David Bentley Hart on Hell

[JulieB67]

My Bible states nothing about Jesus' springing anybody.

I Peter 3:18 "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the Just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:"

I Peter 3:19 "By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison,"

I Peter 3:20 "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering for God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."

As soon as Christ was quickened by the Spirit -made alive, he went and preached to the spirits in prison (which we know from Christ is to one side of the gulf), people as far back as the days of Noah. That's the one reference I've seen to Christ preaching to one side of the gulf.

Our Father is love for sure.

 

[Clare73]

I Peter 3:18 "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the Just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:"

I Peter 3:19 "By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison,"

I Peter 3:20 "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering for God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."

As soon as Christ was quickened by the Spirit -made alive, he went and preached to the spirits in prison (which we know from Christ is to one side of the gulf), people as far back as the days of Noah. That's the one reference I've seen to Christ preaching to one side of the gulf.

Our Father is love for sure.

But it doesn't say "released," it says "preached" (proclaimed--kerusso).

He proclaimed his victory to the spirits in prison (demons in hell, his enemies and captives)--Jude 6; 2 Peter 2:4.

There is no Biblical warrant for making this a release of anyone from Hades.

 

[Der Alte]

I Peter 3:18 "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the Just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:"
I Peter 3:19 "By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison,"
I Peter 3:20 "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering for God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."
As soon as Christ was quickened by the Spirit -made alive, he went and preached to the spirits in prison (which we know from Christ is to one side of the gulf), people as far back as the days of Noah. That's the one reference I've seen to Christ preaching to one side of the gulf.
Our Father is love for sure.

Hell/the grave is never called prison and prison is never called hell/the grave in the Bible.
If Jesus preached to dead people in the grave/hell what was His purpose? If His purpose was converting the dead then it was a great failure only eight people, Noah and his family, were saved and they were alive not dead.
Jesus ministry,

Luke 4:18-19
18 "The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free,
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."​

Nothing about preaching to dead people in the grave/hell.
The word translated prisoners literally means prisoners of war. There are no prisoners, poor, blind, oppressed people in the grave/hell, only dead people.

 

[Saint Steven]

I Peter 3:18 "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the Just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:"

I Peter 3:19 "By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison,"

I Peter 3:20 "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering for God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."

As soon as Christ was quickened by the Spirit -made alive, he went and preached to the spirits in prison (which we know from Christ is to one side of the gulf), people as far back as the days of Noah. That's the one reference I've seen to Christ preaching to one side of the gulf.

Our Father is love for sure.

The "one side of the gulf" is defined as "those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah..." - 1 Peter 3:20

Is that the side of the gulf you were referring to?

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Note: Christ was laid in an above ground tomb. Where is the heart of the earth?

1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

Ephesians 4:8-10
This is why it says:
“When he ascended on high,
he took many captives
and gave gifts to his people.”
9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also
descended to the lower, earthly regions?
10 He who descended is the very one who ascended
higher than all the heavens,
in order to fill the whole universe.)

1 Peter 4:6
For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

 

[Clare73]

Hell/the grave is never called prison and prison is never called hell/the grave in the Bible.
If Jesus preached to dead people in the grave/hell what was His purpose? If His purpose was converting the dead then it was a great failure only eight people, Noah and his family, were saved and they were alive not dead.
Jesus ministry,

Luke 4:18-19
18 "The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free,
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."​

Nothing about preaching to dead people in the grave/hell.
The word translated prisoners literally means prisoners of war. There are no prisoners, poor, blind, oppressed people in the grave/hell, only dead people.

1 Peter 4:6 - "For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit."

"Now" is not in the Greek. He preached to "those who are dead" while they were still alive, but now are dead.
The gospel is not preached to human spirits after the death of their bodies.

 

[Clare73]

The "one side of the gulf" is defined as "those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah..." - 1 Peter 3:20

Is that the side of the gulf you were referring to?

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Note: Christ was laid in an above ground tomb. Where is the heart of the earth?

1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.

19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

He proclaimed his victory to the spirits in prison (the demons in hell), whom he had taken captive.

Ephesians 4:8-10This is why it says: “When he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people.”
9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also
descended to the lower, earthly regions?
10 He who descended is the very one who ascended
higher than all the heavens,
in order to fill the whole universe.)

He took those captive who had taken others captive.

"He led captivity captive" in his train, "having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross" (Colossians 2:15),
and gave gifts to men" (the Holy Spirit--Acts 1:4-5)."

1 Peter 4:6
For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.

"Now" is not in the Greek. He preached to "those who are dead" while they were still alive, but now are dead.
The gospel is not preached to human spirits after the death of their bodies.
The door to salvation is shut to them (Matthew 25:10).

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

That's the dead in Christ, not the dead in Hades.

 

[JulieB67]

He proclaimed his victory to the demons in prison (hell)--Jude 6; 2 Peter 2:4.

These were spirits that were sometimes disobedient. This has nothing to do do the Fallen Angels.

There are no prisoners, poor, blind, oppressed people in the grave/hell, only dead people.

It says very specifically that these were spirits from the days of Noah. It's impossible for them to have been prisoners on earth at that time.

Is that the side of the gulf you were referring to?

Yes.

 

[Saint Steven]

These were spirits that were sometimes disobedient. This has nothing to do do the Fallen Angels.

It says very specifically that these were spirits from the days of Noah. It's impossible for them to have been prisoners on earth at that time.

Yes.

Right, they were humans, not demons.

The prisoners that Christ preached to and led out were located in the realm of the dead. (the lower, earthly regions) And I think he preached to everyone there. Not limited to one side of the gulf. (in order to fill the whole universe.)

Ephesians 4:8-10
This is why it says:
“When he ascended on high,
he took many captives
and gave gifts to his people.”
9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also
descended to the lower, earthly regions?
10 He who descended is the very one who ascended
higher than all the heavens,
in order to fill the whole universe.)

 

[JulieB67]

"Now" is not in the Greek. He preached to "those who are dead" while they were still alive, but now are dead.

I Peter 4:5 "Who shall give account to Him That is ready to judge the quick and the dead."

The subject is the living and the dead. The quick are the living.

I Peter 4:6 "For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit."

This shows that God is completely fair in that as soon as Christ was quickened in the spirit he preached the gospel to those that were sometime disobedient, making sure they are judged just as we are in the flesh and still have that chance of Christ's saving grace. There's only one reason to preach the gospel. And it's not to the fallen angels or demons.

ETA to add
"but live according to God in the spirit." Christ defeated death so that when we die we are quickened alive in the spirit, going to one side of the gulf as Christ described. That's that part of the verse means. And judgement day has not happened yet, no one has been sentenced to the lake of fire as of yet.

 

[Saint Steven]

There's only one reason to preach the gospel. And it's not to the fallen angels or demons.

What's with the "fallen angels or demons" thing? Don't you know what the realm of the dead is? (Sheol, the Grave)
Or the "sometimes disobedient" thing? It doesn't mean sometimes, as in not all the time. It means some time ago. (the days of Noah)

 

[JulieB67]

What's with the "fallen angels or demons" thing? Don't you know what the realm of the dead is

I was replying to Clare about them since she brought them up.

I do know these spirits were as far back as the days of Noah, yes.

 

[Saint Steven]

I was replying to Clare about them since she brought them up.

If you use the <Reply in the lower right in the gray bar at the bottom of each post, it brings the quote with. Then we will know who you are writing to. Thanks.

Try it with my post to see how it works.

You can also select text in a post and it will give you the option to reply to just that text.

Click "Reply" here
below in the grey bar​

 

[JulieB67]

f you use the <Reply in the lower right in the gray bar at the bottom of each post, it bring the quote with. Then we will know who you are writing to. Thanks.

I took quotes from all 3 of you and it says the names in my reply. I was trying to reply all in one post, sorry for the confusion.

 

[Clare73]

These were spirits that were sometimes disobedient. This has nothing to do do the Fallen Angels.

Apart from human spirits, all spirits are angels. The only disobedient angels are in Hades.

 

[Clare73]

I Peter 4:5 "Who shall give account to Him That is ready to judge the quick and the dead."

The subject is the living and the dead. The quick are the living.

I Peter 4:6 "For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit."

Because that can be misunderstood, "now" is added to the verse to read (them that are now dead), clarifying that they were not dead when they received the preaching, the former living are being referred to here.

This shows that God is completely fair in that as soon as Christ was quickened in the spirit he preached the gospel to those that were sometime disobedient, making sure they are judged just as we are in the flesh and still have that chance of Christ's saving grace. There's only one reason to preach the gospel. And it's not to the fallen angels or demons.

The verse is not stating the dead were preached to. When human spirits are separated from their human bodies at death, the door to salvation is shut to them (Matthew 25:10; Hebrews 9:27).

You don't know your New Testament.

ETA to add
"but live according to God in the spirit." Christ defeated death so that when we die we are quickened alive in the spirit, going to one side of the gulf as Christ described. That's that part of the verse means. And judgement day has not happened yet, no one has been sentenced to the lake of fire as of yet.

The gospel is preached to the living, including the former living who are now dead, for two purposes:
1) to judge one's sin now, where through faith in the atoning work of Christ your sin is paid for now, rather than to be judged in the judgment to come where your sin is paid for then by you, and
2) to live according to God's life, which is to live eternally (eternal life), which is given by the Holy Spirit.

 

[JulieB67]

Because that can be misunderstood, "now" is added to the verse to read (them that are now dead), clarifying that they were not dead when they received the preaching, but are dead now

You have not clarified anything. You keep bring up the word now and my bible says are which can be translated back to the Greek.

But regardless, it says that once Christ was quickened he went to these spirits that were from as far back has the days of Noah.

And if you choose to leave out the verse before, you lose the complete context of both verses.

I Peter 4:5 "Who shall give account to Him That is ready to judge the quick and the dead."

I Peter 4:6 "For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit."

The verse is not stating the dead were preached to. When human spirits are separated from their human bodies at death, the door to salvation is shut to them (Matthew 25:10; Hebrews 9:27).

You don't know your New Testament.

Matthew 25:10 "And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut."

This is talking about Christians waiting for Christ return. Some will fall away during the great tribulation as Paul teaches and this is what that aludes to. Not being ready for when Christ returns and there will be a time when it's too late. We are to be watchman and we are to wait for the true Christ.


Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"

I'm not disagreeing with this verse. But we have to remember, the great white throne judgement has not happened yet. And I'm not saying everyone passes from here on out will be given that chance but it says he is ready to judge the quick and the dead and for "this cause" went to preach the gospel to those that had passed on in the past.

 

[Clare73]

You have not clarified anything. It says that once Christ was quickened he went to these spirits that were from as far back has the days of Noah. And if you choose to leave out the verse before, you lose the complete context of both verses.

That is in another passage (1 Peter 3:18-20), about spirits in prison.
The only spirits in prison are the damned.

And it doesn't say "released," it says "preached" (proclaimed--kerusso).

He proclaimed his victory to the spirits in prison (demons in hell, his enemies and captives)--Jude 6; 2 Peter 2:4.
He took captive those who had taken others captive.

"He led captivity captive in his train" (Ephesians 4:7), "having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross" (Colossians 2:15),
"and gave gifts to men" (the Holy Spirit--Acts 1:4-5)."

But in this passage (1 Peter 4:4-6) it's about preaching the gospel "even to those who are now dead;" i.e., the former living, and about the reasons the gospel is preached, which was explained previously, post #495, above.

I Peter 4:5 "Who shall give account to Him That is ready to judge the quick and the dead."

I Peter 4:6 "For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit."

Matthew 25:10 "And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut."

This is talking about Christians waiting for Christ return. Some will fall away during the great tribulation as Paul teaches and this is what that aludes to. Not being ready for when Christ returns and there will be a time when it's too late. We are to be watchman and we are to wait for the true Christ.

There comes a time when the door is shut, and that time occurs when your life on earth is over.
All that is left is judgment, there is no more gospel offer.

Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"

I'm not disagreeing with this verse. But we have to remember, the great white throne judgement has not happened yet.

But that verse alone excludes any and every thing between death and the judgment, so your understanding cannot be correct. . .not to mention the other Scriptures already presented.

The door is shut (Matthew 25:10) at death to those who have not already entered in.

1 Peter 3:18-20 and 1 Peter 4:4-6 do not present release from prison for spirits.

 

[JulieB67]

your understanding cannot be correct

I guess we'll find out.....

 

[Der Alte]

1 Peter 4:6 - "For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit."
"Now" is not in the Greek. He preached to "those who are dead" while they were still alive, but now are dead.
The gospel is not preached to human spirits after the death of their bodies.

Scriptural evidence that 2 Pet 4:6 does not refer to the gospel being preached to the dead in the grave or hell.

-Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything neither have they any more a reward: for the memory of them is forgotten.
=Isaiah 26:14 They are dead, they shall not live: they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them and made all their memory to Perish.
= Psalms 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
[/\]. Psalms 88:10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead rise and praise thee? Selah.
h Psalms 88:11 Shall thy loving kindness be declared in the grave? thy faithfulness in destruction?
/\ Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
t John 9:4 must work the works of him that sent me. while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
/\ Psalms 30:9
What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth?
h Psalms 115:17
17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
+ Psalms 88:5
5 Free among the dead, like the slain that lie in the grave, whom thou rememberest no more: and they are cut off from thy hand.
+- Proverbs 11:7
7 When a wicked man dieth, his expectation shall perish: and the hope of unjust men perisheth.
+= Proverbs 24:20 for the evildoer has no future hope, and the lamp or the wicked will be snuffed out.
+=. Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee:they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.​

 

[Shrewd Manager]

And you know this is not the gospel freeing the living prisoners of sin and condemnation on earth, how?

If I understand the question correctly Clare, you're now suggesting that Jesus only frees certain prisoners under certain conditions.

As in "I have come to free the prisoners who want to be freed by me while imprisoned in privately operated facilities (but not on remand unless bail was denied and over 12 months have elapsed) situate above earth, before they fall asleep, after they repent if they've softened their hearts but only if they're using the KJV"...?

Is that kind of where you're headed?

You have the power not to fault others for what you do yourself.

I shall redouble efforts to remove the log from mine eye.

My Bible states nothing about Jesus' springing anybody.

'Springing' means releasing, as in Jesus comes to spring the prisoners. I learned it from a street monk.

You've added to your Bible. . .AGAIN!

Lol, it's called commentary. Expositional exegesis if you like. Do you stand up in church and yell that accusation any time a preacher expounds on a verse, or just on special occasions?