Confused about the commandment that was "abolished." (2)

[bugkiller]

The covenant upon which salvation through Christ is offered that is nowhere to be seen in the Old Covenant.

and

bugkiller

 

[tzadik]

It refers to the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus which has set us free from the law of sin and death.

You're theologizing.

Jeremiah says MY Law..as in the Law of God. (Unless you want to open the 'Jesus was talking in Jeremiah' can of worms)

You can't read or assume things into the text. When Jeremiah wrote "My Law (Torah), he did not give any indication of a different Law than the other 12 times he used the word in the rest of the book of Jeremiah...

 

[bugkiller]

I asked you a question...

And he answered your question. If the New covenant is the same as the old covenant then My law is also the covenant law in entirety.

bugkiller

 

[tzadik]

your question has been answered a dozen times by others... no need for a repeat as you have dismissed their answers why do you need mine to dismiss?

Actually it has not.
Jeremiah says MY LAW...

all the answers I've gotten try to explain that phrase away using cherry-picked verses from other passages.

The New Covenant is defined in Jeremiah 31, so I would think you should be able to find your answer in the text, or atleast in the book.

Jeremiah wrote Jeremiah, not Paul.

 

[tzadik]

Please PM me with your required answer and I wlll post it. This has been answered ad nauseum in GT.

bugkiller

It hasn't buggy.

I've taken you through Jeremiah ---the entire book and showed you what "MY LAW" refers to in all 12 of his mentions...

Not one was He talking about some "new fancy law". It doesn't exist. Or atleast He would've referred to it, instead of calling it what it's always been called ; THE LAW OF GOD.

 

[tzadik]

And he answered your question. If the New covenant is the same as the old covenant then My law is also the covenant law in entirety.

False.
Jeremiah 31 explains the difference between the Old Covenant and the New.

NOWHERE in the text does he mention ANYTHING about the Law changing, or getting tweaked or ANYTHING of that nature.

You're adding to the text to get that result.

It simply is not there.

 

[tzadik]

The covenant upon which salvation through Christ is offered that is nowhere to be seen in the Old Covenant.

How were they saved in the "OT"? (if not through THE WAY, THEY TRUTH and THE LIFE)

 

[Sophrosyne]

How were they saved in the "OT"? (if not through THE WAY, THEY TRUTH and THE LIFE)

Nobody was saved in the OT..... salvation did not exist until the time of the cross it was only a promise for those God deemed as righteous in faith like Abraham.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Please PM me with your required answer and I wlll post it. This has been answered ad nauseum in GT.

bugkiller

Good luck on that effort just a wild goose chase IMO.

 

[MoreCoffee]

It refers to the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus which has set us free from the law of sin and death.

Take a look at 2 Corinthians 3:6b-11 to see what the law written and engraved on stone is called.

It is the law of death and condemnation.

The law from which Christians are set free.

So as to serve under a new covenant, a better one.

The covenant in Christ.

You're theologizing.

Jeremiah says MY Law..as in the Law of God. (Unless you want to open the 'Jesus was talking in Jeremiah' can of worms)

You can't read or assume things into the text. When Jeremiah wrote "My Law (Torah), he did not give any indication of a different Law than the other 12 times he used the word in the rest of the book of Jeremiah...

I quoted from the bible. You didn't recognise the scriptures. That's a pity.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. (Romans 8:2 NRSV)

for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Now if the ministry of death, chiselled in letters on stone tablets, came in glory so that the people of Israel could not gaze at Moses' face because of the glory of his face, a glory now set aside, how much more will the ministry of the Spirit come in glory? For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, much more does the ministry of justification abound in glory! Indeed, what once had glory has lost its glory because of the greater glory; for if what was set aside came through glory, much more has the permanent come in glory! (2 Corinthians 3:6-11 NRSV)

But Jesus has now obtained a more excellent ministry, and to that degree he is the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted through better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no need to look for a second one. (Hebrews 8:6-7 NRSV)

But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel. (Hebrews 12:22-24 NRSV)
​

It's theologhising to those who refuse to be subjected to the teaching of Jesus Christ in sacred scripture.

 

[tzadik]

I quoted from the bible. You didn't recognise the scriptures. That's a pity.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. (Romans 8:2 NRSV)

for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Now if the ministry of death, chiselled in letters on stone tablets, came in glory so that the people of Israel could not gaze at Moses' face because of the glory of his face, a glory now set aside, how much more will the ministry of the Spirit come in glory? For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, much more does the ministry of justification abound in glory! Indeed, what once had glory has lost its glory because of the greater glory; for if what was set aside came through glory, much more has the permanent come in glory! (2 Corinthians 3:6-11 NRSV)

But Jesus has now obtained a more excellent ministry, and to that degree he is the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted through better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no need to look for a second one. (Hebrews 8:6-7 NRSV)

But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel. (Hebrews 12:22-24 NRSV)
​

It's theologhising to those who refuse to be subjected to the teaching of Jesus Christ in sacred scripture.

Theologizing is diverting from the Scripture passage in question and inserting cherry-picked references in said passage.

Jeremiah says "MY LAW". We need to understand "MY LAW" from Jeremiah's perspective and context. Not by whatever context and perspective we want to choose.

Jeremiah has used the phrase "My law (torah)" or "law (torah)" 12 other times in his book and ALL of them are referencing God's ONE and ONLY Law.

The burden of proof is on you to show me in Jeremiah 31 where Jeremiah means "a different Law" than God's Holy Law...

 

[tzadik]

Nobody was saved in the OT

If you want to get technical...you're not yet saved either!

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. -1 Peter 1:3-5

salvation did not exist until the time of the cross

If you seriously do not believe that the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the earth, therefore sealing all of His elect even before the "chronological death" you are sorely mistaken.

God's amazing salvation is not confined to our humanly timetables and chronological lines. Abraham was imputed righteousness in the same way I was imputed righteousness; BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH.

it was only a promise for those God deemed as righteous in faith like Abraham.

There are not two methods of salvation. Only one.

Anyone who says different is calling Yeshua a liar, for He said "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me."

 

[MoreCoffee]

Theologizing is diverting from the Scripture passage in question and inserting cherry-picked references in said passage.

Jeremiah says" MY LAW". We need to understand "MY LAW" from Jeremiah's perspective and context. Not by whatever context and perspective we want to choose.

If you dislike it so much then stop doing it yourself!

 

[bugkiller]

Theologizing is diverting from the Scripture passage in question and inserting cherry-picked references in said passage.

Jeremiah says "MY LAW". We need to understand "MY LAW" from Jeremiah's perspective and context. Not by whatever context and perspective we want to choose.

Jeremiah has used the phrase "My law (torah)" or "law (torah)" 12 other times in his book and ALL of them are referencing God's ONE and ONLY Law.

The burden of proof is on you to show me in Jeremiah 31 where Jeremiah means "a different Law" than God's Holy Law...

It seems to me you are the one who has made an issue of the whole word of God. So why are your complaining about passages that prove your idea wrong? In light of the whole Woprd of God you argue you must deal with those passages and not merely complain about them if you are going to be honest. And no I did not accuse you of anything. There is no ad hominem in this post. My Latin is improving.

In reference to Jeremiah 31 I wish to ask you how does not according to mean just like?

bugkiller

 

[Sophrosyne]

If you want to get technical...you're not yet saved either!

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. -1 Peter 1:3-5


If you seriously do not believe that the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the earth, therefore sealing all of His elect even before the "chronological death" you are sorely mistaken.

God's amazing salvation is not confined to our humanly timetables and chronological lines. Abraham was imputed righteousness in the same way I was imputed righteousness; BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH.

There are not two methods of salvation. Only one.

Anyone who says different is calling Yeshua a liar, for He said "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me."

The whole new testament talks about salvation and Paul himself equates it at the cross not before it. Imputed righteousness isn't the same as the righteousness delivered... imputed means promised later.

 

[bugkiller]

If you want to get technical...you're not yet saved either!

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. -1 Peter 1:3-5

This is the last times/days.

If you seriously do not believe that the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the earth, therefore sealing all of His elect even before the "chronological death" you are sorely mistaken.

Then do you believe in fatalism? No one has a choice as everything is predetermined and man has no free will. If so then we are wasting our time with thing that do not matter because they are not changable.

bugkiller

 

[Sophrosyne]

This is the last times/days.Then do you believe in fatalism? No one has a choice as everything is predetermined and man has no free will. If so then we are wasting our time with thing that do not matter because they are not changable.

bugkiller

yes the problem with predeterminism is if completely done to the extreme it makes man a robot and God a tyrant as man cannot choose or reject God by his own will on any level therefore man cannot be held responsible for his actions especially when it comes to sin and salvation he has no choice in the matter.

 

[tzadik]

If you dislike it so much then stop doing it yourself!

AH...classic.

Are you able to define "My Law" from Jeremiah's context and perspective, staying true to the text?

 

[tzadik]

This is the last times/days.Then do you believe in fatalism? No one has a choice as everything is predetermined and man has no free will. If so then we are wasting our time with thing that do not matter because they are not changable.

bugkiller

I've been accused of having a reading problem.
So maybe you can enlighten me. Does the text say last times...or last time?

Have you already been given your "gifts" kept in heaven for you?


19. "Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;
20. and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you,
21. whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.

This happening for you already too?

 

[tzadik]

In reference to Jeremiah 31 I wish to ask you how does not according to mean just like?

bugkiller

lol.

Pretty sure Jeremiah does a good job explaining what WILL change in the covenants.

What I missed was the part where he said ANYTHING about the LAW changing... (unless you are referring to the change of locations)

What do you find?