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Featured Church of Sweden to formally stop referring to God as "he"

Discussion in 'Current News & Events' started by badatusernames, Nov 24, 2017.

  1. The Times

    The Times Well-Known Member

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    Post #280 brings to attention the dangers of this mystic Gnostic religion emerging with Babylon rising, because this is the mystery Antichristos religion, where neither Jesus, his disciples or the prophets taught.

    In fact, throughout the book of Chronicles many kings of Israel were condemned by God who raised up an Asherah pole. An Asherah pole is a sacred tree or pole that stood near Canaanite religious locations to honor the Ugaritic mother-goddess Asherah, consort of El.

    Throughout the book of Chronicles and also the book of Kings we have God condemning the kings who would raise these Asherah poles in worship to the mother goddess. In many ways God declares righteous the King who ripped down these poles and declared wicked and evil those many kings of Israel who promoted and raised them up.

    1Manasseh was twelve years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem fifty-five years. 2He did evil in the eyes of the Lord, following the detestable practices of the nations the Lord had driven out before the Israelites. 3He rebuilt the high places his father Hezekiah had demolished; he also erected altars to the Baals and made Asherah poles. He bowed down to all the starry hosts and worshiped them. (2 Chronicles 33:1-3)

    Hezekiah son of Ahaz king of Judah began to reign. 2He was twenty-five years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem twenty-nine years. His mother’s name was Abijah daughter of Zechariah. 3He did what was right in the eyes of the Lord, just as his father David had done. 4He removed the high places, smashed the sacred stones and cut down the Asherah poles. He broke into pieces the bronze snake Moses had made, for up to that time the Israelites had been burning incense to it. (2 Kings 18:1-4)

    Obviously God has a real problem with the concept of mother goddess, so please stop depicting the Holy God as mother.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
  2. The Times

    The Times Well-Known Member

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    Notice also that this Temple of THEOLA practice was inherited from the many nations that the Lord had overthrown. So the concept of God being depicted as mother has its roots in all the false antithesis religions of the nations, where such practice by God is considered detestable. So when Babylon is being witnessed rising in our time, we see this teaching of mother god emerging from all the antithesis interfaith ecumenical religions of the world.

    2He did evil in the eyes of the Lord, following the detestable practices of the nations the Lord had driven out before the Israelites. (2 Chronicles 33:1-2)

    Obviously God has a real problem with the nations depicting the devine as a mother. Of course the Israelites, just like certain denomination thought and think that they are worshipping the same one unseen God, through the vantage point of mother goddess. The evidence highlights this fact as follows.....

    16“So do not pray for this people nor offer any plea or petition for them; do not plead with me, for I will not listen to you. 17Do you not see what they are doing in the towns of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? 18The children gather wood, the fathers light the fire, and the women knead the dough and make cakes to offer to the Queen of Heaven. They pour out drink offerings to other gods to arouse my anger. 19But am I the one they are provoking? declares the Lord. Are they not rather harming themselves, to their own shame?

    20“ ‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: My anger and my wrath will be poured out on this place—on man and beast, on the trees of the field and on the crops of your land—and it will burn and not be quenched.

    21“ ‘This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Go ahead, add your burnt offerings to your other sacrifices and eat the meat yourselves! 22For when I brought your ancestors out of Egypt and spoke to them, I did not just give them commands about burnt offerings and sacrifices, 23but I gave them this command: Obey me, and I will be your God and you will be my people. Walk in obedience to all I command you, that it may go well with you. 24But they did not listen or pay attention; instead, they followed the stubborn inclinations of their evil hearts. They went backward and not forward. 25From the time your ancestors left Egypt until now, day after day, again and again I sent you my servants the prophets. 26But they did not listen to me or pay attention. They were stiff-necked and did more evil than their ancestors.’

    15Then all the men who knew that their wives were burning incense to other gods, along with all the women who were present—a large assembly—and all the people living in Lower and Upper Egypt, said to Jeremiah, 16“We will not listen to the message you have spoken to us in the name of the Lord! 17We will certainly do everything we said we would: We will burn incense to the Queen of Heaven and will pour out drink offerings to her just as we and our ancestors, our kings and our officials did in the towns of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem. At that time we had plenty of food and were well off and suffered no harm. 18But ever since we stopped burning incense to the Queen of Heaven and pouring out drink offerings to her, we have had nothing and have been perishing by sword and famine.”

    19The women added, “When we burned incense to the Queen of Heaven and poured out drink offerings to her, did not our husbands know that we were making cakes impressed with her image and pouring out drink offerings to her?”

    Obviously these Israelites like their stubborn kings thought that they were worshipping God by depicting him as the Queen of Heaven, the mother goddess. God disassociates himself from such form of worship, by declaring it as the worship of other gods.

    How wrong they were!
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
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  3. discipler7

    discipler7 Active Member

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    My apologies. Yes, the Hebrew word for Spirit is a feminine noun.
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _

    God's Spirit is His Helper, just like Adam's wife was his helper.

    Almighty God the Father in heaven sent His Spirit/Helper to earth who was like a good, gentle and nurturing mother to His people.

    Almighty God the Father in heaven sent His Son/Jesus to earth who was like a good and protective brother and male friend to His people.

    In short, Almighty God the Father in heaven and His Son/Jesus on earth are masculine or fatherly and brotherly, while His Spirit on earth is feminine or motherly and sisterly.
    .

    2THESS.2: =
    5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.

    8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

    9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
  4. discipler7

    discipler7 Active Member

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    The church released an example of how the church will adapt its language.

    “God, Holy Trinity, Father and Mother, Son – Sister and Brother, and Spirit – Lifeguard and Inspirator, lead us to your depths of wealth, wisdom and knowledge,” the example read.
     
  5. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    This doesn't make sense. I was not comparing Jesus to the current world view of western society - whatever that means, and we don't need to know his mind.
    Scripture says that he ate and drank with tax collectors and sinners; I provided the verses.

    In my book, that means that he associated with them. Your view seems to be that anyone who associates with sinners adopts their lifestyle and becomes a sinner; I disagree.

    So Jesus only ate and drank with those sinners who he knew were going to repent?
    Are you saying that if God sees a sinner and knows that they will never repent, he doesn't bother with them? Where's your Scripture for that?

    Maybe he did, but Scripture does not always record that.
    People criticised Jesus for eating with tax collectors and sinners - yet nowhere do we read, "Jesus answered, 'don't worry guys, I'm only doing it so they will repent'."

    So, what if she HAD sinned? What if she'd gone back to her former ways, even if only briefly? Are you saying that God wouldn't have bothered with her in the first place, or that he would have withdrawn his love after she sinned?

    Well sorry, but I think you've come to the wrong conclusion.
    Jesus said to the crowd that the person who had never sinned could throw the first stone at the woman. The crowd put down their stones and walked away - at least they knew that they couldn't claim to be perfect.
    Jesus then said to the woman, "has no one condemned you?" "no-one" she replied. Then Jesus said "nor do I condemn you".
    Jesus was perfect and was the only one there who could have thrown a stone at her; but he didn't. He would not condemn - blame, judge - her for her sin of adultery. Yes, he said "sin no more", but he did not forgive her because he knew that she would sin no more.

    It doesn't say he died for ONCE sinners.
    Jesus died for sinners. Someone may live a sinful life for many years; Jesus died for them. When they become Christians they will still sin - we all do - and may occasionally even fall away or turn back to their old lifestyle; Jesus still died for them.

    Otherwise, it sounds like you would say to someone; God loves you and Jesus died for you because he knew you would repent and follow him. If at any point you fall away, sin and stop following him; that's it.
    I know you haven't used these words, but your message appears to be that God will only associate with, love and forgive those who he knows will listen and repent.
    In other words, his love is dependant upon our repentance. No. God loves because he IS love.

    If a Christian says "Jesus died for me and will always forgive me, so I can live as I like", that is obviously wrong. That is what the Corinthians believed - Christ had set them free so they could do what they pleased; and Paul had to correct them.
    Personally I don't believe that someone who has experienced the mercy, love and forgiveness of God will WANT to sin, continue with their previous lifestyle and hurt him. Scripture says "we love because God first loved us". God loves us, we respond to that love, are able to love him and show love to others. If you love someone, you don't deliberately plan to hurt and disobey them.

    But we all still sin, and God still loves and forgives us when we do. Even if someone repented from lustful thoughts, then gave into them, or worse still, acted on them, God would forgive again. There are Christians who can testify to that fact.

    Like I said, it depends what you mean by "associate with".
    But if you mean that we cannot befriend, or help, someone who is a homosexual, a thief or whatever; I disagree.
    I would not socialise with someone who I knew abused children, but I wouldn't refuse to let them use a food bank and let them have food. In the voluntary work that I do, if I said, "I will only help people who don't steal, get drunk, use drugs, hurt people, who aren't homosexuals and who have never been to prison"; first of all, I'd be asked to leave, and secondly, I would not help very many people.

    I may answer the rest of your post later.
    Basically, what I am saying is that God loves everyone, Christ died for sinners - which is everyone - and so it is not wrong to associate with them.
    I am saying that I would not refuse to talk to, help, listen to or provide the basics in life to someone who I knew was an alcoholic, or homosexual. Personally, I would not say "if you repent, you can have this help", or "if you repent, I will talk to you and befriend you." That makes my friendship and offers of help dependant upon their repentance. That is not what God does. If God loved and forgave only those who repented, that would mean that salvation depended on our good works, and that we could earn it. If God loved and forgave only those who loved him and repented, he would be doing what Jesus told us NOT to do. Jesus said, "be perfect as God is perfect".

    But if you are saying that when someone becomes a Christian they should not wilfully return to the lifestyle from which they were saved; I agree. If you are loved and forgiven by God, you show, and I think would want to show, your love for him by breaking away from your former lifestyle.
    In some circumstances, God may ask you to continue to befriend these people - for example, people who have been in prison and become Christians have done an enormous amount of work with offenders and ex offenders.
    But I think a person should wait for God's guidance. A new Christian who said "I've been saved from alcoholism, so I'm going to hang out with alcoholics so I can witness to them", without a clear leading from God, may just get sucked back into that lifestyle. That would be foolish but God would still forgive them if they repented again.
     
  6. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    No of course not.

    Nonsense.

    I have said that we refer to God as "he" because he is personal. We call God our father because Jesus did and taught us that we can have that relationship with him. I call God Father and am happy to do so.
    BUT, God is Spirit, John 4:24. He is also a trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and the word used in the NT for Holy Spirit is feminine.
    God also has some qualities we would say are female qualities. He gave us life; James says he gave us birth, James 1:18. He nurtures us, he is compared to a mother caring for her children. This is Scriptural; so it is not even wrong, far less heretical and akin to unbelief, to say otherwise.

    I have used prayers that address God as father and mother. It is not how I normally pray, but I would not condemn as a heretic anyone who does so.
     
  7. Vicomte13

    Vicomte13 Well-Known Member

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    Of course we don't do that with our veneration of the Virgin Mary, the very highest of all the saints, or in the veneration of her through sacred painting and the kissing of the painting. This is simply the reverence due to the Bearer of God, and her sinless life. Mary shows the degree of perfection that human beings can achieve.

    So obviously when you speak of the Queen of Heaven, you are not referring to the calumnies made against Mary, Mother of God, and our veneration of her, by people who do not understand what they are seeing, right?
     
  8. Vicomte13

    Vicomte13 Well-Known Member

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    God's spirit is his breath. Literally. It emanates from him, surrounds him. Indeed, in Jesus' case, as a man, God's spirit was the literal breath that kept him alive (as breath keeps us all alive, through the transport agency of blood - which is why the blood is the life). When he died, Jesus said "Father, into your hands I commend my breath", and he expired (ex-spired: the spirit, which is breath, left him).

    Breath and spirit are the same thing - one word. Not two concepts that use one word. One concept that uses one word, that WE have divided into multiple concepts because we draw back from the PHYSICAL aspects of the presence of God. That our breath is LITERALLY the gift of God that animates us, and whose departure kills us, is true. But it's foreign to the way we think.

    So, now, consider a man - Jesus, yes, but also any other man. We are surrounded by a nimbus of our own breath. In an immediate sense it comes from us (though we did not create it, and cannot choose to hold onto it when the time comes for it to depart). Our life is our breath. When the breath stops reaching the brain, this is defined as death - the brain stops working. When a cell ceases to breathe, it is dead.

    This is how the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father. We breathe, but the Father is the ORIGIN of breath, which is spirit. The universe and God are altogether more concrete than we abstract Western thinkers understand.

    We want to say that the one thing is SYMBOLIC of the other thing, that breath is the physical symbol of an alternate reality on another plane.

    No.

    Breath is actually the spirit. God didn't create an alternate plane. He created THIS one, and the concrete things you see moving around in it are direct creations and animations of God - breath IS spirit, and spirit IS breath. That is the exact language that the Hebrews used and that God uses in the Hebrew Scripture: the wind on your face IS the breath of God. It's not a representation of the breath of God - it's the real thing.

    God is much CLOSER and more CONCRETE as he reveals himself in the Hebrew, than as washed through Greek philosophy, with its disdain for the real in favor of the abstract ideal. To the Greek, what we see and touch are just shadows on a cave wall of the real thing. This thought has contaminated the way that Westerners look at religion, though it has not replaced the actual language that says otherwise.

    That's the reason that we bifurcate so much what God has simply revealed. God reveals a unity: breath and spirit - one thing, same word. But we shy away from the direct physically sensible presence of God in our breath and wind. No! It can't be so! Cave wall and shadows! Our pagan Greek philosophers scream at us. So we accord them respect they don't deserve, and overwrite the direct model of reality God gave us for an indirect model of ideals and allegories. And then we believe that our abstracted bifurcation is real, and are stunned by the "primitive" suggested that actually the real is spiritual, and the abstraction is just an attempt to distance ourselves from God.
     
  9. discipler7

    discipler7 Active Member

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    The wind on your face IS the breath of God.???? Are you sure.????
    .
    JOHN.14: =
    15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever --- 17 the Spirit of truth,whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you. ...

    ....25 “These things I have spoken to you while being present with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
    .

    2CORINTHIANS.3: =
    12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech— 13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
    17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.
    .

    JOHN.6: =
    61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before?
    63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
     
  10. Vicomte13

    Vicomte13 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I'm sure. "The wind blows where it will, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
     
  11. Michael L Taylor

    Michael L Taylor New Member

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  12. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    The word for wind is the same as, or similar to, the word for Spirit. But that does not mean that the wind is the Holy Spirit.
    If it was, we'd have a revival every time there was a hurricane/storm.
     
  13. Vicomte13

    Vicomte13 Well-Known Member

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    A 21st Century scientifically-educated Western abstract thinker would say that.

    A 2nd Millennium BC bedouin would not agree.

    Ancient Hebrew is very concrete. Those people were concrete thinkers, not abstract thinkers. The wind is God's breath upon the earth.

    "When they {Adam and Eve] heard the voice of YHWH God as he was walking in the garden during the breeze of the day, the man and his wife concealed themselves from the presence of YHWH God"

    Adam and Eve walked with God in the windy, which is to say spiritual part of the day.
     
  14. discipler7

    discipler7 Active Member

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    When we finally enter into the kingdom of heaven, we will see God the Father, and not God the Mother, even though God's Spirit or the Holy Spirit on earth is motherly and/or sisterly.(= gentle, loving, helpful and nurturing)

    JOHN.14: =
    1 “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. 4 And where I go you know, and the way you know.”

    5 Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?”

    6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
     
  15. discipler7

    discipler7 Active Member

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    Yes, agree. Instead, we have death and destruction from hurricanes/storm/strong wind.
     
  16. Vicomte13

    Vicomte13 Well-Known Member

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    Floods kill. All have sinned.
     
  17. discipler7

    discipler7 Active Member

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    Are you sure that you are sure.????
    .
    JOHN.3: =
    7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

    ACTS.2: = 1 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

    JAMES.1:6 = But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind.

    EPHESIANS.4:14 = 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,
     
  18. Vicomte13

    Vicomte13 Well-Known Member

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    Sure!

    Indeed, each thing you are quoting underlines the point, and reconfirms what I think.

    I don't know how to get you to see what I am seeing. I also don't think it's too terribly important for us to see this down the same sight line. There're philosophic and probably even ethnic differences at work, so let's not trouble each other about this divergence in view.
     
  19. discipler7

    discipler7 Active Member

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    Storm and hurricane-force winds kill three people across Germany
    Windstorm Sebastian killed at least three people in Germany on Wednesday as hurricane-force winds of up to 150 kilometres per hour were recorded in the north of the country.
    A man in a wheelchair was found dead in a river in the northern city of Hamburg, according to local firefighters.

    Witnesses saw him fall into the water and despite a rescue effort that included divers, a boat and a helicopter, he could not be saved.

    A pedestrian also died in Hamburg after he was hit by scaffolding that fell from the seventh floor of a building, police said. He was taken to hospital where he later died.

    A 53-year-old man was the third person to be killed in the storm after being crushed by a tree near the west German spa town Brilon. The man was working in the forest when a 20-metre tall spruce tree fell on him, local police said.
     
  20. Vicomte13

    Vicomte13 Well-Known Member

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    Yes. And God drowned the whole world once. Not a sparrow falls without the Father's consent.
    Everything that dies, dies because the Father has decided that its time has come. Whether the death be by tornado or chest clutcher, or human agency, it is all the same in the end.

    And what is more, the death itself is caused by oxygen deprivation to the brain - the wind of breath, the spirit of life - is no longer carried to the brain, so the flesh dies. What carries the wind to the brain? The blood.
    That is why the blood is life: it carries the life, which is the spirit, which is the wind - the air - physically to the brain.

    The physical is not different from the spiritual. Indeed it is IN spirit - which is wind - where they have their junction.

    This is so. It is not alarming. It is just a different way of looking at the same familiar things - an ancient Hebrew way of looking at it, for whom God was concrete, not abstract.
     
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