The thief on the cross died under the Old Covenant, not the New
The thief died believing the gospel.
Oh I don't know TW, this much seems possible, doesn't it?
John 5
24 "He who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life".
Even if He didn't, I'm pretty sure He'd still know, wouldn't He (considering He's the One who justifies us ).
In Christ,
David
John 6
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent".
As far as "proof" goes, that's for us, for our assurance .. e.g. 2 Corinthians 13:5; cf James 2:24. God knows our hearts .. cf Psalms 139:1-6
What is the essence of your theology? What can it be reduced to? What is the most important thing about what you believe?
What gospel would you share with a sinner with only 15 minutes left to live?
Only if it is.If someone only became accepting of our faith because death is staring them at their face (same thing as someone putting a gun to their head). Would that be a genuine repentance?
The gospel does not teach 'death bed salvation'. Was this man already a Christian or not? If not, depending on this man's mental/physical condition, it may be too late for him.
If anyone tried that with someone I love they would soon be shown the door.
The first priority when someone is dying is to look after that person, not to salve our own conscience by vomiting our own personal gospel all over them.
I would not attempt to manipulate a dying person. If he or she asked I would answer. If not I would keep quiet and pray. I might ask if they are capable of replying, is there anything you want? Anyone you want to see? Do you want to say a prayer? No more than that.
If they said yes to the prayer it would be the Lord's Prayer.
God doesn't need me to do anything else; the Holy Spirit is perfectly capable of doing whatever he thinks right, quietly and peacefully in that person's heart.
The thief on the cross died under the Old Covenant, not the New
No he did not die under the OT it became the new covenant because Jesus was paying the price and Jesus promised him. Jesus is not a liar. Jesus made a covenant right there and then. Today you will be with me in paradise.
Paul said to work out your own salvation so God works in those that obey Him and those who were never Christians cannot, on their death bed moments from dying, work out their salvation.God can work at any point in any person's life. The point is that it is God doing the work, not us.
I cannot show you what does not exist, that is, I cannot show you where the NT gospel teaches death bed salvation when it doesn't. Can you show/prove that it does?May we all have a look at that teaching? Chapter and verse?
Can you show me where the disobedient receives God's grace and be saved anyway?You don't know the limits of God's grace. Fortunately.
The gospel does not teach 'death bed salvation'.
Furthermore can you prove the thief was not of those baptized in Mark 1:5, was a disciple of Christ, later falls into a life of crime and repents of that sin?
If you claim the NT gospel teaches death bed salvation, then you prove your own assertion by showing where it does.
But I said nothing about offending anyone; I spoke of caring for the dying person appropriately. As will be clear from my posts, I am not at all averse to offending sanctimonious people.
If someone only became accepting of our faith because death is staring them at their face (same thing as someone putting a gun to their head). Would that be a genuine repentance? It's probably not.
I've been in this situation as I've cared for a few dying folks considering my unit has a few hospice scatter beds (I'm a nurse). I cannot convince anyone of anything. By the time one is dying they are generally set in their ways. Actually- quite a few folks are not interactive when they are in the process of dying. It is up to their own convictions and God calling them to Himself at that point. I care for them. I silently pray for them. If they express a want or need for anything spiritual- I help them by calling the Chaplain (but this is something that generally occurs well before they are in their last moments). I've heard of a deathbed baptism at the hospital recently- but it was the patient's family that wanted it. I'm not certain the dying individual was concerned about this at all or even aware of what was going on.I would not attempt to manipulate a dying person. If he or she asked I would answer. If not I would keep quiet and pray. I might ask if they are capable of replying, is there anything you want? Anyone you want to see? Do you want to say a prayer? No more than that.
If they said yes to the prayer it would be the Lord's Prayer.
God doesn't need me to do anything else; the Holy Spirit is perfectly capable of doing whatever he thinks right, quietly and peacefully in that person's heart.
Sureeeee.... the second covenant wasn't enacted until Jesus was dead (and had risen)
“Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant. For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established. For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive.”
Hebrews 9:15-17 ESV
The thief on the cross who repented was on his deathbed.
That's a fallacious argument. You make the positive assertion and demand that your opponent prove you wrong. The onus is always on the one making the positive assertion, or I could claim limitless things that you could never disprove. You have no reason at all to believe that the thief was ever baptized, and that's all the rebuttal anyone ever needs to give you.
The thief on the cross.
In fifteen minutes, that dying person is a lump of compost. You would waste every last minute of that tending to needs that amount to nothing in as little as one second later. The appropriateness of an act of futility is nothing compared to at least addressing the person's afterlife, which is about the only thing left of any relevance at all. I see no reason to worry excessively about making polite conversation to a lump of compost.
By the way, with no offence intended, I have never yet seen someone call another person sanctimonious (self-righteous) who was not guilty of that very thing.
Death is staring you in the face right now. Is your acceptance invalid? Whether it's fifteen years or fifteen minutes, it's only a matter of degree. I'm terrified by the thought of living less than a thousand years. From the perspective of the angels, you're practically going to die tomorrow.
As far as the matter of proof is concerned, don't confuse the proof of the matter with the reality of the matter. There are many truths that can never be proved but are no less real.
You should study Hebrews 9 in it's entirety and in context. You should also study all the passages. Surely you are free to believe what you want but I think after doing an honest study you may change your view based on scripture.
Was the Thief on the Cross Saved Under the Old Covenant or New? | Dane's Place
Hebrews 9:15-17 - The New Covenant is Now In Force