Conversions to Orthodoxy

[Kripost]

Orthodoxos, are you really from St Constantine and Helene, Perth, WA?

 

[The Virginian]

Hmm, I thought I had done this once, but apparently not.

I was raised in a National Baptist (read Black) Church in my home state. The building could be seen from my back porch. After High School I joined the militery (Air Force), and while there when we were providing logistical support for the Army at a DNP Convention, I asked Jesus to forgive me, cleanse me,take control of my life and make something of me. That was during the zenith of the Jesus Moement. And like most of those who, "got saved" during that time, I was decidedly Charismatic. Disparging the "established Church and especially liturgical religions", we were often heard to say "We've got to get back to First Century Christianity". That was code for , we want to see more of the demonstration of the power of the Holy Spirit.
As a Charismatic I went from being Presbyterian, to AOG, Southern Baptist, to Methodist. It was while I worked (sitting down, which gave you a lot of time to think) as a punch press operator that I read the Scripture passage where St. Paul admonished Timothy that he should by the power of a godly life, "...silence the questions of foolish men." For me as a Charismatic, that was power. The providence of God got me the current job I 'm employed in; Corrections Officer/Prison Guard.
When ariving in theis city my family began attending a UMC congregation. Incidently(HA!), the pastor of this congregation is a good friend of my wife's siste and her husband. Well, lo and behold, the problems which were dogging the Presbyterians back in '95 were now raisisng their head in the UMC, and the pastor wanted no part of it. Unbeknownst to me, he had began his journey into Holy Orthodoxy before I met him; however, in 'Oct. of that year he took me to lunch and pitched his proposal. "How would I like to join him in forming a core group who would belong to that ancient Church from which Christians first got their name, Antioch the Church of Peter and Paul. He gave me the book Dancing Alone, by Frank Schaffer to read. My prayer to God was, "What are You getting me into?" I read Dancing Alone, The Christian Activist, Essays in Orthodox Theology and Church History, by Dr. Charles Ashanin (of blessed memory), and pretty much anything else I could gert my hands on about Orthodoxy, until I felt as though I was drowning in information. The Study Group met a couple of times with the V. Rev. Fr. Gordon Walker, held Typica services in the meeting room of the local Hospice, and was finally Chrismated on Pentecost Sunday of 1998. (talk about double meanings). MY patron saint, which I now fully believe chose me, is Moses , prophet and God-seer of Israel. Two years later I was - with little hair on my head- tonsured a Reader by His Grace Bishop Basil Essey, and served Fr. in that capacity, being ordained (by the same Bishop) as a subdeacon until Fr. was transferred. Although I prefer the Byzantine Rite, I'm now in a Western Rite parish until I finish studies through St. Stephens Seminary, and God decides the Bishop should ordain me a Deacon.
The phrase so often uttered in my Charismatic days of Christianity, "We've got to get back to First Century Christianity", has now come full circle. Glory to Thee o Lord, Glory to Thee!

a sinful and unworthy servant
Moses

 

[gzt]

Dude, V. Rev. Fr. Gordon Walker is pretty hip. How much longer until you're done with seminary?

 

[orthodoxos]

Brother Kripost, Hristos aneste.

Yes, from time to time I celebrate Holy Lithurgy in the Ss. Constantine and Hellen, the Cathedral of the Greek Church in Perth. Thanks for welcoming me to the forum.

God bless.

 

[The Virginian]

GZT,
It will take me another three years at least. Every candidate for the diaconate has to attend a week of classes each year at Antiochian Village, unless granted permission to 'double up ' one year. As far as the textbook stuff goes , I should be finished by the summer of 2005, that is, if I pass my exams. After the academic part is over, ordination is in the hands of the Bishop.


Lord save Thy people, and bless Thine inheritance,
and to Thy faithful people grant victory over their enemies.
and by the power of Thy cross, protect all those who follow Thee!

 

[Kripost]

Brother Kripost, Hristos aneste.

Yes, from time to time I celebrate Holy Lithurgy in the Ss. Constantine and Hellen, the Cathedral of the Greek Church in Perth. Thanks for welcoming me to the forum.

God bless.

I go there quite often! Where do you always sit/stand? I am always at the 2nd last pew, on the far right.

 

[Suzannah]

Hmm, I thought I had done this once, but apparently not.

I was raised in a National Baptist (read Black) Church in my home state. The building could be seen from my back porch. After High School I joined the militery (Air Force), and while there when we were providing logistical support for the Army at a DNP Convention, I asked Jesus to forgive me, cleanse me,take control of my life and make something of me. That was during the zenith of the Jesus Moement. And like most of those who, "got saved" during that time, I was decidedly Charismatic. Disparging the "established Church and especially liturgical religions", we were often heard to say "We've got to get back to First Century Christianity". That was code for , we want to see more of the demonstration of the power of the Holy Spirit.
As a Charismatic I went from being Presbyterian, to AOG, Southern Baptist, to Methodist. It was while I worked (sitting down, which gave you a lot of time to think) as a punch press operator that I read the Scripture passage where St. Paul admonished Timothy that he should by the power of a godly life, "...silence the questions of foolish men." For me as a Charismatic, that was power. The providence of God got me the current job I 'm employed in; Corrections Officer/Prison Guard.
When ariving in theis city my family began attending a UMC congregation. Incidently(HA!), the pastor of this congregation is a good friend of my wife's siste and her husband. Well, lo and behold, the problems which were dogging the Presbyterians back in '95 were now raisisng their head in the UMC, and the pastor wanted no part of it. Unbeknownst to me, he had began his journey into Holy Orthodoxy before I met him; however, in 'Oct. of that year he took me to lunch and pitched his proposal. "How would I like to join him in forming a core group who would belong to that ancient Church from which Christians first got their name, Antioch the Church of Peter and Paul. He gave me the book Dancing Alone, by Frank Schaffer to read. My prayer to God was, "What are You getting me into?" I read Dancing Alone, The Christian Activist, Essays in Orthodox Theology and Church History, by Dr. Charles Ashanin (of blessed memory), and pretty much anything else I could gert my hands on about Orthodoxy, until I felt as though I was drowning in information. The Study Group met a couple of times with the V. Rev. Fr. Gordon Walker, held Typica services in the meeting room of the local Hospice, and was finally Chrismated on Pentecost Sunday of 1998. (talk about double meanings). MY patron saint, which I now fully believe chose me, is Moses , prophet and God-seer of Israel. Two years later I was - with little hair on my head- tonsured a Reader by His Grace Bishop Basil Essey, and served Fr. in that capacity, being ordained (by the same Bishop) as a subdeacon until Fr. was transferred. Although I prefer the Byzantine Rite, I'm now in a Western Rite parish until I finish studies through St. Stephens Seminary, and God decides the Bishop should ordain me a Deacon.
The phrase so often uttered in my Charismatic days of Christianity, "We've got to get back to First Century Christianity", has now come full circle. Glory to Thee o Lord, Glory to Thee!

a sinful and unworthy servant
Moses

Beautiful !!!! Thank you so much for sharing! Glory be to our God!

I'm so happy you found our forum Moses....

Come often and share this journey with us, yes???
Love,
Suzannah
A sinner...

 

[Vasya Davidovich]

Hi. I just found Christian Forums, and these testimonies. I wanted to thank you guys for sharing your stories - they are very inspirational, and comforting to someone who has been in rebellion for far too long. Please keep sharing.

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Hi. I just found Christian Forums, and these testimonies. I wanted to thank you guys for sharing your stories - they are very inspirational, and comforting to someone who has been in rebellion for far too long. Please keep sharing.

Hi, Vasya! Welcome to TAW! I hope you will tell us a little more about yourself. I hope you enjoy this forum as much as I do. Lots of great people here.

 

[Vasya Davidovich]

Hi, Vasya! Welcome to TAW! I hope you will tell us a little more about yourself. I hope you enjoy this forum as much as I do. Lots of great people here.

Thanks, Elizaveta. Nice picture (icon), by the way. Can I copy it?

Is it fair to share a story that is all about hope and the joy of finding something beautiful and new (although ancient) and true, when the present is about someone who has run away from all that hope and joy? I mean, wouldn't there be a fair degree of hypocrisy to one's tale?

Let me know what you think,
Vasya.

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Thanks, Elizaveta. Nice picture (icon), by the way. Can I copy it?

Is it fair to share a story that is all about hope and the joy of finding something beautiful and new (although ancient) and true, when the present is about someone who has run away from all that hope and joy? I mean, wouldn't there be a fair degree of hypocrisy to one's tale?

Let me know what you think,
Vasya.

Hi, Vasya. You can certainly copy the icon of New Martyr Elizabeth if you like! About your story......I certainly didn't mean to press you for details that you aren't comfortable sharing. Vasya, you say you have been running away from God, but I believe that in coming here you are trying to turn around and run TO God instead of away from Him. Isn't hearing of someone who is trying to turn back to God inspiring? Look at David in the Psalms. He sinned greatly in the eyes of God by choosing his way instead of God's (as we all do), and ended up committing adultry and killing a man (and those were not his only sins). I am so thankful that he was not so ashamed of himself that he refused to record his thoughts and feelings about that experience. I feel inspired when I read of how he was in the depths of shame and sorrow for his sin, and yet he did not let this stop him from running back to God in repentence.

I hope you return to the Church, Vasya. I think it would do you a world of good to talk to a priest and have a confession.

 

[Andromeda]

It's always inspiring to hear about someone who is searching. I think you'll touch the hearts of a few others if you share, gain a few prayers, and possibly make a few friends. What could be so bad about that? From the sounds of it, you've experienced that "hope and joy" before and we've all had our ups and downs. God doesn't mind that we stumble, He's there to help you up when you fall.

Is it fair to share a story that is all about hope and the joy of finding something beautiful and new (although ancient) and true, when the present is about someone who has run away from all that hope and joy? I mean, wouldn't there be a fair degree of hypocrisy to one's tale?

Let me know what you think,
Vasya.

 

[Vasya Davidovich]

GDE:
Gotcha. Thanks. I will indeed write up my conversion story. I think I will compose it elsewhere and transcribe when complete. And, FYI - made it to confession! Confession is good for the soul, no? In more ways than one?!?
BTW, I hope I didn't sound too defensive. I wanted to write my story - share my story - but I didn't want to step on toes.

Andromeda:
Probably save this current struggle (and conversion tale) until I reach a point when I have sufficient distance to see it objectively. However, I will be sure to submit the original story of my finding Orthodoxy. I wouldn't be able to turn back to the Church if I hadn't discovered that "hope and joy", as you put it. So, more to come, soon, if God so wills. Peace. -Vasya.

 

[Andromeda]

Andromeda:
Probably save this current struggle (and conversion tale) until I reach a point when I have sufficient distance to see it objectively. However, I will be sure to submit the original story of my finding Orthodoxy. I wouldn't be able to turn back to the Church if I hadn't discovered that "hope and joy", as you put it. So, more to come, soon, if God so wills. Peace. -Vasya.

Sorry, didn't mean to be pushy! Whenever you want, if you want.

 

[xsearnold]

Hmm, I thought I had done this once, but apparently not.

I was raised in a National Baptist (read Black) Church in my home state. The building could be seen from my back porch. After High School I joined the militery (Air Force), and while there when we were providing logistical support for the Army at a DNP Convention, I asked Jesus to forgive me, cleanse me,take control of my life and make something of me. That was during the zenith of the Jesus Moement. And like most of those who, "got saved" during that time, I was decidedly Charismatic. Disparging the "established Church and especially liturgical religions", we were often heard to say "We've got to get back to First Century Christianity". That was code for , we want to see more of the demonstration of the power of the Holy Spirit.
As a Charismatic I went from being Presbyterian, to AOG, Southern Baptist, to Methodist. It was while I worked (sitting down, which gave you a lot of time to think) as a punch press operator that I read the Scripture passage where St. Paul admonished Timothy that he should by the power of a godly life, "...silence the questions of foolish men." For me as a Charismatic, that was power. The providence of God got me the current job I 'm employed in; Corrections Officer/Prison Guard.
When ariving in theis city my family began attending a UMC congregation. Incidently(HA!), the pastor of this congregation is a good friend of my wife's siste and her husband. Well, lo and behold, the problems which were dogging the Presbyterians back in '95 were now raisisng their head in the UMC, and the pastor wanted no part of it. Unbeknownst to me, he had began his journey into Holy Orthodoxy before I met him; however, in 'Oct. of that year he took me to lunch and pitched his proposal. "How would I like to join him in forming a core group who would belong to that ancient Church from which Christians first got their name, Antioch the Church of Peter and Paul. He gave me the book Dancing Alone, by Frank Schaffer to read. My prayer to God was, "What are You getting me into?" I read Dancing Alone, The Christian Activist, Essays in Orthodox Theology and Church History, by Dr. Charles Ashanin (of blessed memory), and pretty much anything else I could gert my hands on about Orthodoxy, until I felt as though I was drowning in information. The Study Group met a couple of times with the V. Rev. Fr. Gordon Walker, held Typica services in the meeting room of the local Hospice, and was finally Chrismated on Pentecost Sunday of 1998. (talk about double meanings). MY patron saint, which I now fully believe chose me, is Moses , prophet and God-seer of Israel. Two years later I was - with little hair on my head- tonsured a Reader by His Grace Bishop Basil Essey, and served Fr. in that capacity, being ordained (by the same Bishop) as a subdeacon until Fr. was transferred. Although I prefer the Byzantine Rite, I'm now in a Western Rite parish until I finish studies through St. Stephens Seminary, and God decides the Bishop should ordain me a Deacon.
The phrase so often uttered in my Charismatic days of Christianity, "We've got to get back to First Century Christianity", has now come full circle. Glory to Thee o Lord, Glory to Thee!

a sinful and unworthy servant
Moses

Ah, a fellow/former Charismaniac! What's a DNP Convention? I've also recently read Dancing Alone. How did you hear about that book?

 

[Vasya Davidovich]

This is a tale designed neither to convince nor to convert but as a celebration, written primarily for Orthodox by an Orthodox.

Trying to explain my conversion is not easy. There is not one moment, nor one issue, nor even one person that brought me into Orthodoxy. Rather, different threads or themes make the weave of my conversion, ideas and movements of the heart that led me inexorably to Chrismation. I feel that I have been singularly blessed - that I was prepared in advance to become Orthodox before I had ever met Orthodoxy.

To help me organize my thoughts (and thus my narrative) a bit better, I have separated the weave as best I could, into sixteen different threads by which I feel God has led or pulled me to and into the Orthodox Church. They immediately follow. After that, I will, should time and interest allow, briefly describe the events that finally introduced to that which I sought (though I knew it not - how can you name the inexpressable?).

I came to University a "backslidden" conservative evangelical Baptist. I was deep in rebellion, but when God touched my life in those first few University days I emerged a new creature - influenced by my past, but seeking a deeper communion with God than that which I had ever found before. Several elements were strong.

1. Conservatism: I was still a conservative, with a natural antipathy towards liberal trends in the denominations around me, and a decided distaste for Christian accommodation to our culture. Issues like females in pastoral roles (ie. as clergy) and the sanctioning of homosexual behaviour and lifestyle greatly disturbed me.
2. Shunning: I was unhappy with the Baptist church, not least of my unhappiness stemming from an incident of church discipline from my family's past. In an effort to rebuke my father for countering church policy in a given matter, my family was unofficially excommunicated. We were shunned (in a matter not unlike that practiced by Amish) - all members of the church refused to acknowledge us whether in church or casually met in the street. I wanted a more controlled form of discipline, and I wanted to avoid Baptists!
3. Beards: In a couple areas I had more emotional reactions than major theological issues (threads 3-5). The topic of beards is one of these. I remember writing an essay defending beards at age 15, citing Scripture and arguing against cleanshaven cultural norms as coming from pagan traditions. I mean, God made them, right? so they have to be good.
4. A cappella: After a few years of listening to music like John Michael Talbot and Gregorian chant, my tastes in worship music were definitely leaning towards 'less instrumental is better'.
5. Cassocks & Crosses: I wanted Christians to be more of a people set apart. Identified by crosses, and perhaps by their clothing. Black always felt to me like such a prophetic colour - think Johnny Cash. In essence, I wanted God's holy people to declare themselves of God.
6. New Name: Having returned to God, I decided to follow in the footsteps of Abram, Jacob, Simon, and Saul, and take on a new name to describe a change in my spiritual state. I would keep that name until my Chrismation, two and a half years later.
7. Anti-Proselytism: Re-examining the tenets of my childhood, I found myself troubled by evangelism as it is usually practised. It seemed to me that "bringing people to Jesus" usually meant leaving them with Him, a Saviour they did not know. Where is the discipleship in this model? Where are Christian living and Christian words working in harmony? St.Francis said it best, I thought: "Go into all the world and preach the Gospel. Use words if necessary." [Of course, now I have met St.Seraphim, would declared that should a man be truly converted, he would convert thousands about him.] I wanted more than words to bring people to God.
8. Real Presence: Then, as I continued to read my Bible, I was struck by the force of the Gospels and the power of St.Paul's words (to the Corinthians) in describing the Eucharist, hitherto masked by the "symbolism" of my childhood faith. I had always been a little disturbed over the discrepancy seen in the reverence with which those about me went about a mere symbolic act. Then I read C.S.Lewis and his account of his "blasphemy" in partaking of Communion as a non-believer. Deeply troubled, I studied and prayed, and came to the inevitable conclusion that the bread and the wine aren't just that: they are the Real Presence of Christ, His very Body and Blood. Of course, this meant I needed to find a new church base where they also believed in the Real Presence, so I joined a high Anglican church.
9. Liturgy: The Book of Common Prayer, used in a high Anglican (Episcopal) service, introduced me to Liturgy. I quickly fell in love with the majesty of the language, and then found an unaccustomed peace in the sameness of the services. I discovered I loved liturgy, and attended as many services as I could. Yet developments in the church on same-sex unions caused me to look about for alternatives.
10. R.Catholicism: I begin devouring everything I could on the Roman Catholic Church (isn't Anglicanism nothing but R.C.Lite? we used to say): devotionals, magazines, newsletters, catechisms. Yet while I fell in love with many aspects of the Roman Catholic Church, I couldn't get past a few points: increasing liberalism, certain aspects of Roman Mariology, the celibate priesthood, and, of course, the Pope. I had no problem with the concept of a Holy Father - I just had difficulty accepting his primacy, his universal pastorate. I also thought a celibate priesthood a concept asking for problems and abuses. I also couldn't accept St.Mary as Co-Redemptrix (a current movement within R.C.ism).
11. Mariology: However, I had been exposed to Mary, in particular to her role as a mediator. I made the decision that I would only try praying to Mary if it was God's will. I told God I would need a wooden rosary, again, if such was His will. So one Pentecost I attended a friend's Tridentine mass (with three days notice). She gave me that day a wooden rosary that she had assembled herself in the intervening days, and had it blessed by the priest. I accepted the gift and the divine direction, and began praying it. Soon I started noticing a few small miracles happening that I could explain in no other way than by the mediation and intervention of Christ's Mother. Some experimental praying and a little faith in God led me to a profound sense of the Theotokos' presence in my life, in her love and protection.

More to come. Beg pardon for having more the soul of an orator than an editor.
-Vasya.

 

[MariaRegina]

Dear Vasya:

You left us with a clift hanger. Great journey to God. Please do continue your narration. It's fantastic how God works in our lives.

Lovingly in Christ our God,
Elizabeth

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Yep, don't leave us hanging for too long, Vasya!

 

[Michael G]

I know I posted the epic many part story of my conversion on this thread, but this is part of an email I just sent a person and I thought I would share it with everyone.

I was a Roman Catholic Seminarian when I started to seriously question some things which I held on to tightly. Once I began to question these things and began to learn about Orthodoxy and indeed embrace Orthodoxy, I found that much of my belief system which I had formed came unravelled. The thing that started the unravelling of my Catholic faith was a solid reading of the Apostolic Fathers of the Church, St. Ignatius of Antioch being primary of these. If you have the means I highly recommend you give these a good reading.

There are many things which I find that I now totally reject, that I once believed.

The Papacy. I was once the biggest fan of the Pope. I still love John Paul 2 as a man, because I think he is a very holy and intelligent man. But I do not accept the idea that he holds Primacy of Jurisdiction over the entire Church or that he is Infallible. The First Council of Nicea clearly says that no Bishop will have any jurisdiction outside of his Diocese. St. Ignatius of Antioch also develops a view of the Episcopacy which runs more along the Orthodox view of the Episcopacy than the Catholic view. In the Orthodox view all Bishops are equal and no one holds any more rank than any other, except in where they sit in a council or synod. Thus no Bishop may speak for the entire church. Also, Papal Infallibility was not declared until Vatican Council 1 in 1871.

The Filioque. I am sure you have heard all about this. We Orthodox take it very seriously. The words "and of the Son" were added to the Creed by the Local Council of Toledo in the 590s. They were never added by an Ecumenical Council. In the Orthodox view, nothing is binding unless it is decreed by an Ecumenical Council. The Filioque was added in order to fight Arianism, a noble enough cause, however the Popes resisted the change until threatened to do so under threat of military force by Charlemagne somewhere arround the year 800 AD. The filioque does not fit in with the way we view the procession of God.

Original Sin. The Orthodox view of Original Sin is to me much more forgiving than the Catholic view. The Catholic view is that all men carry the sin of Adam on their souls at birth. The Orthodox view is that all men suffer the effects of Adam's sin but are not guilty of that sin. The consequences of this are huge. We do not need the dogma of Immaculate Conception because Mary was not sinful by nature, even though she was flawed by sin. We do not need purgatory, either. Our view of Original Sin permeates what we as Orthodox Christians believe. Closely related is that we don't believe in mortal sin. Sin is sin. All sin is falling short of the grace of God. Only God can determine what sins will do more damage than other sins. Saying a swear word to me might be a minorly damaging sin (or not) but to a Holy Monk who has spent his entire life at communing with God and who is near blemishless it might be a hugely destructive sin. Only God can judge this, man can not. This being said, the Orthodox treatment of confession is much more what I had hoped for but rarely got when I was Catholic. Confession is spiritual surgery. You go to God the great Physician of Our Souls and explain to him where you are falling short of total love and service of him and ask him to heal your soul. It is not a matter of laws broken, etc, but rather a matter of where you are failing to let God's love totally encompass your life. Confession is more about how can I improve my life and relation to God than about doing pennance. Pennance is only reserved for the most serious situations. To me these differences in the view of Sin are astronomical.

The Divine Liturgy. This is a big one to me. I was always very disturbed by the New Order Mass which came out about 4 years before I was born. It just seemed like there was something seriously missing from it and like Priests were so easy to abuse it. I have never had this experience with a Divine Liturgy. If you ever get a chance to attend an Orthodox Divine Liturgy you will see that it is one of the most beautiful and devout experiences you will ever attend.

There are many other things about Orthodoxy which drew me away from Catholicism.

 

[MariaRegina]

Dear Michael:

Didn't your Orthodox Priest tell you that now that you are Orthodox you are fully a member of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Truly that hit home for me, especially when witnessing a Holy Baptism in the Orthodox Church. The term One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church was used many times in that wonderful ceremony of Initiation.

So your entrance into Holy Orthodoxy drew you further into Catholicism - the Catholic Church as witnessed by St. Ignatius of Antioch, who was one of the first persons to use that term: Where the bishop is, there is the Catholic Church.

Welcome home again.