Conception of Hell

[rstrats]

357magnum,

None of the verses that you reference in your post #80 say anything about eternal conscious suffering. In fact there is not a single scripture that specifically and unequivocally says that anyone - with the possible exception of Satan, and maybe the beast and the false prophet (depending on the Bible version that you are using) - is going to spend eternity in never ending conscious torment. You have to WANT to believe in eternal suffering if you try to read into scripture something that simply isn’t there.

Scripture says that "the wages of sin is death". I just don’t understand why you wouldn’t rather believe that as opposed to believing that the wages of sin results in being given immortality and then being given a sentence of eternal life to be served out in never ending conscious torment.

 

[Aimiel]

Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

If you want to believe that those who are in the Lake of Fire aren't tormented forever, that's up to you; but Scripture is quite clear as to how long people will be tormented in flames.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LLOJ subscribes

 

[rstrats]

Aimiel,


re: "And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever..."

This only says that smoke goes up forever.
　

re: "... Scripture is quite clear as to how long people will be tormented in flames. "

Show me one verse that specifically and unequivocally says that anyone - with the possible exception of Satan, and maybe the beast and the false prophet (depending on the Bible version that you are using) - is going to spend eternity in never ending conscious torment.

 

[Aimiel]

I did. If you can't see it, I can't remove your blinders.

 

[Timothew]

I did. If you can't see it, I can't remove your blinders.

Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. 18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
19I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness. 20When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. 21What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life inb Christ Jesus our Lord.

If you can't see it, I can't remove your blinders!

 

[JesusFreak78]

Aimiel,


re: "And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever..."

This only says that smoke goes up forever.
　

re: "... Scripture is quite clear as to how long people will be tormented in flames. "

Show me one verse that specifically and unequivocally says that anyone - with the possible exception of Satan, and maybe the beast and the false prophet (depending on the Bible version that you are using) - is going to spend eternity in never ending conscious torment.

Where is the smoke coming from?

 

[rstrats]

JesusFreak78,

re: "Where is the smoke coming from?"

From the folks that are burned up.

 

[JesusFreak78]

JesusFreak78,

re: "Where is the smoke coming from?"

From the folks that are burned up.

How do you know they are burned up?

 

[rstrats]

JesusFreak78,

re: "How do you know they are burned up?"

How do you know that they aren’t?

Malachi 4:1: "For behold the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall BURN THEM UP, saith the lord of hosts..."

Also, Psalms 37:20: "But the wicked shall perish...into SMOKE SHALL THEY CONSUME AWAY."

 

[JesusFreak78]

JesusFreak78,

re: "How do you know they are burned up?"

How do you know that they aren’t?

Malachi 4:1: "For behold the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall BURN THEM UP, saith the lord of hosts..."

Also, Psalms 37:20: "But the wicked shall perish...into SMOKE SHALL THEY CONSUME AWAY."

I don't believe those verses speaks of burning up as in they die because of Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. And those worshiping the beast and its image have no rest night and day, even if anyone receives the mark of its name.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Here is an interesting presentation entitled, "The good news about hell", which would seek to provide answers to any questions folks may have regarding hell. Part one of 7 is below and you will find the other parts in the related videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6iBTlbka9g

 

[Timothew]

Here is an interesting presentation entitled, "The good news about hell", which would seek to provide answers to any questions folks may have regarding hell. Part one of 7 is below and you will find the other parts in the related videos.

YouTube - The Good News About Hell by David Asscherick (part 1 of 7)

This first part is 10 minutes, would you sum up his message here for us?

 

[Aimiel]

Where is the smoke coming from?

The Bible says, "smoke of their torment," and if you think about it, wouldn't smoke dissipate, after say, a few days? It ascends for ever and ever. That means they're still being tormented. Hello. McFly!!!

 

[Timothew]

The Bible says, "smoke of their torment," and if you think about it, wouldn't smoke dissipate, after say, a few days? It ascends for ever and ever. That means they're still being tormented. Hello. McFly!!!

How does the bible use this phrase in other places? The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. The smoke of Sodom's destruction goes up forever, and yet, Look at where Sodom was, behold! No Smoke!

 

[Aimiel]

Do you realize that they will all be in the Lake of Fire, forever, and that their destruction will continue, as they are tormented forever? The torment still takes place whether you can see it or not, and even whether you believe it (yet) or not.

 

[Timothew]

Do you realize that they will all be in the Lake of Fire, forever, and that their destruction will continue, as they are tormented forever? The torment still takes place whether you can see it or not, and even whether you believe it (yet) or not.

No, you are incorrect.

The bible says the wages of sin is death, not eternal torment.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Look at it this way. If there is to be eternal torment it means that those who are tormented must be given eternal life as well. I mean really. Think about it. You must be kept alive in order to be tormented. If you are tormented forever then you must be kept alive forever.

Psa 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

The video which i posted explains from a biblical perspective about this. The presenter explains how "forever" is used in the bible and shows by numerous examples in the bible that forever does not always mean throughout the ceaseless ages of eternity but it can mean 'as long as the thing can last'. For instance, God told David that he will be king over Israel forever but we know David is not king over Israel. The fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah is said to be eternal fire but it is not burning today. God will not punish a man for eternity for sins he committed in 4o years of his life. That is not justice at all, and a loving God will never do that.

 

[Aimiel]

No, you are incorrect.

I know you are... but what am I?

The bible says the wages of sin is death, not eternal torment.

Sorry, but the Lake of Fire is the second death, to which the sinner's judgment leads him; whether you accept that fact or not. The torment of all those relegated to that fate will always ascend, as they are continually tormented, forever.

 

[Aimiel]

Look at it this way. If there is to be eternal torment it means that those who are tormented must be given eternal life as well.

Not according to my Bible. The Bible is quite clear, no matter how you try to edit It or twist it's words into imaginary meanings. If you wish to ignore the clear-cut truth, you do so at your own peril.