David Bentley Hart on Hell

[Der Alte]

Keep in mind that Jesus was speaking of the city dump, not the Hell of Dante, Milton and Mary K Baxter. He was simply telling His listeners that it was better to be born (enter life) blind or missing a limb than to live such a life that you ended up executed for some crime and be denied a decent burial, to have your dead body tossed into the dump instead. None of the four words rendered as "hell" in the KJV mean anything like the common idea of Hell, and two of those words come to us from pagan Greek mythology: hades and tartarus.

Time to revisit this patently false narrative.
If people will search for the truth rather than only whatever appears to support their assumptions/presuppositions they may actually find the truth. So let us find the facts about the never burning dump in the valley of Hinnom.

The traditional explanation that a burning rubbish heap in the Valley of Hinnom south of Jerusalem gave rise to the idea of a fiery Gehenna of judgment is attributed to Rabbi David Kimhi's commentary on Psalm 27:13 (ca. A.D. 1200). He maintained that in this loathsome valley fires were kept burning perpetually to consume the filth and cadavers thrown into it. However, Strack and Billerbeck state that there is neither archaeological nor literary evidence in support of this claim, in either the earlier intertestamental or the later rabbinic sources (Hermann L. Strack and Paul Billerbeck, Kommentar zum Neuen Testament aus Talmud and Midrasch, 5 vols. [Munich: Beck, 1922-56], 4:2:1030). Also a more recent author holds a similar view (Lloyd R. Bailey, "Gehenna: The Topography of Hell," Biblical Archeologist 49 [1986]: 189.
Source, Bibliotheca Sacra / July–September 1992
http://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/ted...Articles/BSac-NT/Scharen-GenenaSyn-Pt1-BS.htm​

…..Note there is no “archaeological nor literary evidence in support of this claim, [that Gehenna was ever used as a garbage dump] in either the earlier intertestamental or the later rabbinic sources” If Gehenna was ever used as a garbage dump there should be broken pottery, tools, utensils, bones, etc. but there is no such evidence.
.....

Miqweh of Second Temple Period. ......Jerusalem City-Dump in the Late Second Temple Period, ZDPV, 119/1 (2003),
The chance discovery of an Early Roman city dump (1st century CE) in Jerusalem has yielded for the first time ever quantitative data on garbage components that introduce us to the mundane daily life Jerusalemites led and the kind of animals that were featured in their diet. Most of the garbage consists of pottery shards, all common tableware, while prestige objects are entirely absent. Other significant garbage components include numerous fragments of cooking ovens, wall plaster, animal bones and plant remains. Of the pottery vessels, cooking pots are the most abundant type.
…..Most of the refuse turns out to be “household garbage” originating in the domestic areas of the city, while large numbers of cooking pots may point to the presence of pilgrims. Significantly, the faunal assemblage, which is dominated by kosher species and the clear absence of pigs, set Jerusalem during its peak historical period apart from all other contemporaneous Roman urban centers.
...
Recently, the contemporaneous city-dump was identified on the eastern slope of the south-eastern hill of Jerusalem in the form of a thick mantle (up to 10 m, 200,000 m3 ) (Reich and Shukron 2003). The dump is located roughly 100 m outside and south-east of the Temple Mount on the eastern slope of the Kidron Valley (fig. 1), and extends at least 400 m and is 50–70 m wide. Large amounts of pottery and coins date the dump to the Early Roman period (the 1st century BCE and the 1st century CE up to the destruction of the city by the Romans in 70 CE). A preliminary study of the garbage (Bouchnik, Bar-Oz and Reich 2004; Bouchnik et al. 2005) showed the presence of animal bones.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...udy_of_the_City-Dump_of_Early_Roman_Jerusalem
Jerusalem’s Garbage
​

Usually when I make a post like this it is blown off as a "wall of text" and ignored.

 

[JulieB67]

1 Pet 3:18 does not say by that quickening Spirit that he was able to go to them. "It says the Just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God." Not "them."

It says exactly that. You are stopping with one verse and not continuing into the next verse.

Yes, says it the Just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God but you just can't stop there.


I Peter 3:18 "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the Just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:"

Peter 3:19 "By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison,..

Quickened as we all know means to make "alive". Christ was quickened in the Spirit -continues -By which, meaning it was by that Spirit that he went and preached unto the spirits in prison. If these were earthly men, they wouldn't have been called spirits.

In Luke Christ describes in his parable that there is a gulf there fixed in Heaven where it can't be crossed. I know some don't believe there is a gulf but it certainly wouldn't have been brought up if it wasn't based in reality. No one person or entity has even been sentenced to death yet. But there are those as described in Luke that are one side of the gulf.

And how do the dead "live according to God in the spirit" while they are dead.

They have been quickened alive in the "spirit". Their physical bodies are dead but the spirit returns to God whom gave it in the first place.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

It does not say all nations were thrown into the LOF and came out repentant.

It says all unbelievers. That means all ppl who don't believe the scriptures or the power of God, which includes the nations, but no doubt many professing 'believers' as well, such as those who get the Matthew 7:23 treatment. Or do you say 'the unbelieving' in Revelation 21:8 has some special meaning that i'm not privy to?

When Christ returns all knees will bow because they will in fact know that he is the Son of God. But it doesn't mean some will stay that way. We know that Satan in his little season once again will draw many towards him after him being non existent for a 1000 years. But that shouldn't be suprising to some because even in Moses time, they forsook God and railed against him even after witnessing the miracles he performed firsthand.

That's right, satan comes back and deceives the nations again. Dumb sheep, gotta love em.

Christ states that blessed are those that take part in the first resurrection because they will reign with Christ a 1000 years and because the second death has no power over them. Their souls are set for the eternity. They will be within the city, they've made it and are reigning with Christ. And you know why they are specifically blessed-because they don't have to go through this,

That's right, they've turned to Christ and overcome by the blood of the Lamb. They don't need the ultimate remedy.

After a 1000 years Satan is still able to draw that many people. You wouldn't think that after 1000 years without him that would be possible But again we have to look only back to Moses's time and see that some people can't help being deceived or rail against God and of course Satan plays a good game.

Look out your window. The whole world is under the thrall of the devil atm.

Later on, it doesn't say all nations shall walk in the light of it, it specifically states,

Revelation 21:24 "And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it."

Meaning some are not saved. Salvation is open for all, if they choose. Again, some will not repent. And apparently some will not overcome.

Mistranslation. Most versions do not append those words, and I'd challenge you to find them in an original manuscript. This can be verified by reference to Revelation 15:4, which I cited earlier. No point promising all will come, and then welching on the promise, 'I meant er, some.' Does God welch on His oaths and covenants?

Does that mean God is not fair? No, it means he's fair by completely thorough. He wants to see once and for all who is going to follow him or follow Satan. That's ultimately what it's all about in the end

God is unfair like the labour boss is unfair in the parable of the vineyard workers. It's only a reflection of the envy of the early starters.

That's not biblical.

Those aren't Christ's words. He calls it the second death and I believe him. It also coincides with his teaching in Matthew 10:28 although people choose not to believe that as well. Only believing "he could destroy but he wont."

He calls it the second death, and you interpret that to mean the final demise of the body and soul of certain ppl. That's your interpretation, let's be clear.

I don't see what your point is, this is a statement period. 14 states it's the second death and in 15, it states anyone not in the book of life is thrown in.

Afterwards we see this,

Revelation 21:1 "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and
the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea."

The point is that the conditions of entry into the New Jerusalem is your name must be on the guest list ie in the Book of Life. For those whose names are not there, they're dead (in sins and transgressions) and need to be made alive in Christ. So what's the process? Into the LoF where death is killed and they overcome by the blood of the Lamb (and who knows how long it will take in each case). They are part of the 'everything' that is being 'made anew'. Only their dross is being thrown out with the trash. Geez, He's not going to just snuff out a smouldering wick or break a bruised reed. Salvation is the name of the game, it's the conquest of and by salvation, the triumph of good over evil.

But again, I believe it's all about repentance which we know means "a change of heart/mind" If some don't and continue to hate our Father, why would we want to spend an eternity with them?

Nobody continues to hate God after they've been immersed in His eternal essence of irresistible grace. The heart melts, because He made it and only He can know it!

ETA And I think there are no chances after judgement day and after being thrown into the LOF since Christ states this is the "second" death. Since we know the first death is the death of the physical body common sense alone along with his teaching in Matthew 10 :28 tells us this is the death of the soul.

If I actually saw scriptures that state the LOF was a redemptive measure, I would believe. I really would. But Christ specifically states what is going to happen. We only have to again read verses 7 and 8 of Rev 21 to know.

It's the interpretation you're placing on those scriptures. The touchstone needs to be God's love for the world that will go through hell and death to save, as per His sworn promises from start to finish and of course Jesus Christ. Its only an emaciated and half-baked faith that denies His capacity to deliver.

 

[Der Alte]

It says exactly that. You are stopping with one verse and not continuing into the next verse.
Yes, says it the Just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God but you just can't stop there.

Bring US, who are alive, NOT the dead.

I Peter 3:18 "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the Just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:"​

1 Peter 3:19 "By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison,..
Quickened as we all know means to make "alive". Christ was quickened in the Spirit -continues -By which, meaning it was by that Spirit that he went and preached unto the spirits in prison. If these were earthly men, they wouldn't have been called spirits.

Where/what is the prison? The grave/hell is never called prison and prison is never called hell/the grave anywhere in the Bible.

In Luke Christ describes in his parable that there is a gulf there fixed in Heaven where it can't be crossed. I know some don't believe there is a gulf but it certainly wouldn't have been brought up if it wasn't based in reality. No one person or entity has even been sentenced to death yet. But there are those as described in Luke that are one side of the gulf.

Relevance?

They have been quickened alive in the "spirit". Their physical bodies are dead but the spirit returns to God whom gave it in the first place.

Not yet. They have not been quickened alive in the spirit. Not until the resurrection judgment.

1Pe_4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Please explain to me how those who are actually, literally dead "might be judged according to men in the flesh?" "And live according to God in the spirit?" They are dead and will be dead until the resurrection. Is there any scripture which says the dead in the grave or hell are actually saved while they are dead?

John 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
Psalms 88:10-11
10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?
Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
1Thessalonians 4:13
(13) But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
Ephesians 2:12
(12) That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Isaiah 26:14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.
Psalms 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
JPS Prov 24:20
(20) For there will be no future to the evil man, the lamp of the wicked shall be put out.
Psalms 115:17
(17) The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.​

 

[Shrewd Manager]

If you don't like what Jesus said in Matt 7:22-23 maybe you need to get your heart right with God.
What exactly do you think Matt 7:22-23 means? The language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox has been Greek for 2000 years +/- who better than the native Greek speaking scholars who translated the EOB know the correct translation of the Greek in the NT?

Matthew 7:22 Many will tell me in that Day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your Name, cast out demons in your Name, and do many deeds of power in your Name?’ 23 Then I will tell them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from me, you who do what is wicked.’(fn)
....(fn) Or “you who work iniquity”
Cleenewerck, L., ed. (2011). The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible: New Testament (Mt 7:22–23). Laurent A. Cleenewerck.​

So please give me your version of what Matt 7:22-23 "really" means. Bear in mind the EOB quoted above.

The words are clear, but to me the verse prompts the questions:

1. Why does Jesus judge persons performing works of power done in his name, including prophesying and casting out demons, to be wicked?
2. Why (in your theology) do these 'workers of inquity' warrant eternal damnation?

First, do you agree that these are the relevant questions? Feel free to amend as you see fit.

 

[Der Alte]

* * *
Mistranslation. Most versions do not append those words, and I'd challenge you to find them in an original manuscript. This can be verified by reference to Revelation 15:4, which I cited earlier. No point promising all will come, and then welching on the promise, 'I meant er, some.' Does God welch on His oaths and covenants? * * *

But for one thing there ain't no "nations" or "kings" in "the grave","hell","the lake of fire." Only individual dead corpses.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

But for one thing there ain't no "nations" or "kings" in "the grave","hell","the lake of fire." Only individual dead corpses.

Death - the great leveler.

 

[Der Alte]

The words are clear, but to me the verse prompts the questions:

1. Why does Jesus judge persons performing works of power done in his name, including prophesying and casting out demons, to be wicked?
2. Why (in your theology) do these 'workers of inquity' warrant eternal damnation?

First, do you agree that these are the relevant questions? Feel free to amend as you see fit.

Jesus said He never knew them. Let me illustrate by a joke. A true story will follow.
A biker goes into a big mega church. Long hair, beard, clean but worn jeans, tatoos, boots, leather jacket. He sat down and the good folk inched away from him. After the service as he was leaving the pastor stopped him and said "If you come back to this church you should pray and ask God how you should dress when you come to this church." The next week there was the biker again dressed the same. The pastor stopped him on the way in and said. "I thought I told you to ask God how you should dress when you come to this church." The biker said "I did He said He didn't know He's never been in this church."
A biker pastor I know visited our conservative church. He could have been the biker in the above story. He said he visited a local church, he wouldn't say which. He was stopped in the foyer and told he could not come in. They said "You represent the world and we have separated from the world." or words to that effect.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Jesus said He never knew them. Let me illustrate by a joke. A true story will follow.
A biker goes into a big mega church. Long hair, beard, clean but worn jeans, tatoos, boots, leather jacket. He sat down and the good folk inched away from him. After the service as he was leaving the pastor stopped him and said "If you come back to this church you should pray and ask God how you should dress when you come to this church." The next week there was the biker again dressed the same. The pastor stopped him on the way in and said. "I thought I told you to ask God how you should dress when you come to this church." The biker said "I did He said He didn't know He's never been in this church."
A biker pastor I know visited our conservative church. He could have been the biker in the above story. He said he visited a local church, he wouldn't say which. He was stopped in the foyer and told he could not come in. They said "You represent the world and we have separated from the world." or words to that effect.

If I was the pastor I might inspect his bike, tread wear and hero blob condition before delivering judgment. Eg 'Hey friend, Jesus loves you but Harleys are for sodomites, and neither are welcome in the Kingdom.' Better he knows the truth, eh?

If he returned the following week on a Guzzi, for instance, and with scrapes on the pegs, that's a sure sign he's seen the light.

So do we finally agree on something - Jesus rejects Harley riders professing to be Christians because they're gay?

 

[Andrewn]

Hart identifies as Orthodox but his teaching on the final judgment is not Orthodox. See section on the last judgment:

An Online Orthodox Catechism » Catechism » OrthodoxEurope.org

This Orthodox Catechism dispels the idea of UR. However, it also supports the possibility of post-mortem progression in Hades, before the Resurrection of the body and the Final Judgment. The following are quotations from the Catechism:

- According to the teaching of the Church, the Last Judgment will be universal: all people will undergo it, be they believers or non-believers, Christians or non-Christians.

- However, not everyone who during his earthly life did not meet Christ is deprived of the possibility of being liberated from Hell, for even in Hell the message of the Gospel is heard.

- This is why Christ preached in Hell in order that every human person created by Him would make a choice for good or evil, and in connection with this choice be either saved or condemned.

- Immediately after the common resurrection, will be the Last Judgment at which the final decision is taken as to who is worthy of the Kingdom of heaven and who should be sentenced to the torments of Hell. Before this event, however, there exists the possibility for the person in Hell to gain release; after the Last Judgment this possibility no longer remains.

- A person who deliberately rejects Christ and His Gospel makes his choice for the devil and becomes himself guilty of his own condemnation: ‘...He who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God’ (John 3:18).

- Jesus Christ’s Parable of the Last Judgment (Matt.25:31-46) indicates that for many people the Judgment will become a moment of insight, recognition and conversion, while for others it may turn out to be a great disappointment and frustration. Those who were sure of their own salvation will suddenly find themselves condemned, while those who perhaps did not meet Christ in their earthly life (‘when did we see Thee?’) but were merciful towards their neighbour, will be saved. In this parable, the King does not ask people about matters of belief, doctrine and religious practice. He does not ask them whether they went to church, kept the fasts, or prayed for long time: He only asks them how they treated His ‘brethren’. The main criteria of the Judgment are therefore the acts of mercy performed or not performed by people during their earthly lives.

Observations: The Catholic Catechism also hints at similar beliefs but does not state them as clearly and succinctly. Mainline Protestant denominations also see to share similar beliefs. But clear opposition for post-mortem progression comes from Evangelicals, who generally have the loudest voices in the media.

 

[Saint Steven]

Death - the great leveler.

Yup. I imagine a lot of bare butts in line for a white robe. God is no respecter of persons. Unless you are Abraham, or Moses or something. - lol

 

[JulieB67]

t says all unbelievers. That means all ppl who don't believe the scriptures or the power of God, which includes the nations, but no doubt many professing 'believers' as well, such as those who get the Matthew 7:23 treatment. Or do you say 'the unbelieving' in Revelation 21:8 has some special meaning that i'm not privy to?

My point was it doesn't say they come out "repentant"

Mistranslation. Most versions do not append those words, and I'd challenge you to find them in an original manuscript. This can be verified by reference to Revelation 15:4, which I cited earlier. No point promising all will come, and then welching on the promise, 'I meant er, some.' Does God welch on His oaths and covenants?

Many newer translations tend to veer off course. Leading to one simple word completely changing the context of a verse. I trust the verse I posted because it's completely in line with in fact God's promises. There's always a condition to his promises, OT and NT.

Going back to the verses in Revelation

Revelation 21:7 "He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son."

Here's another promise, the condition is that we have to overcome.

Why doesn't it say, all will overcome and shall inherit all things...? Or will eventually overcome?

And the very next verse,

Revelation 21:8 "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

This is once again Christ reiterating what "will" happen. So you're saying Christ is just going to leave us hanging? Where's the verse after this that says these people overcome and come out of the LOF? Or why even have this verse if eventually "all" overcome?

He's made clear separation between both groups. The group that makes it and the group that doesn't. To read anything else into this is purely wishful thinking.

In the final chapter,

Revelation 22:14 "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

This is a promise as well.

Even the most well known verse, John 3:16


John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Belief on Christ, that means faith, entrust, etc on Christ. And if we put that faith into him, the next part would be trusting in the Word, etc because that's essentially vital because he is the Word.
But you're saying if someone doesn't choose to do that before judgement day, Christ needs help. (totally unbiblical) with the LOF. The same fire prepared for Satan and his angels.

Once again, I don't see it.

Which is fine, we all have to sail our own ships, run our own race as Paul states.

 

[Der Alte]

If I was the pastor I might inspect his bike, tread wear and hero blob condition before delivering judgment. Eg 'Hey friend, Jesus loves you but Harleys are for sodomites, and neither are welcome in the Kingdom.' Better he knows the truth, eh?
If he returned the following week on a Guzzi, for instance, and with scrapes on the pegs, that's a sure sign he's seen the light.
So do we finally agree on something - Jesus rejects Harley riders professing to be Christians because they're gay?

I wonder how God feels about BMWs. When I was learning to fly helicopters 56 years ago+/-. The piston engine helicopters had Harley throttle handles.

 

[Light of the East]

Thanks for your post. I have a question for you. (or anyone, really)

I was raised Protestant. So, when considering the three legged stool, I'm not sure what to do with "the Holy Tradition of the church" leg. Catholics and Orthodox are much more focused on this. (the understatement of the week? - lol) I suppose there are things that translate in both traditions, but I'm not sure if you meant more than that, or not.

Simply this: what has been believed from the beginning of the Christian faith. Arias made a stout defense of his idea that Christ is not God Incarnate, but, as I understand it, that which carried the day was the fact that from the beginning, the Church taught that Jesus is God in the flesh.

The same is true with Universal Restoration. 500 years of teaching it in four theological schools without a single whiff of the word "heresy" being uttered. What right did the Roman Church have to take Augustine's new ideas and run with them, including destroying Universalism? And that without so much as a council!

 

[Der Alte]

* * *
The same is true with Universal Restoration. 500 years of teaching it in four theological schools without a single whiff of the word "heresy" being uttered. What right did the Roman Church have to take Augustine's new ideas and run with them, including destroying Universalism? And that without so much as a council!

I have seen this claim "Universal Restoration. 500 years of teaching it in four theological schools..." multiple times in this and other forums. But what I have never seen is any credible, verifiable, historical evidence supporting the claim. I only know of one source which makes the claim but does not itself provide any supporting evidence i.e. Schaff, Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge
Link: Philip Schaff: Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia Vol. : 0120=96 - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
Here is all that the article says.
Schaff, Herzogg Encycopedia of Religious Knowledge, Universalism, Vol. 12 p. 96

"In the West this doctrine had fewer adherents and was never accepted by the Church at large. In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were five or six known theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalist but their actual doctrine on this subject is unknown."​

I would appreciate anyone who could search and find something
1. Credible, definitely not Andy Anonymous' blog.
2. Verifiable, actually exists and readily available to the average person, not only available at a major university library with student ID..
3. Historical, something written at or near the times in question by a participant or direct eye witness.

 

[ozso]

Simply this: what has been believed from the beginning of the Christian faith. Arias made a stout defense of his idea that Christ is not God Incarnate, but, as I understand it, that which carried the day was the fact that from the beginning, the Church taught that Jesus is God in the flesh.

The same is true with Universal Restoration. 500 years of teaching it in four theological schools without a single whiff of the word "heresy" being uttered. What right did the Roman Church have to take Augustine's new ideas and run with them, including destroying Universalism? And that without so much as a council!

Here's some interesting information regarding Augustine

 

[Der Alte]

I have seen this claim "Universal Restoration. 500 years of teaching it in four theological schools..." multiple times in this and other forums. But what I have never seen is any credible, verifiable, historical evidence supporting the claim. I only know of one source which makes the claim but does not itself provide any supporting evidence i.e. Schaff, Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge
Link: Philip Schaff: Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia Vol. : 0120=96 - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
Here is all that the article says.
Schaff, Herzogg Encycopedia of Religious Knowledge, Universalism, Vol. 12 p. 96

In the West this doctrine had fewer adherents and was never accepted by the Church at large. In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were five or six known theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalist but their actual doctrine on this subject is unknown.​

I would appreciate anyone who could search and find something
1. credible, definitely not Andy Anonymous' blog.
2. verifiable, actually exists and readily available i.e. not available only at e.g. Yale university library.
3. historical, something written at or near the times in question by a participant or direct eye witness.

"In the West this doctrine had fewer adherents and was never accepted by the Church at large. In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were five or six known theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalist but their actual doctrine on this subject is unknown."​

I'm going to critique my own source. Other than posts quoting this statement, I know of no other published credible source for the above information.
Note this statement "In the first five or six centuries of Christianity." The author of this doesn't even know exactly the time period when the early church supposedly believed in universalism.
Next this statement "there were five or six known theological schools" is self contradictory. Either the "theological schools" were "known" or they weren't. If they were "known" the author would have "known" exactly how many schools there actually were instead of saying "five or six known... schools."
Then the author mentions "other theological schools" but does not know what they taught.

 

[Hmm]

This Orthodox Catechism dispels the idea of UR. However, it also supports the possibility of post-mortem progression in Hades, before the Resurrection of the body and the Final Judgment. The following are quotations from the Catechism:

- According to the teaching of the Church, the Last Judgment will be universal: all people will undergo it, be they believers or non-believers, Christians or non-Christians.

- However, not everyone who during his earthly life did not meet Christ is deprived of the possibility of being liberated from Hell, for even in Hell the message of the Gospel is heard.

- This is why Christ preached in Hell in order that every human person created by Him would make a choice for good or evil, and in connection with this choice be either saved or condemned.

- Immediately after the common resurrection, will be the Last Judgment at which the final decision is taken as to who is worthy of the Kingdom of heaven and who should be sentenced to the torments of Hell. Before this event, however, there exists the possibility for the person in Hell to gain release; after the Last Judgment this possibility no longer remains.

- A person who deliberately rejects Christ and His Gospel makes his choice for the devil and becomes himself guilty of his own condemnation: ‘...He who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God’ (John 3:18).

- Jesus Christ’s Parable of the Last Judgment (Matt.25:31-46) indicates that for many people the Judgment will become a moment of insight, recognition and conversion, while for others it may turn out to be a great disappointment and frustration. Those who were sure of their own salvation will suddenly find themselves condemned, while those who perhaps did not meet Christ in their earthly life (‘when did we see Thee?’) but were merciful towards their neighbour, will be saved. In this parable, the King does not ask people about matters of belief, doctrine and religious practice. He does not ask them whether they went to church, kept the fasts, or prayed for long time: He only asks them how they treated His ‘brethren’. The main criteria of the Judgment are therefore the acts of mercy performed or not performed by people during their earthly lives.

Observations: The Catholic Catechism also hints at similar beliefs but does not state them as clearly and succinctly. Mainline Protestant denominations also see to share similar beliefs. But clear opposition for post-mortem progression comes from Evangelicals, who generally have the loudest voices in the media.

Interesting info. It couldn't really be clearer that the Orthodox Catechism asserts a temporary hell pre the Last Judgement and a permanent hell thereafter. As you say, it's only the Evangelical types who deny the Harrowing of Hell at all.

Do you know what the status is of the Orthodox Catechism? Is it supposed to be a fixed and definitive summation of theIr beliefs? If so, it's very hard to square that with their acceptance of DBH as a minister and their high regard for Gregory of Nyssa - the "father of fathers" - both of whom are outright universalists.

Edited. Just did a quick search. According to
How to Become Orthodox

"The Orthodox Church has no formal catechism, a single body of work that details the specifics of its faith. This is one difference between the Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church, who does have a specific catechism."

This fits in with what DBH says, that the EO church remains silent on the matter of universalism.

 

[ozso]

"Some of the fathers preached hellfire rhetorically at Christians to make a moral point but in their hymns are unabashedly universalist. Talk about irrefutable... it’s the hymnody that leads the way and is our primary theology: “Let Every Mortal Leap for Joy”: Apocatastatic Hymnody in Orthodox Worship" - Brad Jersak

 

[Hmm]

"Some of the fathers preached hellfire rhetorically at Christians to make a moral point but in their hymns are unabashedly universalist. Talk about irrefutable... it’s the hymnody that leads the way and is our primary theology: “Let Every Mortal Leap for Joy”: Apocatastatic Hymnody in Orthodox Worship" - Brad Jersak

Great point. It's that joyousness that's missing in most church services today. Which isn't surprising when you consider most churches are trying to persuade people to worship a god who tortures people, and that may be their partner or child, for ever and ever because they didn't subscribe to the right thing. Luckily most people have more spiritual discernment than that and stay well away but sadly the Good News to the world is being lost.