David Bentley Hart on Hell

Der Alte

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Lot's of double negatives there der Alte. Very impressive pseudo-mega-apophatic theology.
But none of that precludes salvation of all
.
You evidently do not know what a double negative is. This is a double negative, "I ain't doing nothing." More UR-ite "You're wrong and I'm right! Am to! Nuh huh!"
Please carefully read Rev 22:11.
When the former pagan gentile Christians in Ephesus, Pergamum etc. to whom Rev. was addressed, read/heard this would they think this means everyone is going to be saved no matter what?

Yesterday many who weren't in Christ, now are. Not being in Christ is not a permanent unchangeable state.
Please read the following.
Revelation 21:4-8
4. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Although God said “no more death,” vs. 4 and “I make all things new,” vs. 5, in vs. 8, eight groups of sinful people are cast into the lake of fire, which despite “no more death,” vs 4, is still “the second death.”
…..Note in vs. 7 God specifies conditions i.e. “He that overcomes shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.”
God does not say everyone shall inherit all things etc. The converse of that stated condition is, “He that does NOT overcome shall NOT inherit all things; and I will NOT be his God, and he shall NOT be my son.”
Salvation is not mentioned after this in Rev.

Revelation 22:11-12
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
If everybody has been saved how can there still be unjust and filthy people to remain filthy, etc. Jesus does not say He will save everyone but let the unjust and filthy remain as they are.
Revelation 22:15
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
If everybody has been saved how can there still be dogs, sorcerers, whoremongers, murderers, idolaters and liars?
Revelation 22:18-19
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and OUT of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
If everyone was saved in Rev 21 why are these warnings still in the Bible. Two more verses- The End.
 
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Ceallaigh

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Please carefully read Rev 22:11.
When the former pagan gentile Christians in Ephesus, Pergamum etc. to whom Rev. was addressed, read/heard this would they think this means everyone is going to be saved no matter what?


Please read the following.
Revelation 21:4-8
4. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Although God said “no more death,” vs. 4 and “I make all things new,” vs. 5, in vs. 8, eight groups of sinful people are cast into the lake of fire, which despite “no more death,” vs 4, is still “the second death.”
…..Note in vs. 7 God specifies conditions i.e. “He that overcomes shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.”
God does not say everyone shall inherit all things etc. The converse of that stated condition is, “He that does NOT overcome shall NOT inherit all things; and I will NOT be his God, and he shall NOT be my son.”
Salvation is not mentioned after this in Rev.

Revelation 22:11-12
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
If everybody has been saved how can there still be unjust and filthy people to remain filthy, etc. Jesus does not say He will save everyone but let the unjust and filthy remain as they are.
Revelation 22:15
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
If everybody has been saved how can there still be dogs, sorcerers, whoremongers, murderers, idolaters and liars?
Revelation 22:18-19
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and OUT of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
If everyone was saved in Rev 21 why are these warnings still in the Bible. Two more verses- The End.

I would venture that the universal redemption notion is that those people have yet to be redeemed.
One thing I remember being pointed out, is that the Gates of the Holy City will never be shut (Revelation 21:25).

Also despite what verse 19 says, there are manuscript discrepancies. Even verse 19 itself has manuscript discrepancy between saying "book of life" and "tree of life".

I'm no scholar in these matters. But I know of scholars who have studied these matters thoroughly and have reached different conclusions.
 
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Der Alte

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I would venture that the universal redemption notion is that those people have yet to be redeemed.
One thing I remember being pointed out, is that the Gates of the Holy City will never be shut (Revelation 21:25).
Revelation 21:26-27
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
I wonder if John forgot what he wrote here when he later wrote,
Revelation 22:11-12
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
If everybody has been saved how can there still be unjust and filthy people to remain filthy, etc. Jesus does not say He will save everyone but let the unjust and filthy remain as they are.
Revelation 22:15
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
If everybody has been saved how can there still be dogs, sorcerers, whoremongers, murderers, idolaters and liars?
Also despite what verse 19 says, there are manuscript discrepancies. Even verse 19 itself has manuscript discrepancy between saying "book of life" and "tree of life".
Exactly how much difference do you think "tree of life" and "book of life" makes?
I'm no scholar in these matters. But I know of scholars who have studied these matters thoroughly and have reached different conclusions.
I call that cherry picking "scholars" find somebody somewhere who says what you want to hear. The majority of scholars determined that the mss with "book of life" is the most reliable.
 
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Ceallaigh

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Revelation 21:26-27
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
I wonder if John forgot what he wrote here when he later wrote,
Revelation 22:11-12
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
If everybody has been saved how can there still be unjust and filthy people to remain filthy, etc. Jesus does not say He will save everyone but let the unjust and filthy remain as they are.
Revelation 22:15
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
If everybody has been saved how can there still be dogs, sorcerers, whoremongers, murderers, idolaters and liars?

Exactly how much difference do you think "tree of life" and "book of life" makes?

You're still stuck on if everyone has been saved, when the universal redemption take (as I understand it) is that the show isn't over with at that point, and that they will eventually come to be redeemed - which is why the gates of the Holy City are left open to those who are outside of the city.

I haven't come to a conclusion as to what difference "tree of life" and "book of life" makes, I just noted there is a difference. In the verse that says there are to be none. I just found it a bit ironic if nothing else.

I call that cherry picking "scholars" find somebody somewhere who says what you want to hear. The majority of scholars determined that the mss with "book of life" is the most reliable.

Funny you should say that. The PhD theologian, who actually read David Bentley Hart's Book and who is an expert in Patristics, I submitted your post #398 to said that you were cherry picking.
 
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Der Alte

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You're still stuck on if everyone has been saved, when the universal redemption take (as I understand it) is that the show isn't over with at that point, and that they will eventually come to be redeemed - which is why the gates of the Holy City are left open to those who are outside of the city.
Does not seem to address any of the scripture I posted and commented on. According to the UR view John seems not to have known about or omitted a bunch of stuff at the end of Rev. Care to comment on that?
I haven't come to a conclusion as to what difference "tree of life" and "book of life" makes, I just noted there is a difference. In the verse that says there are to be none. I just found it a bit ironic if nothing else.
In other words irrelevant fluff.
Funny you should say that. The PhD theologian, who actually read David Bentley Hart's Book and who is an expert in Patristics, I submitted your post #398 to said that you were cherry picking.
Hey, I've heard of this guy from quite a few posters "the anonymous Bible expert I know."
How could I be cherry picking when I quoted every ECF who described/defined eternal punishment. Other ECF mentioned eternal punishment but only the ones I quoted defined/described it as eternal. See e.g.

Tertullian
"After the present age is ended he will judge his worshipers for a reward of eternal life and the godless for a fire equally perpetual and unending"
• (Apology 18:3 [A.D. 197]).
To rebut lease feel free to quote some ECF who mention "eternal punishment" and describe/define it as a period less than eternal. Hint: There ain't none.
 
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Ceallaigh

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Does not seem to address any of the scripture I posted and commented on. According to the UR view John seems not to have known about or omitted a bunch of stuff at the end of Rev. Care to comment on that?

Perhaps later. I'm not an expert on UR. And I really don't want to get into arguing back and forth over a bunch of individual scriptures. Maybe I'll give it a go when I have more time during my weekend.

Hey, I've heard of this guy from quite a few posters "the anonymous Bible expert I know."

There's a number of Bible experts people know. I identified this one in post #510

By the way, aren't you yourself anonymous?

How could I be cherry picking when I quoted every ECF who described/defined eternal punishment. Other ECF mentioned eternal punishment but only the ones I quoted defined/described it as eternal. See e.g.
Tertullian
"After the present age is ended he will judge his worshipers for a reward of eternal life and the godless for a fire equally perpetual and unending"
• (Apology 18:3 [A.D. 197]).
To rebut lease feel free to quote some ECF who mention "eternal punishment" and describe/define it as a period less than eternal. Hint: There ain't none.

I'll go ahead and post what he said to me, without bugging him for permission, as I seriously doubt he would mind:

"Not all the fathers agreed with each other. Some are infernalists and some are universalists.

And some of the fathers preached hellfire rhetorically at Christians to make a moral point but in their hymns are unabashedly universalist. Talk about irrefutable... it’s the hymnody that leads the way and is our primary theology: “Let Every Mortal Leap for Joy”: Apocatastatic Hymnody in Orthodox Worship

But if they want to cherrypick infernalism from the fathers, that’s easy enough. Have at it. But I would have deep suspicions that they understood how they thought.

Typed with 1 thumb on iPhone. Please excuse brevity and typos."


If you have a problem with that, take it up with him. Maybe you can get Brad to do a Youtube debate with you.
 
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Der Alte

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Perhaps later. I'm not an expert on UR. And I really don't want to get into arguing back and forth over a bunch of individual scriptures. Maybe I'll give it a go when I have more time during my weekend.
There's a number of Bible experts people know. I identified this one in post #510

By the way, aren't you yourself anonymous?
I'll go ahead and post what he said to me, without bugging him for permission, as I seriously doubt he would mind:
"Not all the fathers agreed with each other. Some are infernalists and some are universalists.

And some of the fathers preached hellfire rhetorically at Christians to make a moral point but in their hymns are unabashedly universalist. Talk about irrefutable... it’s the hymnody that leads the way and is our primary theology: “Let Every Mortal Leap for Joy”: Apocatastatic Hymnody in Orthodox Worship
But if they want to cherrypick infernalism from the fathers, that’s easy enough. Have at it. But I would have deep suspicions that they understood how they thought.
Typed with 1 thumb on iPhone. Please excuse brevity and typos."

If you have a problem with that, take it up with him. Maybe you can get Brad to do a Youtube debate with you.
Yes, I am anonymous, as are you, I do not present myself as an expert I try to quote acknowledged experts in the field.
I realize there were varied view among the ECF, that is irrelevant to my post. I was addressing one specific point eternal punishment and how ECF described/defined "aionios punishment."
I am also aware that Origen is apparently the UR poster boy. However my reading of Origen he is at best inconsistent. Origen in his commentary on John give a very comprehensive definition of "aionios."

(59) He [Heracleon] is not wrong, however, when he says that the water that the Savior gives is of his spirit and power.
(60) And he has explained the statement, “But he shall not thirst forever,” as follows with these very words: For the life he gives is eternal and never perishes, as, indeed, does the first life which comes from the well; the life he gives remains. For the grace and the gift of our Savior is not to be taken away, nor is it consumed, nor does it perish, when one partakes of it.
Origen. (1993). Commentary on the Gospel according to John Books 13–32. (T. P. Halton, Ed., R. E. Heine, Trans.) (Vol. 89, pp. 67–69). Washington, DC: The Catholic University of America Press.
Note eternal life, does not perish 2 X, remains, not taken away, is not consumed.
I would say that is certainly definite.



 
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Ceallaigh

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Yes, I am anonymous, as are you, I do not present myself as an expert I try to quote acknowledged experts in the field.

Well you do put on a bit of a show talking about your seminary degrees and having taught Greek since the Eisenhower administration along with your signature and so on.

I realize there were varied view among the ECF, that is irrelevant to my post. I was addressing one specific point eternal punishment and how ECF described/defined "aionios punishment."
I am also aware that Origen is apparently the UR poster boy. However my reading of Origen he is at best inconsistent. Origen in his commentary on John give a very comprehensive definition of "aionios."
(59) He [Heracleon] is not wrong, however, when he says that the water that the Savior gives is of his spirit and power.
(60) And he has explained the statement, “But he shall not thirst forever,” as follows with these very words: For the life he gives is eternal and never perishes, as, indeed, does the first life which comes from the well; the life he gives remains. For the grace and the gift of our Savior is not to be taken away, nor is it consumed, nor does it perish, when one partakes of it.
Origen. (1993). Commentary on the Gospel according to John Books 13–32. (T. P. Halton, Ed., R. E. Heine, Trans.) (Vol. 89, pp. 67–69). Washington, DC: The Catholic University of America Press.​
Note eternal life, does not perish 2 X, remains, not taken away, is not consumed.
I would say that is certainly definite.

These excerpts you pull don't exactly convey what you seem to want them to, and tend to look like cherry picks. I get the impression that you're not really interested in fully exploring what the early church fathers taught and believed as a whole regarding damnationism, but would rather appeal to them in a selective manner.
 
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Der Alte

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Well you do put on a bit of a show talking about your seminary degrees and having taught Greek since the Eisenhower administration along with your signature and so on.
Falsehood upon falsehood. I don't think I ever mentioned "degree" and certainly not plural. What I have said is I studied both Hebrew and Greek at the graduate level 2 decades after I supervised Greek workers in Germany. Since they did not speak German or English I started learning Greek from them so I could communicate with them. I could not supervise them if they did not understand me. The very first word I learned was trapezi, pronounced trah-pay-zee. One of the Greek workers pointed at a table and said "trapezi." This helped me quite a bit later on when I studied Greek.
These excerpts you pull don't exactly convey what you seem to want them to, and tend to look like cherry picks. I get the impression that you're not really interested in fully exploring what the early church fathers taught and believed as a whole regarding damnationism, but would rather appeal to them in a selective manner.
Judging from both of these responses you don't have a clue what you are talking about.
This is more "You're wrong and I'm right am too. Nuh huh!" If and when I discuss "ECF and eternal punishment" your opinion here might have some merit. As it is you have not addressed my post in any meaningful way. I'm beginning to doubt that you know how.
If you know how, since you have now challenged me twice, how about you quoting 2-3 ECF who clearly do not teach eternal punishment. As I said before I have already refuted the UR poster boy Origen with his own words. And you don't want to know what I think about the UR high priestess, Illaria Ramelli.
 
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Ceallaigh

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Falsehood upon falsehood.
Idon't think I ever mentioned "degree"

"I have a master's degree".

certainly not plural. What I have said is I studied both Hebrew and Greek at the graduate level 2 decades after I supervised Greek workers in Germany. Since they did not speak German or English I started learning Greek from them so I could communicate with them. I could not supervise them if they did not understand me. The very first word I learned was trapezi, pronounced trah-pay-zee. One of the Greek workers pointed at a table and said "trapezi." This helped me quite a bit later on when I studied Greek.

Judging from both of these responses you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Likewise, I'm sure.

This is more "You're wrong and I'm right am too. Nuh huh!" If and when I discuss "ECF and eternal punishment" your opinion here might have some merit. As it is you have not addressed my post in any meaningful way. I'm beginning to doubt that you know how.
If you know how, since you have now challenged me twice, how about you quoting 2-3 ECF who clearly do not teach eternal punishment. As I said before I have already refuted the UR poster boy Origen with his own words. And you don't want to know what I think about the UR high priestess, Illaria Ramelli.

You put on a good show. Very flamboyant.

The mass of men (Christians) say there is to be an end to punishment and to those who are punished.—St. Basil the Great

There are very many in our day, who though not denying the Holy Scriptures, do not believe in endless torments. -- Augustine (354-430 A.D.)

For the wicked there are punishments, not perpetural, however, lest the immortality prepared for them should be a disadvantage, but they are to be purified for a brief period according to the amount of malice in their works. They shall therefore suffer punishment for a short space, but immortal blessedness having no end awaits them...the penalties to be inflicted for their many and grave sins are very far surpassed by the magnitude of the mercy to be showed to them. --Diodore of Tarsus, 320-394 A.D.

And God showed great kindness to man, in this, that He did not suffer him to continue being in sin forever; but as it were, by a kind of banishement, cast him out of paradise in order that, having punishment expiated within an appointed time, and having been disciplined, he should afterwards be recalled...just as a vessel, when one being fashioned it has some flaw, is remoulded or remade that it may become new and entire; so also it happens to man by death. For he is broken up by force, that in the resurrection he may be found whole; I mean spotless, righteous and immortal. --Theophilus of Antioch (168 A.D.)

Wherefore also he drove him out of paradise and removed him far from the tree of life, not because He envied him the tree of life, as some dare assert, but because He pitied him and desired that he should not be immortal and the evil interminable and irremediable. --Iraneaus of Lyons (182 A.D.)

These, if they will, may go Christ's way, but if not let them go their way. In another place perhaps they shall be baptized with fire, that last baptism, which is not only painful, but enduring also; which eats up, as if it were hay, all defiled matter, and consumes all vanity and vice. --Gregory of Nazianzeu, Bishop of Constantinople. (330 to 390 A.D.) Oracles 39:19

The Word seems to me to lay down the doctrine of the perfect obliteration of wickedness, for if God shall be in all things that are, obviously wickedness shall not be in them. For it is necessary that at some time evil should be removed utterly and entirely from the realm of being.—St. Macrina the Blessed

In the end and consummation of the Universe all are to be restored into their original harmonious state, and we all shall be made one body and be united once more into a perfect man and the prayer of our Savior shall be fulfilled that all may be one. --St. Jerome, 331-420

For it is evident that God will in truth be all in all when there shall be no evil in existence, when every created being is at harmony with iteself and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord; when every creature shall have been made one body. --Gregory of Nyssa, 335-390

The wicked who have committed evil the whole period of their lives shall be punished till they learn that, by continuing in sin, they only continue in misery. And when, by this means, they shall have been brought to fear God, and to regard Him with good will, they shall obtain the enjoyment of His grace. --Theodore of Mopsuestia, 350-428

We can set no limits to the agency of the Redeemer to redeem, to rescue, to discipline in his work, and so will he continue to operate after this life. –Clement of Alexandria

Do not suppose that the soul is punished for endless eons (apeirou aionas) in Tartarus. Very properly, the soul is not punished to gratify the revenge of the divinity, but for the sake of healing. But we say that the soul is punished for an aionion period (aionios) calling its life and its allotted period of punishment, its aeon. --Olnmpiodorus (AD 550)

Wherefore, that at the same time liberty of free-will should be left to nature and yet the evil be purged away, the wisdom of God discovered this plan; to suffer man to do what he would, that having tasted the evil which he desired, and learning by experience for what wretchedness he had bartered away the blessings he had, he might of his own will hasten back with desire to the first blessedness ...either being purged in this life through prayer and discipline, or after his departure hence through the furnace of cleansing fire.--Gregory of Nyssa (332-398 A.D.)

That in the world to come, those who have done evil all their life long, will be made worthy of the sweetness of the Divine bounty. For never would Christ have said, "You will never get out until you hqave paid the last penny" unless it were possible for us to get cleansed when we paid the debt. --Peter Chrysologus, 435

I know that most persons understand by the story of Nineveh and its king, the ultimate forgiveness of the devil and all rational creatures. --St. Jerome

"In the end or consummation of things, all shall be restored to their original state, and be again united in one body. We cannot be ignorant that Christ's blood benefited the angels and those who are in hell; though we know not the manner in which it produced such effects. The apostate angels shall become such as they were created; and man, who has been cast out of paradise, shall be restored thither again. And this shall be accomplished in such a way, that all shall be united together by mutual charity, so that the members will delight in each other, and rejoice in each other's promotion. The apostate angels, and the prince of this world, though now ungovernable, plunging themselves into the depths of sin, shall, in the end, embrace the happy dominion of Christ and His saints." – COMMENTARY ON THE NEW TESTAMENT – Jerome (347-420 A.D.)

Our Lord is the One who delivers man [all men], and who heals the inventor of evil himself. -- Gregory of Nyssa (332-398 A.D.), leading theologian of the Eastern Church

While the devil thought to kill One [Christ], he is deprived of all those cast out of hades, and he [the devil] sitting by the gates, sees all fettered beings led forth by the courage of the Saviour.--Athanasius, the Great Father of Orthodoxy

Our Lord descends, and was shut up in the eternal bars, in order that He might set free all who had been shut up... The Lord descended to the place of punishment and torment, in which was the rich man, in order to liberate the prisoners. --Jerome

In the liberation of all no one remains a captive! At the time of the Lord's passion the devil alone was injured by losing all the of the captives he was keeping. --Didymus, 370 AD

While the devil imagined that he got a hold of Christ, he really lost all of those he was keeping. --St. Chrysostom, 398 AD

Stronger than all the evils in the soul is the Word, and the healing power that dwells in him, and this healing He applies, according to the will of God, to everyman. The consummation of all things is the destruction of evil…to quote Zephaniah: “My determination to gather the nations, that I am assemble the kings, to pour upon them mine indignation, even say all my fierce anger, for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy. For then will I turn to the people a pure language that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve Him with one consent”…Consider carefully the promise, that all shall call upon the Name of the Lord, and serve him with one consent.—Origen (185 to 254 A.D.) He founded a school at Caesarea, and is considered by historians to be one of the great theologians and exegete of the Eastern Church.

The nations are gathered to the Judgment, that on them may be poured out the wrath of the fury of the Lord, and this in pity and with a design to heal. in order that every one may return to the confession of the Lord, that in Jesus' Name every knee may bow, and every tongue may confess that He is Lord. All God's enemies shall perish, not that they cease to exist, but cease to be enemies.—Jerome (340 to 420 A.D), commenting on Zephaniah 3:8-10

Mankind, being reclaimed from their sins, are to be subjected to Christ in he fullness of the dispensation instituted for the salvation of all. –Didymus the Blind

So then, when the end has been restored to the beginning, and the termination of things compared with their commencement, that condition of things will be re-established in which rational nature was placed, when it had no need to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; so that when all feeling of wickedness has been removed, and the individual has been purified and cleansed, He who alone is the one good God becomes to him "all," and that not in the case of a few individuals, or of a considerable number, but He Himself is "all in all." And when death shall no longer anywhere exist, nor the sting of death, nor any evil at all, then verily God will be "all in all" --Origen, De Prinicipiis, 3.6.3. (Origen founded a school at Caesarea, and is considered by historians to be one of the great theologians and exegete of the Eastern Church.)

The Son "breaking in pieces" His enemies is for the sake of remolding them, as a potter his own work; as Jeremiah 18;6 says: i.e., to restore them once again to their former state. --Eusebius of Caesarea (65 to 340 A.D). Bishop of Caesarea

Our Savior has appointed two kinds of resurrection in the Apocalypse. 'Blessed is he that hath part in the first resurrection,' for such come to grace without the judgment. As for those who do not come to the first, but are reserved unto the second resurrection, these shall be disciplined until their appointed times, between the first and the second resurrection.-- Ambrose, Bishop of Milan (340-397 A.D.)

We think, indeed, that the goodness of God, through His Christ, may recall all His creatures to one end, even His enemies being conquered and subdued.... for Christ must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet. --Origen (185 to 254 A.D.) He founded a school at Caesarea, and is considered by historians to be one of the great theologians and exegete of the Eastern Church.

For it is needful that evil should some day be wholly and absolutely removed out of the circle of being. --Gregory of Nyssa (332-398 A.D.), leading theologian of the Eastern Church

In the present life God is in all, for His nature is without limits, but he is not all in all. But in the coming life, when mortality is at an end and immortality granted, and sin has no longer any place, God will be all in all. For the Lord, who loves man, punishes medicinally, that He may check the course of impeity. --Theodoret the Blessed, 387-458

When death shall no longer exist, or the sting of death, nor any evil at all, then truly God will be all in all. --Origen

All men are Christ's, some by knowing Him, the rest not yet. He is the Savior, not of some and the rest not. For how is He Savior and Lord, if not the Savior and Lord of all?—Clement of Alexandria
 
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Der Alte

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"I have a master's degree".
I was asked about my education. That is certainly not plural as you accused.
Likewise, I'm sure.
You put on a good show. Very flamboyant.
The mass of men (Christians) say there is to be an end to punishment and to those who are punished.—St. Basil the Great
There are very many in our day, who though not denying the Holy Scriptures, do not believe in endless torments. -- Augustine (354-430 A.D.)
For the wicked there are punishments, not perpetural, however, lest the immortality prepared for them should be a disadvantage, but they are to be purified for a brief period according to the amount of malice in their works. They shall therefore suffer punishment for a short space, but immortal blessedness having no end awaits them...the penalties to be inflicted for their many and grave sins are very far surpassed by the magnitude of the mercy to be showed to them. --Diodore of Tarsus, 320-394 A.D.
And God showed great kindness to man, in this, that He did not suffer him to continue being in sin forever; but as it were, by a kind of banishement, cast him out of paradise in order that, having punishment expiated within an appointed time, and having been disciplined, he should afterwards be recalled...just as a vessel, when one being fashioned it has some flaw, is remoulded or remade that it may become new and entire; so also it happens to man by death. For he is broken up by force, that in the resurrection he may be found whole; I mean spotless, righteous and immortal. --Theophilus of Antioch (168 A.D.)
Wherefore also he drove him out of paradise and removed him far from the tree of life, not because He envied him the tree of life, as some dare assert, but because He pitied him and desired that he should not be immortal and the evil interminable and irremediable. --Iraneaus of Lyons (182 A.D.)
These, if they will, may go Christ's way, but if not let them go their way. In another place perhaps they shall be baptized with fire, that last baptism, which is not only painful, but enduring also; which eats up, as if it were hay, all defiled matter, and consumes all vanity and vice. --Gregory of Nazianzeu, Bishop of Constantinople. (330 to 390 A.D.) Oracles 39:19
The Word seems to me to lay down the doctrine of the perfect obliteration of wickedness, for if God shall be in all things that are, obviously wickedness shall not be in them. For it is necessary that at some time evil should be removed utterly and entirely from the realm of being.—St. Macrina the Blessed
In the end and consummation of the Universe all are to be restored into their original harmonious state, and we all shall be made one body and be united once more into a perfect man and the prayer of our Savior shall be fulfilled that all may be one. --St. Jerome, 331-420
For it is evident that God will in truth be all in all when there shall be no evil in existence, when every created being is at harmony with iteself and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord; when every creature shall have been made one body. --Gregory of Nyssa, 335-390
The wicked who have committed evil the whole period of their lives shall be punished till they learn that, by continuing in sin, they only continue in misery. And when, by this means, they shall have been brought to fear God, and to regard Him with good will, they shall obtain the enjoyment of His grace. --Theodore of Mopsuestia, 350-428

We can set no limits to the agency of the Redeemer to redeem, to rescue, to discipline in his work, and so will he continue to operate after this life. –Clement of Alexandria
Do not suppose that the soul is punished for endless eons (apeirou aionas) in Tartarus. Very properly, the soul is not punished to gratify the revenge of the divinity, but for the sake of healing. But we say that the soul is punished for an aionion period (aionios) calling its life and its allotted period of punishment, its aeon. --Olnmpiodorus (AD 550)
Wherefore, that at the same time liberty of free-will should be left to nature and yet the evil be purged away, the wisdom of God discovered this plan; to suffer man to do what he would, that having tasted the evil which he desired, and learning by experience for what wretchedness he had bartered away the blessings he had, he might of his own will hasten back with desire to the first blessedness ...either being purged in this life through prayer and discipline, or after his departure hence through the furnace of cleansing fire.--Gregory of Nyssa (332-398 A.D.)
That in the world to come, those who have done evil all their life long, will be made worthy of the sweetness of the Divine bounty. For never would Christ have said, "You will never get out until you hqave paid the last penny" unless it were possible for us to get cleansed when we paid the debt. --Peter Chrysologus, 435
I know that most persons understand by the story of Nineveh and its king, the ultimate forgiveness of the devil and all rational creatures. --St. Jerome
"In the end or consummation of things, all shall be restored to their original state, and be again united in one body. We cannot be ignorant that Christ's blood benefited the angels and those who are in hell; though we know not the manner in which it produced such effects. The apostate angels shall become such as they were created; and man, who has been cast out of paradise, shall be restored thither again. And this shall be accomplished in such a way, that all shall be united together by mutual charity, so that the members will delight in each other, and rejoice in each other's promotion. The apostate angels, and the prince of this world, though now ungovernable, plunging themselves into the depths of sin, shall, in the end, embrace the happy dominion of Christ and His saints." – COMMENTARY ON THE NEW TESTAMENT – Jerome (347-420 A.D.)
Our Lord is the One who delivers man [all men], and who heals the inventor of evil himself. -- Gregory of Nyssa (332-398 A.D.), leading theologian of the Eastern Church
While the devil thought to kill One [Christ], he is deprived of all those cast out of hades, and he [the devil] sitting by the gates, sees all fettered beings led forth by the courage of the Saviour.--Athanasius, the Great Father of Orthodoxy
Our Lord descends, and was shut up in the eternal bars, in order that He might set free all who had been shut up... The Lord descended to the place of punishment and torment, in which was the rich man, in order to liberate the prisoners. --Jerome

In the liberation of all no one remains a captive! At the time of the Lord's passion the devil alone was injured by losing all the of the captives he was keeping. --Didymus, 370 AD
While the devil imagined that he got a hold of Christ, he really lost all of those he was keeping. --St. Chrysostom, 398 AD
Stronger than all the evils in the soul is the Word, and the healing power that dwells in him, and this healing He applies, according to the will of God, to everyman. The consummation of all things is the destruction of evil…to quote Zephaniah: “My determination to gather the nations, that I am assemble the kings, to pour upon them mine indignation, even say all my fierce anger, for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy. For then will I turn to the people a pure language that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve Him with one consent”…Consider carefully the promise, that all shall call upon the Name of the Lord, and serve him with one consent.—Origen (185 to 254 A.D.) He founded a school at Caesarea, and is considered by historians to be one of the great theologians and exegete of the Eastern Church.
The nations are gathered to the Judgment, that on them may be poured out the wrath of the fury of the Lord, and this in pity and with a design to heal. in order that every one may return to the confession of the Lord, that in Jesus' Name every knee may bow, and every tongue may confess that He is Lord. All God's enemies shall perish, not that they cease to exist, but cease to be enemies.—Jerome (340 to 420 A.D), commenting on Zephaniah 3:8-10
Mankind, being reclaimed from their sins, are to be subjected to Christ in he fullness of the dispensation instituted for the salvation of all. –Didymus the Blind
So then, when the end has been restored to the beginning, and the termination of things compared with their commencement, that condition of things will be re-established in which rational nature was placed, when it had no need to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; so that when all feeling of wickedness has been removed, and the individual has been purified and cleansed, He who alone is the one good God becomes to him "all," and that not in the case of a few individuals, or of a considerable number, but He Himself is "all in all." And when death shall no longer anywhere exist, nor the sting of death, nor any evil at all, then verily God will be "all in all" --Origen, De Prinicipiis, 3.6.3. (Origen founded a school at Caesarea, and is considered by historians to be one of the great theologians and exegete of the Eastern Church.)
The Son "breaking in pieces" His enemies is for the sake of remolding them, as a potter his own work; as Jeremiah 18;6 says: i.e., to restore them once again to their former state. --Eusebius of Caesarea (65 to 340 A.D). Bishop of Caesarea
Our Savior has appointed two kinds of resurrection in the Apocalypse. 'Blessed is he that hath part in the first resurrection,' for such come to grace without the judgment. As for those who do not come to the first, but are reserved unto the second resurrection, these shall be disciplined until their appointed times, between the first and the second resurrection.-- Ambrose, Bishop of Milan (340-397 A.D.)
We think, indeed, that the goodness of God, through His Christ, may recall all His creatures to one end, even His enemies being conquered and subdued.... for Christ must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet. --Origen (185 to 254 A.D.) He founded a school at Caesarea, and is considered by historians to be one of the great theologians and exegete of the Eastern Church.
For it is needful that evil should some day be wholly and absolutely removed out of the circle of being. --Gregory of Nyssa (332-398 A.D.), leading theologian of the Eastern Church
In the present life God is in all, for His nature is without limits, but he is not all in all. But in the coming life, when mortality is at an end and immortality granted, and sin has no longer any place, God will be all in all. For the Lord, who loves man, punishes medicinally, that He may check the course of impeity. --Theodoret the Blessed, 387-458
When death shall no longer exist, or the sting of death, nor any evil at all, then truly God will be all in all. --Origen
All men are Christ's, some by knowing Him, the rest not yet. He is the Savior, not of some and the rest not. For how is He Savior and Lord, if not the Savior and Lord of all?—Clement of Alexandria
Have you actually read any of these? This is the standard copy/paste from URitesRUS.C0M
The problem with this cut and paste is none of them identify the specific writing from which these quotes are supposedly taken.
Most are post Nicaea. Now lets take a look at my own research of the Ante-Nicene fathers.

[Character limit continued next post]
 
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[Previous post continued]

Second Clement 5:5 [A.D. 150]).
"If we do the will of Christ, we shall obtain rest; but if not, if we neglect his commandments, nothing will rescue us from eternal punishment"
• (Second Clement ibid., 17:7)
"But when they see how those who have sinned and who have denied Jesus by their words or by their deeds are punished with terrible torture in unquenchable fire, the righteous, who have done good, and who have endured tortures and have hated the luxuries of life, will give glory to their God saying, ‘There shall be hope for him that has served God with all his heart!’".
Ignatius of Antioch[a student of John]
"Corrupters of families will not inherit the kingdom of God. And if they who do these things according to the flesh suffer death, how much more if a man corrupt by evil teaching the faith of God for the sake of which Jesus Christ was crucified? A man become so foul will depart into unquenchable fire: and so will anyone who listens to him" (Letter to the Ephesians 16:1–2 [A.D. 110]).
Justin Martyr
"No more is it possible for the evildoer, the avaricious, and the treacherous to hide from God than it is for the virtuous. Every man will receive the eternal punishment or reward which his actions deserve. Indeed, if all men recognized this, no one would choose evil even for a short time, knowing that he would incur the eternal sentence of fire. On the contrary, he would take every means to control himself and to adorn himself in virtue, so that he might obtain the good gifts of God and escape the punishments"
• (First Apology 12 [A.D. 151]).
"We have been taught that only they may aim at immortality who have lived a holy and virtuous life near to God. We believe that they who live wickedly and do not repent will be punished in everlasting fire" (ibid., 21).
"[Jesus] shall come from the heavens in glory with his angelic host, when he shall raise the bodies of all the men who ever lived. Then he will clothe the worthy in immortality; but the wicked, clothed in eternal sensibility, he will commit to the eternal fire, along with the evil demons" (ibid., 52).
The Martyrdom of Polycarp
"Fixing their minds on the grace of Christ, [the martyrs] despised worldly tortures and purchased eternal life with but a single hour. To them, the fire of their cruel torturers was cold. They kept before their eyes their escape from the eternal and unquenchable fire"
• (Martyrdom of Polycarp 2:3 [A.D. 155]).
Mathetes
"When you know what is the true life, that of heaven; when you despise the merely apparent death, which is temporal; when you fear the death which is real, and which is reserved for those who will be condemned to the everlasting fire, the fire which will punish even to the end those who are delivered to it, then you will condemn the deceit and error of the world" (Letter to Diognetus 10:7 [A.D. 160]).
Athenagoras
"[W]e [Christians] are persuaded that when we are removed from this present life we shall live another life, better than the present one. . . . Then we shall abide near God and with God, changeless and free from suffering in the soul . . . or if we fall with the rest [of mankind], a worse one and in fire; for God has not made us as sheep or beasts of burden, a mere incidental work, that we should perish and be annihilated" (Plea for the Christians 31 [A.D. 177]).
Theophilus of Antioch
"Give studious attention to the prophetic writings [the Bible] and they will lead you on a clearer path to escape the eternal punishments and to obtain the eternal good things of God. . . . [God] will examine everything and will judge justly, granting recompense to each according to merit. To those who seek immortality by the patient exercise of good works, he will give everlasting life, joy, peace, rest, and all good things. . . . For the unbelievers and for the contemptuous, and for those who do not submit to the truth but assent to iniquity, when they have been involved in adulteries, and fornications, and homosexualities, and avarice, and in lawless idolatries, there will be wrath and indignation, tribulation and anguish; and in the end, such men as these will be detained in everlasting fire" (To Autolycus 1:14 [A.D. 181])
Irenaeus[Student of Polycarp a student of John]
"[God will] send the spiritual forces of wickedness, and the angels who transgressed and became apostates, and the impious, unjust, lawless, and blasphemous among men into everlasting fire" (Against Heresies 1:10:1 [A.D. 189]).
"The penalty increases for those who do not believe the Word of God and despise his coming. . . . t is not merely temporal, but eternal. To whomsoever the Lord shall say, ‘Depart from me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire,’ they will be damned forever" (ibid., 4:28:2).
Tertullian
"After the present age is ended he will judge his worshipers for a reward of eternal life and the godless for a fire equally perpetual and unending"
• (Apology 18:3 [A.D. 197]).
"Then will the entire race of men be restored to receive its just deserts according to what it has merited in this period of good and evil, and thereafter to have these paid out in an immeasurable and unending eternity. Then there will be neither death again nor resurrection again, but we shall be always the same as we are now, without changing. The worshipers of God shall always be with God, clothed in the proper substance of eternity. But the godless and those who have not turned wholly to God will be punished in fire equally unending, and they shall have from the very nature of this fire, divine as it were, a supply of incorruptibility" (ibid., 44:12–13).
Hippolytus
"Standing before [Christ’s] judgment, all of them, men, angels, and demons, crying out in one voice, shall say: ‘Just is your judgment!’ And the righteousness of that cry will be apparent in the recompense made to each. To those who have done well, everlasting enjoyment shall be given; while to the lovers of evil shall be given eternal punishment. The unquenchable and unending fire awaits these latter, and a certain fiery worm which does not die and which does not waste the body but continually bursts forth from the body with unceasing pain. No sleep will give them rest; no night will soothe them; no death will deliver them from punishment; no appeal of interceding friends will profit them" (Against the Greeks 3 [A.D. 212]).
Minucius Felix
"I am not ignorant of the fact that many, in the consciousness of what they deserve, would rather hope than actually believe that there is nothing for them after death. They would prefer to be annihilated rather than be restored for punishment. . . . Nor is there either measure nor end to these torments. That clever fire burns the limbs and restores them, wears them away and yet sustains them, just as fiery thunderbolts strike bodies but do not consume them" (Octavius 34:12–5:3 [A.D. 226]).
Cyprian of Carthage
"An ever-burning Gehenna and the punishment of being devoured by living flames will consume the condemned; nor will there be any way in which the tormented can ever have respite or be at an end. Souls along with their bodies will be preserved for suffering in unlimited agonies. . . . The grief at punishment will then be without the fruit of repentance; weeping will be useless, and prayer ineffectual. Too late will they believe in eternal punishment, who would not believe in eternal life" (To Demetrian 24 [A.D. 252]).
Lactantius
"[T]he sacred writings inform us in what manner the wicked are to undergo punishment. For because they have committed sins in their bodies, they will again be clothed with flesh, that they may make atonement in their bodies; and yet it will not be that flesh with which God clothed man, like this our earthly body, but indestructible, and abiding forever, that it may be able to hold out against tortures and everlasting fire, the nature of which is different from this fire of ours, which we use for the necessary purposes of life, and which is extinguished unless it be sustained by the fuel of some material. But that divine fire always lives by itself, and flourishes without any nourishment. . . . The same divine fire, therefore, with one and the same force and power, will both burn the wicked and will form them again, and will replace as much as it shall consume of their bodies, and will supply itself with eternal nourishment. . . . Thus, without any wasting of bodies, which regain their substance, it will only burn and affect them with a sense of pain. But when [God] shall have judged the righteous, he will also try them with fire" (Divine Institutes 7:21 [A.D. 307]).
Cyril of Jerusalem
"We shall be raised therefore, all with our bodies eternal, but not all with bodies alike: for if a man is righteous, he will receive a heavenly body, that he may be able worthily to hold converse with angels; but if a man is a sinner, he shall receive an eternal body, fitted to endure the penalties of sins, that he may burn eternally in fire, nor ever be consumed. And righteously will God assign this portion to either company; for we do nothing without the body. We blaspheme with the mouth, and with the mouth we pray. … Since then the body has been our minister in all things, it shall also share with us in the future the fruits of the past" (Catechetical Lectures 18:19 [A.D. 350]).


 
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Ceallaigh

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I was asked about my education. That is certainly not plural as you accused.

Just within this week: "I try to research what I post with the same diligence that I used when working on my degrees". Am I The Only One

It's like I said bro, despite your denials.

Have you actually read any of these? This is the standard copy/paste from URitesRUS.C0M
The problem with this cut and paste is none of them identify the specific writing from which these quotes are supposedly taken.
Most are post Nicaea. Now lets take a look at my own research of the Ante-Nicene fathers.

[Character limit continued next post]

I've never heard of "URitesRUS.C0M". I looked it up, but all I found were articles about the uterus. I produced what you asked for, and this is the thanks I get. "My copy and paste is better than yours!" I can see by looking at your post history that you've been a diehard damnationist here for at least 15 years, so I'm sure you're way ahead of me, with copies of the same stuff you've been posting all that time.
 
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Ceallaigh

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[Previous post continued]

Second Clement 5:5 [A.D. 150]).
"If we do the will of Christ, we shall obtain rest; but if not, if we neglect his commandments, nothing will rescue us from eternal punishment"
• (Second Clement ibid., 17:7)
"But when they see how those who have sinned and who have denied Jesus by their words or by their deeds are punished with terrible torture in unquenchable fire, the righteous, who have done good, and who have endured tortures and have hated the luxuries of life, will give glory to their God saying, ‘There shall be hope for him that has served God with all his heart!’".
Ignatius of Antioch[a student of John]
"Corrupters of families will not inherit the kingdom of God. And if they who do these things according to the flesh suffer death, how much more if a man corrupt by evil teaching the faith of God for the sake of which Jesus Christ was crucified? A man become so foul will depart into unquenchable fire: and so will anyone who listens to him" (Letter to the Ephesians 16:1–2 [A.D. 110]).
Justin Martyr
"No more is it possible for the evildoer, the avaricious, and the treacherous to hide from God than it is for the virtuous. Every man will receive the eternal punishment or reward which his actions deserve. Indeed, if all men recognized this, no one would choose evil even for a short time, knowing that he would incur the eternal sentence of fire. On the contrary, he would take every means to control himself and to adorn himself in virtue, so that he might obtain the good gifts of God and escape the punishments"
• (First Apology 12 [A.D. 151]).
"We have been taught that only they may aim at immortality who have lived a holy and virtuous life near to God. We believe that they who live wickedly and do not repent will be punished in everlasting fire" (ibid., 21).
"[Jesus] shall come from the heavens in glory with his angelic host, when he shall raise the bodies of all the men who ever lived. Then he will clothe the worthy in immortality; but the wicked, clothed in eternal sensibility, he will commit to the eternal fire, along with the evil demons" (ibid., 52).
The Martyrdom of Polycarp
"Fixing their minds on the grace of Christ, [the martyrs] despised worldly tortures and purchased eternal life with but a single hour. To them, the fire of their cruel torturers was cold. They kept before their eyes their escape from the eternal and unquenchable fire"
• (Martyrdom of Polycarp 2:3 [A.D. 155]).
Mathetes
"When you know what is the true life, that of heaven; when you despise the merely apparent death, which is temporal; when you fear the death which is real, and which is reserved for those who will be condemned to the everlasting fire, the fire which will punish even to the end those who are delivered to it, then you will condemn the deceit and error of the world" (Letter to Diognetus 10:7 [A.D. 160]).
Athenagoras
"[W]e [Christians] are persuaded that when we are removed from this present life we shall live another life, better than the present one. . . . Then we shall abide near God and with God, changeless and free from suffering in the soul . . . or if we fall with the rest [of mankind], a worse one and in fire; for God has not made us as sheep or beasts of burden, a mere incidental work, that we should perish and be annihilated" (Plea for the Christians 31 [A.D. 177]).
Theophilus of Antioch
"Give studious attention to the prophetic writings [the Bible] and they will lead you on a clearer path to escape the eternal punishments and to obtain the eternal good things of God. . . . [God] will examine everything and will judge justly, granting recompense to each according to merit. To those who seek immortality by the patient exercise of good works, he will give everlasting life, joy, peace, rest, and all good things. . . . For the unbelievers and for the contemptuous, and for those who do not submit to the truth but assent to iniquity, when they have been involved in adulteries, and fornications, and homosexualities, and avarice, and in lawless idolatries, there will be wrath and indignation, tribulation and anguish; and in the end, such men as these will be detained in everlasting fire" (To Autolycus 1:14 [A.D. 181])
Irenaeus[Student of Polycarp a student of John]
"[God will] send the spiritual forces of wickedness, and the angels who transgressed and became apostates, and the impious, unjust, lawless, and blasphemous among men into everlasting fire" (Against Heresies 1:10:1 [A.D. 189]).
"The penalty increases for those who do not believe the Word of God and despise his coming. . . . t is not merely temporal, but eternal. To whomsoever the Lord shall say, ‘Depart from me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire,’ they will be damned forever" (ibid., 4:28:2).
Tertullian
"After the present age is ended he will judge his worshipers for a reward of eternal life and the godless for a fire equally perpetual and unending"
• (Apology 18:3 [A.D. 197]).
"Then will the entire race of men be restored to receive its just deserts according to what it has merited in this period of good and evil, and thereafter to have these paid out in an immeasurable and unending eternity. Then there will be neither death again nor resurrection again, but we shall be always the same as we are now, without changing. The worshipers of God shall always be with God, clothed in the proper substance of eternity. But the godless and those who have not turned wholly to God will be punished in fire equally unending, and they shall have from the very nature of this fire, divine as it were, a supply of incorruptibility" (ibid., 44:12–13).
Hippolytus
"Standing before [Christ’s] judgment, all of them, men, angels, and demons, crying out in one voice, shall say: ‘Just is your judgment!’ And the righteousness of that cry will be apparent in the recompense made to each. To those who have done well, everlasting enjoyment shall be given; while to the lovers of evil shall be given eternal punishment. The unquenchable and unending fire awaits these latter, and a certain fiery worm which does not die and which does not waste the body but continually bursts forth from the body with unceasing pain. No sleep will give them rest; no night will soothe them; no death will deliver them from punishment; no appeal of interceding friends will profit them" (Against the Greeks 3 [A.D. 212]).
Minucius Felix
"I am not ignorant of the fact that many, in the consciousness of what they deserve, would rather hope than actually believe that there is nothing for them after death. They would prefer to be annihilated rather than be restored for punishment. . . . Nor is there either measure nor end to these torments. That clever fire burns the limbs and restores them, wears them away and yet sustains them, just as fiery thunderbolts strike bodies but do not consume them" (Octavius 34:12–5:3 [A.D. 226]).
Cyprian of Carthage
"An ever-burning Gehenna and the punishment of being devoured by living flames will consume the condemned; nor will there be any way in which the tormented can ever have respite or be at an end. Souls along with their bodies will be preserved for suffering in unlimited agonies. . . . The grief at punishment will then be without the fruit of repentance; weeping will be useless, and prayer ineffectual. Too late will they believe in eternal punishment, who would not believe in eternal life" (To Demetrian 24 [A.D. 252]).
Lactantius
"[T]he sacred writings inform us in what manner the wicked are to undergo punishment. For because they have committed sins in their bodies, they will again be clothed with flesh, that they may make atonement in their bodies; and yet it will not be that flesh with which God clothed man, like this our earthly body, but indestructible, and abiding forever, that it may be able to hold out against tortures and everlasting fire, the nature of which is different from this fire of ours, which we use for the necessary purposes of life, and which is extinguished unless it be sustained by the fuel of some material. But that divine fire always lives by itself, and flourishes without any nourishment. . . . The same divine fire, therefore, with one and the same force and power, will both burn the wicked and will form them again, and will replace as much as it shall consume of their bodies, and will supply itself with eternal nourishment. . . . Thus, without any wasting of bodies, which regain their substance, it will only burn and affect them with a sense of pain. But when [God] shall have judged the righteous, he will also try them with fire" (Divine Institutes 7:21 [A.D. 307]).
Cyril of Jerusalem
"We shall be raised therefore, all with our bodies eternal, but not all with bodies alike: for if a man is righteous, he will receive a heavenly body, that he may be able worthily to hold converse with angels; but if a man is a sinner, he shall receive an eternal body, fitted to endure the penalties of sins, that he may burn eternally in fire, nor ever be consumed. And righteously will God assign this portion to either company; for we do nothing without the body. We blaspheme with the mouth, and with the mouth we pray. … Since then the body has been our minister in all things, it shall also share with us in the future the fruits of the past" (Catechetical Lectures 18:19 [A.D. 350]).
So where did you copy those from, DAMNation.COM?
 
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Der Alte

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So where did you copy those from, DAMNation.COM?
Unlike you I gave a full identification of each source. Some was online most was from my Bible program which has the standard nine volume collection.
Let me explain how to do the research take this source, for instance, Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures 18:19. Type it in google and it should give you a few links.
 
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Der Alte

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Just within this week: "I try to research what I post with the same diligence that I used when working on my degrees". Am I The Only One
It's like I said bro, despite your denials
.
Still does not constitute boasting. Just for your info since you seem not to know. One must have a bachelor's degree before you can get a master's.
I've never heard of "URitesRUS.C0M". I looked it up, but all I found were articles about the uterus. I produced what you asked for, and this is the thanks I get. "My copy and paste is better than yours!" I can see by looking at your post history that you've been a diehard damnationist here for at least 15 years, so I'm sure you're way ahead of me, with copies of the same stuff you've been posting all that time.
Of course you have not heard of "URitesRUS.C0M" that is my short hand for any "Hell no" website from which most UR-ites copy-paste their posts. Most UR-ites have never seen a primary source.
 
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Ceallaigh

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Unlike you I gave a full identification of each source. Some was online most was from my Bible program which has the standard nine volume collection.
Let me explain how to do the research take this source, for instance, Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures 18:19. Type it in google and it should give you a few links.

Oh that's right, you have a program. I'm just getting started with this who has the biggest quote contest. I haven't gotten around to adding software to it yet. Wait until I get the algorithm going. Thanks for explaining that google thingy to me.
 
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Ceallaigh

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Still does not constitute boasting. Just for your info since you seem not to know. One must have a bachelor's degree before you can get a master's.
Bro, the whole attitude comes off as boastful, the way you talk down to people ie "just for your info as you don't seem to know" etc. Lots of people went to college and got a masters. Most of them don't go on about it the way you do. And then on top of that you called me a liar and categorically denied doing so.

Of course you have not heard of "URitesRUS.C0M" that is my short hand for any "Hell no" website from which most UR-ites copy-paste their posts. Most UR-ites have never seen a primary source.

Well of course, they're idiots and you're brilliant. They never had to write a paper backed by credible sources and peer-reviewed research... and it absolutely shows.
 
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Der Alte

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Oh that's right, you have a program. I'm just getting started with this who has the biggest quote contest. I haven't gotten around to adding software to it yet. Wait until I get the algorithm going. Thanks for explaining that google thingy to me.
I use ESword which is free has, guessing, about 40 Bible versions and many other modules. Most Bible versions are free. I had to pay for NIV. ECF is an add on module. I have Blue Letter Bible on my phone . I prefer ESword.
Have you ever seen the movie "Road House" with Patrick Swayze? When he takes a new job he tells the staff "Be nice until it is time to not be nice."
 
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Ceallaigh

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I use ESword which is free has, guessing, about 40 Bible versions and many other modules. Most Bible versions are free. I had to pay for NIV. ECF is an add on module. I have Blue Letter Bible on my phone . I prefer ESword.
Have you ever seen the movie "Road House" with Patrick Swayze? When he takes a new job he tells the staff "Be nice until it is time to not be nice."

A movie about barroom brawls is your online behavior model towards fellow Christians? The problem for me is that tends to rub off and I start fighting fire with fire, so I'm gonna have to say via con Dios. Happy clobbering :)
 
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