Xpycoctomos
Well-Known Member
I'll really miss KATHXOUMENOS.
But welcome to TAW KATHXOUMENOC, my fellow greek-to-latin-letters transliterator
John
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Conversions to Orthodoxy
- Thread starter Matrona
- Start date
But welcome to TAW KATHXOUMENOC, my fellow greek-to-latin-letters transliterator
John
Torah613
Frum in the Chood yo!
My conversion was a long journey that wandered much but eventually found home.
I was raised in a devoutly Christian home (baptist tradition) in the American South. I enjoyed and still love that church for what it did teach me. But to me there was an enourmous amount missing. There was so much missing that I couldn't see how it could be completed. I lived in a town that did have a Catholic Church, and we did go to Midnight Mass at Christmas--but we didn't think they were Christians. Our biggest choice was whether or not we were Baptists or Methodists.
Well in my teen years my rebellion against the establishment became more concrete and I apostasized to the oriental mystical traditions. I sorta created my own religion out of a hodgepodge of Budhist, Dauist, Hindu, and Suffi beliefs and practices. Yet something was still missing. I realized that Christianity was "Where its at" but to be truthful I found more completeness in my "eastern" practices than I found in years of sunday school attendance etc.
Eventually I came back to Christianity and became a Roman Catholic. I was of the, ahem, more traditional variety (read: had doupts if the new mass was even a Mass, prayed the Rosary in Latin etc.) but still something was missing. Where was the mysticism?
I started going to the local (as in two hours away) Eastern Rite Catholic Church, and found it greatly enjoyable. There was still something missing there, but it was much less than what was missing elsewhere.
About that time I was doing a research project on the Ark of the Covenant and came across the Ethiopian Orthodox Church and by extension the Coptic Orthodox Church. While I never attended their liturgies, I was first exposed in any significant quantity to Orthodox Christianity through these two churches, particularly their online resources.
Eventually I looked up the local (again two hours plus away) ROCOR Church, but before I became a Catechumen I ended up going back to Rome as for some reason I couldn't get the phrase "Extra Ecclesia Nulla Salus" out of my head. I wasn't ready and had more growing to do before I could approach the font of immortality.
About a year later, I ended up going with the ROAC (similar in many ways to the HOoM for those in the know), but that, praised be Jesus Christ, didn't last. After a significant period of post cult detoxification at the same local ROCOR parish where I first attended the Divine Liturgy. I was made a Catechumen on Lazarus Saturday of that year.
For reasons I won't get into in such a public place I ended up attending a more moderate parish this time of hte OCA (about the same distance away) I had been aquainted with the Priest there for a number of years.
I had reconciled myself to being the perpetual outsider looking in, for I dared not hope that one day I would move beyond Catechumen. However, on December 11th 2005 (my first name day as an Orthodox Christian), I was Chrismated with the name Joseph after St. Joseph the All-Comely.
There are many roads to Orthodoxy. Some arrive through logic, reason, etc. I arrived through an entirely different route. To me it felt right. It felt true. I am a mystical person by nature, always looking for the symbolism behind things. Thomas Aquinas always read like Greek to me (pun intended) but the Hesychast fathers make sense. further proof I am an odd duck.
Joseph Zollars
I was raised in a devoutly Christian home (baptist tradition) in the American South. I enjoyed and still love that church for what it did teach me. But to me there was an enourmous amount missing. There was so much missing that I couldn't see how it could be completed. I lived in a town that did have a Catholic Church, and we did go to Midnight Mass at Christmas--but we didn't think they were Christians. Our biggest choice was whether or not we were Baptists or Methodists.
Well in my teen years my rebellion against the establishment became more concrete and I apostasized to the oriental mystical traditions. I sorta created my own religion out of a hodgepodge of Budhist, Dauist, Hindu, and Suffi beliefs and practices. Yet something was still missing. I realized that Christianity was "Where its at" but to be truthful I found more completeness in my "eastern" practices than I found in years of sunday school attendance etc.
Eventually I came back to Christianity and became a Roman Catholic. I was of the, ahem, more traditional variety (read: had doupts if the new mass was even a Mass, prayed the Rosary in Latin etc.) but still something was missing. Where was the mysticism?
I started going to the local (as in two hours away) Eastern Rite Catholic Church, and found it greatly enjoyable. There was still something missing there, but it was much less than what was missing elsewhere.
About that time I was doing a research project on the Ark of the Covenant and came across the Ethiopian Orthodox Church and by extension the Coptic Orthodox Church. While I never attended their liturgies, I was first exposed in any significant quantity to Orthodox Christianity through these two churches, particularly their online resources.
Eventually I looked up the local (again two hours plus away) ROCOR Church, but before I became a Catechumen I ended up going back to Rome as for some reason I couldn't get the phrase "Extra Ecclesia Nulla Salus" out of my head. I wasn't ready and had more growing to do before I could approach the font of immortality.
About a year later, I ended up going with the ROAC (similar in many ways to the HOoM for those in the know), but that, praised be Jesus Christ, didn't last. After a significant period of post cult detoxification at the same local ROCOR parish where I first attended the Divine Liturgy. I was made a Catechumen on Lazarus Saturday of that year.
For reasons I won't get into in such a public place I ended up attending a more moderate parish this time of hte OCA (about the same distance away) I had been aquainted with the Priest there for a number of years.
I had reconciled myself to being the perpetual outsider looking in, for I dared not hope that one day I would move beyond Catechumen. However, on December 11th 2005 (my first name day as an Orthodox Christian), I was Chrismated with the name Joseph after St. Joseph the All-Comely.
There are many roads to Orthodoxy. Some arrive through logic, reason, etc. I arrived through an entirely different route. To me it felt right. It felt true. I am a mystical person by nature, always looking for the symbolism behind things. Thomas Aquinas always read like Greek to me (pun intended) but the Hesychast fathers make sense. further proof I am an odd duck.
Joseph Zollars
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It sounds to be an interesting denomination..... This might sound stupid but what are some of the beliefs and rituals that seperate the Eastern Orthodox from other denominations?
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K
KATHXOYMENOC
Guest
SwordOfGod said:
Besides information from many Orthodox Websites, including TAW, Wikipedia has a lengthy page/article on "eastern orthodox church".
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SwordOfGod said:
Orthodoxy is a highly mystical and experiential faith.
if you like mysterious...come to us!!!
have a look around the TAW and ask as many questions as you like.
take care!
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K
Kolya
Guest
Welcome to TAW KATHXOUMENOC.
Much of what you say in your essay is what started me finally down the road to th EO Church.
Much of what you say in your essay is what started me finally down the road to th EO Church.
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Demetrius1
New Member
Hi, I'm new to CF and this is my first post. I've read many of the conversion stories and these attest truly to the famous quote "God works in mysterious ways". I was deeply moved by these stories and they are an affirmation to the fact that God, does reveal the truth to those who seek it. I truly give praise to Jesus Christ and thank Him for those that have truly found Him.
Demetrius
Demetrius
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K
Kolya
Guest
Welcome to TAW Demetrius! Yes. The Spirit is indeed working on our often stuborn hearts to lead us into all truth.
Kolya
Kolya
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HandmaidenOfGod
Christ is Risen! Indeed He is Risen!
While I have implied at times my path in Orthodoxy, I've never told the whole thing. Here is my story:
My parents met in 1975. My mother was born and raised in the Catholic Church, and my father was born and raised in the Ukrainian Orthodox Church that was founded by his maternal grandparents. In 1976 they were married in the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, but my mother did not convert to Orthodoxy.
In 1979 I was born, and in 1982 my sister followed. We were both baptized as infants into the Orthodox Church, and my father made sure that we went to Church every Sunday. Although we attended Sunday school every week, we really did not have a full understanding of what was going on, as the Liturgy was done primarily in Ukrainian and the teachings of the faith were not reinforced at home. (Although my father brought us to Church, he left it up to my Catholic mother to help us with our Sunday School homework and reinforce our faith at home.)
In 1990 my parents divorced, and my mother was granted full-time custody of my sister and I, with my father having us on alternating weekends. It was during this time that my mother became a "born-again" Christian, and would take us to a Baptist Church for Sunday and Wednesday services on the weekends she had us.
While I was initially resistant to this new change, and was upset that my mother was telling me the faith of my father's family was "wrong" and that unless they were "saved" they were all going to hell, I soon began to like the Baptist Church. The services were in English (big plus!), there were a lot of kids my age, and the music was "current and up to date." As a pre-teen, I began to view the Orthodox Church as being old fashioned and out of date. The Baptist Church was cool to me, and they didn't care whether I was 100% Ukrainian or not.
As I began to mature into a teenager, I began to get more and more involved with the Baptist Church, and began to distance myself from the Orthodox Church. While there was a brief period in my early twenties where I was going to the Orthodox Church full time, I soon reverted back to the Baptist Church. (I guess you could say I was doctrinely bi-polar! )
In November of 2003 I was re-baptized by full immersion in the Baptist Church. I was "saved," had my ticket to heaven, and nothing in heaven or hell could take that away from me. I had done it. I had shed the old ethnic shell of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, and was a full-fledged WASP. After all, I was an American! This was it, all I needed was my Bible and Jesus, and life was good.
But something was missing...
The Baptist Church I attended had become a Protestant mega-Church and had more programs to bring people to Christ than you could shake a stick at. They were constantly inventing and re-inventing themselves to appeal to the masses, but were constantly forgetting the most important thing; Christ. They had hung a projection screen in front of the only Cross in the Church so the minister could have a power point presentation to accompany his sermons.
Rather than preparing for services in prayer and mediation, the minister was doing sound checks, checking the lighting gels, and putting on make-up!
I couldn't help but think "this is what the early Church was like?"
It was during Great Lent of 2004 that I started to seriously contemplate leaving the Baptist Church. In 2004, both the East and the West celebrated Pascha/Easter on the same date. I knew that I should have been fasting during that time in preperation for Pascha. I knew that this was a solemn time. My Catholic friends/co-workers had their ashes on Ash Wednesday, the Lutherans draped their Churches in purple, and of course the Orthodox were in the great fast of Great and Holy Lent. Everyone was preparing for the most important date on the Christian calender except us Baptists and non-denominationals.
Something was wrong.
There was no solemness, no reverance, no preperation.
In Orthodoxy, Pascha is a ninety day event; forty days of fasting during Great Lent followed by fifty days of celebration until Pentacost. Not to mention the increased number of services and prayers said during this time. It's a big deal!
In the Baptist Church, Easter was marked by putting Easter lillies by the pulpit, changing the style of the bulletin, and including a few Easter hymns. Big-whoop-dee-doo! Christ conquers death and we put out Easter lillies.
I jumped on my computer and started researching other denominations within Christianity. I knew the Bible was true and that the doctrine of the Trinity was sound. That I never questioned. But where was the Church Christ established? The Bible said that the Church would never succoumb to the fires of hell, so where was the early Church?
In conducting my research I immediately eliminated any denominations that ordained women or homosexuals. Also removed from the list were any "non-denominational" or "store-front" Churches. As a history buff, I wanted a Church that had depth and history to it. Not just some store front that was the result of some one having a "vision from God" to create a Church. This removed all Protestant denominations from my list. I was then left with the Roman Catholic Church and The Orthodox Church.
As someone who was raised in two anti-papist Churches, I was a bit uneasy with the idea of falling in line with Rome. I never bought into the idea of Papal infallibility; it just didn't jive with me.
But alas, I thought I would give it a try. After all, could it be that I had misjudged the Catholic Church? The answer was a resounding "No!"
Two weeks before Easter I attended a Saturday Evening Mass. Any conceptions I may have had about the Catholic Church being a reverant house of worship flew out the window. The Norvus Ordo Mass of 1963 had made the Catholics Protestant, which is exactly what I was trying to avoid.
Men and women walked around the altar before Mass began as if it were nothing more than a coffee table. People were talking and laughing with no sense of respect that this was GOD's house. What disturbed me the most was during communion, seeing the Eucharistic ministers -- unordained men and women -- handing out the body and blood of Christ like it was cookies and milk!
It was then I knew that I had to return to Orthodoxy. I realized that the Protestant notions of "each man for himself" and "self-interpretation of the Bible" were nothing but a bunch of horsefeathers. I was an uneducated American who had no knowledge in the writings of the early Church Fathers and could not read a single word of Greek.
Who was Ito interpret the scriptures?
Who was I to question the Church Father's authority? These were men that had dedicated their lives to studying the scriptures in their original languages. I, on the other hand, had barely mastered conversational French! (C'est vrai!)
The Church existed for 360+ years prior to the canonization of the Bible. Obviously the early Church Father's teachings and writings had to have merit to carry the Church that far for that long.
I then got on my computer again and started reading about Orthodoxy.
Not the yellow and blue Ukrainian nationalistic Orthodoxy that I had been raised up with. I researched the real Orthodoxy. What the true doctrines of the Church were.
I went to message boards, church websites, diocese websites -- I can't tell you how many websites I visited! But I can tell you this: after doing all my research and all my reading I can, without a doubt say that the Orthodox Church IS the One, True Faith.
And so, on April 4, 2004 I returned to the Orthodox Church.
And that's my story.
In XC,
Maureen
My parents met in 1975. My mother was born and raised in the Catholic Church, and my father was born and raised in the Ukrainian Orthodox Church that was founded by his maternal grandparents. In 1976 they were married in the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, but my mother did not convert to Orthodoxy.
In 1979 I was born, and in 1982 my sister followed. We were both baptized as infants into the Orthodox Church, and my father made sure that we went to Church every Sunday. Although we attended Sunday school every week, we really did not have a full understanding of what was going on, as the Liturgy was done primarily in Ukrainian and the teachings of the faith were not reinforced at home. (Although my father brought us to Church, he left it up to my Catholic mother to help us with our Sunday School homework and reinforce our faith at home.)
In 1990 my parents divorced, and my mother was granted full-time custody of my sister and I, with my father having us on alternating weekends. It was during this time that my mother became a "born-again" Christian, and would take us to a Baptist Church for Sunday and Wednesday services on the weekends she had us.
While I was initially resistant to this new change, and was upset that my mother was telling me the faith of my father's family was "wrong" and that unless they were "saved" they were all going to hell, I soon began to like the Baptist Church. The services were in English (big plus!), there were a lot of kids my age, and the music was "current and up to date." As a pre-teen, I began to view the Orthodox Church as being old fashioned and out of date. The Baptist Church was cool to me, and they didn't care whether I was 100% Ukrainian or not.
As I began to mature into a teenager, I began to get more and more involved with the Baptist Church, and began to distance myself from the Orthodox Church. While there was a brief period in my early twenties where I was going to the Orthodox Church full time, I soon reverted back to the Baptist Church. (I guess you could say I was doctrinely bi-polar!
)In November of 2003 I was re-baptized by full immersion in the Baptist Church. I was "saved," had my ticket to heaven, and nothing in heaven or hell could take that away from me. I had done it. I had shed the old ethnic shell of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, and was a full-fledged WASP. After all, I was an American! This was it, all I needed was my Bible and Jesus, and life was good.
But something was missing...
The Baptist Church I attended had become a Protestant mega-Church and had more programs to bring people to Christ than you could shake a stick at. They were constantly inventing and re-inventing themselves to appeal to the masses, but were constantly forgetting the most important thing; Christ. They had hung a projection screen in front of the only Cross in the Church so the minister could have a power point presentation to accompany his sermons.
Rather than preparing for services in prayer and mediation, the minister was doing sound checks, checking the lighting gels, and putting on make-up!
I couldn't help but think "this is what the early Church was like?"
It was during Great Lent of 2004 that I started to seriously contemplate leaving the Baptist Church. In 2004, both the East and the West celebrated Pascha/Easter on the same date. I knew that I should have been fasting during that time in preperation for Pascha. I knew that this was a solemn time. My Catholic friends/co-workers had their ashes on Ash Wednesday, the Lutherans draped their Churches in purple, and of course the Orthodox were in the great fast of Great and Holy Lent. Everyone was preparing for the most important date on the Christian calender except us Baptists and non-denominationals.
Something was wrong.
There was no solemness, no reverance, no preperation.
In Orthodoxy, Pascha is a ninety day event; forty days of fasting during Great Lent followed by fifty days of celebration until Pentacost. Not to mention the increased number of services and prayers said during this time. It's a big deal!
In the Baptist Church, Easter was marked by putting Easter lillies by the pulpit, changing the style of the bulletin, and including a few Easter hymns. Big-whoop-dee-doo! Christ conquers death and we put out Easter lillies.
I jumped on my computer and started researching other denominations within Christianity. I knew the Bible was true and that the doctrine of the Trinity was sound. That I never questioned. But where was the Church Christ established? The Bible said that the Church would never succoumb to the fires of hell, so where was the early Church?
In conducting my research I immediately eliminated any denominations that ordained women or homosexuals. Also removed from the list were any "non-denominational" or "store-front" Churches. As a history buff, I wanted a Church that had depth and history to it. Not just some store front that was the result of some one having a "vision from God" to create a Church. This removed all Protestant denominations from my list. I was then left with the Roman Catholic Church and The Orthodox Church.
As someone who was raised in two anti-papist Churches, I was a bit uneasy with the idea of falling in line with Rome. I never bought into the idea of Papal infallibility; it just didn't jive with me.
But alas, I thought I would give it a try. After all, could it be that I had misjudged the Catholic Church? The answer was a resounding "No!"
Two weeks before Easter I attended a Saturday Evening Mass. Any conceptions I may have had about the Catholic Church being a reverant house of worship flew out the window. The Norvus Ordo Mass of 1963 had made the Catholics Protestant, which is exactly what I was trying to avoid.
Men and women walked around the altar before Mass began as if it were nothing more than a coffee table. People were talking and laughing with no sense of respect that this was GOD's house. What disturbed me the most was during communion, seeing the Eucharistic ministers -- unordained men and women -- handing out the body and blood of Christ like it was cookies and milk!
It was then I knew that I had to return to Orthodoxy. I realized that the Protestant notions of "each man for himself" and "self-interpretation of the Bible" were nothing but a bunch of horsefeathers. I was an uneducated American who had no knowledge in the writings of the early Church Fathers and could not read a single word of Greek.
Who was Ito interpret the scriptures?
Who was I to question the Church Father's authority? These were men that had dedicated their lives to studying the scriptures in their original languages. I, on the other hand, had barely mastered conversational French! (C'est vrai!)
The Church existed for 360+ years prior to the canonization of the Bible. Obviously the early Church Father's teachings and writings had to have merit to carry the Church that far for that long.
I then got on my computer again and started reading about Orthodoxy.
Not the yellow and blue Ukrainian nationalistic Orthodoxy that I had been raised up with. I researched the real Orthodoxy. What the true doctrines of the Church were.
I went to message boards, church websites, diocese websites -- I can't tell you how many websites I visited! But I can tell you this: after doing all my research and all my reading I can, without a doubt say that the Orthodox Church IS the One, True Faith.
And so, on April 4, 2004 I returned to the Orthodox Church.
And that's my story.
In XC,
Maureen
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I'm not a convert (yet) but have been studying Orthodoxy for a year or so. The biggest reason that I would convert is because, even before I learned of Orthodoxy, I had come to some conclusions about Christian doctrines, mostly basic practice such as Baptism, the Eucharist, and the mysticism of the Trinity.
On Baptism I concluded this:
1. Immersion was the early practice of the Apostles.
2. Infants were to be baptized.
These were conclusions I came to on my own before knowing of the Orthodox Church's doctrines. I was absolutely convinced this was the original way of the Apostles - that they didn't just say any practice was OK depending on taste. I looked and there was no such thing as Immersion Baptism for infants in any denomination that I could find. (Although Luther indicated that Baptism was by immersion, but most if not all modern Lutherans sprinkle or pour now.) I was surprised when I discovered that Orthodox baptize by Immersion - including infants and children!
Another doctrine that I was convinced of was concerning the Eucharist. The Orthodox Faith keeps the mystery of both bread and wine as body and blood. Catholics over-define the bread and wine away. Protestants either make it a symbol or don't go far enough in confessing it as Body and Blood of Christ. Orthodoxy maintains the perfect balanced doctrine on this.
I remember going to a church service with my dad when I was a child. I was offended that I could not share in the communion - that it was for adults only. That stuck in my heart even until today I can remember it vividly - how can we offend a little one who believes in Jesus Christ just because of age? Orthodoxy invites even the youngest to take part in the Eucharist. To me, this doctrine is more precious than to most people because of my personal experience as a child being excluded. Yes, I was just a child, but if Jesus said unto such belongs the Kingdom of Heaven, it's a sin to keep away children from the Eucharist.
The Trinity was the most important aspect. Everything in Orthodoxy centers on the Mystical aspects of the Triune God. In my searching and seeking and reflections on the Trinity, I came to certain conclusions on my own. When I read the Orthodox teachings about the Trinity and theosis, it rang so true to my own personal experience in seeking the Truth, that I realized I'd found the expression of the Christian religion I was trying to find for years.
There's much more to this story that involves even miracles, but too much to explain here. I have issues with some language used in prayer to the Theotokos in some services I've read as well as some other practices, but I can overlook them as eccentricities and non-essentials.
This is just the theological aspects of my conversion. There are personal experiences that are pushing me this way as well. Thanks for reading.
On Baptism I concluded this:
1. Immersion was the early practice of the Apostles.
2. Infants were to be baptized.
These were conclusions I came to on my own before knowing of the Orthodox Church's doctrines. I was absolutely convinced this was the original way of the Apostles - that they didn't just say any practice was OK depending on taste. I looked and there was no such thing as Immersion Baptism for infants in any denomination that I could find. (Although Luther indicated that Baptism was by immersion, but most if not all modern Lutherans sprinkle or pour now.) I was surprised when I discovered that Orthodox baptize by Immersion - including infants and children!
Another doctrine that I was convinced of was concerning the Eucharist. The Orthodox Faith keeps the mystery of both bread and wine as body and blood. Catholics over-define the bread and wine away. Protestants either make it a symbol or don't go far enough in confessing it as Body and Blood of Christ. Orthodoxy maintains the perfect balanced doctrine on this.
I remember going to a church service with my dad when I was a child. I was offended that I could not share in the communion - that it was for adults only. That stuck in my heart even until today I can remember it vividly - how can we offend a little one who believes in Jesus Christ just because of age? Orthodoxy invites even the youngest to take part in the Eucharist. To me, this doctrine is more precious than to most people because of my personal experience as a child being excluded. Yes, I was just a child, but if Jesus said unto such belongs the Kingdom of Heaven, it's a sin to keep away children from the Eucharist.
The Trinity was the most important aspect. Everything in Orthodoxy centers on the Mystical aspects of the Triune God. In my searching and seeking and reflections on the Trinity, I came to certain conclusions on my own. When I read the Orthodox teachings about the Trinity and theosis, it rang so true to my own personal experience in seeking the Truth, that I realized I'd found the expression of the Christian religion I was trying to find for years.
There's much more to this story that involves even miracles, but too much to explain here. I have issues with some language used in prayer to the Theotokos in some services I've read as well as some other practices, but I can overlook them as eccentricities and non-essentials.
This is just the theological aspects of my conversion. There are personal experiences that are pushing me this way as well. Thanks for reading.
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K
Kolya
Guest
HandmaidenOfGod said:
Maureen, was that your Chrismation date? If so, we were Chrismated on the same day! One can not forget that date. It was Palm Sunday, and the date was 04/04/04!
Onwave, thank's for your story. We're praying for you!
God bless
In IC XC
Kolya
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MariaRegina
Well-Known Member
That has me thinking:
What will happen on 06/06/06? I know that a horror film is due to be released on the end times.
I was chrismated on Lazarus Saturday 04/06/96 ten years ago.
What will happen on 06/06/06? I know that a horror film is due to be released on the end times.
I was chrismated on Lazarus Saturday 04/06/96 ten years ago.
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I think Michael said enough.
Happy Orthodox
Senior Member
Maureen, that was a beautiful story! Hearttouching!
And this relates also to others who have put their stories in recently, thank you! It's a joy to see new souls find the peace of Jesus the Lord in the Orthodox Church.
And this relates also to others who have put their stories in recently, thank you! It's a joy to see new souls find the peace of Jesus the Lord in the Orthodox Church.
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HandmaidenOfGod
Christ is Risen! Indeed He is Risen!
Kolya said:Maureen, was that your Chrismation date? If so, we were Chrismated on the same day! One can not forget that date. It was Palm Sunday, and the date was 04/04/04!
Onwave, thank's for your story. We're praying for you!
God bless
In IC XC
Kolya
No Kolya, I was Chrismated on Sept 30, 1979. Sorry!
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ClementofRome
Spelunking the most ancient caves of Xianity
DavidG said:
WOW....that just blew me away.
Thank you so much for sharing that.
Clem
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Rdr Iakovos
Well-Known Member
DavidG, Archimandrite Vasileios has written that we are all to become 'theologian souls.' We do so, in the manner that the fathers and mothers of the Church did, by not just going deep, but beneath all depth to the disappearance of self and loss of everything. The thief on the cross did this, after having berated the Lord. He contemplated his disease, and saw the cure clearly. Therefore, he became a theologian, saying "receive me today, Son of God."DavidG said:
It is clear from your words that in contemplating all that you have and are, you have realized that your only hope in gaining life is to surrender it, to go beneath all depth.
In so doing, out of your words rises the theology of the whole, the Church.
Thank you for your powerful testimony, and may God bless you with many years and much peace, in joy and in sorrow.
Iakovos the Reader.
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