Christians owning guns specifically for self defense? (Biblical references, insight?)

[razzelflabben]

You impress me as a very sound (calm and deliberate) thinker. I on the other hand can find that I have times where my thinking can get a bit wobbly. I am not really familiar with PETA but looked it up per your mention of it. I have not taken more than a quick look at it, however. But I do believe that our ethics need to be consistently applied in life else it becomes too easy to turn them off and on in relation to those who might offend us.

I picked up a kitten from the outdoors and brought it in to care for it as it appeared to be dying. It was about 6 weeks old and I took it to the vet to get instructions on how to care for a cat that young that was being eaten alive by fleas. They gave me a special comb and I began by holding its body in a bath of lukewarm water so as to drown the fleas as much as possible and then I combed it regularly each day until I got rid of all signs of eggs and dirt. The life bounced right back into the little guy and he was so rambunctious that I found my patience with him being hard pressed. After about another month I took him and got his shots, (which was much more expensive than I could really afford), and he tested free of feline leukemia and other common diseases but I just could not keep him because he was now so active and learning to use his claws. So I gave him away but it has kind of left me feeling bad about myself like there is something wrong with me. And wouldn't ya know that I could not stand his romping and tearing my furniture but I miss him now that he is gone. I am a contradiction. That was just a few days ago that I gave him to a new home.

I agree with you that we spin our wheels to fight the bad any other way than letting it remind us to move closer to Christ.

awe I love that story...don't feel bad, cats aren't for everyone.

I used to be the resident "vet" at our house when I was growing up. I was teaching our son to be the same before he died. None of the rest of the kids seems to really have the knack they would rather run to the vet. I have only had to take one animal to the vet, our current dog....full blood given to us (1200 dollar dog usually as I said gifted to us) spent a lot of money on emergency room visit only to have him take anti nausea meds and get over it on his own.

Anyway, you have a big heart which is to your credit. I have thoroughly enjoyed talking with you. I still come down to the point in which I believe the best scripture gives us is to seek God and His will in every situation and then rest in knowing that when we seek Him and His wisdom it is ours and there is no more struggle. The problem is that we try to make all kinds of excuses for our lack of faith/trust. Like, what if I didn't hear right...or maybe I wasn't sincere enough...or any number of other excuses. The bottom line is that we need to live as if we believe and trust God to be true to His word and in that seek His Kingdom and wisdom and then rest that it is ours. Amen.

May you grow ever closer to our Lord as you endure all that is ask of you. May you rest in His grace ad wisdom as you learn to trust Him more and more.

 

[Buzz_B]

awe I love that story...don't feel bad, cats aren't for everyone.

I used to be the resident "vet" at our house when I was growing up. I was teaching our son to be the same before he died. None of the rest of the kids seems to really have the knack they would rather run to the vet. I have only had to take one animal to the vet, our current dog....full blood given to us (1200 dollar dog usually as I said gifted to us) spent a lot of money on emergency room visit only to have him take anti nausea meds and get over it on his own.

Anyway, you have a big heart which is to your credit. I have thoroughly enjoyed talking with you. I still come down to the point in which I believe the best scripture gives us is to seek God and His will in every situation and then rest in knowing that when we seek Him and His wisdom it is ours and there is no more struggle. The problem is that we try to make all kinds of excuses for our lack of faith/trust. Like, what if I didn't hear right...or maybe I wasn't sincere enough...or any number of other excuses. The bottom line is that we need to live as if we believe and trust God to be true to His word and in that seek His Kingdom and wisdom and then rest that it is ours. Amen.

May you grow ever closer to our Lord as you endure all that is ask of you. May you rest in His grace ad wisdom as you learn to trust Him more and more.

Yes, this little kitten had roundworms no doubt from ingesting fleas as it tried to get rid of them. So that first trip to the vets on November 8 I had him treated with Revolution for heartworm and flea prevention ($21.00). Then December 1st I took him to get his tests and vaccinations ($167.00). And if I had kept him I would be looking at another $195.90 this coming January for booster shots and neutering. It really gets expensive in a hurry. During the months time I had him I went through about 20lbs of litter and 30 cans of cat food. He was eating better than me. When I first found him he could sit in my two open hands placed together but after stopping those fleas from sucking the life out of him, and I am not kidding, in just that one month's time he grew at least 3 times as big.

But there is a point related to our discussion in this thread I would like to tie in here. What I have in mind is Isaiah 11:5-9 as it relates to the subject of this thread. The animals pictured there are really portraits of human personalities. And natural enemies are shown there coming to live at peace with one another (as verse 9 says) "for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea."

Now, that seems to be why God wants us to turn the other cheek, wouldn't you think so?
Proverbs 16:7 "When a man's ways please the LORD, he maketh even his enemies to be at peace with him."

God's desire is to save all who will permit themselves to be saved. Each of us have taken different amounts of time to come to repentance. And before our repentance each of us did different kinds of badness, sometimes quite bad. Every enemy we kill is an enemy who likely will not be there in that picture in Isaiah 11. For, ".... in the place where the tree falleth, there it shall be." Ecclesiastes 11:3

That ought to give us great pause.

 

[razzelflabben]

Yes, this little kitten had roundworms no doubt from ingesting fleas as it tried to get rid of them. So that first trip to the vets on November 8 I had him treated with Revolution for heartworm and flea prevention ($21.00). Then December 1st I took him to get his tests and vaccinations ($167.00). And if I had kept him I would be looking at another $195.90 this coming January for booster shots and neutering. It really gets expensive in a hurry. During the months time I had him I went through about 20lbs of litter and 30 cans of cat food. He was eating better than me. When I first found him he could sit in my two open hands placed together but after stopping those fleas from sucking the life out of him, and I am not kidding, in just that one month's time he grew at least 3 times as big.

But there is a point related to our discussion in this thread I would like to tie in here. What I have in mind is Isaiah 11:5-9 as it relates to the subject of this thread. The animals pictured there are really portraits of human personalities. And natural enemies are shown there coming to live at peace with one another (as verse 9 says) "for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea."

Now, that seems to be why God wants us to turn the other cheek, wouldn't you think so?
Proverbs 16:7 "When a man's ways please the LORD, he maketh even his enemies to be at peace with him."

God's desire is to save all who will permit themselves to be saved. Each of us have taken different amounts of time to come to repentance. And before our repentance each of us did different kinds of badness, sometimes quite bad. Every enemy we kill is an enemy who likely will not be there in that picture in Isaiah 11. For, ".... in the place where the tree falleth, there it shall be." Ecclesiastes 11:3

That ought to give us great pause.

The passage you refer to about turning the other cheek is one that has challenged me on many different levels and occasions. It is a very beautiful verse and shows us the power of the Living God...amen but as I previously pointed out, the context of the passage is dealing with none lethal assaults. Now personally I have a bit of a different take then most because of something that happened to me....the story goes like this.

Some years ago I was driving kids to and from a christian youth group. One night it was just myself and a friend of my sisters. God had been talking to her about her music and how she needed to get rid of the music that was pulling her away from God. Well, the night we talked in the driveway so that we were not interrupted. It was a cool night so the car windows were up and we were alone sitting in the drive talking. At one point during the night, she became so angry that she pulled a knife and tried to stab me with it. As she told the story she said this....as I was trying to stab you, a force like that of a hand held my arm till I was ready to put the knife away and listen.

I am a firm believer that God protects us more than we will ever know in the life. I am a firm believer that if harm or death can be avoided we should. But given scripture, I am also a firm believer that if God says to kill someone to keep them from hurting someone we should. The passage about turning the other cheek is as I said non lethal in terms of context. It terms of totality of scripture protecting or self defense as it were is not sin...which is why it comes down to what God says. Would I always prefer to turn the other cheek, absolutely, do I think that is always God's plan, not at all. If it were always God's plan then the OT would not show us a God who commanded self defense...or law that protected us when we had to use force to protect ourselves or others.

 

[Buzz_B]

The passage you refer to about turning the other cheek is one that has challenged me on many different levels and occasions. It is a very beautiful verse and shows us the power of the Living God...amen but as I previously pointed out, the context of the passage is dealing with none lethal assaults. Now personally I have a bit of a different take then most because of something that happened to me....the story goes like this.

Some years ago I was driving kids to and from a christian youth group. One night it was just myself and a friend of my sisters. God had been talking to her about her music and how she needed to get rid of the music that was pulling her away from God. Well, the night we talked in the driveway so that we were not interrupted. It was a cool night so the car windows were up and we were alone sitting in the drive talking. At one point during the night, she became so angry that she pulled a knife and tried to stab me with it. As she told the story she said this....as I was trying to stab you, a force like that of a hand held my arm till I was ready to put the knife away and listen.

I am a firm believer that God protects us more than we will ever know in the life. I am a firm believer that if harm or death can be avoided we should. But given scripture, I am also a firm believer that if God says to kill someone to keep them from hurting someone we should. The passage about turning the other cheek is as I said non lethal in terms of context. It terms of totality of scripture protecting or self defense as it were is not sin...which is why it comes down to what God says. Would I always prefer to turn the other cheek, absolutely, do I think that is always God's plan, not at all. If it were always God's plan then the OT would not show us a God who commanded self defense...or law that protected us when we had to use force to protect ourselves or others.

Wow! That was quite an experience. I have heard similar stories related by others and I do not doubt that they do happen.

I know that there is a spirit world and could relate some events in my own life which proved that to me. But I cannot say that I have ever had anything like that happen, least wise not with me knowing about it.

When I was ten I was molested at a gas-station bathroom where I had gone to spend my allowance on pop and chips. After I got free from my attacker I immediately ran home to tell my mother. My mother grabbed me by the arm and practically dragged me back up to that gas-station (she did not drive cars and had no license) where she then screamed irately at the owner of the gas-station. I was horribly embarrassed by her broadcasting so loudly my shame. The owner said he thought it was a high school kid who lived behind the station at the front row of a trailer court. I had kids i went to school with also living in that trailer court close by. But she went to that trailer and banged on its door and then stood outside screaming at the kids mother (and it was him as I saw when his mother called him to the door) but all I could think was, Mom, why are you doing this to me. Everyone heard about it and I had to go to school now and face them. I was so ashamed and I had thoughts of God must hate me to be letting this happen to me. That older kid had to save face somehow and so he told everyone that I was a homosexual and that I had initiated the whole thing. Sometime later I tried to take over a paper route but it turned out the kid that claimed he would turn it over to me was setting me up to be beaten and molested by two other high school seniors. He told me an old woman that could not walk lived in the trailer (on the backside of the court) and that I was to just knock and walk right in to deliver her paper and collect money from her. No sooner than I entered the door one of the two young men slammed the door shut and the other grabbed me by the hair of my head and drug me down the hall way to a rear bedroom. They hurled me on the bed and straddled me with their knees, beating me in the face to get me to give in to them. And though I resisted for a little while I did finally give in. I felt I was at fault for being a coward in having finally given in. I went home with my face all swollen up and bruised and when my mother asked me I told her I was playing football and accidentally got kicked in the face, because I was not about to risk going through again what I had at that gas-station and the first kids trailer with her. And it didn't stop there. Someone told an older homosexual man about me and he began coming around when I would go fishing at a nearby stream in the woods. He attacked just they had.

You have no idea the emotional problems that scared me with. Often I thought, God, why did you even let me be born if you aren't going to protect me. But I never stopped believing in him because I saw so much beauty in the trees and the sky and animal life that I just knew he wasn't like that. But I suferred so badly and not being able to understand, most of the time I just wanted to die but was to much a coward to kill myself. I guess that is sort of how Job felt.

Then society's authoritarians instead of seeking to find out what was going on with me compounded the damage ten-fold. Oh, what I could share about that.

As you might be able to imagine, the talk of that also led to bullies coming after me. The remainder of my grade school years I was terrified to go out at recess time knowing I would be attacked and bullied. And a couple of my worst bullies grew up to become policemen. Oh, the things I could tell you. I couldn't ride the bus without someone there to bully me and if I walked they would find out and walk too. When I would change the route I would take to and from school they would figure it out. There was no getting away from it.

 

[razzelflabben]

Wow! That was quite an experience. I have heard similar stories related by others and I do not doubt that they do happen.

I know that there is a spirit world and could relate some events in my own life which proved that to me. But I cannot say that I have ever had anything like that happen, least wise not with me knowing about it.

When I was ten I was molested at a gas-station bathroom where I had gone to spend my allowance on pop and chips. After I got free from my attacker I immediately ran home to tell my mother. My mother grabbed me by the arm and practically dragged me back up to that gas-station (she did not drive cars and had no license) where she then screamed irately at the owner of the gas-station. I was horribly embarrassed by her broadcasting so loudly my shame. The owner said he thought it was a high school kid who lived behind the station at the front row of a trailer court. I had kids i went to school with also living in that trailer court close by. But she went to that trailer and banged on its door and then stood outside screaming at the kids mother (and it was him as I saw when his mother called him to the door) but all I could think was, Mom, why are you doing this to me. Everyone heard about it and I had to go to school now and face them. I was so ashamed and I had thoughts of God must hate me to be letting this happen to me. That older kid had to save face somehow and so he told everyone that I was a homosexual and that I had initiated the whole thing. Sometime later I tried to take over a paper route but it turned out the kid that claimed he would turn it over to me was setting me up to be beaten and molested by two other high school seniors. He told me an old woman that could not walk lived in the trailer (on the backside of the court) and that I was to just knock and walk right in to deliver her paper and collect money from her. No sooner than I entered the door one of the two young men slammed the door shut and the other grabbed me by the hair of my head and drug me down the hall way to a rear bedroom. They hurled me on the bed and straddled me with their knees, beating me in the face to get me to give in to them. And though I resisted for a little while I did finally give in. I felt I was at fault for being a coward in having finally given in. I went home with my face all swollen up and bruised and when my mother asked me I told her I was playing football and accidentally got kicked in the face, because I was not about to risk going through again what I had at that gas-station and the first kids trailer with her. And it didn't stop there. Someone told an older homosexual man about me and he began coming around when I would go fishing at a nearby stream in the woods. He attacked just they had.

You have no idea the emotional problems that scared me with. Often I thought, God, why did you even let me be born if you aren't going to protect me. But I never stopped believing in him because I saw so much beauty in the trees and the sky and animal life that I just knew he wasn't like that. But I suferred so badly and not being able to understand, most of the time I just wanted to die but was to much a coward to kill myself. I guess that is sort of how Job felt.

Being molested or raped is a very terrible thing and those that have never experienced it just can't fathom the violation. For me it was a terrible betrayal for it was my brother that molested me....I have a friend who was violated by her father...our own daughter was raped in the military...it's a very disturbing and horrifying experience. I am sorry you had to endure it.

When I was 6 my life was so out of control I was looking for a way to kill myself. I was physical, emotionally, verbally abused at that point. One night as I was trying to figure out how to kill myself I reasoned that this world couldn't just happen that there had to be a creator and if a creator, He/She/It would never create something greater than Himself/Herself/Itself. If nothing was greater than all I needed to survive was to become one with the creator. That night I prayed to a God I didn't know that if I was right would He become so much a part of me that it was impossible to tell where He began and I ended. Thus began my quest to know intimately the Living God. He did reveal Himself to me in some rather amazing ways.

One of those revelations came some years later. I was in high school and my situation had not changed. I no longer wanted to kill myself and by this time my brother was trying to molest me, but otherwise nothing seemed to have changed. I was still being beaten, verbally assaulted, emotionally assaulted, etc. Well one day I was sitting sewing. My sister came in the room and laid on me. I asked her to move, she refused, I told her to move, she refused. Finally I took hold of her arms and set her off of me. My sister ran to my father and told him that I had scratched her and showed him an old wound that was healing. My father went nuts, took off his belt and began to beat me for scratching my sister. If you had been watching that day you would have sworn I got the beating of my life but the amazing thing was that the belt never touched me. That day Christ stood between me and the belt. There was neither the sting of the beating nor marks left on my body...Christ literally took my beating that day. It was then that I looked back over the years and realized that though my situation never changed, God had in fact transformed Me...I was different and I was thriving in a situation that was meant to destroy me.

We cannot fathom the Love nor the power of God when we give ourselves wholly to Him. He heals wounds, changes lives, makes peace where there should be none. This is the power that we take with us when we come face to face with assault...it's a power we can trust without worry about what is and is not the "right" thing to do when we see that scripture itself is not as clear as we would hope.

May you find healing and peace from the trials, struggles, and assaults you have known.

 

[Buzz_B]

Being molested or raped is a very terrible thing and those that have never experienced it just can't fathom the violation. For me it was a terrible betrayal for it was my brother that molested me....I have a friend who was violated by her father...our own daughter was raped in the military...it's a very disturbing and horrifying experience. I am sorry you had to endure it.

When I was 6 my life was so out of control I was looking for a way to kill myself. I was physical, emotionally, verbally abused at that point. One night as I was trying to figure out how to kill myself I reasoned that this world couldn't just happen that there had to be a creator and if a creator, He/She/It would never create something greater than Himself/Herself/Itself. If nothing was greater than all I needed to survive was to become one with the creator. That night I prayed to a God I didn't know that if I was right would He become so much a part of me that it was impossible to tell where He began and I ended. Thus began my quest to know intimately the Living God. He did reveal Himself to me in some rather amazing ways.

One of those revelations came some years later. I was in high school and my situation had not changed. I no longer wanted to kill myself and by this time my brother was trying to molest me, but otherwise nothing seemed to have changed. I was still being beaten, verbally assaulted, emotionally assaulted, etc. Well one day I was sitting sewing. My sister came in the room and laid on me. I asked her to move, she refused, I told her to move, she refused. Finally I took hold of her arms and set her off of me. My sister ran to my father and told him that I had scratched her and showed him an old wound that was healing. My father went nuts, took off his belt and began to beat me for scratching my sister. If you had been watching that day you would have sworn I got the beating of my life but the amazing thing was that the belt never touched me. That day Christ stood between me and the belt. There was neither the sting of the beating nor marks left on my body...Christ literally took my beating that day. It was then that I looked back over the years and realized that though my situation never changed, God had in fact transformed Me...I was different and I was thriving in a situation that was meant to destroy me.

We cannot fathom the Love nor the power of God when we give ourselves wholly to Him. He heals wounds, changes lives, makes peace where there should be none. This is the power that we take with us when we come face to face with assault...it's a power we can trust without worry about what is and is not the "right" thing to do when we see that scripture itself is not as clear as we would hope.

May you find healing and peace from the trials, struggles, and assaults you have known.

Your father sounds very much like my father in his use of the belt and out of control beatings. But I had seen him beat my mother up many times from as far back as I can remember. So I knew that his violence was toward everyone, not just me. That led to fist fights between he and I after I got into my mid teens. I became my mother's defender.

From early on in life I could leave home and go where I wanted to go and I had developed a habit at a young age of escaping the fighting at home by going out and walking the railroad tracks for miles at a time. But I loved to do it at night because God's beautiful night heavens soothed me. I constantly talked to him and told him how beautiful his works was. I marveled at the trees and birds and other animal life, all of which made me think of God and talk to him. I accredit that to be the only reason I was able to survive. So I appreciate what you say.

 

[razzelflabben]

Your father sounds very much like my father in his use of the belt and out of control beatings. But I had seen him beat my mother up many times from as far back as I can remember. So I knew that his violence was toward everyone, not just me. That led to fist fights between he and I after I got into my mid teens. I became my mother's defender.

From early on in life I could leave home and go where I wanted to go and I had developed a habit at a young age of escaping the fighting at home by going out and walking the railroad tracks for miles at a time. But I loved to do it at night because God's beautiful night heavens soothed me. I constantly talked to him and told him how beautiful his works was. I marveled at the trees and birds and other animal life, all of which made me think of God and talk to him. I accredit that to be the only reason I was able to survive. So I appreciate what you say.

when I was able to escape the house I would wander on our over 100 acres and talk to God...Had over 300 acres we could roam on but usually stuck to the family farm of over 100.

 

[razzelflabben]

Previously you mentioned Job. I have on many occasions been compared to Job which is uncomfortable for me but I do get why people do. I recently did a new study of Job and was struck by how he could worship God in the midst of his grief. What a beautiful picture of God's Love and power and peace.

 

[Buzz_B]

when I was able to escape the house I would wander on our over 100 acres and talk to God...Had over 300 acres we could roam on but usually stuck to the family farm of over 100.

I find that fascinating. I guess it is sort of a natural instinct when things get to feeling almost unbearable where we live as a child.

But I would like to add that I honestly felt like God was my real father which greatly made up for my flesh father and I craved those walks just to be with God and talk to him.

 

[razzelflabben]

I find that fascinating. I guess it is sort of a natural instinct when things get to feeling almost unbearable where we live as a child.

But I would like to add that I honestly felt like God was my real father which greatly made up for my flesh father and I craved those walks just to be with God and talk to him.

I don't know that I have ever seen God as my father but He has always been King and Lord.

 

[Buzz_B]

I don't know that I have ever seen God as my father but He has always been King and Lord.

I feel him as my Father yet today and maybe even more so.

"Our Father who art in heaven" seems like the only natural way to address him. When I pray, I pray, "Father, thank you for this day" and "Father, thy will be done."

I know the deep feeling which cries "Abba Father."

Abba is a vocative form of father, it is like calling as a son would to his father invoking the power of the relationship.

Romans 8:15 "For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father."

Galatians 4:6 "And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father."

If you are born of him then who else would he be? And if born of him then it honors him to recognize his having sired you by such an expression of endearment.

He is still your king. He is yet your Lord. Your Father is Lord and King over all.

 

[razzelflabben]

I feel him as my Father yet today and maybe even more so.

"Our Father who art in heaven" seems like the only natural way to address him. When I pray, I pray, "Father, thank you for this day" and "Father, thy will be done."

I know the deep feeling which cries "Abba Father."

Abba is a vocative form of father, it is like calling as a son would to his father invoking the power of the relationship.

Romans 8:15 "For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father."

Galatians 4:6 "And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father."

If you are born of him then who else would he be? And if born of him then it honors him to recognize his having sired you by such an expression of endearment.

He is still your king. He is yet your Lord. Your Father is Lord and King over all.

Mentally I understand all that and in a way, I think I understand it in my heart....I was always taught that I had no value, that I was responsible for everything, those are "demons" I still fight to a degree and so somewhere in the back of my mind I don't want God to tell me the same thing, that I am worthless...I know that sounds crazy but such is life when abuse has been the norm, there are things that stick with you that you have to fight your entire life to keep them at bay...that is one of mine.

 

[Buzz_B]

Mentally I understand all that and in a way, I think I understand it in my heart....I was always taught that I had no value, that I was responsible for everything, those are "demons" I still fight to a degree and so somewhere in the back of my mind I don't want God to tell me the same thing, that I am worthless...I know that sounds crazy but such is life when abuse has been the norm, there are things that stick with you that you have to fight your entire life to keep them at bay...that is one of mine.

I completely understand. I know that I yet have remnants of tendencies and painful memories. Of course the memories don't bother me so much anymore until I get to thinking at length about it. We have good reason to look forward to the fulfillment of Revelation 21:3-4.

 

[razzelflabben]

I completely understand. I know that I yet have remnants of tendencies and painful memories. Of course the memories don't bother me so much anymore until I get to thinking at length about it. We have good reason to look forward to the fulfillment of Revelation 21:3-4.

amen...my biggest problems are the constant reminders. As long as I can keep my thoughts off me (humility) I do fine even to the point that my daughter once told me "mom with everything you have been through you should be really messed up but you aren't." haha, the power of God over the bondage of sin and death...!

 

[Buzz_B]

amen...my biggest problems are the constant reminders. As long as I can keep my thoughts off me (humility) I do fine even to the point that my daughter once told me "mom with everything you have been through you should be really messed up but you aren't." haha, the power of God over the bondage of sin and death...!

Yes, there is healing in his wings, for sure. For like a baby chick taking shelter from the elements under its mother's wing, he gives us that much needed feeling of being cared for and protected.

Some would look at my life and think, 'Well, that is some protection he gave you!' But I have learned to see the person of me who experienced all of that as the flesh existing in sin. I am separated away from that in the spirit and though the flesh be suffering this terrible death, in him my spirit I am growing with life more fully so day by day. I understand that seems like a confusing statement to many. But it makes sense to me because I experience it and see that I learn things from it that I do not know if I could have learned any other way. I truly believe that nothing is a loss unless it drives us into bitterness whereby we crawl up in a fetal position and just give in to death, never learning anything from it.

Flesh society is a society with a mindset driven by seeing things as trash. If one is disillusioned because that man or woman they chose to be their life-long marriage partner turned out to have flaws, just divorce them, throwing them out as if they are just so much trash. If we see that a man or a woman has mental/emotional problems which causes them to be a threat to others, why should we be bothered with them for they are but trash. One can allow their self to act rashly toward anyone else merely by seeing their actions as proving that they are trash. Many of these same ones would understand that you don't throw a dog or a cat out in the cold, treating it like a piece of trash, just because it gets on your nerves. Yet, while they feel good about themselves for treating a dog or a cat honorably they approve themselves in moments to treat their fellow as trash.

In Christ we learn that we are all one body. If we call any part of that body trash we are essentially admitting that we ourselves are trash. A sickened part of the body has never been healed by hating it. The sickened part receives more time and attention to care for it that it might heal.

But society is tired of bearing sickness in the body and now only desires to amputate in desperation to be free of the thing which grieves them. It will never work out for the better doing it that way. Every piece of the body which dies is a piece of us.

 

[razzelflabben]

Yes, there is healing in his wings, for sure. For like a baby chick taking shelter from the elements under its mother's wing, he gives us that much needed feeling of being cared for and protected.

Some would look at my life and think, 'Well, that is some protection he gave you!' But I have learned to see the person of me who experienced all of that as the flesh existing in sin. I am separated away from that in the spirit and though the flesh be suffering this terrible death, in him my spirit I am growing with life more fully so day by day. I understand that seems like a confusing statement to many. But it makes sense to me because I experience it and see that I learn things from it that I do not know if I could have learned any other way. I truly believe that nothing is a loss unless it drives us into bitterness whereby we crawl up in a fetal position and just give in to death, never learning anything from it.

Flesh society is a society with a mindset driven by seeing things as trash. If one is disillusioned because that man or woman they chose to be their life-long marriage partner turned out to have flaws, just divorce them, throwing them out as if they are just so much trash. If we see that a man or a woman has mental/emotional problems which causes them to be a threat to others, why should we be bothered with them for they are but trash. One can allow their self to act rashly toward anyone else merely by seeing their actions as proving that they are trash. Many of these same ones would understand that you don't throw a dog or a cat out in the cold, treating it like a piece of trash, just because it gets on your nerves. Yet, while they feel good about themselves for treating a dog or a cat honorably they approve themselves in moments to treat their fellow as trash.

In Christ we learn that we are all one body. If we call any part of that body trash we are essentially admitting that we ourselves are trash. A sickened part of the body has never been healed by hating it. The sickened part receives more time and attention to care for it that it might heal.

But society is tired of bearing sickness in the body and now only desires to amputate in desperation to be free of the thing which grieves them. It will never work out for the better doing it that way. Every piece of the body which dies is a piece of us.

sorry for the silence, our internet has been out....as to your post...amen.

Christ came to destroy sin and death and yet so many see that as only what is coming or only their own sin few understand that in the flesh we are slaves not only to our sins but the sins that other commit against us as well. Christ's power is over even the bondage we are in to the sins others have committed against us...amen.

As to the body of Christ, again I say amen. When one suffers we all suffer and when one rejoices we all rejoice. Oh how seldom we apply our understanding and spiritual new life to that understanding and living out the Love of Christ.

 

[GenemZ]

Yes, there is healing in his wings, for sure. For like a baby chick taking shelter from the elements under its mother's wing, he gives us that much needed feeling of being cared for and protected.

David took that security the Lord gives His faithful ones and fought and slaughtered the enemies that wanted to destroy the Jews national security. David did such a wonderful job of destroying and dissemination of the enemies that his son Solomon had forty years of freedom from enemies attacking.

Peace comes be nullifying ones enemies.... be it by great military and law and order.... And, by rightly analyzing the Word as to destroy false teachings that rise up as to mislead the body of Christ.

We are not of this world, but we are yet in this world. We are here to show the world the better system by example. A well trained soldier in the Word of God will be the best soldier in times of peace and war.

And, for those who teach what is false and hide by demanding that we love one another?

"The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world.
On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.
We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up
against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought
to make it obedient to Christ." 2 Cor 10:4-5​

That is saying that we do not fight like Muslims. Mohammedans who impose their faith by violence and threats of terrorizing those who resist their will.We are not to fight false teachings that way.

And, that when false teaching is attacked?... Its attacked to be utterly destroyed. They are to be demolished!

"On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.
We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up
against the knowledge of God.."​

No "love the brethren" stuff when it comes to confronting false teachers. Those who are victims of false teachers (or, a victim of their own sentimental speculations) are to be treated in love But the teachings themselves are not to be spared. Nor are the teachers whom Jesus called "wolves" in sheep's clothing.

To do so we must fight with intelligence by gaining great learning of the Word.... To gain (by grace) insight from the knowledge that God brings to us by means of a few good dedicated anointed men (Jms 3:1).. Who are placed here for equipping us for spiritual warfare.

False teachers lead sloppy pot bellied militias that attempt to gain control with a mob mentality of everyone agreeing to believe the same erroneous traditions which are distortions. Satan will crush that kind if God ever removes His protective wall of fire on a nation where they reside.

But, for those who walk in sound doctrine. They will be like the three young men thrown into the furnace. Satan can not touch them unless God allows for a Job testimony to be given.

 

[Buzz_B]

David took that security the Lord gives His faithful ones and fought and slaughtered the enemies that wanted to destroy the Jews national security. David did such a wonderful job of destroying and dissemination of the enemies that his son Solomon had forty years of freedom from enemies attacking.

Peace comes be nullifying ones enemies.... be it by great military and law and order.... And, by rightly analyzing the Word as to destroy false teachings that rise up as to mislead the body of Christ.

We are not of this world, but we are yet in this world. We are here to show the world the better system by example. A well trained soldier in the Word of God will be the best soldier in times of peace and war.

And, for those who teach what is false and hide by demanding that we love one another?

"The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world.
On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.
We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up
against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought
to make it obedient to Christ." 2 Cor 10:4-5​

That is saying that we do not fight like Muslims. Mohammedans who impose their faith by violence and threats of terrorizing those who resist their will.We are not to fight false teachings that way.

And, that when false teaching is attacked?... Its attacked to be utterly destroyed. They are to be demolished!

"On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.
We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up
against the knowledge of God.."​

No "love the brethren" stuff when it comes to confronting false teachers. Those who are victims of false teachers (or, a victim of their own sentimental speculations) are to be treated in love But the teachings themselves are not to be spared. Nor are the teachers whom Jesus called "wolves" in sheep's clothing.

To do so we must fight with intelligence by gaining great learning of the Word.... To gain (by grace) insight from the knowledge that God brings to us by means of a few good dedicated anointed men (Jms 3:1).. Who are placed here for equipping us for spiritual warfare.

False teachers lead sloppy pot bellied militias that attempt to gain control with a mob mentality of everyone agreeing to believe the same erroneous traditions which are distortions. Satan will crush that kind if God ever removes His protective wall of fire on a nation where they reside.

But, for those who walk in sound doctrine. They will be like the three young men thrown into the furnace. Satan can not touch them unless God allows for a Job testimony to be given.

That is a very good post, genez.

I fully agree with you although I am a bit concerned that there is a huge difference in David's battles, or for that matter Israel's in general, in that they did not war unless they consulted God's prophet (In David's case that was the prophet Samuel). Did the nations of the earth consult a true prophet of God before they chose to enter into war or did they consult their own choice of wise men? And when any king of Israel failed to listen to God's true prophets were they not then defeated in battle? Should we present ourselves willing to the slaughter by trusting in our own choice of wise men? Which one of them has God appointed as our prophet? Who did God appoint as our prophet like unto Moses?

 

[GenemZ]

That is a very good post, genez.

I fully agree with you although I am a bit concerned that there is a huge difference in David's battles, or for that matter Israel's in general, in that they did not war unless they consulted God's prophet (In David's case that was the prophet Samuel). Did the nations of the earth consult a true prophet of God before they chose to enter into war or did they consult their own choice of wise men? And when any king of Israel failed to listen to God's true prophets were they not then defeated in battle? Should we present ourselves willing to the slaughter by trusting in our own choice of wise men? Which one of them has God appointed as our prophet? Who did God appoint as our prophet like unto Moses?

I believe you will discover that David consulted to see if it were the right time... or, which enemy of several choices at that time to attack. It was not a matter of knowing, or not knowing, who should be attacked. Only when.

Moses same thing... and would seek the Lord to know what tribes to enlist.

 

[Buzz_B]

sorry for the silence, our internet has been out....as to your post...amen.

Christ came to destroy sin and death and yet so many see that as only what is coming or only their own sin few understand that in the flesh we are slaves not only to our sins but the sins that other commit against us as well. Christ's power is over even the bondage we are in to the sins others have committed against us...amen.

As to the body of Christ, again I say amen. When one suffers we all suffer and when one rejoices we all rejoice. Oh how seldom we apply our understanding and spiritual new life to that understanding and living out the Love of Christ.

You posted this before I posted in another thread wherein I used almost the same exact word, "When one suffers we all suffer and when one rejoices we all rejoice."

God is wonderful and he truly does unite us as one. So much so that our thinking comes into perfect harmony. The joy of that bond more than makes up for the struggles we had to go through to get there.