Christians are not going to be judged by the ten commandments.

[NannaNae]

We should not promote that love has no laws! It is indeed the opposite, love has law!
Do you have children? If not reflect on your childhood. Do you love your children? Do let them in love do as they like? NO!! Simple put love has rule, laws!

sorry that was a goof of types of
" Love"in that I was talking about HIS Agape that we do for each other for christ out of obedience. there is NO law that can Judge HIs love/ agape .... not any kind of human love.

 

[NannaNae]

ok so you can have faith , and works and everything and not follow his words?

ok.. i'm out of here!!

 

[Elder 111]

Originally Posted by Elder 111

Originally Posted by Elder 111

What rest are you talking about? You mean rest from sins committed or the Sabbath?
​

I am going to take it that you mean rest from sins as you have rejected the Sabbath rest already.
Your support for such a position is taken from Heb. 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
But here is where your position is shown to be completely flawed! The text says as God rested, did God rest from sin?
​

You take that very wrong.

Set it right then.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Let's decide to rest from sabbatarianism

 

[BobRyan]

Some things are so obvious even the RCC notices it.


[FONT=&quot]Dies Domini is a papal encyclical on the subject of Sunday and how it is regarded by tradition to be a holy day rooted in the 10 commandments as a continuation of the 4th commandment (numbered 3 by Roman Catholics).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Dies Domini, John Paul II, 5 July 1998 - Apostolic Letter [/FONT]

========================== Dies Domini begin
[FONT=&quot]Dies Domini pt 11 [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"the rest of the Sabbath..discloses something of the nuptial shape of the relationship which God wants to establish with the creature made in his image, by calling that creature to enter a pact of love".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] Dies Domini pt 13 -[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Dies Domini pt 11 "if the first page of the book of Genesis presents God's work as an example for man, the same is true of God's rest - on the seventh day God finished his work which he had done therefore God blessed the seventh day and made it holy...it is a gaze which God casts upon all things, but in a special way upon man, the crown
of creation. It is a gaze which already discloses something of the nuptial shape of the relationship God wants to establish with the creature made in his own image, by calling that creature to enter a pact of love."[/FONT]

=============================== Dies Domini ... end quote

The quote I gave from Dies Domini is fully consistent with the examples I gave from the Catholic Catechism - at least that is what we appear to have in the details of those quotes.

You provide no one example of Dies Domini or the CCC objecting to the 7 points listed in the OP. No not one.

I offer a perfect example to test the points -- in quotes from your own CCC. All you have done in the above post is ask if I have read - D. D. in its entirety.???

I say again that 6 of the 7 points appear here.

[FONT=&quot]2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.13 They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus 14 and Deuteronomy.15 Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words,"16 but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2063.... the words of the Decalogue remain likewise for us Christians. Far from being abolished, they have received amplification and development from the fact of the coming of the Lord in the flesh.26[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christiansand that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot](Application in James 2)
2069 The Decalogue forms a coherent whole. Each "word" refers to each of the others and to all of them; they reciprocally condition one another. the two tables shed light on one another; they form an organic unity. To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.30 One cannot honor another person without blessing God his Creator. One cannot adore God without loving all men, his creatures. the Decalogue brings man's religious and social life into unity.[/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

Maybe they know about the Ten Commandments as they are referenced in the actual Bible.

Bible texts both NT and OT about God's Commandments - Showing that the TEN Commandments are assigned the title "in scripture" as being "Commandments of God" -- and as also being "The Word of God"

10 Commandments are –
“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
“Law of God” Neh 10:29
“Word of God” Mark 7:13
“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Note that in 1John 5 - John contrasts "LOVE", to the Commandments of God. He does not say "By this we know that we Love God -- if we Love God".

Rather John points to obedience to the WORD of God "the Commandments of God" as the sign that we truly to LOVE God. Being at war against his Word is not such a great sign of "loving God" as some had perhaps imagined.

1 John 5
"Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:1-3

 

[Elder 111]

sorry that was a goof of types of
" Love"in that I was talking about HIS Agape that we do for each other for christ out of obedience. there is NO law that can Judge HIs love/ agape .... not any kind of human love.

It is not a matter of Judging God's love but that as Jesus states " if you love me keep my commandments". The true status of our love will be measured by how we keep His commandments. Consider the following. Mat. 19:
17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

[NannaNae]

yes the law is our minimum service....... as his servants , anything else is using his name in vain. that is where are hearts are commanded to this walk and where it is we start our walk as servants to a king.. everyone wants to start as a son / child / heir , in their own eyes , that is just so wrong . and that is not where a
disciple starts his education as a servant.

It is way better to let God promote us when he makes us ready if he wishes to .

but we should not promote ourselves ever .

 

[mmksparbud]

And what is wrong with being judged by the 10 commandments??--They are a barometer of ones love--of our love for man--we won't kill, commit adultery, steal from each other and so on because we love them. If we love God, we do what He says and honor His name and so on. Why is all that so impossible? God's love is in us and we do those things out of that love--His yoke is easy, his burden light. It is not the keeping of the 10 commandments that upsets everyone--they'll be automatically kept when you love--it's the 4th one that gets everybody riled up--if we are judged by keeping only 9 then no one would be saying anything. God's grace will be given to those who love God and man. The commandments were given to tell us how to love God and man--there are 6 for loving man, only 4 for loving God--but the objection is really only over one of the 4.

 

[listed]

Originally Posted by Elder 111

Originally Posted by Elder 111

What rest are you talking about? You mean rest from sins committed or the Sabbath?
​

I am going to take it that you mean rest from sins as you have rejected the Sabbath rest already.
Your support for such a position is taken from Heb. 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
But here is where your position is shown to be completely flawed! The text says as God rested, did God rest from sin?
​

Set it right then.

For you that can not be done.

 

[MoreCoffee]

And what is wrong with being judged by the 10 commandments??

Would one who wants to be judged by God on the basis of their conformity to the ten commandments expect to find a verdict of "innocent"? If not then what consequence would be expected if the verdict were "guilty of sin. guilty of offending God. guilty of wickedness. unfit for eternal life. condemned to eternal punishment"? It's a foolish soul that wants to be judged on their own performance. Perhaps everybody is afraid of being judged by God on the baiss of their personal conformity to the demands of the ten commandments.

--They are a barometer of ones love--of our love for man--we won't kill, commit adultery, steal from each other and so on because we love them. If we love God, we do what He says and honor His name and so on. Why is all that so impossible? God's love is in us and we do those things out of that love--His yoke is easy, his burden light. It is not the keeping of the 10 commandments that upsets everyone--they'll be automatically kept when you love--it's the 4th one that gets everybody riled up--if we are judged by keeping only 9 then no one would be saying anything. God's grace will be given to those who love God and man. The commandments were given to tell us how to love God and man--there are 6 for loving man, only 4 for loving God--but the objection is really only over one of the 4.

 

[BobRyan]

And what is wrong with being judged by the 10 commandments??--They are a barometer of ones love--of our love for man--we won't kill, commit adultery, steal from each other and so on because we love them. .

Indeed as Christ said "By their fruits you shall know them"

as James 2 reminds us.

James 2
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.


Even the RCC admits the Law of James 2 is the moral law of God - the TEN Commandments and to break one is to break them all.

Some things are so obvious even the RCC notices it.


[FONT=&quot](Application in James 2)
2069 The Decalogue forms a coherent whole. Each "word" refers to each of the others and to all of them; they reciprocally condition one another. the two tables shed light on one another; they form an organic unity. To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.30 One cannot honor another person without blessing God his Creator. One cannot adore God without loving all men, his creatures. the Decalogue brings man's religious and social life into unity.[/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

Would one who wants to be judged by God on the basis of their conformity to the ten commandments expect to find a verdict of "innocent"? If not then what consequence would be expected if the verdict were "guilty of sin. guilty of offending God. guilty of wickedness. unfit for eternal life. condemned to eternal punishment"? It's a foolish soul that wants to be judged on their own performance.

"By their fruits you shall know them.. NOT everyone who SAYS Lord Lord but he who DOES the will of My Father" Matt 7.

"IT is not the hearers of the LAW that are JUST before God but the DOERS of the LAW will be justiFIED.. on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge" Rom 2:13-16.

The question is not "What do you WISH" the question is "What does the Bible say"??

Originally Posted by mmksparbud

And what is wrong with being judged by the 10 commandments??--They are a barometer of ones love--of our love for man--we won't kill, commit adultery, steal from each other and so on because we love them. .
​

Indeed as Christ said "By their fruits you shall know them"

as James 2 reminds us.

James 2
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.



in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

When the lost person comes to Christ and is justified - fully forgiven they remain saved only so long as they do not revert back and choose loyalty to sin. But if they stumble they can ask for forgiveness - and we "have an advocate with the Father" 1John 2:1.

But if they give up -- no more fight against sin - but rather embracing and defending it and for some even promoting it and arguing against the truth of the Bible -- then they are at war against the Holy Spirit.

 

[MoreCoffee]

In a reply to mmksparbud I wrote:

Would one who wants to be judged by God on the basis of their conformity to the ten commandments expect to find a verdict of "innocent"? If not then what consequence would be expected if the verdict were "guilty of sin. guilty of offending God. guilty of wickedness. unfit for eternal life. condemned to eternal punishment"? It's a foolish soul that wants to be judged on their own performance. Perhaps everybody is afraid of being judged by God on the baiss of their personal conformity to the demands of the ten commandments.

BobRyan replied:

"By their fruits you shall know them.. NOT everyone who SAYS Lord Lord but he who DOES the will of My Father" Matt 7.

"IT is not the hearers of the LAW that are JUST before God but the DOERS of the LAW will be justiFIED.. on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge" Rom 2:13-16.

The question is not "What do you WISH" the question is "What does the Bible say"??

... <snipped some irrelevant material> ...

Do you expect to be judged by God on the basis of your conformity to the ten commandments and have your eternal life or eternal punishment decided on the basis of your conformity to the ten commandments?

 

[BobRyan]

Do you believe the Bible?


James 2
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

 

[MoreCoffee]

...

Do you expect to be judged by God on the basis of your conformity to the ten commandments and have your eternal life or eternal punishment decided on the basis of your conformity to the ten commandments?

Do you believe the Bible?
...

A simple yes or no would suffice

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan replied:



"By their fruits you shall know them.. NOT everyone who SAYS Lord Lord but he who DOES the will of My Father" Matt 7.

"IT is not the hearers of the LAW that are JUST before God but the DOERS of the LAW will be justiFIED.. on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge" Rom 2:13-16.

The question is not "What do you WISH" the question is "What does the Bible say"??

Originally Posted by mmksparbud

And what is wrong with being judged by the 10 commandments??--They are a barometer of ones love--of our love for man--we won't kill, commit adultery, steal from each other and so on because we love them. .
​

Indeed as Christ said "By their fruits you shall know them"

as James 2 reminds us.

James 2
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Indeed that was my reply.

Did you read it???

Do you expect to be judged by God on the basis of your conformity to the ten commandments and have your eternal life or eternal punishment decided on the basis of your conformity to the ten commandments?

Ask the question as if you read the answer.

Do you mean that you think that the judgment in James 2 - no matter how poorly it goes for you - would not get you to the "wages of sin"???

Is that your question?

If you show some glimmer of light as if you read the answer and are refining your question to ask about something that is unclear after the details given from the Bible - then I can focus on the part you claim is not clear.

Like Romans 6

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. 22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.


"By their fruits you shall know them" Matt 7

NOT everyone who SAYS Lord Lord but he who DOES the will of My Father" Matt 7

 

[BobRyan]

Do you believe the Bible?


James 2
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

A simple yes or no would suffice

No in this case you would have to not only say "yes" but also show how the answer in James 2 is missing your question if indeed you think James 2 is insufficient.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Elder 111]

Would one who wants to be judged by God on the basis of their conformity to the ten commandments expect to find a verdict of "innocent"? If not then what consequence would be expected if the verdict were "guilty of sin. guilty of offending God. guilty of wickedness. unfit for eternal life. condemned to eternal punishment"? It's a foolish soul that wants to be judged on their own performance. Perhaps everybody is afraid of being judged by God on the baiss of their personal conformity to the demands of the ten commandments.

What happened to the blood of Christ? It do not cover sins any more?