here as a Comforter. God the Father and God the Son are sitting on a throne in a place the scriptures call Heaven.

    .
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2014
Loading...