Depression

[KleinerApfel]

Are the pills you take designed to treat the symptoms or are they aimed at a chemical imbalance in your brain?

SSRI stands for Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitors. I did read up on them a while ago, can't remember much of what I learnt. They're supposed to correct an imbalance somehow, something to do with the hormone that enables communication between synapses. I got a bit bogged down in the jargon.

It takes a couple of weeks minimum for them to begin to make a difference, and a couple of months or more to really control things, then you're meant to remain on them for 6 months or more after you feel completely better, then wean off gradually.
I didn't. I thought I was totally healed after some wonderful ministry, waited about a month before easing off the pills, and within 2 months of that felt it creeping back.

I kept telling myself it was just the enemy trying it on and tried not to give in, but maybe I needed longer to top up my brain even though the root emotional stuff was ministered to. Maybe everything was too sudden and my brain didn't adjust immediatley even though I thought it had. Maybe the brain's grooves of old emotions and behaviours don't all get wiped out when someone is healed - maybe renewing the mind to flatten them out and rework new healthy ones takes a long time.

I'm tired.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

SSRI stands for Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitors. I did read up on them a while ago, can't remember much of what I learnt. They're supposed to correct an imbalance somehow, something to do with the hormone that enables communication between synapses. I got a bit bogged down in the jargon.

It takes a couple of weeks minimum for them to begin to make a difference, and a couple of months or more to really control things, then you're meant to remain on them for 6 months or more after you feel completely better, then wean off gradually.
I didn't. I thought I was totally healed after some wonderful ministry, waited about a month before easing off the pills, and within 2 months of that felt it creeping back.

I kept telling myself it was just the enemy trying it on and tried not to give in, but maybe I needed longer to top up my brain even though the root emotional stuff was ministered to. Maybe everything was too sudden and my brain didn't adjust immediatley even though I thought it had. Maybe the brain's grooves of old emotions and behaviours don't all get wiped out when someone is healed - maybe renewing the mind to flatten them out and rework new healthy ones takes a long time.

I'm tired.

The great thing is that there is nothing wrong with your mind or spirit. It is all just the chemical imbalance. I know that is not much help when you are in the middle of a episode... but you should not be so down on yourself as a person. You really cannot help this physical thing that is happening to you. You are still a great person who is full of love and compassion and there is nothing morally or spiritually wrong with you. It is all physical.

 

[CindyisHis]

The great thing is that there is nothing wrong with your mind or spirit. It is all just the chemical imbalance. I know that is not much help when you are in the middle of a episode... but you should not be so down on yourself as a person. You really cannot help this physical thing that is happening to you. You are still a great person who is full of love and compassion and there is nothing morally or spiritually wrong with you. It is all physical.

I happen to agree you are a wonderful person. satan is such a liar.

 

[KleinerApfel]

The great thing is that there is nothing wrong with your mind or spirit. It is all just the chemical imbalance. I know that is not much help when you are in the middle of a episode... but you should not be so down on yourself as a person. You really cannot help this physical thing that is happening to you. You are still a great person who is full of love and compassion and there is nothing morally or spiritually wrong with you. It is all physical.

Thank you Dids.

I am blown away by such grace.
I'm choosing to believe this, and I'm writing out your post to keep on my desk and re-read any time I consider beating myself up.
There's definitely light and life and hope in that.

 

[sebastian]

Hi, sorry, I know you don't really know me and if you wish i'd not jump in that's cool, it's just i have depression too and when you said this.

Biggest trouble is, when I slip this far down there's a point where I reach an acceleration and lose the desire to fight it. It's as if depression seduces me and I can't resist, I just see that old pathway and it looks so easy and familiar... Despair. Why would I choose despair???

I think I'm just wishing to go so deep down that i enter oblivion. Rest, I want real, true, lasting rest, and I can't find it.

I was a bit taken back 'cos i thought it was just me! I haven't read the whole thread so maybe someone has already said this, but i find that depression is like a habit, i used to smoke a LOT, and though i'm not addicted i still find myself putting my fingers to my lips at the kind of times I loved to smoke y'know? I also find that, having had depression for a very long time, sinse i was quite young, thinking in that way has become a habit, i often curse myself and insult myself out of habit, sometimes i mean it but often i don't even realise i'm doing it, I'm not free of it, but even during the seasons where i feel human and the idea of hiding in the darkness doesn't even appeal to me, i still live as if i was depressed, like out of habit.
What I'm saying is, maybe, though i don;t know you so well and it's just speculation so weigh it up, but maybe the habitual life of a depressive that you have lead needs to be worked out of your system too? I'm not addicted to nicotine anymore but why do i still go through the motions at times? Why when I'm not depressed do i beat myself up without realising it? And why, when things get hard do i start to think about jumping headfirst into what I have always known? I know in my situation it's 'cos I'm scared of who i will be when my depression is lifted from me, you however have taken the steps to get rid of it, but it isn't easy to start walking in a new way when you have had a limp all your life.
do you see what I'm saying?


quick note, just incase you misunderstand, I'm not saying your depression is just in your head and isn't real, that's not for me to say! I'm not saying either that your a crap christian, i don't think you can get good christians so you can't get crap ones either!
but yeah weigh this up, i'm also scared that it looks like i'm saying it's all your fault which i'm also not doing at all. your much stronger than me.

 

[NorrinRadd]

I think it's got me again, I can't make it stop.
I thought I was healed, but it comes back and comes back. A few months at most and it comes back.



And please don't tell me what a crap Christian I am for allowing this. I know.

No, you're not. The messed-up chemicals in your brain are making you feel like you are. And when you say, "Yeah, that's right," the feeling gets all the worse. But when you're in the middle of it, you're usually too beat down to resist and NOT think that way, so don't take that as condemnation.

I know all the right things to do spiritually, I try, but I obviously give in too much.

That's the messed-up chemicals talking. Blaming yourself won't help.

I listen to worship songs, the bible and sermons on my mp3 player as I work.

Good.

Biggest trouble is, when I slip this far down there's a point where I reach an acceleration and lose the desire to fight it. It's as if depression seduces me and I can't resist, I just see that old pathway and it looks so easy and familiar... Despair. Why would I choose despair???

Because right now the chemicals in your brain are not allowing you to feel and think normally. In part, it's as though the chemicals that provide energy for your brain to function are not doing their job. No energy for your brain, no energy to fight the despair.

I think I'm just wishing to go so deep down that i enter oblivion. Rest, I want real, true, lasting rest, and I can't find it.

Yes, I've had counselling, healing, deliverance.
I really, really thought I'd dealt with everything.

Not if the problem is chemical. If you were "healed" of epilepsy but still had seizures, there would apparently still be something left to "deal" with.

I was on SSRI's (antidepressants) for 9 months from autumn 2006 - summer 2007, then God healed and delivered me fo some stuff and afetr a few weeks I began to wean off. I have not taken them since August.

I believed I was healed. why would I need pills again? Am i healed or not? If not, why not, when i truly thought I was?

At this point, "why" doesn't matter. It looks as though you need to get back on them.

I hate pills, they make me feel ill in other ways. Always a trade-off that takes considerable debating with myself.

Understood. I deal with panic attacks and migraine. So far, I've been able to deal with them satisfactorily via some supplements and, for the migraine, minor OTC stuff. I prefer to avoid the "heavy duty" stuff like triptans, SSRIs, SNRIs, etc. But if I felt anywhere near as miserable as you seem to, I'd go for it.

is it really a medical problem though?

Many people say it's our thoughts that bring it on, feed the brain with bad stuff, stress hormones, all re-arranges the brain chemisrty.

So is it my fault?

Probably not. And even if it is, at this point it doesn't matter. If the wheel falls off the car, you work on putting it back on, and LATER try to figure out who didn't tighten the bolts last time.

or to put it another way, if I was a bettr person, could I chase it away by thinking "properly" as some teach?

Doubtful, because your thinking itself is affected by the chemical problems. Discipline of thoughts may well help the process, but you likely need to directly address the chemical problem first.

If you had an injured back, you would first treat the injury, THEN build up the muscles to lessen the chance of future injury.

I used to think so. I still think they have a point. But if that's true, then when you begin to slip down fast, and you can't make it stop, all your left with is self-loathing.

I did it to myself, i lost the healing I received, i let the demons get me, i gave in because I'm weak. i deserve to feel bad.

No, you may have been too quick to believe whoever told you you were "healed," and you may have jumped off the meds too quickly, but it's the chemicals making you feel like you "deserve" to feel bad.

If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, swims like a duck...
why would I not call it a duck?

If I feel exhausted by normal life, stressed at the smallest extra thing that crops up, cry every day for long periods, see no way for it to improve, then how is that not depression?

I feel depressed, depression is all about how you feel, it's all about how your mind works, (or doesn't work), so how can pretending I am not misreable make me content?


I have tried speaking it but I don't believe it so that won't work. I just can't make myself believe I am well when I don't feel well. I know, I know, but that's the way it is.

You are exactly correct. The "claim it and confess it" stuff is a steamin' load of crap. When Jesus healed people, he HEALED them. He never told them, "Ok, pretend like it actually worked, and go around telling people it did, and sooner or later it really will."

We're back to that again aren't we? It is MY OWN FAULT!

Nuh-uh. And don't listen to the well-intentioned blame-throwers.

Feeling so bad. Still think it's my fault, and that audio and another I listened to agree.

Then find different ones to listen to. Look for a good ridiculous comedy. That's not a substitute for meds, but it may at least take some of the edge off.

So, if I am too weak and pathetic to push through and get victory, I'll be stuck in this forever. My fault, my fault, my fault. Guilty as hell, I deserve condemnation, just stone me.

Um, well, "getting stoned" might make you feel better for a while, but then there's that whole addiction thing on top of what you have now...

SSRI stands for Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitors. I did read up on them a while ago, can't remember much of what I learnt. They're supposed to correct an imbalance somehow, something to do with the hormone that enables communication between synapses. I got a bit bogged down in the jargon.

Yes, it's complex and confusing. And sometimes it's not just serotonin but also other chemicals like norepinephrine that are out of whack. Trial and error -- sometimes lots of error -- to find what works best for you.

It takes a couple of weeks minimum for them to begin to make a difference, and a couple of months or more to really control things, then you're meant to remain on them for 6 months or more after you feel completely better, then wean off gradually.
I didn't. I thought I was totally healed after some wonderful ministry, waited about a month before easing off the pills, and within 2 months of that felt it creeping back.

I kept telling myself it was just the enemy trying it on and tried not to give in, but maybe I needed longer to top up my brain even though the root emotional stuff was ministered to. Maybe everything was too sudden and my brain didn't adjust immediatley even though I thought it had. Maybe the brain's grooves of old emotions and behaviours don't all get wiped out when someone is healed - maybe renewing the mind to flatten them out and rework new healthy ones takes a long time.

I'm tired.

I'm sure you are.

Here are two articles:

Depression at Diagnose-Me.

Depression Protocol at LEF.

I've gotten benefit from their info on migraine, anxiety, and panic. But my symptoms in those areas were not as severe as yours seem to be in the depression arena. I heartily encourage you to get in touch with your doctor.

 

[SharonL]

NR
Your post is great - I especially liked this quote"
===============
You are exactly correct. The "claim it and confess it" stuff is a steamin' load of crap. When Jesus healed people, he HEALED them. He never told them, "Ok, pretend like it actually worked, and go around telling people it did, and sooner or later it really will."
===============

I have never understood this way of thinking - I had a very dear friend who had cancer - she was a Pastor - when I would call and ask how she was she said I am fine - the doctors have found no sign of the cancer - when in fact she was bedridden, in such pain she could not lay still - I would call week after week - she would confess that she was doing fine, getting better every day and I felt very good about her condition - then one day I called and found out she had died.

So I don't understand why a person would say they are fine when they are not. You gave great advice.

 

[Christina M]

NR
Your post is great - I especially liked this quote"
===============
You are exactly correct. The "claim it and confess it" stuff is a steamin' load of crap. When Jesus healed people, he HEALED them. He never told them, "Ok, pretend like it actually worked, and go around telling people it did, and sooner or later it really will."
===============

I have never understood this way of thinking - I had a very dear friend who had cancer - she was a Pastor - when I would call and ask how she was she said I am fine - the doctors have found no sign of the cancer - when in fact she was bedridden, in such pain she could not lay still - I would call week after week - she would confess that she was doing fine, getting better every day and I felt very good about her condition - then one day I called and found out she had died.

So I don't understand why a person would say they are fine when they are not. You gave great advice.

Some people walk in presumption.
Some people walk in ignorance.
Some people walk in preposterous assumption.
Some people walk in faith.

I've been WOF for almost 20 yrs and have never heard anyone teach we are to deny our symptoms.

 

[peacechild4]

NR
Your post is great - I especially liked this quote"
===============
You are exactly correct. The "claim it and confess it" stuff is a steamin' load of crap. When Jesus healed people, he HEALED them. He never told them, "Ok, pretend like it actually worked, and go around telling people it did, and sooner or later it really will."
===============

I have never understood this way of thinking - I had a very dear friend who had cancer - she was a Pastor - when I would call and ask how she was she said I am fine - the doctors have found no sign of the cancer - when in fact she was bedridden, in such pain she could not lay still - I would call week after week - she would confess that she was doing fine, getting better every day and I felt very good about her condition - then one day I called and found out she had died.

So I don't understand why a person would say they are fine when they are not. You gave great advice.

Only through Christ could we say what has not manifested in the flesh yet.. Saying something just to say something doesn't work but saying what God says is truth and it sets us free..

Joel 3:10 Beat your plowshares into swords
and your pruning hooks into spears.
Let the weakling say,
"I am strong!"

I am going to be bold.. because I have asked God for healing for Sue.. And I believe that it is His will to heal her..

Thank You Lord for healing Sue!​

 

[KleinerApfel]

Sebastian, thank you for your insights as a fellow-sufferer, and no, I don't mind you jumping in, and you didn't offend me at all.

You're young with your life ahead of you - don't wait like I did for years to start getting help!

I didn't even know the Lord until I was 30 or so, and I didn't understand the Holy Spirit at all for some years more so didn't begin to receive the ministry I needed until recently.

I had a truly amazing 3 day healing retreat last summer, and am returning for a further day of worship and teaching soon. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them to anyone - I felt completely safe and loved while I was there. Ellel Ministries have 4 houses around the UK and one or two elsewhere.

NorrinRadd, thank you for your detailed and edifying reply, you are a listener, and you clearly understand.

 

[sebastian]

yeah I know ellel, i was thinking about training there for a bit but God had other plans, they're good people though. I'm glad you have access to them and they give you strength and the like.

 

[irenemcg]

Upholding you Sue and Sebastian up in prayer, for total healing in Jesus Name.

 

[Peaceful Dove]

is it really a medical problem though?

Many people say it's our thoughts that bring it on, feed the brain with bad stuff, stress hormones, all re-arranges the brain chemisrty.

So is it my fault?

or to put it another way, if I was a bettr person, could I chase it away by thinking "properly" as some teach?

I used to think so. I still think they have a point. But if that's true, then when you begin to slip down fast, and you can't make it stop, all your left with is self-loathing.

I did it to myself, i lost the healing I received, i let the demons get me, i gave in because I'm weak. i deserve to feel bad.

It is a medical problem. My daughter in law is a Powerful Spirit Filled Christian. I wish she was here to minister to you.
She also suffers from Depression. At one time, I actually believed she could take control of it and because of my dislike of medication, poo pooed the pills that were prescribed for her.
Then I watched her struggle within herself.
Just like yours. God taught me a great lesson, I think.

I want you to read this and take it to heart.
Depression is a medical problem, just like my cancer was.
It has nothing to do with your faith, your belief, your Spirit Filled condition or your Prayer life.
It is a medical thing that happened to your body. Of course I believe in Prayer and had prayer for my cancer.
However, one of the great Gifts is the one he gives to the Medical Profession. They are part of God's healing ministry.

Now, you, my Darling, get on the phone tomorrow an make an appointment with your doctor. Whoever it is that treats you for this Depression. Tell him/her everything. Then do what the doctor tells you. Let him/her get you on the proper meds, get your doses adjusted and never go off them until the doctor tells you. Don't do what your prayer community tells you until it is confirmed by your doctor. If necessary find a Christian Psychologist or Psychiatrist.

In fact, my daughter in law just graduated with her Masters in Psychology. She is going to start giving back what was given to her.

I will be praying for you, Dear one.

 

[peacechild4]

Hi Sue.. I placed a candle at that site for you..

Thank You Lord for healing Sue of depression..

at time of writing and before the candle melts.. 12 people said amen to this prayer..

Halleujah..

Thanks for passing on that site I really like going there.. I only have to write a prayer in faith and people agree saying amen..

“Amen” is a solemn affirmation of truth, a special word that we can use whenever we have said (or heard) something that is true before God.

 

[KleinerApfel]

It is a medical problem. My daughter in law is a Powerful Spirit Filled Christian. I wish she was here to minister to you.
She also suffers from Depression. At one time, I actually believed she could take control of it and because of my dislike of medication, poo pooed the pills that were prescribed for her.
Then I watched her struggle within herself.
Just like yours. God taught me a great lesson, I think.

I want you to read this and take it to heart.
Depression is a medical problem, just like my cancer was.
It has nothing to do with your faith, your belief, your Spirit Filled condition or your Prayer life.
It is a medical thing that happened to your body. Of course I believe in Prayer and had prayer for my cancer.
However, one of the great Gifts is the one he gives to the Medical Profession. They are part of God's healing ministry.

Now, you, my Darling, get on the phone tomorrow an make an appointment with your doctor. Whoever it is that treats you for this Depression. Tell him/her everything. Then do what the doctor tells you. Let him/her get you on the proper meds, get your doses adjusted and never go off them until the doctor tells you. Don't do what your prayer community tells you until it is confirmed by your doctor. If necessary find a Christian Psychologist or Psychiatrist.

In fact, my daughter in law just graduated with her Masters in Psychology. She is going to start giving back what was given to her.

I will be praying for you, Dear one.

I think you're right, but I am never sure...
I know depression is an illness for many, but still I think that's not me - I'm not ill, I'm just an inadequate person. Maybe that's silly. I suppose it's the illness that twists my mind to thinking that.

There have been what I refer to as "windows" all through my life - times when a few months go by and I think, "Oh wow! THIS is what life is really like!"
Then for a time I have adequate energy for daily life, plus some, I enjoy things, I don't cry at all for weeks at a time, I think I'm not such a bad person, I think life is ok and I have a future.

They are precious glimpses of reality... or are they?
There have been quite a few of those over the years, punctuating the greater expanse of life being inexplicably hard and incomprehensible, and that is the reality I've known best for 40 years or so, and therefore consider "normal" for me.
Maybe that is the real me - after all it is predominant - maybe the windows are false and meaningless.

I know that last time I was taking pills I did feel better, so I should be able to judge sensibly that there is indeed a chemical factor. I am almost ready to try them again, but I don't want to, I really am wrestling over popping the first one in.

(I have a pack left that's still in date, so I can start at any moment I choose, and I already have an appointment for next week which I made to discuss menopause issues, so I will be seeing the doctor soon.)

 

[KleinerApfel]

Thank you again for everyone's prayers.

 

[Christina M]

Your 'glimpses of reality' are not false... they are what God wants for you!

 

[NorrinRadd]

I think you're right, but I am never sure...
I know depression is an illness for many, but still I think that's not me - I'm not ill, I'm just an inadequate person. Maybe that's silly. I suppose it's the illness that twists my mind to thinking that.

Of course it's the illness. If you had cataracts and couldn't see clearly, you wouldn't question it so much, you'd know the problem is the "illness" in your eyes. It's harder in a situation like yours because when the illness is causing you to not think clearly, you can't even think clearly ABOUT not thinking clearly!

Besides that, if it were something like cataracts, you could "detach" a bit more -- "Oh, it's a bad problem, but it's only part of my body." But in a situation like yours, it's affecting your mind, and little if anything is more defining of "us" as persons than our own thoughts and memories.

There have been what I refer to as "windows" all through my life - times when a few months go by and I think, "Oh wow! THIS is what life is really like!"
Then for a time I have adequate energy for daily life, plus some, I enjoy things, I don't cry at all for weeks at a time, I think I'm not such a bad person, I think life is ok and I have a future.

They are precious glimpses of reality... or are they?
There have been quite a few of those over the years, punctuating the greater expanse of life being inexplicably hard and incomprehensible, and that is the reality I've known best for 40 years or so, and therefore consider "normal" for me.
Maybe that is the real me - after all it is predominant - maybe the windows are false and meaningless.

Well, the woman in Matt. 9 suffered hemorrhages for 12 years, and the woman in Luke 18 was crippled for 18 years. Then they were healed. Apparently their afflicted state was not really "normal" for them.

 

[KleinerApfel]

Yes, you're right NorrinRadd.
Though I stopped there and pondered a moment after writing that and thought "But maybe he's wrong!!!"
But I'm not listening to that, I'm going to believe that the windows are a glimpse into reality, and I'm going to pursue another one.

I took one of my pills this morning anyway. As I said, the time to argue with myself over whether to take them or not will be when they've begun to clear my mind so I can make that rational decision.
So for now, I'll persuade myself the best I can to take a pill each day, one day at a time.

 

[zaksmummy]

You need to be careful when you start taking the medication again. Was the starting dose different from the dose you finished on?

If it was then you will need to start at the lower level, but to be honest you should do this under the direction of a doctor. When you get to your appointment he may decide to try a different drug.

The best thing to do is to bring your appointment forward, and see him first.

Catrin xx