Christians are not going to be judged by the ten commandments.

[listed]

ok .. that is just about enough of all the laws of grace for me.

I would like to know why Paul speaks to people about the lawless.. we are to judge each other by the law. not the world , they are lost and there is no measure to use for what they promote .

now Pauls says when talking to the churches .

1Ti 1:6
From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;

1Ti 1:7
Desiring to be teachers of the law ( seems law of 'grace' too) ; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

1Ti 1:8
But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

1Ti 1:9
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

1Ti 1:10
For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;( HE IS TALKING TO THE CHURCH)
1Ti 1:11
According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

1Ti 1:12
¶
And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;

1Ti 1:13
Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

1Ti 1:14
And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

1Ti 1:15
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.


He knows that the law is good and vain men use it wrongly.
and the righteous will use it righteously.

REV
Rev 22:11
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

you all can proceed

Er, um, well you did quote 1 Tim 1:9 emphasizing the ungodly part. Do you not know who the righteous are or how they became righteous? It is not by the law easily demonstrable with Enoch, Noah and Abraham. Do you not hear Jesus in John 10? or Paul in Romans 3:21 and Phil 3:9? How did Paul get this righteousness if it was not by his obedience to the law?

 

[NannaNae]

the law brings about obedience, not righteousness.. but man can not be offered righteousness with out a faith that leads to obedience.
God is not mocked as a man sows so shall he reap!!!
God offered the law to his people, not the the world.
it would do the worldly no good.. but to the righteous who with faith helps being about obedience, and obedience bring about more righteousness by the spirit.
the law and righteousness is lost on the disobedient.

1Ti 1:8
But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

only the faithful lawful can use it lawfully.
no it can't bring about righteousness / right standing with the father , only Jesus can do that .
but right standing with out obedience and full of lawless ness is foolishness and faithlessness .. james 1&2

 

[MoreCoffee]

What strikes me as especially strange is that the ten commandments do for the framework of christian moral teaching but always as seen in the light of Christ. So what was once the ministry of death written and engraved upon stone (the stone tablets of the ten commandments and the corresponding stony hearts of the unresponsive and unrepentant) becomes the law of liberty in Christ, a law of love kept alive in the fleshy tablets of human hearts born from above to life in Christ. Saint James spells it out in the passage we looked at earlier in this thread and saint Paul spells it out for his Jewish readers by observing that by works of the law shall no flesh be made just.

The ten commandments are commonly used in conjunction with the new law of Christ to teach christians about ethics and morals. I do not know any christian who despises the ten commandments as if they were evil but I also do not know any christian who wants to be judged on their performance of the ten commandment's demands. Christians know that they come to Christ poor in spiritual good and needing forgiveness and healing. They receive both forgiveness and healing by grace through faith and the message of the gospel starts with grace and continues with grace and ends with grace. There is no room for the law in grace even though the law is a tutor who can lead one to christ. But I am straying from the topic a little. It is enough to say that christians are not going to be judged by their conformity to the ten commandments when they stand before God on the last day. The picture in the original post tells a lie in images that in words would be "Christ will judge you and your worthiness for eternal life will be determined by how well you conformed your life to the ten commandments".

 

[NannaNae]

you are right , Law does not bring life. but obedience and works can reveal true Life.
Romans 6 which I know you know .. but to often in the church today what you says is abused and is a permission to sin. when nothing can be father from the truth if they abuse his grace.
as in the parable of the talents and Mathew 7 21....
if you have no life in your life and no fruit in your fruit he has no choice but to judge you by the law if you have used his name.

 

[NannaNae]

Romans 6 22 but now that you have been set free from sin.. and have become SLAVES OF GOD. the benefit you reap leads ...... to( YES ) holiness , the results will be eternal life..


but only if we are slaves of God.

and gal 6

7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

 

[BobRyan]

You liked BobRyan's post after I had already provided a commentary on the passage in which he was interested. Did you read my post? If not I've quoted it above. Take the time to read it if you like.

I think it was those last two statements ... Because just as Rom 2:13-16 and Rev 14:6-7 show "Gospel Judgment" to come as part of the Gospel - so also does James include the future judgment in his concept of the Gospel.

Originally Posted by BobRyan

No in this case you would have to not only say "yes" but also show how the answer in James 2 is missing your question if indeed you think James 2 is insufficient.


====================

Probably not going to see MC address James 2 as if it mattered... any time soon??

How "odd" since this deals with the OP subject.

=======================================



1. It is true that I do want you to address the detail "11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty."

2. James does not say "if you want to - you can be judged by the Law of liberty" -- as we all know.

that would be a bend-wrench-twist on the text above and of course we would not want to do such a thing.

3. James quotes from the TEN Commandments to argue the point about the LAW that we are all to be judged against.

pretty hard to ignore that "detail".


4. James is not discounting the Gospel -- He is arguing that under the Gospel - under grace, we have the same accountability that we find in 1Cor 6, Romans 6, 1 John 3 -- "These things I write to you that you SIN not" 1 John 2 - because as Christ points out in Matt 7 "By their fruits you shall know them".

Thus no way has been found in your response to negate the text

11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
​

Thus no way has been found in your response to negate the text

11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

James 5
8 You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near. 9 Do not complain, brethren, against one another, so that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing right at the door.

Notice James' argument in James 2 - it is for the works - of obedience in future justification. Not once does james argue "diregard the Commandments of God otherwise you will be held accountable in the judgment" -- and we all know it.

James argues the OPPosite point.

HE says in this chapter - that obedience to the Commandments of God in the OT is "doing well".

And sin/rebellion/law-breaking - is condemnation.

He is not recommending murder in the example he gives below - he is condemning it.


James 2
3 and you pay special attention to the one who is wearing the fine clothes, and say, “You sit here in a good place,” and you say to the poor man, “You stand over there, or sit down by my footstool,” 4 have you not made distinctions among yourselves, and become judges with evil motives?... 8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.
Faith and Works

14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? 15 ...
18 But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” 19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. 20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?

 

[BobRyan]

Romans 6 22 but now that you have been set free from sin.. and have become SLAVES OF GOD. the benefit you reap leads ...... to( YES ) holiness , the results will be eternal life..


but only if we are slaves of God.

and gal 6

7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

Indeed - Romans 6:17-23

Also does not recommend that we break the TEN Commandments

14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace. 15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?



17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. 22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[BobRyan]

What strikes me as especially strange is that the ten commandments do for the framework of christian moral teaching but always as seen in the light of Christ. So what was once the ministry of death written and engraved upon stone (the stone tablets of the ten commandments and the corresponding stony hearts of the unresponsive and unrepentant) becomes the law of liberty in Christ, a law of love kept alive in the fleshy tablets of human hearts born from above to life in Christ. ".

That is an affirmation of the TEN Commandments not an attack on them.

Why then join with those here who declare the TEN Commandments to be abolished.

As has been stated many times obedience to the TEN Commandments is possible only for the born-again saved saint Rom 8:5-8. All the appeals here for obedience are in that context.

The gospel includes the future judgment by works - according to Paul in Romans 2:13-16.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[NannaNae]

Please quote some examples. It is very hard to eat pudding that does not exist.

1Co 6:1
¶
Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?

1Co 6:2
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

1Co 6:3
Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

1Co 6:4
If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

1Co 6:5
I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

1Co 6:6
But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.

1Co 6:7
Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?

1Co 6:8
Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.

1Co 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1Co 6:10
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

1Co 6:11
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

1Co 6:12
¶
All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

1Co 6:13
Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.

1Co 6:14
And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.

1Co 6:15
Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.

1Co 6:16
What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

1Co 6:17
But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

1Co 6:18
Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

1Co 6:19
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

1Co 6:20
For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

are you saying that this looks like any , ANY of the so called churches of today, those who use his name ?

 

[listed]

1Co 6:1
¶
Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?

1Co 6:2
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

1Co 6:3
Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

1Co 6:4
If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

1Co 6:5
I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

1Co 6:6
But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.

1Co 6:7
Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?

1Co 6:8
Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.

1Co 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1Co 6:10
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

1Co 6:11
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

1Co 6:12
¶
All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

1Co 6:13
Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.

1Co 6:14
And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.

1Co 6:15
Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.

1Co 6:16
What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

1Co 6:17
But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

1Co 6:18
Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

1Co 6:19
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

1Co 6:20
For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

are you saying that this looks like any , ANY of the so called churches of today, those who use his name ?

I asked you about posters here at CF and you quote some Scripture implying you are talking about 1st century Christians posting all over this board. Wow!! double Wow!!

 

[Elder 111]

When one is condemning others using the Law (10 commandments) then one has to use it as their standard of righteousness on judgment day and then some deduce that one is guilty via the Law and because one is guilty then those who did not even entertain keeping the Law are essentially accused of hatred of it.
The problem is that they are jumping to a conclusion in that the Law is the standard of righteousness for Christians in the first place because if it is not (as we believe) then it cannot be used to judge us and thus by not keeping it we are not seen as hating it or God because we ARE considered righteous apart from the Law.

You are righteous apart from the law so you can steal and lie? NO!! So if you steal you will be judge for that would you not be?

 

[Sophrosyne]

You are righteous apart from the law so you can steal and lie? NO!! So if you steal you will be judge for that would you not be?

Why do I need someone else's law to tell me how to be righteous when Jesus and several other authors of the New Testament tell me my commandment is to love my neighbor and if I do that I won't be stealing and going around being a liar and deceiver? The problem here again is that just because we happen to be seen as in obedience to some of the Law of the Bible doesn't mean that it is our standard as Christians for righteousness. The fact is the Law never was our standard as Gentiles we are outside of it one has to become circumcized and Paul deals very adamantly with that notion to the point of calling forth the council of Jerusalem and having James and Peter in agreement to not bind ANY Gentile to the Mosaic Law which includes the 10 commandments.

 

[Sophrosyne]

You are righteous apart from the law so you can steal and lie? NO!! So if you steal you will be judge for that would you not be?

Why would someone commanded to love their neighbor wish to go around stealing and telling them lies?

 

[MoreCoffee]

so you're telling me that the way paul taught is different than that shown in the old testament scriptures?

Yes, of course. Saint Paul taught that the gentles are the inheritors of all the promises of God as well as faithful Jews. He also taught that circumcision is not required of the faithful. No animal sacrifices. And most relevant of all, one is just before God without deeds of the law.

 

[Sophrosyne]

We constantly see that those who are in compliance with parts of the Law here are told they are "keeping it" and must keep it all. I ask those people if Muslims are in compliance with even one of the 10 commandments does that make them Christians or Jews because of that and bound to the Law? Muslims do accept parts of the Old Testament and New Testament just as (seemingly) the pro-Law group here.

 

[BobRyan]

The RCC specifically addresses the question of whether the TEN Commandments have been abolished.

[FONT=&quot]2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.13 They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus 14 and Deuteronomy.15 Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words,"16 but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2063.... the words of the Decalogue remain likewise for us Christians. Far from being abolished, they have received amplification and development from the fact of the coming of the Lord in the flesh.26[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christiansand that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot](Application in James 2)
2069 The Decalogue forms a coherent whole. Each "word" refers to each of the others and to all of them; they reciprocally condition one another. the two tables shed light on one another; they form an organic unity. To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.30 One cannot honor another person without blessing God his Creator. One cannot adore God without loving all men, his creatures. the Decalogue brings man's religious and social life into unity.[/FONT]

 

[MoreCoffee]

By the way, mmksparbud, the section from the CCC actually says

. THE CHURCH IS ONE

"The sacred mystery of the Church's unity" (UR 2)

813 The Church is one because of her source: "the highest exemplar and source of this mystery is the unity, in the Trinity of Persons, of one God, the Father and the Son in the Holy Spirit."259 The Church is one because of her founder: for "the Word made flesh, the prince of peace, reconciled all men to God by the cross, . . . restoring the unity of all in one people and one body."260 The Church is one because of her "soul": "It is the Holy Spirit, dwelling in those who believe and pervading and ruling over the entire Church, who brings about that wonderful communion of the faithful and joins them together so intimately in Christ that he is the principle of the Church's unity."261 Unity is of the essence of the Church:

What an astonishing mystery! There is one Father of the universe, one Logos of the universe, and also one Holy Spirit, everywhere one and the same; there is also one virgin become mother, and I should like to call her "Church."262

814 From the beginning, this one Church has been marked by a great diversity which comes from both the variety of God's gifts and the diversity of those who receive them. Within the unity of the People of God, a multiplicity of peoples and cultures is gathered together. Among the Church's members, there are different gifts, offices, conditions, and ways of life. "Holding a rightful place in the communion of the Church there are also particular Churches that retain their own traditions."263 The great richness of such diversity is not opposed to the Church's unity. Yet sin and the burden of its consequences constantly threaten the gift of unity. and so the Apostle has to exhort Christians to "maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace."264

815 What are these bonds of unity? Above all, charity "binds everything together in perfect harmony."265 But the unity of the pilgrim Church is also assured by visible bonds of communion:
- profession of one faith received from the Apostles;
-common celebration of divine worship, especially of the sacraments;
- apostolic succession through the sacrament of Holy Orders, maintaining the fraternal concord of God's family.266

816 "The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savoir, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it.... This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him."267

The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God."268​

 

[Sophrosyne]

I have yet to see any Law promoter discuss what it means to fulfill the Law with some reasonable explanation as to what fulfilling means that equates the the actual definition of the word as applied to law.

 

[mmksparbud]

By the way, mmksparbud, the section from the CCC actually says

. THE CHURCH IS ONE

"The sacred mystery of the Church's unity" (UR 2)

813 The Church is one because of her source: "the highest exemplar and source of this mystery is the unity, in the Trinity of Persons, of one God, the Father and the Son in the Holy Spirit."259 The Church is one because of her founder: for "the Word made flesh, the prince of peace, reconciled all men to God by the cross, . . . restoring the unity of all in one people and one body."260 The Church is one because of her "soul": "It is the Holy Spirit, dwelling in those who believe and pervading and ruling over the entire Church, who brings about that wonderful communion of the faithful and joins them together so intimately in Christ that he is the principle of the Church's unity."261 Unity is of the essence of the Church:

What an astonishing mystery! There is one Father of the universe, one Logos of the universe, and also one Holy Spirit, everywhere one and the same; there is also one virgin become mother, and I should like to call her "Church."262

814 From the beginning, this one Church has been marked by a great diversity which comes from both the variety of God's gifts and the diversity of those who receive them. Within the unity of the People of God, a multiplicity of peoples and cultures is gathered together. Among the Church's members, there are different gifts, offices, conditions, and ways of life. "Holding a rightful place in the communion of the Church there are also particular Churches that retain their own traditions."263 The great richness of such diversity is not opposed to the Church's unity. Yet sin and the burden of its consequences constantly threaten the gift of unity. and so the Apostle has to exhort Christians to "maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace."264

815 What are these bonds of unity? Above all, charity "binds everything together in perfect harmony."265 But the unity of the pilgrim Church is also assured by visible bonds of communion:
- profession of one faith received from the Apostles;
-common celebration of divine worship, especially of the sacraments;
- apostolic succession through the sacrament of Holy Orders, maintaining the fraternal concord of God's family.266

816 "The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it.... This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him."267

The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God."268​

Well, thank you! I just copied and pasted exactly what it showed on the Catechism, (I have a shortcut on my desktop)--Now, how does adding all the rest of that make the meaning any different? It still reads "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church ALONE, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained." It doesn't change the meaning of this any either "this church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in the Catholic Church"--

 

[BobRyan]

I have yet to see any Law promoter discuss what it means to fulfill the Law with some reasonable explanation as to what fulfilling means that equates the the actual definition of the word as applied to law.

James talks about it in James 2.

Paul talks about it in Eph 6:1-2, Romans 13.

John in 1 John 5:1-4.