Conversions to Orthodoxy

[Michael G]

Yes he did! At my Chrismation Fr. Basil said to me "Do not think of this as abandoning your Catholic faith but rather as the fulfillment of your Catholic Faith!" My ebracing Orthodox Christianity was the fulfillment of my Catholic faith, it was my embracing the Church which St. Igatius of Antioch so eloquently spoke of in his Epistles. Thank you again for welcoming me home to Holy Orthodoxy! It is so good to have finally (5 years ago) come home to the faith which I had spent more than 5 years prior to that searching for.

Dear Michael:

Didn't your Orthodox Priest tell you that now that you are Orthodox you are fully a member of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Truly that hit home for me, especially when witnessing a Holy Baptism in the Orthodox Church. The term One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church was used many times in that wonderful ceremony of Initiation.

So your entrance into Holy Orthodoxy drew you further into Catholicism - the Catholic Church as witnessed by St. Ignatius of Antioch, who was one of the first persons to use that term: Where the bishop is, there is the Catholic Church.

Welcome home again.

 

[Vasya Davidovich]

12. Sola Scriptura: Meanwhile, I had been having some debates with others at my University. A fledgeling Christian (in terms of real personal experience and faith), I found myself fending off the proselyting efforts of a missionary from a certain pagan religion. He was very persuasive, and made good use of some tracts. In these tracts it was pointed out to me a number of discrepancies between Scriptural passges. Not theological contradictions that can be explained away, but errors in factual information. All of a sudden, Sola Scriptura as I understood it was impossible to accept. I found myself falling back in desperation on my personal knowledge of God, and on the "faith of my fathers". If the Bible isn't 100% reliable, what do I rely on to guide me? The fact I know God is real... and on those that have adopted the Scriptures as canon and interpreted them for my use. My pagan friend made me realize that the Bible only makes sense in the context of Tradition, and has to be interpreted by it.

13. Calvinism?: I was at the same time being challenged by a friend to become a Calvinist. He found me outrageously Arminian, and sought to correct this failing. I insisted that all his doctrine be backed up by Scripture. I then backed up my own. To my delight and horror, both were proven by the Bible. Then I had my Sola Scriptura epiphany (ref. #12), and realized that both Calvinism and Armininism were traditions of Biblical interpretation. Neither worked perfectly, so what about a synthesis of the two? Finding it too difficult to explain how both free will and God's foreordained plan can work in concert, I settled for a loosely knit paradoxical relationship between the two. I found thereby the wonderful world of mystical thought.

14. Iconic Paintings: I had been painting for some time, but as my spiritual life deepened, I found myself painting more and more crosses and images of Christ (face only). However, I soon realized that I wanted to reach for something beyond Christ's humanity, something beyond the frailty and transient stuff we are made of - I was attempting to reach for Christ's divinity, His power and majesty, His warrior-status (I was reading heavily of material like the Dream of the Rood at the time). Over time, my paintings grew stylized; they remain 'human' yet slightly flat, elongated, and off-colour. I didn't know it, but I wanted icons.

15. Monasticism: My love for a people set apart (ref. #5) and my increased reading in mediaeval texts and mystical literature drew me into a love affair with monasticism. (On my first visit ever, I set out on sandalled foot one evening for a local Catholic monastery, and managed 30 km before a raver picked me up and drove me to my destination.) Since then I have been around ten monasteries, some for longer periods than others. However, at the time I was drinking in Catholic monasticism, and over time I came to grieve for many of the weaknesses I was seeing in many of the R.C. models (ie. mendicants, warrior-monks, secret societies). I finally realized I had difficulties with monastic Orders, that Western innovation that developed in the wake of the Cluniac reforms. What I wanted was the Benectines back before things were so codified, that idyllic past that both Cistercians and Trappists had modelled themselves after. [Imagine my delight in finding the model for St.Benedict's Rule in St.Basil.]

16. Fasting: Finally. As I read the gospels, I found that fasting was assumed. I did more research, as I couldn't believe that Protestants had missed out on this basic aspect of the Christian faith, and discovered that fasting is throughout Scripture. I tried to synthesize everything into what I thought a Christian perspective of fasting looked like. While I thought there was room for total fasts, I liked the moderate no-meat fast found in Daniel, with fasting seemingly appropriate for different seasons in one's life.

I had not yet met an Orthodox.

(More to come.)

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

I had not yet met an Orthodox.

(More to come.)

I always have the urge to say "amen" at the end of your posts.

 

[xsearnold]

13. Calvinism?: I was at the same time being challenged by a friend to become a Calvinist. He found me outrageously Arminian, and sought to correct this failing. I insisted that all his doctrine be backed up by Scripture. I then backed up my own. To my delight and horror, both were proven by the Bible. Then I had my Sola Scriptura epiphany (ref. #12), and realized that both Calvinism and Armininism were traditions of Biblical interpretation. Neither worked perfectly, so what about a synthesis of the two?

I just tell people that I was predestined to be an Arminian, so I can't help but reject Calvinism.

 

[Marjorie]

I just tell people that I was predestined to be an Arminian, so I can't help but reject Calvinism.

In IC XC,
Marjorie

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

Greetings to all:
I have deeply appreciated the stories of your journey(s) to the Orthodox faith. I was at one time a pastor in a non-denom. church, and look forward to sharing my own story here soon. I love the prevailing 'spirit' here- it is quite dissimilar to many forums that I have visited, inasmuch as one actually can express their faith here without open hostility. (such is my observation to this point.)

Will be back again soon.
Reader Iakovos

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Greetings to all:
I have deeply appreciated the stories of your journey(s) to the Orthodox faith. I was at one time a pastor in a non-denom. church, and look forward to sharing my own story here soon. I love the prevailing 'spirit' here- it is quite dissimilar to many forums that I have visited, inasmuch as one actually can express their faith here without open hostility. (such is my observation to this point.)

Will be back again soon.
Reader Iakovos

Welcome, Reader Iakovos! Feel free to share whenever you like.

 

[Prawnik]

La pregunta mas estupida:

(No, I don't speak Spanish.)

Has anyone here converted to Orthodoxy from the LDS ("Mormons")? I am not now, nor have I ever been, nor have I any intent whatsoever of becoming, a Mormon, however I have been reading up about the LDS Church and culture a great deal lately.

If anyone has converted from Mormonism and would like to tell their story, I would be interested in reading it.

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

Hello again:
I will endeavor to tell the story of my journey to the Holy Orthodox Church. I
think that the only way I can tell the story is to tell the whole story. I hope
that it does not read too lengthy, and I ask your indulgence as I set forth to
tell what I believe is relevant.

Part One: The Lord is my Shepherd

I was baptized in the Lutheran Church in 1963. My earliest, warmest memories are
of this small Lutheran Church we attended. There was a beautiful painting of
Christ's ascension behind the altar, and I remember staring lovingly at this
image. My father was agnostic, but my mother brought me to church and taught me
about God. I remember her then as kind and very engaged with me. She was very
beautiful and young.

Even at an early age, I recall loving God, and I might add, more than once
feeling Him speak to me. I was deeply impressed by our pastor, his kind, quiet
strength, and I felt that I wanted to be a pastor when I grew up.

My parents got divorced in 1969, and my entire world crumbled. We moved to a
city far from the rest of our family, and immediately my mom plummeted into
drinking, drugs, and promiscuity. While she had been a nurturing and patient
person before, she became vulgar, vain, and violently abusive. She beat me
constantly with her fists and her words. The anger and despair grew in me such
that I turned to drugs also. At age 13, I moved to be with my father. I decided,
in spite of the derision of my father and stepmother, to go to confirmation (7th
and 8th grade in Lutheran church). I found some solace in this, and actually did
fairly well for a while, but I never really felt like I fit in with the
Christian kids- they all seemed like happy little whitebreads with good clothes.
I came from a very poor family, and I was very shy and morose. The pain and dis-
ease accumulated,my early childhood overwhelmed me, and I returned to drugs and
drinking.

I entered drug treatment twice before age 19. By the second time around, I had
been using much harder drugs, needles, and involving myself in highly immoral
and dangerous behavior. I came to my senses and decided to live, and have been
clean and sober since. I was not ready at that time to return to my Christian
faith. After all, those Christians were so clean cut, and I was a long haired
junkie. I attended AA and hung out with people like me, people who had been
batted around a bit.

I married at age 22, had a son, and was separated within a year. Some
time later, I was divorced from first wife and living with a woman with whom I
was expecting a second child. I had quit a good paying job to go to college, and
was in deep financial and personal distress. My significant other was
hospitalized with depression 8 months into her pregancy.

I was walking to school for a night class one evening, wringing my hands and
being generally tormented by anxiety and fear. I was thinking about the pain I
had experienced as the eldest son of two divorced parents. I realized I had put
one son in the way of such pain, and would likely do the same with my expected
second child- should I not find a way to make some changes. I was literally
trembling with fear and despair, walking swiftly through the cold night air,
staring at my feet and wishing the ground would open up and swallow me. I heard
or felt something, and I looked up, and immediately to my right, there was a
small church with a very large sign. Upon this sign was inscribed this simple
admonition: "PRAY." I stopped in my tracks, bowed my head, and did so. I knew
that I must return to my faith, but I doubted my waist-length hair and multiple
piercings would be accepted in a church. Within a few weeks, however, I met some
long-haired freaky people who called themselves Christans, and I was intrigued.
I began attending their church, and the assistant pastor began to mentor me like
a father.

On July 1 of 1990, I made a firm decision to return to my faith, and was
baptized (again). The woman with whom I was living was on the very same page,
and was also baptized. A couple weeks later we were married, and we began to
experience joy and peace in our lives.

end of part 1

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

Part Two: Bless the Lord, O my soul

Sadly, that church closed one and one half year later. The Sr pastor decided he
needed to make better money, and the assistant pastor's wife left him. My wife
and I were looking for a church, and in the midst of it, our second (my third)
child was born with a serious heart defect. We prayed and begged and believed God,
but Isaiah died anyway, at age seven weeks. A church we had checked out during
that time totally embraced us and reached out to give us comfort and support.
needless to say, we joined that church. I finished my undergraduate degree and
went immediately on to graduate school. I intended on being a psychotherapist,
so I enrolled in a very strong and exacting Master's program in Educational
Psychology.

Some time later, with the church that we attended growing by leaps and bounds,
it became apparent that they needed a counselor on staff. Also, my wife and I
had already been hosting a group for singles, and had shown a real knack for
evangelism. The church granted me ordination and took me on as assistant pastor
(though I had no theological training).

These were some of the most joyful years
of my life- I helped people without charge, started a food program for the poor
in conjunction with a school in a poor neighborhood, my own hands baptized
children and adults that we reached through our home groups- it was nearly
idyllic.

My wife and I read about a pastor in New York City who had a Sunday School for
urban children from the worst places in NYC. We went to see how Metro Ministries
reached out to kids in Bushwick, Bed-Stuy, and the Bronx. We went into the
darkest tenements, and walked among murals painted to memorialize the slain.
Kids streamed out of gutted buildings covered in graffiti and prison wire to
spend an hour or two with us in a gym, singing and talking about Jesus. We
sought them in their 'homes' and attempted to engage the adult(s) in their
lives. It was scary, wondeful work, work with no end in sight, like digging
one's way out of a sandpit.

When we returned to our home church, we were invigorated and ready to change the
world. Sadly, our fellow congregants were not quite as enthused. In truth, they
seemed ambivalent. Even the church leaership was cool towards some of the ideas
that we had. I decided not to be dissuaded nor resentful, but to work to educate
through preaching and teaching.

Still, I was troubled by many of the theological
positions taken by our elders and lay people. I found a very casual attitude
toward worship, and a great deal of apathy among the so-called born again in our
church. I could not understand how they could consign the unchurched to hell,
yet not lift a finger to 'save' them.

I read about revivals and great exploits in the recent past- the awakenings, the
camp meetings, and so forth. I got to know Rev George Stormont, who had assisted
Smith Wigglesworth in his minstry in the UK. Brother George, as he wished to be
called, would sit with us in our church kitchen and speak of miracles he had
witnessed- incredible and inexplicable occurences.

I began to search out what it was that 'made God move,' as it were. We went to
Pensacola and to Toronto. We visited prophetic conferences and "Christian
retreat centers." We kept looking for God to change something, though we weren't
sure what. Looking back now, I realized we were looking for God to change everyone
else.

end part 2

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

Part three
It is good for me to cling to God, and to place in Him the hope of my salvation

It slowly dawned on me that I was spinning my wheels. I saw instability and
caprice among the reivivalists and super charismatics we were rubbing shoulders
with, and it seemed their end was division and, often, abandonment of church
altogether. I wondered if things had always been like this among Christians-
apathy on one hand, instability and schismation on the other. I endeavored to
research the history of the Church. Like a good Protestant, I started by
analyzing and investigating the scriptures, particularly the Gospels and the
Acts of the Apostles, with a sprinkle of Pauline sayings. One day, when I was
reading Christianity Today, a card fell out with an offer for a free book
"Ancient Christian Commentary on the Gospel of Mark." That sounded great, so I
ordered it.

What astounded me when I began to read the sayings of the early church fathers
was how wrong their theology was. LOL. They seemed to have a completely
different set of presuppositions about eternity, authority, and salvation than
I. I decided that I would check these guys out, so did some internet research on
some of the big guys (Augustine, Basil, the Gregorys, Athanasius, Tertullian,
Origen, etc). I kept stumbling across this "Orthodox Church" of which I had no clue. So I decided that I would look that up also. I read some things by Fr Alexander Schmemman (of blessed memory). His perspectives blew me away.

As time went by, and I continued to research the Orthodox faith, the history of the Church, and comparitive religion, I realized that this ancient faith held more than a passing interest to me.

IN May of 1999 I had the great distreess of having a young woman whom my wife and I had brought into the Church come to my house to tell me that my friend and co-laborer, our Senior Pastor, had made sexual advances toward her. I went to confront this husband and father of four in his own home, and he did not deny the allegation. He was placed on leave, and I was given responsibility for the interim.

Over the next few months, I rapidly fell into disfavor with the elder board of the church. They felt that I was too young for the job, too forceful and direct. I sought help on the matter from my spiritual mentor at the time, who happened to be an Anglican priest in my community. He compelled me to retreat to prayer, silence and meditation. He re-introduced me to the Eucharistic and liturgical approach to worship. He encouraged me when I was down.

In the mean time, I met on a regular basis with some other pastors for prayer and accountability. One of them, a dear friend to this day, was working on an ecumenical association which went beyond the usual Evangelical borders. My life was soon to change forever, and this friend helped to make it happen.
end part 3

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

Part 4 Receive me today, Son of God, as a partaker of your mystical supper

The ecumenical gathering occured in summer, 1999. It was called "a conversation among Christians." I had been continuing to research the ancient roots of the Christian faith, digging deeply into the web. At this gathering, there was this bearded man with a black hat (kalimafti), a black cassock (rasso) and a giant cross. When he announced that he was "Fr Philemon" from the Greek Orthodox Church, I knew that I had to meet him and the two 'lay' people with him. I rushed up to them after the gathering and said "I've been reading about you people, and I have a lot of questions."

Father was new to the area. He had moved here after losing his position at the Archdiocese when +Spyridon was encouraged to resign. I got in touch with Fr and with my new friends Duane and Margot via email, and found out that they were holding a study of the Apocalypse of St John. Fr had been working with a friend of his on a new translation (The millenium project- Oracle publishing group) of the Apocalyse. As I listened to Fr, who I came to know as a true liturgical revivalist and man of deep faith, I realized that he was articulating a faith that I had always held. I was captivated.

In the mean time, I was ousted from my pastorate under the explanation that I had a different view of ministry than the leadership of the church. I found that an odd comment, since I always thought a pastor to be part of the leadership- but anyway, I went to a more moderate, mainstream Evangelical church for a while, to await some sense of my future. I had to take a job in business, where I am to this day.

After 9/11, Fr instituted a Paraklesis before Wed bible study. There, while sitting one night in the glow of the evening candles, I looked up at the icons of some the Saints of the Church, and I thought about how I had heard nor learned nothing of them in my Protestant Churches. I had learned of the Hebrew heroes of the Old Testament, and the Twelve, but never of Basil or Gregory Plamas or Nektarios- and suddenly, I realized that I was home.

It took some time to get my wife and kids to come, but eventually we all became Catechumens, then on Lazarus Saturday of 2003, we were received into the One, Holy, Apostolic, Catholic Church. Duane became my nouno, and Margot my wife's nouna. My friend, father, mentor, Fr Philemon, baptized three of my children and Charimated two more. Many of our 'Protestant' friends were there, and have been deeply touched by the ancient faith, and especially by our dear priest.

Fr also blessed the marriage of my wife and I, with all of our 6 children in attendance. He also DJd the dance- he had a real penchant for 70s dance music, R and B- the guy was a study in contrast.

Epilogue Lord, remember me in your heavenly kingdom
I told Fr that I still believed that I was called, that I wished to go to seminary and become a priest. He was very encouraging and helpful, neither pushing me towards this nor discouraging. He saw to it that I and another convert were tonsured Readers by the Metroploitan Iakovos. We both served with Fr in the altar and as Psaltys. We received untold riches and beauty by watching and participating in many, many liturgies. Fr. was faithful to do all of the Saint's feasts, vespers, and liturgies, even when only a handful of us would attend.

Then, in late August, he died suddenly of a massive heart attack, leaving behind a wife and three children. He was 48. At his memorial service, the former Archbishop of America, the Chancellor of the Chicago diocese, and 11 other priests came to sing and liturgize. Though Fr had a small parish (80 families), and had only lived in our town for 4 1/2 years, over 500 people from many traditions came to his memorial service.

We, as a parish, will to the best of our ability carry on what Christ began, Fr watered and nourished, and what Christ will finish. As for me, I know that Christ has risen from the dead- I know that I know that I know that Fr is alive and probably mildly irritated at all the homage paid to him. I'm confident he'll indulge me.

So, my journey is really just beginning all over again- my spiritual father has passed, but the Liturgy continues forever.

Memory eternal my dear friend

Thank you and God bless all of you.
Iakovos

 

[Prawnik]

Reader Iakovos,

Your and your wife's is a beautiful story, thank you for sharing it with us.

 

[Wiffey]

Reader Iakovos,

Beautiful, well-written and inspiring! Thankyou so much...


Wiffey

 

[Montalban]

How long does it take to get Chrismated? I started going to Orthodox church just after Pascha (2003), and am still not Chrismated, in fact my priest has never once sat down and discussed anything with me at all.

 

[Prawnik]

How long does it take to get Chrismated? I started going to Orthodox church just after Pascha (2003), and am still not Chrismated, in fact my priest has never once sat down and discussed anything with me at all.

As far as I know, there is no set schedule for Chrismation, but usually a person is a Catechumen for a year or so, depending.

Have you discussed Chrismation or becoming a Catechumen with the Priest?

 

[Montalban]

As far as I know, there is no set schedule for Chrismation, but usually a person is a Catechumen for a year or so, depending.

Have you discussed Chrismation or becoming a Catechumen with the Priest?

Yes, I e-mail him or see him after church (sometimes; he's a busy man and I get the feeling he'd rather be off home).

However a sub-deacon is also e-mailing me, and we talk in general after church.

I go to an Antiochian church that has a community that is all Arabic descent; except for the sub-deacon, Chris, himself a convert.

 

[Prawnik]

Yes, I e-mail him or see him after church (sometimes; he's a busy man and I get the feeling he'd rather be off home).

However a sub-deacon is also e-mailing me, and we talk in general after church.

I go to an Antiochian church that has a community that is all Arabic descent; except for the sub-deacon, Chris, himself a convert.

Well, if you are interested in joining the Orthodox Faith, and you haven't done so already, I suggest that you bring conversion up with the Priest and/or.

Since I don't know the specific church you are attending or the Priest, I don't want to comment on your specific situation or suggest that you attend a different Orthodox Church.

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Yes, I e-mail him or see him after church (sometimes; he's a busy man and I get the feeling he'd rather be off home).

However a sub-deacon is also e-mailing me, and we talk in general after church.

I go to an Antiochian church that has a community that is all Arabic descent; except for the sub-deacon, Chris, himself a convert.

Montalban, I know exactly what this is like. I have had a similar problem talking with my priest (I'm not chrismated yet either). He has never offered to sit down with me to answer questions or just talk about where I'm at spiritually, and I have been attending this parish for almost a year as well. It is also almost impossible to run him down before or after liturgy. If I would've had more options, I would've found another parish with a priest who had more time to talk to me. However, this is the only parish within reasonable driving distance that has liturgy in English. I was even willing to overlook the language thing somewhat, but I was not able to find the one Russian Church that is not too far from the parish I already attend, and I have been told the other 2 parishes are not convert friendly at all. So, I have had to settle for this parish until I move (not sure when that will be). So basically, I am saying that if there are any other decent parishes near you, you may want to try them. If not, you may just have to be a little more agressive in getting your priest's attention. At the very least he needs to know you want to be chrismated. Let us know how you're doing.

 

[Montalban]

Montalban, I know exactly what this is like. I have had a similar problem talking with my priest (I'm not chrismated yet either). He has never offered to sit down with me to answer questions or just talk about where I'm at spiritually, and I have been attending this parish for almost a year as well. It is also almost impossible to run him down before or after liturgy. If I would've had more options, I would've found another parish with a priest who had more time to talk to me. However, this is the only parish within reasonable driving distance that has liturgy in English. I was even willing to overlook the language thing somewhat, but I was not able to find the one Russian Church that is not too far from the parish I already attend, and I have been told the other 2 parishes are not convert friendly at all. So, I have had to settle for this parish until I move (not sure when that will be). So basically, I am saying that if there are any other decent parishes near you, you may want to try them. If not, you may just have to be a little more agressive in getting your priest's attention. At the very least he needs to know you want to be chrismated. Let us know how you're doing.

Thanks for the input. I believe that I am already 'Orthodox' in spirit, though this does not mean that I am leaving things as they are; I believe that I should participate in the fullness of the Eucharist (which I do attend, but am not allowed the body and blood).