Conversions to Orthodoxy

[lmnop9876]

i am not orthodox, but am very interested in it. i don't have a problem with reverent commemoration of the lives of deceased saints, but i am not persuaded that it is entirely biblical to pray to them. i don't have a problem with icons of the saints and the virgin Mary, but i do have a problem with icons of Christ. these are probably the two major things that are keeping me from orthodoxy, along with prayers for the dead. i know that prayers to the saints and for the dead are only encouraged, not commanded, but they are included in the liturgy, so they would be unavoidable (unless i could find a church that used st. james' liturgy). the best thing about orthodoxy is the freedom that is allowed. you are not tied down to a particular doctrine of the sacraments, or salvation, or anything of the sort. i am a great admirer of Cyril I Lucaris, a patriarch of alexandria and constantinople during the 1600's. he dared to stand up for what he believed to be true, and it was possible within the orthodox church, without going outside the bounds of the Bible, the Creed, and the 7 councils.
anyway, that's my two-cents worth.

 

[xristos.anesti]

So, you do not object praying for the dead/intercession of the heavenly Church, but you see it as matter of discipline - not commanded and not doctrine? And you have a problem with Iconography of Lord!?

Is this fair to say?

Why don't you make you contras, quieries and problems formulated into a separate thread, with your views and observations, beliefs and theories so we can all have a big BBQ and discuss the issues.

Welcome to TAW.

Many years, mate!

 

[lmnop9876]

ummm.
i do object to praying for the dead, and i do object to asking angels and departed saints for intercession, and i do object to pictures of Jesus. however, apart from the last one, I don't believe that there is any rule in orthodoxy saying that it is official doctrine. therefore I can still be orthodox and not say prayers to the saints and for the dead?
however, as prayers for the dead and to the saints are included in the two major liturgies, I would only be comfortable in an Orthodox church that used the liturgy of St. James, which does not include these things (well, as far as I know anyway).
as i was saying, the good thing about orthodoxy is that it allows each person to hold their own doctrinal views, as long as these are in basic accordance with Scripture, the Creed, and the 7 councils (e.g. Cyril Lucaris)

 

[Kolya]

ummm.
as i was saying, the good thing about orthodoxy is that it allows each person to hold their own doctrinal views, as long as these are in basic accordance with Scripture, the Creed, and the 7 councils (e.g. Cyril Lucaris)

The 7th council was convened particularly to discuss the issue of icon veneration, as you probably know. At that council ALL icons were approved, includind depicting God Incarnate, Christ!

 

[Xpycoctomos]

PJW... How did you decide on the ultimate list of the Bible, the Creed and the Eccumenical Councils (which... actually, hold firm to the belief that "pictures of Jesus" are essential to our faith) as seemingly infallible sources from which to live. As Orthodox, it is not a simple list of Holy sources.. it is the Source God gave us... the Pillar and Ground of Truth: The Church. It is a living and dynamic Church and we are to live from and learn from the Church. It is not to say that every word uttered by this or that bishop or lay person is to be respected as the Word of God... but those things that have entered and defined the mindset of the Church (praying to Saints, praying for our loved ones (and enemies) who have passed on (simply because we... believe in prayer and it is what we are called to do: love one another) and pondering pictures of Jesus and the Saints who have fought before us... THESE things are PART of the Church. You cannot look at the Othodox Church as a trivial list of the essntials and non-essentials. You gotta live it to the best of your ability. Sometimes I am thankful that the OC does not have a codified catechism because it forces one to explore and LIVE the Church to learn about Her.... not simply fall under the delusion that if he or she follows this list of essentials and reads this and that that they are somehow even the least bit cognicint (spelling?) of what it means to be Orthodox.

In all sincerity, God bless you on your journey and I am happy that you are looking at Orthodoxy or at least learning from it.

In Christ,

John

 

[ElenaS]

I found this site yesterday and after reading a good number of them, i wanted to say thank you to all of you for sharing. I'm not yet officially Orthodox, but I've been pulled in that direction for a few years now. I could go into more detail (and maybe I will later), but for now I just wanted to say hello and thank all of you for the encouragement your posts gave me.

 

[Kolya]

I found this site yesterday and after reading a good number of them, i wanted to say thank you to all of you for sharing. I'm not yet officially Orthodox, but I've been pulled in that direction for a few years now. I could go into more detail (and maybe I will later), but for now I just wanted to say hello and thank all of you for the encouragement your posts gave me.

WELCOME TO TAW ELENA!!!
And we look forward to more posts.
Many years to you, and may God direct you in your search.
Kolya

 

[Dust and Ashes]

I found this site yesterday and after reading a good number of them, i wanted to say thank you to all of you for sharing. I'm not yet officially Orthodox, but I've been pulled in that direction for a few years now. I could go into more detail (and maybe I will later), but for now I just wanted to say hello and thank all of you for the encouragement your posts gave me.

Welcome to TAW!

 

[lmnop9876]

yes, i know that the 7th council commanded icons of christ, i was just making the point that outside of the direct teachings of the bible, the 7 councils, and the creed, i would not be BOUND to maintain any other orthodox doctrines. i think the distinction needs to be made between the teaching of a majority of theologians at a certain point in time, and the official doctrine of the orthodox church. for example, no official doctrine has ever been formulated as to the nature of Christ's presence in the eucharist, simply leaving it as a mystery. however, different theologians have adopted different viewpoints about the nature of this mystery. if you see what i mean? that is the great thing about orthodoxy, as i said before. just like the early church, it allows for a great fluency in doctrine and practice on matters that are not essential to our salvation. anyway, i'll start a new thread about this.

pjw

 

[Philip]

yes, i know that the 7th council commanded icons of christ, i was just making the point that outside of the direct teachings of the bible, the 7 councils, and the creed, i would not be BOUND to maintain any other orthodox doctrines.

This is not so. Orthodoxy is not a check list of dogmas that must be accepted. It is a mindset, an way of life.

for example, no official doctrine has ever been formulated as to the nature of Christ's presence in the eucharist, simply leaving it as a mystery.

Yes and no. That Christ is truly and physically present in the Eucharist is not negotiable.

however, different theologians have adopted different viewpoints about the nature of this mystery. if you see what i mean? that is the great thing about orthodoxy, as i said before. just like the early church, it allows for a great fluency in doctrine and practice on matters that are not essential to our salvation. anyway, i'll start a new thread about this.

Prayers for the departed and the intercession of the Saints do not fall into these categories. Accepting these practices are essential for our understanding of the Church, and hence, our salvation.

 

[prodromos]

pjw and those responding, would it be OK if this discussion was taken to a new thread? It doesn't seem appropriate here

Thanks.
John

 

[Xpycoctomos]

Good point John. Sorry bout that. Good discussion. I'll see if it has been started up anywhere else.

In regards to anyone wanting to share their conversion story... share on!!!

John

 

[Philip]

pjw and those responding, would it be OK if this discussion was taken to a new thread? It doesn't seem appropriate here

Thanks.
John

That is wise.

It seems that pjw has started another thread in the main section of TAW. Perhaps a mod could clean up this one?

 

[rainbowbright]

I'll try to make mine as short as possible.

I grew up in the military and just went to the air force base chapel which is generic protestant. My dad is very strict Southern baptist and my mom is methodost and we have been able to trace her family all the way back to England in the 8th century- so therefore, my ancestors were Puritans.? I grew up extremely anti-catholic. Then I met my husband and found out he was Episcopalian, which I had never heard of before. So I went to and Episcopal church for the first time and realized it was catholic, but... I really liked it and so kept going and finally got baptized when I was 20 then confirmed and few months later. I was driving along in the Episcopal church for four years and then realized it felt really empty. So I started praying hard. I had never realized that while in the Episcopal church, I was steadily becoming more and more catholic, to my parents' horror, and ended up in a high-church parish, but that wasn't catholic enough. So, naturally, I started thinking about the Catholic church My husband and I researched it and decided that it was the right thing to do. So, immediately, we tried to become Catholic but we had a hang-up in that my husband was married before. So we tried for almost two years to have an annulmet granted, but he couldn't get a hold of his ex-wife or the people he knew in those years for a testimony The annulment was denied and we thought we were being condemned. My husband was going through a trial of trying to become buddhist and I was trying to keep him Christian. Then we remembered the Orthodox Church that we had researched a few years earlier. My husband's uncle is a hieromonk- he's actually quite famous, so we thought if he had family that is Orthodox, we'd give it a try. First time we walked into Liturgy, I knew that this is where I belonged. We became Catechumins a month later and since I was had my daughter in January, my priest thought it would be a good idea to bring us all in at the same time as a family and that happened in March and ever since then I have had nothing but demonic attacks and this has been the single most difficult year of my life, so I guess I'm in the right place!!!

THE END.

p.s. sorry about my grammar, I've been out of school for such a long time and being a SAHM is eating away at my brain.

 

[MariaRegina]

I'll try to make mine as short as possible.

I grew up in the military and just went to the air force base chapel which is generic protestant. My dad is very strict Southern baptist and my mom is methodost and we have been able to trace her family all the way back to England in the 8th century- so therefore, my ancestors were Puritans.? I grew up extremely anti-catholic. Then I met my husband and found out he was Episcopalian, which I had never heard of before. So I went to and Episcopal church for the first time and realized it was catholic, but... I really liked it and so kept going and finally got baptized when I was 20 then confirmed and few months later. I was driving along in the Episcopal church for four years and then realized it felt really empty. So I started praying hard. I had never realized that while in the Episcopal church, I was steadily becoming more and more catholic, to my parents' horror, and ended up in a high-church parish, but that wasn't catholic enough. So, naturally, I started thinking about the Catholic church My husband and I researched it and decided that it was the right thing to do. So, immediately, we tried to become Catholic but we had a hang-up in that my husband was married before. So we tried for almost two years to have an annulmet granted, but he couldn't get a hold of his ex-wife or the people he knew in those years for a testimony The annulment was denied and we thought we were being condemned. My husband was going through a trial of trying to become buddhist and I was trying to keep him Christian. Then we remembered the Orthodox Church that we had researched a few years earlier. My husband's uncle is a hieromonk- he's actually quite famous, so we thought if he had family that is Orthodox, we'd give it a try. First time we walked into Liturgy, I knew that this is where I belonged. We became Catechumins a month later and since I was had my daughter in January, my priest thought it would be a good idea to bring us all in at the same time as a family and that happened in March and ever since then I have had nothing but demonic attacks and this has been the single most difficult year of my life, so I guess I'm in the right place!!!

THE END.

p.s. sorry about my grammar, I've been out of school for such a long time and being a SAHM is eating away at my brain.

If you can trace your history back to 8th Century England ... then your ancestors were Orthodox Christians. King Henry VIII came along much later in the 16th Century.

Welcome Home to Orthodoxy.

 

[rainbowbright]

If you can trace your history back to 8th Century England ... then your ancestors were Orthodox Christians. King Henry VIII came along much later in the 16th Century.

Welcome Home to Orthodoxy.

I know, I was just jumping the gun a little bit to make it shorter and didn't really know how to tie it up, but thanks for pointing that out!

 

[Kolya]

I know, I was just jumping the gun a little bit to make it shorter and didn't really know how to tie it up, but thanks for pointing that out!

Hi Alisa,
Thanks for sharing your story, and welcome Home to Orthodoxy. We're glad to have you with us. I'm sorry to hear how the demons have been attacking, but you are in our prayers.
Kolya

 

[Xpycoctomos]

I'll try to make mine as short as possible.

I grew up in the military and just went to the air force base chapel which is generic protestant. My dad is very strict Southern baptist and my mom is methodost and we have been able to trace her family all the way back to England in the 8th century- so therefore, my ancestors were Puritans.? I grew up extremely anti-catholic. Then I met my husband and found out he was Episcopalian, which I had never heard of before. So I went to and Episcopal church for the first time and realized it was catholic, but... I really liked it and so kept going and finally got baptized when I was 20 then confirmed and few months later. I was driving along in the Episcopal church for four years and then realized it felt really empty. So I started praying hard. I had never realized that while in the Episcopal church, I was steadily becoming more and more catholic, to my parents' horror, and ended up in a high-church parish, but that wasn't catholic enough. So, naturally, I started thinking about the Catholic church My husband and I researched it and decided that it was the right thing to do. So, immediately, we tried to become Catholic but we had a hang-up in that my husband was married before. So we tried for almost two years to have an annulmet granted, but he couldn't get a hold of his ex-wife or the people he knew in those years for a testimony The annulment was denied and we thought we were being condemned. My husband was going through a trial of trying to become buddhist and I was trying to keep him Christian. Then we remembered the Orthodox Church that we had researched a few years earlier. My husband's uncle is a hieromonk- he's actually quite famous, so we thought if he had family that is Orthodox, we'd give it a try. First time we walked into Liturgy, I knew that this is where I belonged. We became Catechumins a month later and since I was had my daughter in January, my priest thought it would be a good idea to bring us all in at the same time as a family and that happened in March and ever since then I have had nothing but demonic attacks and this has been the single most difficult year of my life, so I guess I'm in the right place!!!

THE END.

p.s. sorry about my grammar, I've been out of school for such a long time and being a SAHM is eating away at my brain.

That's quite a story! Welcome to TAW and the Orthodox Church

 

[Kolya]

My wife and I were talking while on the way to church last Sunday, and we were discussing people we knew who had died of cancer. My own mom died of cancer of the pancreas in 1988.

Then like a bolt from then blue the idea hit me.

I had often wondered how that God had led me under the most unlikely of circumstances to discover Orthodoxy. In a country of 40 million people, there are perhaps between 300 to 1000 converts to Orthodoxy. You do the math. It’s something akin to winning the lottery. J Most Orthodox here is ethic Greeks, Serbians and Russians. How had I managed to find the way?

As I said, it finally dawned on me, and it still brings salt water to my eyes when I think of it. My dear mother was as pious a Christian as she could be with the religious understanding granted to her. I am certain that our Lord and Saviour had Mercy on her soul. And what did she do when she ‘arrived’ on the other side? I can almost hear her, as she started praying and interceding for her children.

My dad fell asleep last year just over a month after I was Chrismated. I could not tell him the decision I had made before the time, as he was old and frail, and he would not have understood. But I’m quite sure he understands now, and is praying just as hard for my two sisters to discover the ‘Pearl of Great Price’ too.

My parents were not Orthodox and they’re not Saints, but I feel instinctively that my mother’s prayers played a great role in my conversion.



James 5:16 “Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.”

 

[Petronius]

[

I had often wondered how that God had led me under the most unlikely of circumstances to discover Orthodoxy. In a country of 40 million people, there are perhaps between 300 to 1000 converts to Orthodoxy. You do the math. It’s something akin to winning the lottery. J Most Orthodox here is ethic Greeks, Serbians and Russians. How had I managed to find the way?

What is that country ?