Daniel 12:1 and Luke 21 same event?

[Erik Nelson]

1. According to Jesus, Jerusalem is punished for all righteous blood shed.

For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and you have given them blood to drink. It is what they deserve!”
Revelation 16:6 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Revelation 16:6&version=ESV

35 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
Matthew 23:35-36 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 23:35-36&version=ESV

2. The great city is Jerusalem

The great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell, and God remembered Babylon the great, to make her drain the cup of the wine of the fury of his wrath.
Revelation 16:19 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Revelation 16:19&version=ESV

and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.
Revelation 11:8 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Revelation 11:8&version=ESV

"No prophet can die outside Jerusalem" Luke 13:33.

"Babylon drunk with the blood of the Saints" Revelation 17:6.

 

[Erik Nelson]

After the demolition of Jerusalem, what was left there to occupy?
The way Josephus describes it, it was almost like an atom bomb hit it..........

Matthew 24:15
“So when you see the abomination of desolation/erhmwsewV<2050> spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),
Mark 13:14
“But when you see the abomination of desolation/erhmwsewV<2050> standing where he ought not to be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains
Luke 21:20
"whenever yet ye may be seeing being surrounded by troops, the Jerusalem, then be knowing! that has-neared the desolating/erhmwsiV <2050> of Her"

Revelation 18:19
And they cast dust upon their heads and cried-out, weeping and mourning, saying "Woe! Woe! the great city, wherein all were made rich, that had ships at sea, by reason of her prices.
That to one hour She was desolated/hrhmwqh <2049>.

http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm

In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition/desolating of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely leveled the whole circuit of the city, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings.

Thus was this great City, which only five months before, had been crowded with nearly two millions of people, who gloried in its impregnable strength, entirely depopulated, and leveled with the ground. And thus, also was our LORD'S prediction, that her enemies should "lay her even with the ground," and "should not leave in her one stone upon another, " (Luke xix. 44.) most strikingly and fully accomplished !

Agreed think it's there for quite possible that Herod's temple originally stood over the Gihon spring. On Mount Zion. In the Davidic. Old city. And yet the Romans having dug up the foundations left no traces of it for modern archeologists. To find.

 

[Douggg]

God said He would bring them back into the land after their captivity/exile in 70ad , nothing about there not being non-Israelites also living in it....

I think you were making the point that gentiles have not occupied the land during the time of the gentiles.

I was just pointing out that is not exactly accurate, as there was the time of crusaders, and the ottoman Turks, although there was also some times of little activity.

There are plenty of Gentiles in the middle east right now claiming they occupied the land - during the time of the gentiles; i.e. while the Jews had been scattered into the nations.

 

[Douggg]

Agreed think it's there for quite possible that Herod's temple originally stood over the Gihon spring. On Mount Zion. In the Davidic. Old city. And yet the Romans having dug up the foundations left no traces of it for modern archeologists. To find.

What I have heard recently, is that second temple was not that big, until heord went on an expansion program to make room for the money ex-changers - as a way of bringing in some wealth to his coffers.

What the Jews are currently praying at, the wailing wall ,was not actually part of the second temple, but part of the expansion by Herod for his own greed.

 

[Erik Nelson]

The resurrection of just and unjust is in Daniel 12. This is the final judgment no?

Thanks for that reference. Daniel 12:4 refers to knowledge. I offer that the knowledge refers back to the tree of knowledge in Eden.

Meanwhile, to answer your question. This seems to happen a lot. Daniel 12 refers to a resurrection, which most naturally refers to the final judgment and final resurrection. And yet the very first verse of Daniel 12, seems to refer to the Olivet Discourse, which applies to Jerusalem in 70ad. Just like Ezekiel 39 is echoed in revelation 19. While being explicitly referenced in revelation 20 over 1000 years afterwards. So it seems like revelations keeps splitting. Eschatological passages from Daniel and Ezekiel into multiple separate events.

What about the final versus of Daniel 12 and references to 1290 days and 1335 days from the abomination of Desolation? If we date, the abomination of Desolation to 70aD. then Daniel 12 points, the sometime around 73ad. In other words, it's clearly a reference to the final week of Daniel. Which see things clearly associated with this 7 year Jewish war against Rome from 66 to 73 AD exactly halfway through which the temple was in fact that destroyed appearing. To fulfill prophecy. So Daniel 12, appears to apply to Re Daniels Final 70th week, even though it mentions are resurrection, which would seem to prefigure the final resurrection on final judgment day. The Gospels to mention that at the resurrection and crucifixion. The 2 rooms were opened and some. souls were resurrected seen. Walking around Jerusalem.

 

[Erik Nelson]

What I have heard recently, is that second temple was not that big, until heord went on an expansion program to make room for the money ex-changers - as a way of bringing in some wealth to his coffers.

What the Jews are currently praying at, the wailing wall ,was not actually part of the second temple, but part of the expansion by Herod for his own greed.

I think it's Edward Martin, who suggests that the Horam all charif with its western wailing wall was actually the fortress and Tony a built by Herrad for the Romans? Which overlooked the temple farther to the South end of which essentially no traces remain today. But I do think it's important to remember that, Herod's temple was built for decades. It was begun in about 20 BC. It had been under construction for 47 years. As of Jesus is first year of ministry in john 2 and it was continued afterwards for decades more. The construction project was as herculean as Nimrods construction of the Tower of Babel. So perhaps Nimrod in the Tower of Babel. Are behind the references to Babylon in Revelation?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

What I have heard recently, is that second temple was not that big, until heord went on an expansion program to make room for the money ex-changers - as a way of bringing in some wealth to his coffers.

What the Jews are currently praying at, the wailing wall ,was not actually part of the second temple, but part of the expansion by Herod for his own greed.

Good info............

When Jesus said there would not be left standing "stone upon stone", He must not have been referring to the walls and towers?

According to Josephus, there were left 3 lofty towers and portion of a wall left standing.
[which leads me to ask how many lofty towers were around Jerusalem and the Temple?]

Zephaniah 1:16
A day of trumpet and alarm
Against the fortified cities And against the lofty towers.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Before their final demolition however, Titus took a survey of the city and its fortifications;
and while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these?"

After this he commanded that the city should be commanded razed to its foundations, excepting only the three lofty towers Hippocos, Phasael, and Mariamne, which he suffered to remain as evidences of its strength, and as trophies of his victory.

There was left standing, also, a small part of the western wall; as a rampart for a garrison, to keep the surrounding country in subjection.

.

 

[BABerean2]

What the Jews are currently praying at, the wailing wall ,was not actually part of the second temple, but part of the expansion by Herod for his own greed.

It was a part of Herod's project to upgrade Fort Antonia, as found below in the writing of Josephus.

In the New Testament it is known as "Herod's Praetorium".

Many people are now coming to understand that the area known as "the wailing wall" is a part of Fort Antonia. In the video below you will find the truth.


Fort Antonia and the Jewish Temple:

Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.





Luk 19:41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,

Luk 19:42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.

Luk 19:43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,

Luk 19:44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.





Mar 15:16 Then the soldiers led Him away into the hall called Praetorium, and they called together the whole garrison.



Act_23:35 he said, "I will hear you when your accusers also have come." And he commanded him to be kept in Herod's Praetorium.



The following comes from Wars of the Jews, by Flavius Josephus, Book 5, Chapter 5, Section 8.


8. Now as to the tower of Antonia, it was situated at the corner of two cloisters of the court of the temple; of that on the west, and that on the north; it was erected upon a rock of fifty cubits in height, and was on a great precipice; it was the work of king Herod, wherein he demonstrated his natural magnanimity. In the first place, the rock itself was covered over with smooth pieces of stone, from its foundation, both for ornament, and that any one who would either try to get up or to go down it might not be able to hold his feet upon it. Next to this, and before you come to the edifice of the tower itself, there was a wall three cubits high; but within that wall all the space of the tower of Antonia itself was built upon, to the height of forty cubits. The inward parts had the largeness and form of a palace, it being parted into all kinds of rooms and other conveniences, such as courts, and places for bathing, and broad spaces for camps; insomuch that, by having all conveniences that cities wanted, it might seem to be composed of several cities, but by its magnificence it seemed a palace. And as the entire structure resembled that of a tower, it contained also four other distinct towers at its four corners; whereof the others were but fifty cubits high; whereas that which lay upon the southeast corner was seventy cubits high, that from thence the whole temple might be viewed; but on the corner where it joined to the two cloisters of the temple, it had passages down to them both, through which the guard (for there always lay in this tower a Roman legion) went several ways among the cloisters, with their arms, on the Jewish festivals, in order to watch the people, that they might not there attempt to make any innovations; for the temple was a fortress that guarded the city, as was the tower of Antonia a guard to the temple; and in that tower were the guards of those three (14). There was also a peculiar fortress belonging to the upper city, which was Herod’s palace; but for the hill Bezetha, it was divided from the tower Antonia, as we have already told you; and as that hill on which the tower of Antonia stood was the highest of these three, so did it adjoin to the new city, and was the only place that hindered the sight of the temple on the north. And this shall suffice at present to have spoken about the city and the walls about it, because I have proposed to myself to make a more accurate description of it elsewhere.

Josephus said Fort Antonia was built upon a gigantic rock.

This provides tremendous evidence that the Dome of the Rock is the true location of Fort Antonia.
.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It was a part of Herod's project to upgrade Fort Antonia, as found below in the writing of Josephus.
In the New Testament it is known as "Herod's Praetorium".

Mar 15:16 Then the soldiers led Him away into the hall called Praetorium, and they called together the whole garrison.
Act_23:35 he said, "I will hear you when your accusers also have come." And he commanded him to be kept in Herod's Praetorium.

Very interesting info.
Where would the "court/palace" of the Chief Priests have been located?

833. aule ow-lay' from the same as 109; a yard (as open to the wind); by implication, a mansion:--court, (sheep-)fold, hall, palace.

Matthew 26:3
Then assembled together the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders of the people, unto the courtyard<833> of the high priest, who was called Caiaphas,
58
But Peter followed him afar off unto the high priest's courtyard<833> and went in, and sat with the servants, to see the end.
69
Now Peter sat without in the courtyard<833> and a damsel came unto him, saying, "Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee".

Revelation 11
1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary of the God and the altar and those worshiping in it
2 and the Courtyard<833> without of the Sanctuary, be Casting-Out! out-side
and no it thou should be measuring,

.

 

[Douggg]

It was a part of Herod's project to upgrade Fort Antonia, as found below in the writing of Josephus.

In the New Testament it is known as "Herod's Praetorium".

Many people are now coming to understand that the area known as "the wailing wall" is a part of Fort Antonia. In the video below you will find the truth.


Fort Antonia and the Jewish Temple:

Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.





Luk 19:41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,

Luk 19:42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.

Luk 19:43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,

Luk 19:44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.





Mar 15:16 Then the soldiers led Him away into the hall called Praetorium, and they called together the whole garrison.



Act_23:35 he said, "I will hear you when your accusers also have come." And he commanded him to be kept in Herod's Praetorium.



The following comes from Wars of the Jews, by Flavius Josephus, Book 5, Chapter 5, Section 8.


8. Now as to the tower of Antonia, it was situated at the corner of two cloisters of the court of the temple; of that on the west, and that on the north; it was erected upon a rock of fifty cubits in height, and was on a great precipice; it was the work of king Herod, wherein he demonstrated his natural magnanimity. In the first place, the rock itself was covered over with smooth pieces of stone, from its foundation, both for ornament, and that any one who would either try to get up or to go down it might not be able to hold his feet upon it. Next to this, and before you come to the edifice of the tower itself, there was a wall three cubits high; but within that wall all the space of the tower of Antonia itself was built upon, to the height of forty cubits. The inward parts had the largeness and form of a palace, it being parted into all kinds of rooms and other conveniences, such as courts, and places for bathing, and broad spaces for camps; insomuch that, by having all conveniences that cities wanted, it might seem to be composed of several cities, but by its magnificence it seemed a palace. And as the entire structure resembled that of a tower, it contained also four other distinct towers at its four corners; whereof the others were but fifty cubits high; whereas that which lay upon the southeast corner was seventy cubits high, that from thence the whole temple might be viewed; but on the corner where it joined to the two cloisters of the temple, it had passages down to them both, through which the guard (for there always lay in this tower a Roman legion) went several ways among the cloisters, with their arms, on the Jewish festivals, in order to watch the people, that they might not there attempt to make any innovations; for the temple was a fortress that guarded the city, as was the tower of Antonia a guard to the temple; and in that tower were the guards of those three (14). There was also a peculiar fortress belonging to the upper city, which was Herod’s palace; but for the hill Bezetha, it was divided from the tower Antonia, as we have already told you; and as that hill on which the tower of Antonia stood was the highest of these three, so did it adjoin to the new city, and was the only place that hindered the sight of the temple on the north. And this shall suffice at present to have spoken about the city and the walls about it, because I have proposed to myself to make a more accurate description of it elsewhere.

Josephus said Fort Antonia was built upon a gigantic rock.

This provides tremendous evidence that the Dome of the Rock is the true location of Fort Antonia.
.

That was an interesting video. It will be interesting to see what becomes of that information as far as when the temple is rebuilt - that the Antichrist will descecrate. Will it be on the current believed temple mount or a rebuilding of Mt. Zion, the location as the video presents, with a new temple on top.

A spring would be necessary back in the first century. But not in modern times. As far as piping water.

I wonder how the Muslims would react if the Jews said okay, keep your dome of the rock - our temple location was over here anyway and this is where we are going to build?

 

[A71]

The prophecy of Ezekiel was fulfilled when Israel returned from captivity in Babylon. This is not a future prophecy.

God said He would bring them back into the land after their captivity/exile in 70ad , nothing about there not being non-Israelites also living in it....

Revelation 13:10
If any to-captivity, into captivity is going away.
If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance and the faith of the saints.

Ezekiel 37:21
“Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone,
and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land;

http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm

Of the captives the whole was about NINETY-SEVEN THOUSAND

Titus now gave orders that those Jews only who resisted should be slain ; but the soldiers, equally void of pity and remorse, slew even the sick and the aged. The robbers and seditious were all punished with death : the tallest and most beautiful youths, together with several of the Jewish nobles were reserved by Titus to grace his triumphal entry into Rome.

After this selection, all above the age of seventeen were sent in chains into Egypt, to be employed there as slaves, or distributed throughout the empire to be sacrificed as gladiators in the amphitheatres ; whilst those who were under this age, were exposed to sale.

 

[BABerean2]

That was an interesting video. It will be interesting to see what becomes of that information as far as when the temple is rebuilt - that the Antichrist will descecrate. Will it be on the current believed temple mount or a rebuilding of Mt. Zion, the location as the video presents, with a new temple on top.

A spring would be necessary back in the first century. But not in modern times. As far as piping water.

I wonder how the Muslims would react if the Jews said okay, keep your dome of the rock - our temple location was over here anyway and this is where we are going to build?

The video confirms the words of Christ when He said not one stone would be left stacked one upon another.

Each year thousands of Christians visit Jerusalem and then go to pray at a wall made up of stones stacked one upon another, which are the remains of the Roman fort.

Today modern Jews and Arabs are fighting over the remains of Fort Antonia.

The only thing more powerful than scripture is tradition.

I appreciate you taking the time to look at the video.

Below is a link to Dr. Martin's research on Fort Antonia.

http://askelm.com/temple/t980504.htm

The recent book "Temple" by Robert Cornuke also does an excellent job of discussing this issue. It features the work of Israeli archeologist Eli Shukron, who rediscovered the Pool of Siloam a few years ago.

.

 

[claninja]

After this selection, all above the age of seventeen were sent in chains into Egypt,

This is interesting considering it is One of the final curses of the old covenant:

And the Lord will bring you back in ships to Egypt, a journey that I promised that you should never make again; and there you shall offer yourselves for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but there will be no buyer.”
Deuteronomy 28:68 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Deuteronomy 28:68&version=ESV

 

[Small Fish]

Not the way I understand it no. Daniel here is speaking of an end time event but in Luke at this particular prophesy Jesus was speaking of the Jews flee out of Jerusalem after the invasion of General Titus 70 AD.

If you look at Matthew 24 it speaks of the same thing. One reason that many people get so confused is because they lump everything together but if you notice in Matthew 24:3 Jesus was asked 3 questions by His disciples...

Matthew 24:3
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, 1)Tell us, when shall these things be? 2)and what shall be the sign of thy coming, 3)and of the end of the world?

Jesus then proceeded in answering all three questions. And for interest sake, Matthew 24 also parallels the 1st six Seals and Matthew 11 is the seventh Seal.

So, you cannot try and interpret this part of Scripture chronologically. It's like trying and to interpret the book of Revelations chronologically. It will become very confusing.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Not the way I understand it no. Daniel here is speaking of an end time event but in Luke at this particular prophesy Jesus was speaking of the Jews flee out of Jerusalem after the invasion of General Titus 70 AD.

If you look at Matthew 24 it speaks of the same thing. One reason that many people get so confused is because they lump everything together but if you notice in Matthew 24:3 Jesus was asked 3 questions by His disciples...

Matthew 24:3
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, 1)Tell us, when shall these things be? 2)and what shall be the sign of thy coming, 3)and of the end of the world?

Jesus then proceeded in answering all three questions. And for interest sake, Matthew 24 also parallels the 1st six Seals and Matthew 11 is the seventh Seal.

So, you cannot try and interpret this part of Scripture chronologically. It's like trying and to interpret the book of Revelations chronologically. It will become very confusing.

Good info.
What I find interesting is that Matt 24 is the only place #3952 is used in the Gospels

3952. parousia par-oo-see'-ah from the present participle of 3918; a being near, i.e. advent (often, return; specially, of Christ to punish Jerusalem, or finally the wicked); (by implication) physically, aspect:--coming, presence.
3844. para par-ah' a primary preposition; properly, near; i.e.
3776. ousia oo-see'-ah from the feminine of 5607; substance, i.e. property (possessions):--goods, substance.
Strong's Number G3952 matches the Greek παρουσία (parousia), which occurs 24 times in 24 verses

Matthew 24
3 He is yet sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples toward-came to Him according to own, saying, Be telling us!
when shall these be?
and what? the sign of-the Thy parousiaV <3952>
and of the together-finish/sun-teleiaV <4930> of the Age<165>?'
kaqhmenou de autou epi tou orouV twn elaiwn proshlqon autw oi maqhtai kat idian legonteV eipe hmin pote tauta estai
kai ti to shmeion thV shV parousiaV
kai [ths] sunteleiaV tou aiwnoV

27 for even as the lightning<796> comes-out from risings/east<395>, and is appearing till of west<1424>,
thus shall be the parousia <3952> of the Son of the Man;
37 For as even the days of the Noah thus shall be the parousia <3952> of the Son of the Man;
39 and not they know till came the flood and took/lifted all away.
Thus shall be also the parousia <3952> of the Son of the Man.

.

 

[Small Fish]

Good info.
What I find interesting is that Matt 24 is the only place #3952 is used in the Gospels

3952. parousia par-oo-see'-ah from the present participle of 18; a being near, i.e. advent (often, return; specially, of Christ to punish Jerusalem, or finally the wicked); (by implication) physically, aspect:--coming, presence.
3844. para par-ah' a primary preposition; properly, near; i.e.
3776. ousia oo-see'-ah from the feminine of 5607; substance, i.e. property (possessions):--goods, substance.
Strong's Number G3952 matches the Greek παρουσία (parousia), which occurs 24 times in 24 verses

Matthew 24
3 He is yet sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples toward-came to Him according to own, saying, Be telling us!
when shall these be?
and what? the sign of-the Thy parousiaV <3952>
and of the together-finish/sun-teleiaV <4930> of the Age?'

27 for even as the lightning<796> comes-out from risings/east<395>, and is appearing till of west<1424>,
thus shall be the parousia <3952> of the Son of the Man;
37 For as even the days of the Noah thus shall be the parousia <3952> of the Son of the Man;
39 and not they know till came the flood and took/lifted all away.
Thus shall be also the parousia <3952> of the Son of the Man.

Yes, very interesting. Did not know that. This Word "Parousia" is very near to my heart. The Coming or Presence. Also the same word that is being used in 2 Thessalonians 2:8

2 Thessalonians 2:8
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

And it is absolutely Revelations 10

Revelations 10
1And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:

2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,

3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.

4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,

6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

As a thief in the night.

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Its also the stone that hits the image at the feet. The Image in the dream interpreted by Daniel. The feet of iron mixed with clay. These Scriptures all speaks of the same event. The coming of Christ. But did you know the first and second comings parallel each other. Both happens over a period of time. A shout, voice and trump of God.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Yes, very interesting. Did not know that. This Word "Parousia" is very near to my heart. The Coming or Presence. Also the same word that is being used in 2 Thessalonians 2:8

Mine too.
You and/or others may be interested in this "parousia" thread I created

The "PAROUSIA" in Matthew 24

"Parousia" mentioned 24 Times, only 4 times in Gospels, all in Matt 24

parousiaV <3952> Mentioned 6 times. Matt 24:3; Phil 1:26; 2 Thess 2:1,8; James 5:7; 2 Peter 3:4

parousia <3952> Mentioned 15 times. Matt 24:27, 37, 39; 1 Corin 15:23, 16:17; 2 Corin 7:6,7, 10:10; Phil 2:12; 1 Thess 2:19, 3:13, 5:23; 2 Thess 2:9; James 5:8, 1 John 2:28

parousian <3952> Mentioned 3 Times 1 thess 4:15; 2 Peter 1:16; 2 Peter 3:12

.

 

[Small Fish]

T

Mine too.
You and/or others may be interested in this "parousia" thread I created

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/the-parousia-in-matthew-24.8076395/

"Parousia" mentioned 24 Times, only 4 times in Gospels, all in Matt 24

parousiaV <3952> Mentioned 6 times. Matt 24:3; Phil 1:26; 2 Thess 2:1,8; James 5:7; 2 Peter 3:4

parousia <3952> Mentioned 15 times. Matt 24:27, 37, 39; 1 Corin 15:23, 16:17; 2 Corin 7:6,7, 10:10; Phil 2:12; 1 Thess 2:19, 3:13, 5:23; 2 Thess 2:9; James 5:8, 1 John 2:28

parousian <3952> Mentioned 3 Times 1 thess 4:15; 2 Peter 1:16; 2 Peter 3:12

Thats alot. Will take a look.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Mine too.
You and/or others may be interested in this "parousia" thread I created

T

Thats alot. Will take a look.

It will be quite a long study and I hope very edifying......

 

[claninja]

1)Tell us, when shall these things be?

Considering we have parallel gospels, I would say question 1 equals:

“Tell us, when will these things be,
Mark 13:4 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Mark 13:4&version=ESV
And they asked him, “Teacher, when will these things be
Luke 21:7 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Luke 21:7&version=ESV

2)and what shall be the sign of thy coming, 3)and of the end of the world?

I would argue questions 2 and 3 of Matthew are equivalent to:

what will be the sign when all these things are about to be accomplished?”
Mark 13:4 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Mark 13:4&version=ESV

and what will be the sign when these things are about to take place?”
Luke 21:7 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Luke 21:7&version=ESV

Especially considering Mark doesn’t really give us any new information when compared to Matthew.

Jesus was asked 3 questions by His disciples...

3)and of the end of the world?

1.) paul believed his generation was living at the end of the ages:

Now these things happened to them as an example, but they were written down for our instruction, on whom the end of the ages has come.
1 Corinthians 10:11 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Corinthians 10:11&version=ESV

2.) Peter believed his generation was Near the end of all things:

The end of all things is at hand; therefore be self-controlled and sober-minded for the sake of your prayers.
1 Peter 4:7 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Peter 4:7&version=ESV

3.) John believed his generation was living in the last hour:

Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour.
1 John 2:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 John 2:18&version=ESV

4.) James believed his generation was living near to the coming of the Lord and that the judge was at the door:

You also, be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand. Do not grumble against one another, brothers, so that you may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing at the door.
James 5:8-9 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=James 5:8-9&version=ESV

**interesting to note, James said the judge ‘is standing’ at the door. The verb ‘is standing’ is perfect indicative active. He must have been seeing the signs Jesus gave in the olivet discourse:

so also ye, when ye may see all these, ye know that it is nigh -- at the doors.
Matthew 24:33 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 24:33&version=YLT

Why did the disciples believe they were living at the end of the ages, at the end of all things, in the last hour? Probably because Jesus told them their generation would:

Verily I say to you, this generation may not pass away till all these may come to pass.
Matthew 24:34 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 24:34&version=YLT