Col 2:16 is about not judging others

[BABerean2]

Because I love paying attention to the actual Bible details in the text we are talking about - rather than simply ignoring the chapter.

"let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,"
hint - this is not condemning the eating of food -- or drinking - or keeping the annual Sabbaths.

Did the word "annual" come out of thin air or was it added to the SDA Bible to make your doctrine work?

Colossians 2:16
(CJB)　 So don't let anyone pass judgment on you in connection with eating and drinking, or in regard to a Jewish festival or Rosh-Hodesh or Shabbat.

(ESV)　 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.

(Geneva)　 Let no man therefore condemne you in meate and drinke, or in respect of an holy day, or of the newe moone, or of the Sabbath dayes,

(GW)　 Therefore, let no one judge you because of what you eat or drink or about the observance of annual holy days, New Moon Festivals, or weekly worship days.

(LITV-TSP)　 Then do not let anyone judge you in eating, or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or the new moon, or of sabbaths,

(KJV)　 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:


(KJV+)　 Let noG3361 manG5100 thereforeG3767 judgeG2919 youG5209 inG1722 meat,G1035 orG2228 inG1722 drink,G4213 orG2228 inG1722 respectG3313 of an holyday,G1859 orG2228 of the new moon,G3561 orG2228 of the sabbathG4521 days:


(NKJV)　 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or Sabbaths,

(YLT)　 Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths,

Are you going to try and ignore Hebrews 12:18-24, or has it been taken out of your version of the Bible?

Bring it out here and let us see what has been added or removed.

.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Did the word "annual" come out of thin air or was it added to the SDA Bible to make your doctrine work?

Colossians 2:16
(CJB)　 So don't let anyone pass judgment on you in connection with eating and drinking, or in regard to a Jewish festival or Rosh-Hodesh or Shabbat.

(ESV)　 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.

(Geneva)　 Let no man therefore condemne you in meate and drinke, or in respect of an holy day, or of the newe moone, or of the Sabbath dayes,

(GW)　 Therefore, let no one judge you because of what you eat or drink or about the observance of annual holy days, New Moon Festivals, or weekly worship days.

(LITV-TSP)　 Then do not let anyone judge you in eating, or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or the new moon, or of sabbaths,

(KJV)　 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:


(KJV+)　 Let noG3361 manG5100 thereforeG3767 judgeG2919 youG5209 inG1722 meat,G1035 orG2228 inG1722 drink,G4213 orG2228 inG1722 respectG3313 of an holyday,G1859 orG2228 of the new moon,G3561 orG2228 of the sabbathG4521 days:


(NKJV)　 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or Sabbaths,

(YLT)　 Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths,

Are you going to try and ignore Hebrews 12:18-24, or has it been taken out of your version of the Bible?

Bring it out here and let us see what has been added or removed.

.

for the second time, let us see what has been added or removed.

Colossians 2 has …

no word, <Jewish>;

has no word, <festival / feast> Nominative;

has no word, <Shabbat / Sabbath> Singular Dative;

has no word, <day / days / dayes>;

has no phrase, <worship days / >

has no word, <Rosh-Hodesh>;

has no word, <food / meate> Noun Nominative or Dative;

has no word, <eat> Indicative Verb;

has no word, <drink / drinke> Noun Nominative or Dative;

has no word, <drink> Indicative Verb;

has no word, <moon(e)> of the earth;

has no word, <new(e) moon(e)> every 28 days;

has no word, <holy> Adjective Nominative or Dative;

has no word, <questions>

has no phrase, <<questions of food and drink>>;

has no word, <about>;

has no word, <observance>;

has no word, <annual>;

has no word, <weekly> Adjectival;

has no phrase, <<with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath>> / <<in respect of an holy day, or of the newe moone, or of the Sabbath dayes>> / <<regarding a festival or a new moon or Sabbaths>> Relative Dative;

Now, remove all these things <added> and what is left, is what you have <removed> -- obliterated with your <added> things.

 

[BABerean2]

for the second time, let us see what has been added or removed.

Colossians 2 has …

no word, <Jewish>;

has no word, <festival / feast> Nominative;

has no word, <Shabbat / Sabbath> Singular Dative;

has no word, <day / days / dayes>;

has no phrase, <worship days / >

has no word, <Rosh-Hodesh>;

has no word, <food / meate> Noun Nominative or Dative;

has no word, <eat> Indicative Verb;

has no word, <drink / drinke> Noun Nominative or Dative;

has no word, <drink> Indicative Verb;

has no word, <moon(e)> of the earth;

has no word, <new(e) moon(e)> every 28 days;

has no word, <holy> Adjective Nominative or Dative;

has no word, <questions>

has no phrase, <<questions of food and drink>>;

has no word, <about>;

has no word, <observance>;

has no word, <annual>;

has no word, <weekly> Adjectival;

has no phrase, <<with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath>> / <<in respect of an holy day, or of the newe moone, or of the Sabbath dayes>> / <<regarding a festival or a new moon or Sabbaths>> Relative Dative;

So you make your SDA doctrine work by making the text mean what ever you want it to mean, since there is no English in the original Greek.

And you do this by ignoring any translation of Greek into English.

You do not need a Strong's Concordance.

So much for Sola Scriptura.


(Col 2:16)　 Let noG3361 manG5100 thereforeG3767 judgeG2919 youG5209 inG1722 meat,G1035 orG2228 inG1722 drink,G4213 orG2228 inG1722 respectG3313 of an holyday,G1859 orG2228 of the new moon,G3561 orG2228 of the sabbathG4521 days:

.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

So you make your SDA doctrine work by making the text mean what ever you want it to mean, since there is no English in the original Greek.

And you do this by ignoring any translation of Greek into English.

You do not need a Strong's Concordance.

So much for Sola Scriptura.


(Col 2:16)　 Let noG3361 manG5100 thereforeG3767 judgeG2919 youG5209 inG1722 meat,G1035 orG2228 inG1722 drink,G4213 orG2228 inG1722 respectG3313 of an holyday,G1859 orG2228 of the new moon,G3561 orG2228 of the sabbathG4521 days:

Mine -- our's, is NO <<SDA doctrine>>;
and 'mine', is NO <<SDA work by making the text mean what ever _you_ want it to mean>>;
like this nonsensical and sick remark by you, <<since there is no English in the original Greek.>>

Does my above point for point rebuttal of your nonsense, look like <<ignoring any translation>> in English?
It proves, on the contrary, _your_ so called <<English translations>> are anything but, the Greek or what the Greek says!

And I surely do not <<need a Strong's Concordance>>, especially not the modern electronic junk it declined into. Agnoeite?!

Sola Scriptura!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

And of course Your argument is that we are subject to the Sabbath and feast laws and I say we are not. So, your statement in post #180 is wrong. The true meaning of Col2:16 is do not allow anyone to judge me because I do not observe Torah. Throughout Paul's writings it becomes evident what I believe is correct. Read Gal chapter 3. It proves what i believe about Col 2

Mmmm, the Big I-I in 's-p-I-r-I-t'. No I-I and sprt... pfft... GONE'S the mighty I.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

It is not that I am trying to disregard the will of our Lord, it is because He has set mankind free of ritual laws that have absolutely no bearing on our salvation. Jesus has taken the law with all of the demands away and has given us the Law of love as our goal in life. If we listen to the Holy spirit and live a life serving mankind we will have accomplished His will for us.

<<<It is not that I am trying to disregard the will of our Lord, it is because He has set mankind free of ritual laws that have absolutely no bearing on our salvation.>>>


I believe the SAME.

But no! Because I believe the SCRIPTURES, and its Truth, Jesus Christ “the LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS” by the grace of God without works of the Law— even without such works of the LAW as to <<listen to the Holy spirit and live a life serving mankind>>, I am judged, condemned, and falsely accused that I <<disregard the will of our Lord because…>> because AS FALSELY ARROGATED, <<…He has set mankind free of ritual laws>>.


God NEVER, AS FALSELY ARROGATED, in the Old or New Testaments, commanded <<ritual laws that have absolutely no bearing on our salvation>>. So I am judged, condemned, and falsely accused because I believe the reality and truthfulness of Colossians 2 its text, that therein, is found and founded the New Testament “Body of Christ’s Own, eating and drinking of Sabbaths’ Feast of CHRIST the Substance”. As Paul wrote, “THEREFORE” am I judged, condemned and falsely accused, that I <<disregard the will of our Lord because…>> AS ARROGATED FALSELY, <<He has set mankind free of ritual laws>>!


Jesus, commanded the New and Eternal Covenant <<ritual laws>>. Jesus exactly for its <<bearing on our salvation>> commanded his New Covenant Church, <<ritual laws>>— just like He commanded his New Covenant Church to <<listen to the Holy spirit and live a life serving mankind>>.

And Christ commanded his Church, “TO WORSHIP”! But, to “Begin with the HOUSEHOLD OF GOD” the Church of “True Believers” who, perhaps only “two or three” and “neither here nor there”, but “in Spirit and in Truth”, “IN YOUR HOMES”, HAD TO, “WORSHIP!”


Jesus, commanding them, “taught” his disciples to “Go and teach!” Jesus “commanded”, “His Own”, “His Inheritance in the saints”, to “Go into all the world … among all nations and TEACH them, ritually or otherwise, spiritually and obediently and faithfully to, “OBSERVE!” “Teach them”, that is, “COMMAND them to observe ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I COMMANDED”. Jesus included “Sabbaths’ Feast of Christ, the Substance”; it is seen, it is being beheld, was the obedience, the faith, and the fruit of the spirit of Jesus’ Great Commission.


So yes, <<Jesus has taken the [OLD] law with all of the [OLD] demands away and has given us the [NEW] Law of love as our goal in life>>—, “according to”, HIS, spoken, commanded, word— Jesus’ commanded word “ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES”! Not according to human sentiment, the capricious dictates of the mind of man; but according to Jesus’ Word.

“Then He—the Risen Jesus—SAID unto them (his Church), O fools, and slow of heart to BELIEVE, ALL, that the PROPHETS, have SPOKEN.” The words of the prophets are the words Jesus, spoke. “And HE—the Risen Jesus—beginning at Moses and all the prophets, expounded to them (his New Testament Church) the things concerning HIMSELF. HE—the Risen Jesus—TALKED with us (His Church) IN THE WAY AS HE OPENED UP TO US THE SCRIPTURES.” We listen to and obey Christ, “observing” and “teaching” whatever <<ritual laws>> his words, his speaking, his commanding from and according to the Scripture.

Note, that we do not differentiate between Jesus’ speaking in the Old Testament and New Testament Scriptures; it’s “ALL” one, coming from his mouth and authority. ‘If we listen to the Holy Spirit’, we listen to JESUS, and hear HIM, SPEAKING THE SCRIPTURES!

That is what I read in the Great Commission of Jesus to us, his New Testament Church. I do not read commissioned there <<live a life serving mankind>>, except as understood in and through the Scriptures as understood in and through the Word of Jesus the Word in and of, the Scriptures. And HE, not us, will accomplished His will for us; not us, ourselves.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Sticks and stones...... Just where have I lied? If scripture is a lie then yes I have lied. What is your excuse?

Where do you not contradict Jesus' words in the Scriptures speaking from the Scriptures, "ALL the Scriptures and the prophets"? Christ has NOT set mankind free of ritual laws that IN HIS WORD TO HIS CHURCH, has always had absolutely spiritual bearing on our salvation. And Jesus NEVER has taken the law with all of the demands away and not given us the Law of love as our goal and guide--our Law, Christ in the Scriptures, all the Scriptures in our hearts.

There actually, is nothing which you say that not in one way or another, is an attempt to get away from the commanding power which is of the essence in every word from the mouth of Jesus, the Christ of God.

Considering how shallow the heart of man is except in its sinful depths, thinking that God desires us to follow after the spirit and prompting of his heart, must be vain hope and false assurance. Mistaking our spirit or our heart or thoughts, for the thoughts and Holy Spirit of God, cannot be but a lie we live to and under, hallucinating that it is <<the Holy spirit>>, invariably, 'in us'.
The lakh is, Does the 'spirit' speak from the Scriptures, the Word of God, God-in-Christ? Yes? or, No?

 

[BobRyan]

So you make your SDA doctrine work by making the text mean what ever you want it to mean, since there is no English in the original Greek.

G.E. 's signature does not say he is SDA -- why are you calling him SDA?

Do you also claim that all pro-sunday scholars that admit that ALL TEN of the TEN Commandments are still binding on all the saints... that they too are all SDA???

 

[BobRyan]

Did the word "annual" come out of thin air or was it added to the SDA Bible to make your doctrine work?
.

So then you have or have-not read Lev 23 where the yearly shadow Sabbath's (with their liturgy based on sacrifice and offerings pointing to Christ )- are defined??

or is it your argument that Lev 23 only exists in some mythical "SDA Bible" you invented?

 

[BABerean2]

So then you have or have-not read Lev 23 where the yearly shadow Sabbath's (with their liturgy based on sacrifice and offerings pointing to Christ )- are defined??

or is it your argument that Lev 23 only exists in some mythical "SDA Bible" you invented?

I have read where Noah was commanded to build a boat.

I have read where Abraham was commanded to circumcise all his male offspring.

I have read where the children of Israel were forbidden from eating shellfish.

I have read where the children of Israel were commanded to offer animals as a sacrifice.


I have also read Hebrews 12:18-24, which makes it clear we are under the New Covenant of Mount Zion.
That is what I find in my Bible.

As for the "pro-Sunday scholars" you like to quote, they are men made of flesh, just like me.
They are victims of the battle between the New Covenant and "the ministry of death written on stones" found in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.
They have confused the New Covenant with the Sinai covenant of "bondage" found in Galatians 4:24-31.
Like you, they are clinging to Mount Sinai, instead of embracing Mount Zion.


.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

the battle between the New Covenant and "the ministry of death written on stones" found in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.
They have confused the New Covenant with the Sinai covenant of "bondage" found in Galatians 4:24-31.

Here's your hitch.

There is no <<battle between the New Covenant and "the ministry of death written on stones" found in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.>> They work together in absolute harmony. "The Letter killeth; but the Spirit giveth life."
Only God can forgive sin; only God can pronounce death penalty and execute death sentence. God is the only Executive Officer of His Law.
The Law cannot be blamed for man's "bondage" under sin and death; the Law is the Lawgiver's detective yardstick and plumb line.
Until grace came and Jesus Christ has become for the faithful their Measure and Stature of the Perfect Man, they had to look at themselves in the mirror of the Law in which they could only see themselves and their shortcomings, but had no water no nothing to clean themselves with.
In the glory of the face and character of Jesus, the sinner now sees himself and his sins and damnation better, but also can look, and live! Together with a new and brighter mirror -- the Perfect Man, Jesus, the sinner now received also the Cure for his sins. In fact the New Covenant, Christ, is the sinners mirror as well as his bath and water and soap and comb.

Paul recognises the glory of the ministration of the Law, he does not deny it. But in comparison -- not in contradiction – Paul recognises the glory of God in the face of Jesus, so that the glory of the Law is like no glory against the glory of the Ministration of grace and forgiveness through Jesus Christ our Lord, now not only our New and only Law, but our only, Saviour.

 

[BABerean2]

Paul recognises the glory of the ministration of the Law, he does not deny it. But in comparison -- not in contradiction -- the glory of the Law is like no glory against the glory of the Ministration of grace and forgiveness through Jesus Christ our Lord, now not only our New and only Law, but our only, Saviour.

If the above were true, Paul would not have compelled the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage".

Gal 4:21　 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?　
Gal 4:22　 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman.　
Gal 4:23　 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise,　
Gal 4:24　 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar—　
Gal 4:25　 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children—　
Gal 4:26　 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.　
Gal 4:27　 For it is written: "REJOICE, O BARREN, YOU WHO DO NOT BEAR! BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR! FOR THE DESOLATE HAS MANY MORE CHILDREN THAN SHE WHO HAS A HUSBAND."　
Gal 4:28　 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.　
Gal 4:29　 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.　
Gal 4:30　 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREEWOMAN."　
Gal 4:31　 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.　

.

 

[BobRyan]

This thread is on Colossians 2...There is another thread for Galatians 3 and 4 that I will link to - for example #117


Colossians 2 makes two key points.

1. It is against false teachers "making stuff up" vs the real - pure doctrine of the Gospel.
2. It is promoting the Matthew 7 pre-cross principle “Judge not that you be not judged”


Notice that the issue of “Making stuff up” was a problem addressed before the cross as well --

Mark 2:23-28 - making stuff up about 7th day Sabbath keeping
Mark 7:6-13 - making stuff up that contradicts the Commandments of God.


===== details on “not making stuff up” in col 2

As for Col 2 -- condemning the traditions and doctrines of man - and upholding the Word of God --

Col 2 is opposed to making up a rule and judging others of being guilty of sin because they differ with you, even if that invented rule is related to a Bible command.

But Col 2 is not an attempt by Paul to delete the scriptures. Rather Paul condemns the idea of making stuff up that is not in scripture at all - where the only source/authority is "man".

Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflatedwithout cause by his fleshly mind,
19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.


Col 2
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)

Notice how irrefutably that post makes the point about not making stuff up...

Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflatedwithout cause by his fleshly mind,
19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.


Col 2
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.

 

[BobRyan]

A great example of Col 2 affirming Matt 7 pre-cross command to not judge others while also not condemning 'eating and drinking'

In Rev 12 we see the work of the "Accuser of the brethren".

In Matt 7 (pre-cross -- and law in full effect) Christ condemns judging others.

In Col 2:16 we have this -
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

(In Lev 23 - the shaddow Sabbaths are the annual gatherings based in animal-sacrifice liturgy pointing to the first coming of Christ)

An example of NOT condemning eating OR drinking or remembering God's Ten-Commandment creation-Sabbath day to keep it holy. Rather Col 2 condemns the "commandments of men" - (as is so carefully avoided in the quotes we often see from Col 2)

 

[Bob S]

You have created a great way to derail Col 2:16. Just go to other verses and start commenting on them instead of staying on topic of Col 2:16. It is not made up stuff when Paul writes that feasts, new moons and Sabbath are shadows. If Paul is correct then trying to keep a shadow is in vein. can we substitute made up stuff for shadows? Lets see how that sounds in full context.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are made up stuff?

Oh yes that fits your agenda perfectly, not.

 

[BABerean2]

Notice how irrefutably that post makes the point about not making stuff up...

2Co 3:6　 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
　
2Co 3:7　 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,　 (Some of us keep hanging onto the "ministry of death", written on stones. If you do not know what was written on stones refer to Exodus 34:28.)

2Co 3:8　 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?　



Gal 4:24　 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar—　(What is the covenant of bondage in this verse?)

Gal 4:25　 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children—　


Gal 4:30　 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREEWOMAN."　(Some of us refuse to cast out the bondwoman.)

Gal 4:31　 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.　

The inheritance does not come through the bondwoman.

If you cannot figure out who the bondwoman is, refer to Galatians 4:24-25 above.

Was Paul "making stuff up" ?

 

[bugkiller]

This thread is on Colossians 2...There is another thread for Galatians 3 and 4 that I will link to - for example #117


Colossians 2 makes two key points.

1. It is against false teachers "making stuff up" vs the real - pure doctrine of the Gospel.

So why are you doing that?

2. It is promoting the Matthew 7 pre-cross principle “Judge not that you be not judged”


Notice that the issue of “Making stuff up” was a problem addressed before the cross as well --

Mark 2:23-28 - making stuff up about 7th day Sabbath keeping
Mark 7:6-13 - making stuff up that contradicts the Commandments of God.

What is your point?

===== details on “not making stuff up” in col 2



Notice how irrefutably that post makes the point about not making stuff up...

Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflatedwithout cause by his fleshly mind,
19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.

You do not have enough knowledge to defraud me.

Col 2
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.

Who is following the teachings of another here?

bugkiller

 

[Bob S]

Colossians 2
The Book of Colossians
Chapter 2Verses:
2:16 Therefore - Seeing these things are so. Let none judge you - That is, regard none who judge you. In meat or drink - For not observing the ceremonial law in these or any other particulars. Or in respect of a yearly feast, the new moon, or the weekly Jewish sabbaths.
2:17 Which are but a lifeless shadow; but the body, the substance, is of Christ.
John Wesley

I must hold John Wesley in one hand and Pastor Bob in the other and determine who holds the most weight in interpreting scripture. In light of verse 17 I must make my decision, a lifeless shadow indicates to me that all those things have no substance in my life. Unless someone has been so indoctrinated with believing that the Sabbath, of only Israel, is binding on all humanity these paraphrased verses only bring to light the real meaning of Paul's intent and that is the old covenant is not relevant to Christians duty to God. The new covenant is not the old one warmed over as some try to make us believe. They are rendering this falsehood to propagate their preconceived ideas that the rituals of Judaism are relevant to Christianity. Jesus is enough.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

2Co 3:8　 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?　

What is "the ministry of the Spirit"?

It is not to witness of man; but "of Me" - Jesus Christ.

In fact, Jesus whose the Spirit of God is, said, The Holy Spirit's ministry, is that He shall "convince of sin". Instead we see a 'spirit' - 'the spirit in me', convincing me, and trying to convince everybody else, of my sinlessness!

The ministry of the Spirit is not more glorious in us than the ministry of the letter has been in us; in us, it is pathetic because of us -- you and me included.

The ministry of the Spirit is glorious only because the Spirit is the Spirit of Christ and ministers unto Him.

Paul said "Christ in you" makes all the difference.
"We are Christ's and Christ is God's." Therefore, "If Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is Life because of (Christ our) Righteousness."
"If a man has not the Spirit-of-CHRIST, he is none of his (Christ's); and if the Spirit of Him (God) who raised up CHRIST from the dead dwell in you, He (God) who raised up CHRIST from the dead, shall also quicken your mortal bodies by the Spirit (of Christ) that dwell in you." -- "CHRIST that dwell in you"!
The vital Link is Christ. If not Christ, no Holy Spirit, not even God. And if Christ is not in us and we in Him, no Holy Spirit is in us or we in Him. If we are not Christ's, we are none of God's, and God and the Holy Spirit, none of ours.

 

[Bob S]

What is "the ministry of the Spirit"?

If you will just read 2Cor3:7-11 Paul will give you that information. Paul wrote that the ministry of the 10 commandments WAS transitory and that would have left Israel without their guide, the 10 Commandments Jesus gave man a special gift of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit before He left and went back to His Father. He has and is giving that gift to those who believe in Him Jn 14. The Holy Spirit is ministering in each one of those who have chosen to be part of true Christianity, not the defunct 10 commandments that were only a partial list of ways to treat God, ourselves and our fellow man. That does not mean that the 10 were not perfect. They were perfect for a fledgling nation, but the fact is they would not even live up to those ten let alone all the other ways we disregard our duty and love to all mankind, ourselves and God. Only through the power of the Holy Spirit and the Grace that Jesus gives so freely can Christians live our lives in accordance with the requirements of the Father.