Can Your Christianity Help a Dying Man?

TheSeabass

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An argument from silence? Not gonna fly.


Let's be honest, this is another thread in another attempt to get around the fact God requires water baptism to be saved. Therefore it is ASSUMED the thief was saved yet not baptized. You have not proved your assumption.
 
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timewerx

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As far as the matter of proof is concerned, don't confuse the proof of the matter with the reality of the matter. There are many truths that can never be proved but are no less real.

I'm not saying it's totally impossible. I'm only saying I wouldn't bet on it.

Remember on the cross there are two thieves with Jesus on the cross. One got saved. Jesus didn't even bother to try to save the other one.
 
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TheSeabass

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The thief on the cross who repented was on his deathbed.



That's a fallacious argument. You make the positive assertion and demand that your opponent prove you wrong. The onus is always on the one making the positive assertion, or I could claim limitless things that you could never disprove. You have no reason at all to believe that the thief was ever baptized, and that's all the rebuttal anyone ever needs to give you.



The thief on the cross.

The thief is not a valid argument.


nonaeroterraqueous said:
In fifteen minutes, that dying person is a lump of compost. You would waste every last minute of that tending to needs that amount to nothing in as little as one second later. The appropriateness of an act of futility is nothing compared to at least addressing the person's afterlife, which is about the only thing left of any relevance at all. I see no reason to worry excessively about making polite conversation to a lump of compost.

By the way, with no offence intended, I have never yet seen someone call another person sanctimonious (self-righteous) who was not guilty of that very thing.



Probably not means possibly so. That's enough reason to try.

Death is staring you in the face right now. Is your acceptance invalid? Whether it's fifteen years or fifteen minutes, it's only a matter of degree. I'm terrified by the thought of living less than a thousand years. From the perspective of the angels, you're practically going to die tomorrow.

As far as the matter of proof is concerned, don't confuse the proof of the matter with the reality of the matter. There are many truths that can never be proved but are no less real.

For salvation, Christ requires that one:
hear the gospel, Romans 10:17
believe John 8:24
repent Luke 13:3
confess Matthew 10:32-33
be baptized Mark 16:16
live faithfully keeping Christ's works Revelation 2:10.26

The OP gave no specifics about this dying man. If the dying man can obey what Christ said he can be saved, if not he will be lost.

This thread is about men trying to change what Christ requires for salvation, nothing more.
 
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ByTheSpirit

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Case in point, God does not save us through grace. God saves us because of our faith. It is an act of grace that grants salvation to those who believe. Believing in the biblical sense ALWAYS carries the idea of obedience and working out your faith.

By faith Abraham offered Isaac (an act that displayed faith)

By faith Rahab sent the spies (an act that displayed faith)

By faith Moses stayed with the Israelites (an act that displayed faith)

Faith is ALWAYS evidenced by works. It is not works that save in themselves though for if works are not backed by faith then the works do not save either. It is your faith WORKING that matters. Where have I read that before.. oh yeah

Galatians 5:6
In Christ Jesus all that matters is FAITH WORKING through LOVE
 
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Pappy&Me

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Here's the shocker, how can you prove that you believe in Jesus at the death bed??

John 14:12
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

You simply can't at the deathbed. It's far too late.

Luke 16:31
31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Tell that to the thief on the cross with Jesus. I think you can repent at any time.
 
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Hammster

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Paul said to work out your own salvation so God works in those that obey Him and those who were never Christians cannot, on their death bed moments from dying, work out their salvation.
He didn't say that an essential doctrine to be justified.
 
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Hammster

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Let's be honest, this is another thread in another attempt to get around the fact God requires water baptism to be saved. Therefore it is ASSUMED the thief was saved yet not baptized. You have not proved your assumption.
I didn't realize it was the purpose. But no, water baptism isn't required to be justified.
 
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Catherineanne

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Sorry but if you loved them you would want them saved for eternity not comforted on their way to hell.

Who says I have to save them? Am I the Holy Spirit? Nope.

However much I happen to love that person (and the OP said nothing at all about love, tbh), God loves them a whole lot more. Really, your concept of God seems to be somewhat lacking; it is not up to me to convert anyone.
 
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2Timothy2:15

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Who says I have to save them? Am I the Holy Spirit? Nope.

However much I happen to love that person (and the OP said nothing at all about love, tbh), God loves them a whole lot more. Really, your concept of God seems to be somewhat lacking; it is not up to me to convert anyone.

If you think I suggest you or anyone saves anyone you missed the point entirely. We preach the gospel. Unbelievable really. I do not have a "concept" of God, I have a relationship, there is the difference I suppose.
 
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Tree of Life

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What is the essence of your theology? What can it be reduced to? What is the most important thing about what you believe?

What gospel would you share with a sinner with only 15 minutes left to live?

I would tell the man with 15 minutes left to live: "Be good, dude! Be kind to others."
 
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jimmyjimmy

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Sureeeee.... the second covenant wasn't enacted until Jesus was dead (and had risen)

“Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant. For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established. For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:15-17‬ ‭ESV‬‬

Yup. Jesus died for the thief on the cross.

From the moment Jesus' ministry began, He was ushering the new. He did many things that demonstrated the new had come. I think we must see the three years of His ministry as a bit of both. The old was fading away, and the new was coming into view.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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Let's be honest, this is another thread in another attempt to get around the fact God requires water baptism to be saved. Therefore it is ASSUMED the thief was saved yet not baptized. You have not proved your assumption.

It's my thread, and I can tell you unequivocally that thought never entered my mind.
 
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sdowney717

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I've been in this situation as I've cared for a few dying folks considering my unit has a few hospice scatter beds (I'm a nurse). I cannot convince anyone of anything. By the time one is dying they are generally set in their ways. Actually- quite a few folks are not interactive when they are in the process of dying. It is up to their own convictions and God calling them to Himself at that point. I care for them. I silently pray for them. If they express a want or need for anything spiritual- I help them by calling the Chaplain (but this is something that generally occurs well before they are in their last moments). I've heard of a deathbed baptism at the hospital recently- but it was the patient's family that wanted it. I'm not certain the dying individual was concerned about this at all or even aware of what was going on.

Today your right, dying people in a hospice setting at the point of death, are not responsive.
Without modern drugs and care they would have died long before they reached such a state.

Some people though comatose who have recovered say they could hear what was being said.
In older days, people may have been close to death and been converted as there were aware and could converse with another person, they were still lucid and died soon after.
 
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JESUS=G.O.A.T

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What is the essence of your theology? What can it be reduced to? What is the most important thing about what you believe that you would want to convey to anyone, especially someone with little time left on this earth?

What would you share about Christianity with a person who had only has a few hours left to live?
Salvation if they only had a few hours to live.

There's this big pentecostal church nearby and i'm good friends with the youth pastor there so we meet up sometimes. He told me a story about how recently they were able to baptized and pray a man into receiving the holy spirit at I believe 99 years old, he died not long after but yeah now he can die in peace.
 
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St_Worm2

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99 years old. WOW, PTL :)

Many of the posts in this thread remind me of this Parable, yours (which shows us that its never too late) and others who complain that it is. The Lord will be glorified by those who come to Him at the 11th hour of their lives, and they will enjoy the same eternal blessings as those who came in the 3rd hour (because such is the grace of God, yes :)).

Laborers in the Vineyard

Matthew 20

1 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard.
2 When he had agreed with the laborers for a denarius for the day, he sent them into his vineyard.
3 And he went out about the third hour and saw others standing idle in the market place;
4 and to those he said, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will give you.’ And so they went.
5 Again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did the same thing.
6 And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing around; and he said to them, ‘Why have you been standing here idle all day long?’
7 They said to him, ‘Because no one hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You go into the vineyard too.’
8 “When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the laborers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last group to the first.’
9 When those hired about the eleventh hour came, each one received a denarius.
10 When those hired first came, they thought that they would receive more; but each of them also received a denarius.
11 When they received it, they grumbled at the landowner,
12 saying, ‘These last men have worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the scorching heat of the day.’
13 But he answered and said to one of them, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong; did you not agree with me for a denarius?
14 ‘Take what is yours and go, but I wish to give to this last man the same as to you.
15 ‘Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with what is my own? Or is your eye envious because I am generous?’
16 So the last shall be first, and the first last.”

--David
 
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