Concealed carry?

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Good articles here:
https://www.pewpewtactical.com/single-stack-sub-compact-9mms/
https://www.pewpewtactical.com/best-concealed-carry-revolvers/

 

[~Anastasia~]

I have heard that these are well made and reliable:

Good articles here:
https://www.pewpewtactical.com/single-stack-sub-compact-9mms/
https://www.pewpewtactical.com/best-concealed-carry-revolvers/

Thanks Mark.



I've been doing a crash course in reading. Seeing very similar (or identical) recommendations. And looking into related issues I need to address.

I have to say I am partial to revolvers. And I've found a couple - one in particular - I especially like.

But always there are trade-offs to consider. I need some experience firing the one I've got my eye on first off because it's a heavy trigger and a very light gun with a very short barrel. The instructor said he didn't think I'd have a problem with accuracy (based on the short barrel), but I'm honestly concerned about the recoil. It probably wouldn't matter much in actual use, but I am thinking practice won't be fun. And I would insist on practice.

If only mine wasn't so thick with such a long barrel (and bluing that frankly needs a lot of babying). I have found it's really no issue weight-wise to carry it tucked in at the waist. But it's just too hard to conceal at that size.

Decisions, decisions.

 

[~Anastasia~]

And I wonder if it would ruffle anyone's feathers here if I made a comment. I hope I can express this well.

I had the benefit (30 years ago) of being befriended by a "gun guy" who owned a range and gun shop and was a trainer. He was very helpful in giving me tons of time in private instruction when he wasn't busy. And he didn't make it easy on me - time and again he set me up to "fail" just so he could come down on me with both feet (berating me severely I mean) for any tiny mistake. But you know - I appreciate that. I REMEMBER every mistake I made (and he made sure I made just about all of them), and so I also learned NOT to make them. And I feel I could shoot in my sleep, perfectly automatically. That's the way I learned and maybe I'm prejudiced and feel that's how people should be taught. Maybe not with that exact method, but what I'm getting at is - maybe not to that degree, but to some reasonable degree.

I took the required concealed carry class yesterday. The instructor was quite good IMO. He was a trainer in the military and I think for police iirc, and later civilian. He's been doing it for decades. And he covered everything. He took extra range time with people who had never handled a gun before, which is good (I didn't watch the whole time but one lady I happened to notice was at least 30 minutes). The entire class instruction was 3 hours.

Of course they are probably hoping people will practice more (the range gave cards for a free extra hour). And they offered a book that contained all the info that folks could study more I guess.

But what's bothering me is ... I know what I know. It's like in my bones. My husband, who is fairly experienced with guns, but never formally trained - I kind of trust him, but I have had to remind him more than once of things like "don't EVER point a gun at anyone, even in sweeping around the room, etc - and don't just tell me the safety is on or that you know it's unloaded". And he doesn't seem to truly understand how basic and important that is. (At least he's listening now, after the class.) I'm not saying that to insult my husband, not at all. Not at all. My point is, if he's been hunting, he knows some safety stuff, yet it's not ingrained in him fully to ALWAYS ALWAYS know where the muzzle is pointed ...

It's a bit scary to me to think that the average person who never even handled a weapon can be carrying one in the supermarket with no more than 3 hours' lecture (and I saw one woman on her phone part of the time).

I'm 100% for the right to bear arms. And not to make it impossibly difficult for people to do so legally. But I have real concerns about this.

Maybe I shouldn't even post this. I'm afraid I may upset folks on both sides.

Opinions?

 

[ripple the car]

And I wonder if it would ruffle anyone's feathers here if I made a comment. I hope I can express this well.

I had the benefit (30 years ago) of being befriended by a "gun guy" who owned a range and gun shop and was a trainer. He was very helpful in giving me tons of time in private instruction when he wasn't busy. And he didn't make it easy on me - time and again he set me up to "fail" just so he could come down on me with both feet (berating me severely I mean) for any tiny mistake. But you know - I appreciate that. I REMEMBER every mistake I made (and he made sure I made just about all of them), and so I also learned NOT to make them. And I feel I could shoot in my sleep, perfectly automatically. That's the way I learned and maybe I'm prejudiced and feel that's how people should be taught. Maybe not with that exact method, but what I'm getting at is - maybe not to that degree, but to some reasonable degree.

I took the required concealed carry class yesterday. The instructor was quite good IMO. He was a trainer in the military and I think for police iirc, and later civilian. He's been doing it for decades. And he covered everything. He took extra range time with people who had never handled a gun before, which is good (I didn't watch the whole time but one lady I happened to notice was at least 30 minutes). The entire class instruction was 3 hours.

Of course they are probably hoping people will practice more (the range gave cards for a free extra hour). And they offered a book that contained all the info that folks could study more I guess.

But what's bothering me is ... I know what I know. It's like in my bones. My husband, who is fairly experienced with guns, but never formally trained - I kind of trust him, but I have had to remind him more than once of things like "don't EVER point a gun at anyone, even in sweeping around the room, etc - and don't just tell me the safety is on or that you know it's unloaded". And he doesn't seem to truly understand how basic and important that is. (At least he's listening now, after the class.) I'm not saying that to insult my husband, not at all. Not at all. My point is, if he's been hunting, he knows some safety stuff, yet it's not ingrained in him fully to ALWAYS ALWAYS know where the muzzle is pointed ...

It's a bit scary to me to think that the average person who never even handled a weapon can be carrying one in the supermarket with no more than 3 hours' lecture (and I saw one woman on her phone part of the time).

I'm 100% for the right to bear arms. And not to make it impossibly difficult for people to do so legally. But I have real concerns about this.

Maybe I shouldn't even post this. I'm afraid I may upset folks on both sides.

Opinions?

It's ok to upset people sometimes, Ann. You're a smart lady.

Hope everything's ok by you.

 

[RDKirk]

I have to say I am partial to revolvers. And I've found a couple - one in particular - I especially like.

But always there are trade-offs to consider. I need some experience firing the one I've got my eye on first off because it's a heavy trigger and a very light gun with a very short barrel. The instructor said he didn't think I'd have a problem with accuracy (based on the short barrel), but I'm honestly concerned about the recoil. It probably wouldn't matter much in actual use, but I am thinking practice won't be fun. And I would insist on practice.

As I mentioned before (I think), my daughter settled on a steel-framed .357 magnum snubbie revolver with shrouded hammer that she loads with .38 spl.

She went with the steel frame magnum because those extra few ounces make a world of difference in felt recoil, but don't make that much difference in a purse or coat pocket.

She went with a shrouded hammer revolver because it can be fired repeatedly--if need be--right through a purse or coat pocket, and in direct contact with the assailant.

Here is the tactical problem to deal with:

The overwhelming likelihood for a woman is that you will be at arms length or actually in contact with an assailant before you have a chance to draw your weapon from concealment. There are a couple of reasons for that likelihood:

Law and social convention require you to keep your weapon concealed until it's too late to shoot from a reasonable distance. A man can cross 20-30 feet faster than you can draw a weapon from concealment. In fact, test show that even if you're carrying openly and looking directly at the assailant, he can still cross 20 feet faster than you can draw and aim.

Yet, you can't so much as brandish the weapon until he has made himself a clear serious danger to you. So what do assailants do? They disassemble their intentions as they get as they work their way as close as possible to you ("Do you have a light? Do you have the time? Do you have some change?") They won't reveal their intentions until they are within arm's length.

Ideally, you need to be taking serious defensive steps while a suspicious man is 30 feet away. Move to keep your distance, maneuver around a vehicle or some other obstacle. Or give him the command voice "Stay right there, don't come closer to me" while he's still 30 feet away.

Women are taught to be polite, so almost anything you do to protect yourself while the assailant is still far enough away for you to be able to draw your weapon will look and sound like you're the crazy one. And even then, you're still vulnerable to a sudden attack.

So my daughter carries a weapon that can be fired while still concealed. She often leaves or arrives at work before sunrise or after sunset. She can walk with the revolver in her pocket and her hand upon it. Or she can put her hand into her purse as she walks. If worse comes to worse and someone is actually upon her before she can draw, she can just press the muzzle against him and fire.

 

[~Anastasia~]

As I mentioned before (I think), my daughter settled on a steel-framed .357 magnum snubbie revolver with shrouded hammer that she loads with .38 spl.

She went with the steel frame magnum because those extra few ounces make a world of difference in felt recoil, but don't make that much difference in a purse or coat pocket.

She went with a shrouded hammer revolver because it can be fired repeatedly--if need be--right through a purse or coat pocket, and in direct contact with the assailant.

Here is the tactical problem to deal with:

The overwhelming likelihood for a woman is that you will be at arms length or actually in contact with an assailant before you have a chance to draw your weapon from concealment. There are a couple of reasons for that likelihood:

Law and social convention require you to keep your weapon concealed until it's too late to shoot from a reasonable distance. A man can cross 20-30 feet faster than you can draw a weapon from concealment. In fact, test show that even if you're carrying openly and looking directly at the assailant, he can still cross 20 feet faster than you can draw and aim.

Yet, you can't so much as brandish the weapon until he has made himself a clear serious danger to you. So what do assailants do? They disassemble their intentions as they get as they work their way as close as possible to you ("Do you have a light? Do you have the time? Do you have some change?") They won't reveal their intentions until they are within arm's length.

Ideally, you need to be taking serious defensive steps while a suspicious man is 30 feet away. Move to keep your distance, maneuver around a vehicle or some other obstacle. Or give him the command voice "Stay right there, don't come closer to me" while he's still 30 feet away.

Women are taught to be polite, so almost anything you do to protect yourself while the assailant is still far enough away for you to be able to draw your weapon will look and sound like you're the crazy one. And even then, you're still vulnerable to a sudden attack.

So my daughter carries a weapon that can be fired while still concealed. She often leaves or arrives at work before sunrise or after sunset. She can walk with the revolver in her pocket and her hand upon it. Or she can put her hand into her purse as she walks. If worse comes to worse and someone is actually upon her before she can draw, she can just press the muzzle against him and fire.

Thank you. I'm trying to digest a LOT of information quickly (though it will take time to actually get the permit and I'm not rushing my choices).

But having had a day to physically handle some things with that thinking in mind, and considering the real aspects in the real world) ... Lord have mercy, but yes, I'm always nice to folks BUT I do tend to be very aware of the surroundings and situation.

FWIW - I won't be able to carry in one place I am most in danger. I often request an escort there, and at least police are nearby. I'm going to get a 120db alarm that can't be shut off to carry there, I think. I'm not decided on any additional means. I'm just worried whether I will seem like too much s nuisance and endanger my job if I'm constantly asking for an escort, though I haven't gotten that impression.

A lot to think about in the real world.

Thank you.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

And I wonder if it would ruffle anyone's feathers here if I made a comment. I hope I can express this well.

I had the benefit (30 years ago) of being befriended by a "gun guy" who owned a range and gun shop and was a trainer. He was very helpful in giving me tons of time in private instruction when he wasn't busy. And he didn't make it easy on me - time and again he set me up to "fail" just so he could come down on me with both feet (berating me severely I mean) for any tiny mistake. But you know - I appreciate that. I REMEMBER every mistake I made (and he made sure I made just about all of them), and so I also learned NOT to make them. And I feel I could shoot in my sleep, perfectly automatically. That's the way I learned and maybe I'm prejudiced and feel that's how people should be taught. Maybe not with that exact method, but what I'm getting at is - maybe not to that degree, but to some reasonable degree.

I took the required concealed carry class yesterday. The instructor was quite good IMO. He was a trainer in the military and I think for police iirc, and later civilian. He's been doing it for decades. And he covered everything. He took extra range time with people who had never handled a gun before, which is good (I didn't watch the whole time but one lady I happened to notice was at least 30 minutes). The entire class instruction was 3 hours.

Of course they are probably hoping people will practice more (the range gave cards for a free extra hour). And they offered a book that contained all the info that folks could study more I guess.

But what's bothering me is ... I know what I know. It's like in my bones. My husband, who is fairly experienced with guns, but never formally trained - I kind of trust him, but I have had to remind him more than once of things like "don't EVER point a gun at anyone, even in sweeping around the room, etc - and don't just tell me the safety is on or that you know it's unloaded". And he doesn't seem to truly understand how basic and important that is. (At least he's listening now, after the class.) I'm not saying that to insult my husband, not at all. Not at all. My point is, if he's been hunting, he knows some safety stuff, yet it's not ingrained in him fully to ALWAYS ALWAYS know where the muzzle is pointed ...

It's a bit scary to me to think that the average person who never even handled a weapon can be carrying one in the supermarket with no more than 3 hours' lecture (and I saw one woman on her phone part of the time).

I'm 100% for the right to bear arms. And not to make it impossibly difficult for people to do so legally. But I have real concerns about this.

Maybe I shouldn't even post this. I'm afraid I may upset folks on both sides.

Opinions?

I'm glad you did; there are a lot of people who think that they know everything; these are often the most dangerous people at the range! There is no substitute for training and drilling!

 

[~Anastasia~]

I'm glad you did; there are a lot of people who think that they know everything; these are often the most dangerous people at the range! There is no substitute for training and drilling!

I'm thankful my friend took the time and put in the effort to train me. I realize now what it would cost (a fortune really) to hire a trainer and the range and all the anmo if I just wanted that experience. I owe him a great deal. He wanted to make sure I was safe.

But you're right, there's no substitute.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

I can't give proper advice as I'm from the UK and have never even shot a pistol but hickok45 has some well recieved videos on the subject if that's of any use to you

Especially if you get attacked by 2 liter soda bottles a lot!!

 

[Aryeh Jay]

I had the benefit (30 years ago) of being befriended by a "gun guy" who owned a range and gun shop and was a trainer.

Back when you were 4 years old??!!

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Something that was pointed out in the Concealed Carry course I just took (8 hours scheduled but lasted 9 ½) was that the .22 or .25 in your hand is better than the .45 at home.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Something that was pointed out in the Concealed Carry course I just took (8 hours scheduled but lasted 9 ½) was that the .22 or .25 in your hand is better than the .45 at home.

So is a pick handle or a pillowcase full of door knobs...

 

[~Anastasia~]

Back when you were 4 years old??!!

What made you think I'm 34 lol?

No, I was adult. But my grandfather took me out and taught me from the time I was about 7.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

So is a pick handle or a pillowcase full of door knobs...

True, but a pick ax handle and a pillow case full of door knobs is not as concealable as a .22 or .25.

I used to carry a wooden baseball bat for self-defense when I was a teen until the local police it wasn’t baseball season anymore.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

What made you think I'm 34 lol?

No, I was adult. But my grandfather took me out and taught me from the time I was about 7.

You don't act your age!

 

[The Gryphon]

I have a few suggestions as I am the son of a WWII First Sgt. who taught me and was a by the Book teacher with Zero tolerance for mistakes. As well as Army and post Army instructors.

1st. There are quite a few purses designed from the ground up to carry and conceal firearms so you can check them out.

2nd. There are fanny packs for every day carry if that might fit into your wardrobe also designed for gun carry and a few even offer body armor options.

3rd. I'm a semi-auto man as I can shoot them much faster and much more accurately than a revolver. They also can carry more ammo.

4th. While I am a .45 ACP guy because I have been shooting one since I was around 10 years old and I am turning 69 this month one should shoot what one shoots the most accurate. That said there are quite a few small concealable 9MM semi-autos that when loaded with the best most reliable one shot stop HPs are good choices. Glocks, Springfield Armory, Sig Sauer, and others meet the standard. I prefer single action autos or the safe action autos both with a combat action trigger job. I have been shooting custom trigger jobs so long a factory trigger feels atrocious. Check out one shot stopping power charts for your ammo choices then find which one your gun likes the best. Put fixed "Night Sights" on your gun and practice with the actual ammo you will use.

5th. If you do choose a revolver. I would go with a large bore like a short barreled .44 Special or 45 ACP with half-moon clips and have the hammer spur removed so it does not catch. That is just my 2cents.

 

[~Anastasia~]

You don't act your age!

I can't decide if that's a compliment lol!

The reason I mentioned it as being 30-some years ago was to distance myself from my training. I was well-trained. But I feel pretty rusty as I haven't been going to the range for the past several years.

Actually it was kind of fun (though I'll look for a different range - the guy running it was kind of - not very nice). I forgot what fun it was. I think there's a place nearby for skeet shooting too. That was a new sort of challenge last time I went, and also fun.

I'm going to wish for wholesale ammo lol.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I have a few suggestions as I am the son of a WWII First Sgt. who taught me and was a by the Book teacher with Zero tolerance for mistakes. As well as Army and post Army instructors.

1st. There are quite a few purses designed from the ground up to carry and conceal firearms so you can check them out.

2nd. There are fanny packs for every day carry if that might fit into your wardrobe also designed for gun carry and a few even offer body armor options.

3rd. I'm a semi-auto man as I can shoot them much faster and much more accurately than a revolver. They also can carry more ammo.

4th. While I am a .45 ACP guy because I have been shooting one since I was around 10 years old and I am turning 69 this month one should shoot what one shoots the most accurate. That said there are quite a few small concealable 9MM semi-autos that when loaded with the best most reliable one shot stop HPs are good choices. Glocks, Springfield Armory, Sig Sauer, and others meet the standard. I prefer single action autos or the safe action autos both with a combat action trigger job. I have been shooting custom trigger jobs so long a factory trigger feels atrocious. Check out one shot stopping power charts for your ammo choices then find which one your gun likes the best. Put fixed "Night Sights" on your gun and practice with the actual ammo you will use.

5th. If you do choose a revolver. I would go with a large bore like a short barreled .44 Special or 45 ACP with half-moon clips and have the hammer spur removed so it does not catch. That is just my 2cents.

Thanks much for the info.

I used to use a semi-auto before I switched to a revolver. I think I've decided to brush up on semi-auto (I used to be very comfortable with mine - that I don't have anymore). That way I won't automatically limit my choice.

I have some particular physical limitations (that affect the way I dress) such that if I'm going to carry, so far as I've been able to determine so far something like a belly band with a front inside waist is going to work best. That's a slow draw though. And going to require a slim weapon with a fairly short barrel. But again, I'm hoping not to use it. Purse might make more sense but it's going to have to be light in that case. I really have to decide that. I think I've got a couple months to figure it out.

We have a .45 that I like to shoot but like most of the rest it's just too big to practically conceal or carry. I'm almost surely looking at .38 or 9mm.

But after going back and forth I think my first move is to practice more with the semi-autos so I'm not automatically discounting them.

I have really appreciated everyone's input here.

And I've already told folks who were asking that I do NOT want a gun for Christmas lol so I've got a little while to decide.

I actually liked the little .380 semi-auto I used to carry sometimes, but the darn thing jammed a time or two and that's not something I'd want to have happen if it ever did matter (God forbid).

Thanks again.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

What made you think I'm 34 lol?

No, I was adult. But my grandfather took me out and taught me from the time I was about 7.

I thought all women were in their early 30s.


My wife has been 32 for the last 14 years.


She used to buy brown hair dye to cover the little bit of gray.


Now she buys gray hair dye to cover the little bit of brown.


I think I am going to be in trouble now.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I thought all women were in their early 30s.


My wife has been 32 for the last 14 years.


She used to buy brown hair dye to cover the little bit of gray.


Now she buys gray hair dye to cover the little bit of brown.


I think I am going to be in trouble now.

Sometimes we joke and say we are "34 with ten year's experience" at 44. And I was also told a lady doesn't reveal her age (notice I haven't been specific lol).

But as for me personally, I have no such concerns for that particular vanity. I've learned a LOT since my early 30s. Besides, it would be rather difficult to claim my adult daughter if I was in my early 30s.

I usually get people assuming I'm younger than I am. But it's been several years since I've been carded, and even that I thought was strange at the time.

At least I haven't been offered senior discounts on sight anywhere, though I'm surprised to find I qualify according to some.

The mails are much less kind. I got my first advertisement trying to sell me a funeral about a week ago. I was not amused.