Can you really live by Sola Scriptura?

[Valletta]

I understand what your saying but Catholics did not give anyone the scriptures. The scriptures were given by God through His prophets and Apostles and were already in circulation among all Church's outside of the Roman Catholic Church in all Church's. God is in control of His Word and has given His Word to everyone who seeks to know it. We can only have a personal relationship with Jesus through faith in His Word and as Jesus says not through following man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from Gods' Word to break the commandments of God *Matthew 15:3-9. (See list of Roman Catholic teaching and traditions that are not biblical here linked). Happy to work through the linked list if your interested and show why these teachings are not biblical and lead us away from Gods' Word if your interested. "Penance" is already started here and here linked.

Take Care.

As I've said, the Holy Spirit worked through the Catholic Church. Bibles did not just appear one day, the prayerful process of the Catholic Church choosing the books of the Bible spanned centuries. Early Catholics eventually incorporated the Gospels and other text as readings at the mass, of course once those books were written. Many texts were in circulation, but there were differences in readings at mass from area to area. So at one point the Catholic Church set out to determine which texts were God-breathed and which were not. The Catholic Church process of choosing the 73 books of the Bible spanned centuries. Saint Athanasius is credited with the first Biblical canon (NT) containing the same books in the same order we use today. The list is contained in his Thirty-Ninth Festal Letter of 367 A.D. This list was approved by Pope Damasus, and formally approved of by Councils at Hippo and Carthage in the late 300s. Pope Innocent I wrote a letter to the Bishop of Toulouse in 405 A.D. containing the list. The list was re-affirmed at Carthage in 419 A.D., by the Council of Florence 1442 A.D., and by the Council of Trent in 1546 A.D. As I've said, Catholics are not Sola Scriptura, but any texts that did not 100 percent agree with Catholic teaching were rejected.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

As I've said, the Holy Spirit worked through the Catholic Church. Bibles did not just appear one day, the prayerful process of the Catholic Church choosing the books of the Bible spanned centuries. Early Catholics eventually incorporated the Gospels and other text as readings at the mass, of course once those books were written. Many texts were in circulation, but there were differences in readings at mass from area to area. So at one point the Catholic Church set out to determine which texts were God-breathed and which were not. The Catholic Church process of choosing the 73 books of the Bible spanned centuries. Saint Athanasius is credited with the first Biblical canon (NT) containing the same books in the same order we use today. The list is contained in his Thirty-Ninth Festal Letter of 367 A.D. This list was approved by Pope Damasus, and formally approved of by Councils at Hippo and Carthage in the late 300s. Pope Innocent I wrote a letter to the Bishop of Toulouse in 405 A.D. containing the list. The list was re-affirmed at Carthage in 419 A.D., by the Council of Florence 1442 A.D., and by the Council of Trent in 1546 A.D. As I've said, Catholics are not Sola Scriptura, but any texts that did not 100 percent agree with Catholic teaching were rejected.

As posted earlier I understand what your saying but Catholics did not give anyone the scriptures. The scriptures were given by God through His prophets and Apostles and were already in circulation among all Church's outside of the Roman Catholic Church in all Church's. God is in control of His Word and has given His Word to everyone who seeks to know it. We can only have a personal relationship with Jesus through faith in His Word and as Jesus says not through following man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from Gods' Word to break the commandments of God *Matthew 15:3-9. (See list of Roman Catholic teaching and traditions that are not biblical here linked). Happy to work through the linked list if your interested and show why these teachings are not biblical and lead us away from Gods' Word if your interested. "Penance" is already started here and here linked.

Take Care

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Sola scriptura was invented at the reformation.

Jesus sent out His Apostles to 'preach' the good news.

Through 1,500 years this carried on, via Sacred Scripture AND Sacred Tradition. It is very much alive today, in the Catholic church.

Even when the scriptures were assembled into the Canon that we have today, via the Holy Spirit, working in and through the Catholic church, into the Bible, people still had to be preached to.

It is only since the birth of Protestantism that we now have 1,000's of denominations, using 'sola scriptura' to teach a multitude of different interpretations, views, opinions, beliefs on what God is telling us in His written word!

Its a complete mess now. God's word has different meanings to different denominations! They all think only 'they' know the truth.

Actually not really. Sola Scriptura (scripture alone) has been around since the beginning of time. According to the scriptures, eternal life is only received by faith in Gods' Word *John 3:36, not by following man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God *Matthew 15:3-9. Therefore we can only live by the scriptures alone *Matthew 4:4. That is by believing and following what Gods Word says *1 John 5:2-4; John 17:17. This is why the scriptures are the only rule of faith as to what is true and what is not true *Romans 3:4 and why the bible alone is a lamp unto our feet and a light unto our path when the road is dark and narrow *Psalms 119:105; Proverbs 6:23. This begs the question how can we find our way when the road is dark and narrow our lamp goes out *Matthew 7:13-14? Jesus says if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God we are not worshiping God in Matthew 15:3-9. According to Jesus we worship God in Spirit and in truth by believing and following what His Word says *John 4:23-24. God's people are in every Church according to John 10:16 but the house is coming and now is that the true worshipers will worship the farther in Spirit and in truth. God is calling us all where ever we might be to return to His Word *John 17:17; Revelation 18:1-6; Revelation 14:7-12.

Take Care

 

[Valletta]

Actually not really. Sola Scriptura (scripture alone) has been around since the beginning of time.

Sola Scriptura has not been around since the beginning of time, nor did Jesus command his disciples to hand out Bibles.
Romans 10:14-17
Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition
14 But how are men to call upon him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher? 15 And how can men preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach good news!” 16 But they have not all heeded the gospel; for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” 17 So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ.

 

[Lost4words]

Actually not really. Sola Scriptura (scripture alone) has been around since the beginning of time. According to the scriptures, eternal life is only received by faith in Gods' Word *John 3:36, not by following man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God *Matthew 15:3-9. Therefore we can only live by the scriptures alone *Matthew 4:4. That is by believing and following what Gods Word says *1 John 5:2-4; John 17:17. This is why the scriptures are the only rule of faith as to what is true and what is not true *Romans 3:4 and why the bible alone is a lamp unto our feet and a light unto our path when the road is dark and narrow *Psalms 119:105; Proverbs 6:23. This begs the question how can we find our way when the road is dark and narrow our lamp goes out *Matthew 7:13-14? Jesus says if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God we are not worshiping God in Matthew 15:3-9. According to Jesus we worship God in Spirit and in truth by believing and following what His Word says *John 4:23-24. God's people are in every Church according to John 10:16 but the house is coming and now is that the true worshipers will worship the farther in Spirit and in truth. God is calling us all where ever we might be to return to His Word *John 17:17; Revelation 18:1-6; Revelation 14:7-12.

Take Care

Interpretation, interpretation, interpretation....

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Interpretation, interpretation, interpretation....

Yes it is always about interpretation which is why we need Gods' Spirit to guide us and teach us what His Word says and not trust in the teachings and traditions of men that lead us away from God and His Words as Jesus points out in Matthew 15:3-9.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Sola Scriptura has not been around since the beginning of time, nor did Jesus command his disciples to hand out Bibles.
Romans 10:14-17
Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition
14 But how are men to call upon him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher? 15 And how can men preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach good news!” 16 But they have not all heeded the gospel; for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” 17 So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ.

Great so you now believe in scripture alone. Good move. You cannot preach Christ without preaching Gods' Word as Jesus is the living Word of God that has given us His spoken and written words that come through the scriptures. This is why it is written faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God - Romans 10:17.

Take Care.

 

[Valletta]

Great so you now believe in scripture alone. Good move. You cannot preach Christ without preaching Gods' Word as Jesus is the living Word of God that has given us His spoken and written words that come through the scriptures. This is why it is written faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God - Romans 10:17. Take Care.

Of course not. The Word of God is both oral and written. Some of the Word of God comes through the Holy Scriptures--written form. We are to stand firm to the word of God whether the Word of God is transmitted orally or through Holly Scripture, this actually is stated in Holy Scripture:
2 Thessalonians 2:15

Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition
15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.

Your claim that Holy Scripture existed from the beginning of time is incorrect.

 

[Lost4words]

Yes it is always about interpretation which is why we need Gods' Spirit to guide us and teach us what His Word says and not trust in the teachings and traditions of men that lead us away from God and His Words as Jesus points out in Matthew 15:3-9.

Give 50 people a few verses from scripture and ask them to 'interpret' them and you will more than likely get many different interpretations!

This is what sola scriptura does. This is why it is false and a 'modern' invention!

Hundreds of thousands of people claiming only they know the truth, they know what God's word is telling us! Which one is right?

I will stick with what the church of Jesus teaches. The Catholic church. The only church that can trace its roots all the way back to the Apostles, to Peter.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Sola Scriptura has not been around since the beginning of time, nor did Jesus command his disciples to hand out Bibles.
Romans 10:14-17
Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition
14 But how are men to call upon him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher? 15 And how can men preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach good news!” 16 But they have not all heeded the gospel; for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” 17 So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ.

Sorry I do not believe you and even the very scriptures you quote disagree with you but let me explain why if it might be helpful. Here is a question for you so think it through. If the scriptures teach us that "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God" (Romans 10:17) and we are saved by God's grace through faith that comes from Gods' Word (Ephesians 2:8-9) and again whatsoever is not of faith is sin according to Gods' Word (Romans 14:23) and again without faith that comes from Gods' Word it is impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6) how can we have Gods' salvation and how can the scriptures not be the only rule of faith we are to live by when our faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God?

I bet I hear silence and this post and question is ignored...

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Give 50 people a few verses from scripture and ask them to 'interpret' them and you will more than likely get many different interpretations!

This is what sola scriptura does. This is why it is false and a 'modern' invention!

Hundreds of thousands of people claiming only they know the truth, they know what God's word is telling us! Which one is right?

I will stick with what the church of Jesus teaches. The Catholic church. The only church that can trace its roots all the way back to the Apostles, to Peter.

No one can know God's Word if God is not their guide and teacher and just because people have different interpretations of scripture does not mean there is not a correct interpretation of the scriptures. *John 7:17; John 16:13; John 14:26; 1 John 2:27. Tell me how do you know if you have the correct interpretation of the scriptures? This is a salvation based question so it is an important question is it not?

 

[ChetSinger]

I belong to a Protestant church who preaches "the bible, all the bible, and nothing but the bible". And I'm happy there.

Nevertheless, the bible was written in Greek, not English, to people of a different time and culture. That original audience understood the scriptures better than we because they read them in their native language. And, they were closer to the original events of the new testament.

I've found that consulting the church fathers for their interpretations, the earlier the better, is a good window into the teachings of the early church.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I belong to a Protestant church who preaches "the bible, all the bible, and nothing but the bible". And I'm happy there.

Nevertheless, the bible was written in Greek, not English, to people of a different time and culture. That original audience understood the scriptures better than we because they read them in their native language. And, they were closer to the original events of the new testament.

I've found that consulting the church fathers for their interpretations, the earlier the better, is a good window into the teachings of the early church.

I disagree. See why in God's promises here *John 16:13; John 7:17; John 8:31-36; John 14:26; 1 John 2:27. Do you believe these scriptures? I do.

Take Care.

 

[ChetSinger]

I disagree. See why in God's promises here *John 16:13; John 7:17; John 8:31-36; John 14:26; 1 John 2:27. Do you believe these scriptures? I do.

Take Care.

The very bible you're quoting was assembled by the early church, under God's guidance. You can trust them to assemble your bible but not to interpret it? That's incoherent, imo.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The very bible you're quoting was assembled by the early church, under God's guidance. You can trust them to assemble your bible but not to interpret it? That's incoherent, imo.

It comes down simply to this. Spiritual things are spiritually discerned. All the books that make up the bible comes from God, given to us through the prophets and apostles as does the interpretation of it through His Spirit as shown through the scriptures in the post you are quoting from. The books of the bible were in use by every Church outside of the Roman Catholic Church, before the bible was compiled into one volume. Of course I do not trust the interpretation of the Roman Catholic Church. I am protestant and I have been providing reasons why all through this thread. That is what the reformation was about. The Church was departing Gods' Word in order to follow man-made teachings and traditions leading the people away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9. The reformation was a calling of Gods people back to the word of God and giving the Word of God to the common ordinary people. In opposition to persecution by the Roman Catholic Church. Are you protestant and do not know this?

 

[ChetSinger]

No the bible comes from God not man as does the interpretation of it through His Spirit as shown through the scriptures. The books of the bible were in use by every Church outside of the Roman Catholic Church, before the bible was made.

Regarding the assembling of the New Testament, I can personally recommend this book. It's a modern defence of Christianity:

https://www.amazon.com/Reinventing-Jesus-J-Ed-Komoszewski-ebook/dp/B001QOGJXQ​

Part of it describes how the books of our New Testament came to be chosen. Why some (such as the gospels) were accepted early, some (such as The Shepherd of Hermas) were read in churches but eventually left out, and others (such as 2 Peter and Revelation) waited to receive universal acceptance.

Certainly, God was behind it. But he used men to do it. Those men you seem to have little regard for. I suggest you dive deeper into the story of how the New Testament came to be. And if you think you've already done that, I suggest you stretch your horizons beyond your own denomination-supplied sources.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Regarding the assembling of the New Testament, I can personally recommend this book. It's a modern defence of Christianity:

https://www.amazon.com/Reinventing-Jesus-J-Ed-Komoszewski-ebook/dp/B001QOGJXQ​

Part of it describes how the books of our New Testament came to be chosen. Why some (such as the gospels) were accepted early, some (such as The Shepherd of Hermas) were read in churches but eventually left out, and others (such as 2 Peter and Revelation) waited to receive universal acceptance.

Certainly, God was behind it. But he used men to do it. Those men you seem to have little regard for. I suggest you dive deeper into the story of how the New Testament came to be. And if you think you've already done that, I suggest you stretch your horizons beyond your own denomination-supplied sources.

Thanks but I am studied in this area already. Of course God uses men. That was how we got the scriptures in the first place and that was never in disagreement. My point is that God is in control of His Word and is the only one who we can safely rely upon to be our guide and teacher if we sincerely want to know the truth of His Word. All we need for that is have faith in John 7:17 and to prayerfully continue to seek to know Jesus through His Word by believing and following what His Word says (John 8:31-34). I haven't provided any of my own denominational sources. I study Gods' Word for myself asking God to be my guide and teacher. Only scripture has been provided comparing scripture to the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church. From what I see it's teachings have not changed since the reformation.

 

[Joy]

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