Can you really live by Sola Scriptura?

[chevyontheriver]

Papal supremacy - Wikipedia So this is wrong?

Papal supremacy says the pope can act as pastor anywhere. Says nothing about being 'over' Scripture. Does your Senior Pastor have authority over Scripture? So too the pope doesn't.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Yes, and we know what He commanded whereas, going by Scripture alone, error is all too common, resulting in obeying man, his/her opinions.

You have it back the front. Going by scripture alone means going by what God's Word says alone and believing and following what Gods' Word says. That is Christ is the head of the church *Ephesians 5:23. According to the scriptures believing in Gods' Word alone is not error it the truth of God *Romans 3:4; John 17:17 that saves us *Romans 10:17; 1 John 5:4; John 3:36 and the standard of what is right and what is wrong, what is truth *Romans 3:4; John 17:17 and what is error. It is the following of man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God and disobey Gods' Word that is error that is all too common resulting in obeying man and his/her opinions according to Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9. Peter also agreeing with what Jesus says in Acts of the Apostles 5:29.

 

[fhansen]

You have it back the front. Going by scripture alone means going by what God's Word says alone and believing and following what Gods' Word says. According to the scriptures believing in Gods' Word alone is not error it the truth of God *John 17:17 that saves us *Romans 10:17; 1 John 5:4; John 3:36 and the standard of what is right and what is wrong, what is truth *Romans 3:4; John 17:17 and what is error. It is the following of man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God and disobey Gods' Word that is error that is all too common resulting in obeying man and his/her opinions according to Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9. Peter also agreeing in Acts of the Apostles 5:29.

Pure guess-work. Again, you have no more reason to think that Scripture is God's word than you to believe that the unwritten practices and beliefs of the Church are also God's Word, received at the beginning. The eastern and western ancient churches and the ECFs are virtually unanimous on what it takes to please God-to be justified- including the sacraments that reflect that same theology, along with their reliance on Tradition to begin with as the second stream of revelation. Sorry, but you just can't make up stuff as you go along, or listen to leaders with their extra-biblical revelations and historical speculations if you expect to know the truth. For that, one must also rely on the ones who were "there" at the beginning.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ You have it back the front. Going by scripture alone means going by what God's Word says alone and believing and following what Gods' Word says. According to the scriptures believing in Gods' Word alone is not error it the truth of God *John 17:17 that saves us *Romans 10:17; 1 John 5:4; John 3:36 and the standard of what is right and what is wrong, what is truth *Romans 3:4; John 17:17 and what is error. It is the following of man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God and disobey Gods' Word that is error that is all too common resulting in obeying man and his/her opinions according to Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9. Peter also agreeing in Acts of the Apostles 5:29.

Your response here...

Pure guess-work. Again, you have no more reason to think that Scripture is God's word than you to believe that the unwritten practices and beliefs of the Church are also God's Word, received at the beginning. The eastern and western ancient churches and the ECFs are virtually unanimous on what it takes to please God-to be justified- including the sacraments that reflect that same theology, along with their reliance on Tradition to begin with as the second stream of revelation. Sorry, but you just can't make up stuff as you go along, or listen to leaders with their extra-biblical revelations and historical speculations if you expect to know the truth. For that, one must also rely on the ones who were "there" at the beginning.

No guess work needed. God says it as shown by Jesus, Peter, Paul and John in the post you are quoting from. All we need to do is to believe and follow what they say (faith). Why would you think Jesus is not God *John 1:1-4; 14 and that he gave His Words to the Apostles to give to the world *Matthew 28:19-20 (new testament)? Therefore both the old testament scriptures *2 Timothy 3:15-16 and the new testament scriptures are Gods' Word that saves us as we believe and follow them *John 3:36; Matthew 7:21 because it is written we are saved by God's grace through faith *Ephesians 2:8 and that this faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *Romans 10:17. Therefore the scriptures are the only rule of faith. For without faith it is impossible to please God *Hebrews 11:6. For whatsoever is not of faith that comes from believing what Gods' Word says is sin *Romans 14:23

Take Care.

 

[BPPLEE]

where in that document does it say that the Pope is above scripture. He has authority over other people’s opinions on scripture but he is not given carte blanche to contradict scripture.
He does contradict people that propose a scriptural position that is not true, much like Our Lord Jesus did to Satan in the desert, when Satan used scripture to tempt the Lord

He doesn’t even have the authority to change Catholic teaching, only to guard it

You accept scripture AND the authority of the Church. Protestants accept scripture. That's where we differ. You can argue that denominations are loyal to their traditions and that's a valid argument. I'm just saying I'm not Catholic and I believe differently than Catholics. I don't think my view is the only acceptable view. Some people on this forum think theirs is the only acceptable view and everyone else is wrong.

 

[fhansen]

Your response here...

No guess work needed. God says it as shown by John, Peter and Jesus in the post you are quoting from all we need to do is to believe and follow what they say. Why would you think Jesus is not God *John 1:1-4; 14 and that he gave His Words to the Apostles to give to the world *Matthew 28:19-20 (new testament)? Therefore both the old testament scriptures *2 Timothy 3:15 and the new testament scriptures are Gods' Word that saves us as we believe and follow them *John 3:36; Matthew 7:21.

Who said He isn't God? The only difference here is that we listen to all of His counsel.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Who said He isn't God? The only difference here is that we listen to all of His counsel.

Then the new testament scriptures are Gods' Word right? (Jesus and the Apostles) just like the old testament scriptures *2 Timothy 3:15-16. Therefore the old and new testament scriptures are Gods written Word (scripture) that we are to believe and follow by faith that comes from Gods' Word *Romans 10:17. God's Word (scripture) therefore is all of Gods counsel and there is no counsel outside of Gods' Word that is in contradiction to what God's Word says. If our salvation is dependent on believing and following what Gods' Word says (faith) *Ephesians 2:8 then everything leads back to scripture alone (see Hebrews 11:6; Romans 10:17; John 3:36; Matthew 7:21) which is the only rule of faith.

 

[BPPLEE]

and what is the basis for your disagreement?

Was Saint Peter the first pope? | GotQuestions.org is the Protestant version

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You finally played the SDA Sunday card as your ultimate card. Thereby letting all other Protestants know where they stand with you. In vain do they worship. Catholics already knew where we stood with you.

Not sure what you mean, I posted quotes from your church on what really happened with one of God’s commandments. Jesus told us to obey God’s commandments over mans traditions and for me I choose to believe in the teachings of Jesus over a church.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
sola scriptura - means "testing" all doctrine and practice by the Word of God - scripture. As in Acts 17:11

If that's all it means then I'd have no problem at all with it.

Well then I welcome you in joining in the group that views sola scriptura in this way --

As you have noted - the definition of it as stated above is not really all that threatening to any one group since "in theory" every Christian in every group supposedly considers that the doctrines in their specific denomination is in full alignment , full compliance with scripture.

"this" should not be the place where people are dividing and opposing.

But then again all the people who insist that they follow Sola Scriptura would all end up agreeing on everything.

If believing whatever our respective magesterium says where the key to everyone having the same set of doctrines - we would all believe the same thing and agree on the same things.

And that's not happening.

Indeed - both of those methods still have the same "division" result. Since in both cases everyone has free will all the same.

It's more like Sola Scriptura is a cudgel one group uses to bash another group with.

Same thing could be said of any solution that is of the form "just believe whatever doctrine the magesterium of your specific group says is the right set of beliefs"

And the other group uses Sola Scriptura right back as a cudgel to bash the first guys.

Same thing could be said of the result we have today where each "tradition" based group says "our traditions are right - yours are in error. Our magesterium is right your magesterium is in error".

But the objective observer can't help but notice - that given the two solutions - the one with the most likely chance of an independent unbiased rule of truth - is the one that says the Word of God is itself the standard and not each individual's traditions/ magesterium etc.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Now I see more things I disagree with. There is no point in arguing you are sold on the Catholic Church's position. I'm not. I'm willing to accept mine is not the only view. I don't know if you are

Your is an honorable position, but it is not investigated. Who told you that the Scriptures are true? Who compiled and canonized them? Who translated them for you to read? Who defended them through the centuries and millenia to ensure there was no deviation from the faith once delivered to the saints?

The Bible did not appear out of the air, the Catholic Church wrote the Bible. There were so many different gospels back in the early Church that you would not have know what is true unless it was from the Catholic Church.
Paul warned of sectarianism; some say I am of Paul, I am of Apollos, others say I am of Christ. Is Christ divided? God forbid. There is one Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church as stated in the Nicene creed.

I pray that you continue searching and keep your heart open to God. Never feel you have a complete grasp of the scriptures, we can always learn

 

[BobRyan]

Your is an honorable position, but it is not investigated. Who told you that the Scriptures are true?

The same Holy Spirit that inspired the text of 2 Tim 3:16 for the first century NT saints "All scripture is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine, for correction, for instruction"

Even the NON-christians of Acts 17:11 mastered this concept "they studied THE SCRIPTURES daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were SO"

Not the "rocket science" some have proposed that it be

In Luke 24 Jesus condemns his not-yet-fully-christian disciples for being "slow" to believe all that scriptures teach.

Luke 24:
25 Then He said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?” 27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.

Even the non-Christians -- having even less than 66 books - where on the hook according to Christ - and were held responsible for using scripture to test/guide acceptance of good teaching and rejection of error.

Mark 7:
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men—the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

 

[BobRyan]

Here is an exercise for you. Get a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church and tell me anything in there that is unbiblical or antibiblical. There is no contradiction between the magisterial Catholic faith and scripture

If that were its own thread - it would be too massive... you would need to pick one or two things and ask if it is in the Bible or not, or if it is in line with the Bible or not. A thread that was on just one or two doctrines would be pretty full.

 

[fhansen]

God's Word (scripture) therefore is all of Gods counsel

No

and there is no counsel outside of Gods' Word that is in contradiction to what God's Word says.

Yes

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Peter as given the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever he bound on Earth was bound in heaven, whatever he loosed on Earth was loosed in Heaven. God gave him that authority. He did not take it for himself.

For you to ignore that authority, you claim Christ had no right to give it, and should have stuck to your version of the law. Who is ignoring God and obeying men?

The Apostles were told to go into the World and preach the Gospel, not spread Judaism. The best way to teach the Gospel was to proclaim Christs resurrection and the founding of the Church on Pentecost. Those both took place on Sunday, the first day of the week.
Paul withstood Peter to his face in Galatians saying you are a Jew but live as a gentile. Why would he say that? He was probably eating pork and holding Mass on Sundays. Paul then says why should the Gentiles live as Jews.
If you look in Exodus, you will see the Sabbath command was given to the Israelites not the gentiles, and we don’t compel gentiles to live as Jews. The Sabbath is not part of the natural law, it is ceremonial and a shadow of things to come, just as circumcision was, yet circumcision was greater than the Sabbath, as Jews were allowed to break the Sabbath to perform circumcision.

Besides, you know there are Ten Commandments right ? Why doesn’t the SDA keep the teaching on adultery and murder? Their teaching says contraception, which promotes lust is ok, and abortion, which is murder is ok in some circumstances. If they are so emphatic that we must keep all the commandments, why are they lax in those areas?

The Rock the Church is built on is Jesus Christ, not an apostle. 1 Corinthians 10:1-12 I think the Catholic church has rewritten a bit of history.

The Ten Commandments (not just the Sabbath) was given to Israel. Israel is a metaphor to God’s people and in the NT gentiles are grafted in to God’s Israel for those who follow God’s Word. Galatians 3:26-29. That’s why each one of the Ten Commandments has been repeated in the New Covenant for everyday Christian living.

The SDA church promotes all of the Ten Commandments and you will find that in our fundental beliefs. What do Seventh Day Adventists Really Believe? - Adventist.org If you break one of the commandments, you break them all James 2:10-12 so what individuals do or don’t do can’t be hidden from God and we will all have to stand before Jesus on judgement day. 2 Corinthians 2:10. I don’t believe everyone who is an SDA will be saved or that all Catholics are lost. We will all be judged based upon the light that we have, but Jesus is calling us back to worship Him in Truth and Spirit John 4:23-24 and no where in the Holy scriptures tells us we can put aside any of God’s commandments in lieu of mans traditions.

 

[BPPLEE]

Your is an honorable position, but it is not investigated. Who told you that the Scriptures are true? Who compiled and canonized them? Who translated them for you to read? Who defended them through the centuries and millenia to ensure there was no deviation from the faith once delivered to the saints?

The Bible did not appear out of the air, the Catholic Church wrote the Bible. There were so many different gospels back in the early Church that you would not have know what is true unless it was from the Catholic Church.
Paul warned of sectarianism; some say I am of Paul, I am of Apollos, others say I am of Christ. Is Christ divided? God forbid. There is one Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church as stated in the Nicene creed.

I pray that you continue searching and keep your heart open to God. Never feel you have a complete grasp of the scriptures, we can always learn

I am a long way from having a full grasp of the scriptures. You are speaking from what you have been taught. I have been taught something different. I don't believe that I am the only one who is right. There are a lot of things you can disagree about and still be saved.I disagree with some of what you say

 

[boughtwithaprice]

I am a long way from having a full grasp of the scriptures. You are speaking from what you have been taught. I have been taught something different. I don't believe that I am the only one who is right. There are a lot of things you can disagree about and still be saved.

You are an honorable man, may God bless you
Never give up the search, as God promises you will seek Him and you will find Him when you seek Him with all of your heart

 

[boughtwithaprice]

The Rock the Church is built on is Jesus Christ, not an apostle. 1 Corinthians 10:1-12 I think the Catholic church has rewritten a bit of history.

The Ten Commandments (not just the Sabbath) was given to Israel. Israel is a metaphor to God’s people and in the NT gentiles are grafted in to God’s Israel for those who follow God’s Word. Galatians 3:26-29. That’s why each one of the Ten Commandments has been repeated in the New Covenant for everyday Christian living.

The SDA church promotes all of the Ten Commandments and you will find that in our fundental beliefs. What do Seventh Day Adventists Really Believe? - Adventist.org If you break one of the commandments, you break them all James 2:10-12 so what individuals do or don’t do can’t be hidden from God and we will all have to stand before Jesus on judgement day. 2 Corinthians 2:10. I don’t believe everyone who is an SDA will be saved or that all Catholics are lost. We will all be judged based upon the light that we have, but Jesus is calling us back to worship Him in Truth and Spirit John 4:23-24 and no where in the Holy scriptures tells us we can put aside any of God’s commandments in lieu of mans traditions.

I have read the SDA statement of beliefs and other official SDA teaching. It teaches that contraception is ok, even though the scriptures teach us to flee fornication, it even condones plan B and abortifacients as well as using the don’t judge line about outright abortion. I was disappointed. I was expecting more from a group that claims to promote all of the commandments

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I have read the SDA statement of beliefs and other official SDA teaching. It teaches that contraception is ok, even though the scriptures teach us to flee fornication, it even condones plan B and abortifacients as well as using the don’t judge line about outright abortion. I was disappointed. I was expecting more from a group that claims to promote all of the commandments

Misinformation. The SDA Church neither condones abortion or fornication.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Misinformation. The SDA Church neither condones abortion or fornication.

you condone contraception, which is fornication as it is sex for pleasure only. The Catholic Church teaches that contraceptive sex does not consummate a marriage, as the two do not become one flesh and are not joined. They are merely practicing mutual masturbation which is not a holy act. SDA says stewardship trumps following God’s command against lust
As for abortion, they use the cop out line. We don’t condone abortion but we understand if you have to do it (paraphrase)

SDA statement


5. Appropriate methods of birth control. Moral decision making about the choice and use of the various birth control agents must stem from an understanding of their probable effects on physical and emotional health, the manner in which the various agents operate, and the financial expenditure involved. A variety of methods of birth control–including barrier methods, spermicides, and sterilization–prevent conception and are morally acceptable. Some other birth-control methods may prevent the release of the egg (ovulation), may prevent the union of egg and sperm (fertilization), or may prevent attachment of the already fertilized egg (implantation). Because of uncertainty about how they will function in any given instance, they may be morally suspect for people who believe that protectable human life begins at fertilization. However, since the majority of fertilized ova naturally fail to implant or are lost after implantation, even when birth control methods are not being used, hormonal methods of birth control and IUDs, which represent a similar process, may be viewed as morally acceptable. Abortion, the intentional termination of an established pregnancy, is not morally acceptable for purposes of birth control.

6. Misuse of birth control. Though the increased ability to manage fertility and protect against sexually transmitted disease may be useful to many married couples, birth control can be misused. For example, those who would engage in premarital and extramarital sexual relations may more readily indulge in such behaviors because of the availability of birth control methods. The use of such methods to protect sex outside of marriage may reduce the risks of sexually transmitted diseases and/or pregnancy. Sex outside of marriage, however, is both harmful and immoral, whether or not these risks have been diminished.

7. A redemptive approach. The availability of birth-control methods makes education about sexuality and morality even more imperative. Less effort should be put forth in condemnation and more in education and redemptive approaches that seek to allow each individual to be persuaded by the deep movings of the Holy Spirit.

8. Some current examples of these methods include intrauterine devices (IUDs), hormone pills (including the “morning-after pill”), injections, or implants. Questions about these methods should be referred to a medical professional.

This statement was voted during the Annual Council of the General Conference Executive Committee on Wednesday, September 29, 1999 in Silver Spring, Maryland.

RECOMMENDATIONS: USE OF MIFEPRISTONE (RU486)

1. In the treatment of medical conditions, such as cancer, for which RU486 may provide effective therapy, the drug should be used in keeping with relevant laws and established medical science.
2. RU486 is also used for contraception. When the effect of the drug is to prevent fertilization, its use is ethically permissible. Like other oral contraceptives, however, RU486 may sometimes prevent implantation of a fertilized ovum. This is ethically problematic to those who consider this effect to be abortion.
3. When RU486 is used in legally permissible and medically appropriate ways for the purpose of causing abortion, the previously adopted Seventh-day Adventist Guidelines on Abortionshould guide the practice.

This recommendation was voted by the Christian View of Human Life Committee at Pine Springs Ranch, California, April 10-12, 1994, and was voted by the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists Administrative Committee (ADCOM), Silver Spring, Maryland, July 26, 1994.


You refuse to condemn birth control which is refusal to restrain lust, and you don’t care if the birth control kills a baby because most fertilized eggs die anyway.
That is a statement unbecoming one that purports to keep all the commandments


Statement on abortion


While not condoning abortion, the Church and its members are called to follow the example of Jesus, being “full of grace and truth” (John 1:14), to (1) create an atmosphere of true love and provide grace-filled, biblical pastoral care and loving support to those facing difficult decisions regarding abortion


Translation, by our non judgement of you, we condone abortion. You can’t have it both ways
That position does not lead souls to repentance, but keeps members so they don’t “feel condemned”. The Catholic Church automatically excommunicates those that obtain and assist in an abortion. They can seek forgiveness but that requires repentance and acceptance of the evil they have done