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Can you really live by Sola Scriptura?

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LoveGodsWord

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you condone contraception, which is fornication as it is sex for pleasure only. The Catholic Church teaches that contraceptive sex does not consummate a marriage, as the two do not become one flesh and are not joined. They are merely practicing mutual masturbation which is not a holy act. SDA says stewardship trumps following God’s command against lust
As for abortion, they use the cop out line. We don’t condone abortion but we understand if you have to do it (paraphrase)

SDA statement


5. Appropriate methods of birth control. Moral decision making about the choice and use of the various birth control agents must stem from an understanding of their probable effects on physical and emotional health, the manner in which the various agents operate, and the financial expenditure involved. A variety of methods of birth control–including barrier methods, spermicides, and sterilization–prevent conception and are morally acceptable. Some other birth-control methods may prevent the release of the egg (ovulation), may prevent the union of egg and sperm (fertilization), or may prevent attachment of the already fertilized egg (implantation). Because of uncertainty about how they will function in any given instance, they may be morally suspect for people who believe that protectable human life begins at fertilization. However, since the majority of fertilized ova naturally fail to implant or are lost after implantation, even when birth control methods are not being used, hormonal methods of birth control and IUDs, which represent a similar process, may be viewed as morally acceptable. Abortion, the intentional termination of an established pregnancy, is not morally acceptable for purposes of birth control.

6. Misuse of birth control. Though the increased ability to manage fertility and protect against sexually transmitted disease may be useful to many married couples, birth control can be misused. For example, those who would engage in premarital and extramarital sexual relations may more readily indulge in such behaviors because of the availability of birth control methods. The use of such methods to protect sex outside of marriage may reduce the risks of sexually transmitted diseases and/or pregnancy. Sex outside of marriage, however, is both harmful and immoral, whether or not these risks have been diminished.

7. A redemptive approach. The availability of birth-control methods makes education about sexuality and morality even more imperative. Less effort should be put forth in condemnation and more in education and redemptive approaches that seek to allow each individual to be persuaded by the deep movings of the Holy Spirit.

8. Some current examples of these methods include intrauterine devices (IUDs), hormone pills (including the “morning-after pill”), injections, or implants. Questions about these methods should be referred to a medical professional.

This statement was voted during the Annual Council of the General Conference Executive Committee on Wednesday, September 29, 1999 in Silver Spring, Maryland.

RECOMMENDATIONS: USE OF MIFEPRISTONE (RU486)
  1. In the treatment of medical conditions, such as cancer, for which RU486 may provide effective therapy, the drug should be used in keeping with relevant laws and established medical science.
  2. RU486 is also used for contraception. When the effect of the drug is to prevent fertilization, its use is ethically permissible. Like other oral contraceptives, however, RU486 may sometimes prevent implantation of a fertilized ovum. This is ethically problematic to those who consider this effect to be abortion.
  3. When RU486 is used in legally permissible and medically appropriate ways for the purpose of causing abortion, the previously adopted Seventh-day Adventist Guidelines on Abortionshould guide the practice.
This recommendation was voted by the Christian View of Human Life Committee at Pine Springs Ranch, California, April 10-12, 1994, and was voted by the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists Administrative Committee (ADCOM), Silver Spring, Maryland, July 26, 1994.


You refuse to condemn birth control which is refusal to restrain lust, and you don’t care if the birth control kills a baby because most fertilized eggs die anyway.
That is a statement unbecoming one that purports to keep all the commandments


Statement on abortion


While not condoning abortion, the Church and its members are called to follow the example of Jesus, being “full of grace and truth” (John 1:14), to (1) create an atmosphere of true love and provide grace-filled, biblical pastoral care and loving support to those facing difficult decisions regarding abortion


Translation, by our non judgement of you, we condone abortion. You can’t have it both ways
That position does not lead souls to repentance, but keeps members so they don’t “feel condemned”. The Catholic Church automatically excommunicates those that obtain and assist in an abortion. They can seek forgiveness but that requires repentance and acceptance of the evil they have done

Taken out of context (misinformation). The SDA church neither condones fornication or abortion. Marriage is not fornication.

Fornication - G4202

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G4202
fornication πορνεία (porneía | por-ni'-ah)
Derivation: from G4203;
Strong's: harlotry including adultery and incest; figuratively, idolatry
KJV: —fornication.

Liddell/Scott/Jones Greek-English Lexicon - G4202
πορνεία πορν-εία, Ion. πορν-είη, ἡ, prostitution, Hp. Epid. 7.122, etc.; of a man, D. 19.200; fornication, unchastity, Ev.Matt 19:9 : pl., 1 Ep.Cor 7.2.

Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew & Thayer Greek Definitions - G4202
πορνεία porneia Thayer Definition:
1) illicit sexual intercourse
1a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
1b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
1c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mar 10:11,Mar 10:12
2) metaphorically the worship of idols
2a) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols

Full context to what you posted is shown in the linked posts provided below for anyone interested supported by the scriptures...

SDA STATEMENT ON BIRTH CONTROL
SDA STATEMENT ON ABORTION

Hope this is helpful.
 
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enoob57

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Study is always a good thing, but how do you know that you are doing it right, if you do not follow the Apostolic faith?
It was God Who chose written communication as the form for all ages to teach everyone about Himself. This means grammatical work to understand what it says. Next step is contextualization: who is the writer, (as much as can be learned about them), to whom is being addressed, (as much as can be learned about them), cultural, historical, ethnic considerations, political realities, work work work but the better you do the work the better you understand context of the writing...

The Apostles had the original authority of the Church, and all those that broke off from them are in rebellion.
I'm sorry but this simply doesn't jive on outcome... it is God Who says this
John 12:48 (KJV)
[48] He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.


Clearly by God's Own witness of this it is His Word that we answer to! It is why the written format as it is a very objective source where all can come and receive the exact same Word and using the hermeneutic process go away with the same communication the Word teaches...

We are not instructed to reinvent the wheel every generation, we submit to the authority of those that came before us
God has clearly define what the authority is
2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV)
[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

His Scripture is 'The Authority' hence the passage of John 12:48 above states...
 
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enoob57

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And that sentiment is exactly what I found out for myself to be just plain and simply…wrong.
I can debate you on this easily... Catholic teach Pope speaks excathedra, tradition, and Scripture but the Scripture says only Scripture will be used

John 12:48 (KJV)

[48] He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
 
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BPPLEE

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Your is an honorable position, but it is not investigated. Who told you that the Scriptures are true? Who compiled and canonized them? Who translated them for you to read? Who defended them through the centuries and millenia to ensure there was no deviation from the faith once delivered to the saints?

The Bible did not appear out of the air, the Catholic Church wrote the Bible. There were so many different gospels back in the early Church that you would not have know what is true unless it was from the Catholic Church.
Paul warned of sectarianism; some say I am of Paul, I am of Apollos, others say I am of Christ. Is Christ divided? God forbid. There is one Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church as stated in the Nicene creed.

I pray that you continue searching and keep your heart open to God. Never feel you have a complete grasp of the scriptures, we can always learn
We have not been taught the same history. William Tyndale - Wikipedia
 
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BPPLEE

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Your is an honorable position, but it is not investigated. Who told you that the Scriptures are true? Who compiled and canonized them? Who translated them for you to read? Who defended them through the centuries and millenia to ensure there was no deviation from the faith once delivered to the saints?

The Bible did not appear out of the air, the Catholic Church wrote the Bible. There were so many different gospels back in the early Church that you would not have know what is true unless it was from the Catholic Church.
Paul warned of sectarianism; some say I am of Paul, I am of Apollos, others say I am of Christ. Is Christ divided? God forbid. There is one Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church as stated in the Nicene creed.

I pray that you continue searching and keep your heart open to God. Never feel you have a complete grasp of the scriptures, we can always learn
Martyrs for the English Bible on JSTOR
 
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BPPLEE

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You are an honorable man, may God bless you
Never give up the search, as God promises you will seek Him and you will find Him when you seek Him with all of your heart
Thanks. I posted some links. We have not been taught the same thing about how we got our Bible. It's my understanding the Catholic Church had it in Latin and forbid it to be translated into English. There are probably other things we disagree about but like I said I may be wrong about some things too.Myles Coverdale - Wikipedia
 
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fhansen

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I can debate you on this easily... Catholic teach Pope speaks excathedra, tradition, and Scripture but the Scripture says only Scripture will be used
Even if that were true the doctrine of Sola Scriptura is proved to be useless nonetheless by the simple fact that when reasonable disagreements occur on relevant matters, there's no mechanism by which to determine which conflicting interpretation is the correct one. There's only opinion, best guesses. And yet Sacred Scripture does, indeed, indicate the existence of Tradition; it states such explicitly, in fact.
“Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.” 2 Thess 2:15

There's no reason to think we know it all just because we've read the bible. Even then sharp disagreements occur as has been noted.

John 12:48 (KJV)

[48] He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Agreed.
 
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Taken out of context (misinformation). The SDA church neither condones fornication or abortion. Marriage is not fornication.

Fornication - G4202

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G4202
fornication πορνεία (porneía | por-ni'-ah)
Derivation: from G4203;
Strong's: harlotry including adultery and incest; figuratively, idolatry
KJV: —fornication.

Liddell/Scott/Jones Greek-English Lexicon - G4202
πορνεία πορν-εία, Ion. πορν-είη, ἡ, prostitution, Hp. Epid. 7.122, etc.; of a man, D. 19.200; fornication, unchastity, Ev.Matt 19:9 : pl., 1 Ep.Cor 7.2.

Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew & Thayer Greek Definitions - G4202
πορνεία porneia Thayer Definition:
1) illicit sexual intercourse
1a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
1b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
1c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mar 10:11,Mar 10:12
2) metaphorically the worship of idols
2a) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols

Full context to what you posted is shown in the linked posts provided below for anyone interested supported by the scriptures...

SDA STATEMENT ON BIRTH CONTROL
SDA STATEMENT ON ABORTION

Hope this is helpful.


Contraception does not consummate a marriage, so even though they have gone through a "ceremony", even in a Catholic Church, the couple is not married, as they do not consent to be joined by their act of contraception. They are therefore engaged in sexual activity outside of marriage.
Like I said, your group does not teach that, even thought it was the standard in all of Christianity for 1900 years. Not until 1930 was it considered, and now you have many people discarding babies like yesterday's trash. Sex is had irresponsibly in pseudomarriage relationships where men act like boys begging for sex and women treat them like dogs. The prophesy of Isaiah 3:12 is alive and well in the 21st century
[12] As for my people, their oppressors have stripped them, and women have ruled over them. O my people, they that call thee blessed, the same deceive thee, and destroy the way of thy steps.

Libido is a powerful urge that must be brought under the control of the will. The old adage is rule your passions, or you will be ruled by them. As Romans says

[3] For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh; God sending his own Son, in the likeness of sinful flesh and of sin, hath condemned sin in the flesh; [4] That the justification of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the spirit. [5] For they that are according to the flesh, mind the things that are of the flesh; but they that are according to the spirit, mind the things that are of the spirit.

[6] For the wisdom of the flesh is death; but the wisdom of the spirit is life and peace. [7] Because the wisdom of the flesh is an enemy to God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither can it be. [8] And they who are in the flesh, cannot please God. [9] But you are not in the flesh, but in the spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Your group teaches people to live by the flesh, go to church on saturday , even though it is ceremonial, make sure you follow Jewish dietary laws, even though Jesus said it is not what goes into a man that makes him unclean, but Lust? Oh don't worry, its the 21st century, we have so much technology that you can have sex without consequence, you can have fun without children, even though Jesus said that if any man looks on a woman to lust after her, he has already committed adultery with her in his heart. He did not specify whether a person thought they were married or not, just looking at woman to lust after her is adultery. Porn is evil, contraception is evil, she is your wife, not your personal pleasure doll. Treat her with the dignity she deserves.
Oh and women that do not want children, you do not deserve to think you are married, you have truly become a man's ball and chain, unless he consents to it, like Joseph did. If I am not to have children with my wife, even though she is fertile we will not have intercourse. Infertility is another issue. As 1 Cor 6:18- 20 states

18 Fly fornication. Every sin that a man doth, is without the body; but he that committeth fornication, sinneth against his own body.
19 Or know you not, that your members are the temple of the Holy Ghost, who is in you, whom you have from God; and you are not your own?
20 For you are bought with a great price. Glorify and bear God in your body.

fly is old English for flee, run away from, shun, and that is the only way to deal with lust. You cannot control lust by contraception, masturbation or pornography. the only choice when tempted is to flee, as Joseph did when he worked for the Egyptian. He was thrown in prison, but he maintained his purity.
Sexual intercourse is for reproduction and love. Using it for lust brings strife and sins against the body.
Do you really need more proof of the evils of contraception? In 1930, sex was for reproduction, but then some people that called themselves christian thought that contraception should be ok, now we see sex is used for pleasure and children to be avoided. There is rampant pornography, masturbation, contraception, homosexuality, bestiality, fetishes, blow up dolls, robot sex, incest and pedophilia. You may say that is unbelievers and not us, but you were the ones that taught them that sex was for pleasure and not children, lust need not be controlled, as we can contracept. Do you really think that God will not hold you accountable for that? Lord have mercy
The good news is that God does have mercy, repent and you will receive forgiveness, or persist and you will receive judgement. I am living proof. I wasted 56 years of my life with the error of contraception, I repented and I could not be happier. I see all those wasted years and the strife that could have been avoided if I was taught control of myself instead of uncontrolled self with birth control.

You love to tell people to control their bodies by Sabbath attendance and dietary restriction, but you won't tell them to control their lusts. Why?

All your claims of out of context quotes and scriptural references, only goes to show that a sola scripturist can make the scriptures say what ever they want it to mean when they break away from ecclesial authority. The word of God is of no effect in such cases. Human reason is not meant to control scripture, Scripture is meant to control human reason.

The most evil consequence of the contraceptive mentality that I have ever witnessed was in a patient I took care of. He was a young man about 19, and he had a brain injury. He was alive and probably could still think, but he could not communicate. I asked how did he get that way? He and his girlfriend were having sex, and she got pregnant. He was so distraught that he attempted suicide and failed, now he has permanent brain damage. His girlfriend was so distraught when she found out that he attempted suicide, that she attempted suicide herself. She succeeded, and now mother and baby are dead, and the father has permanent brain damage. Why this evil? Because they were taught that sex was for pleasure and children to be avoided, the parents of the boy and the girl did not want the stigma of a pregnant teen, and they told them not to get pregnant, but they did, and this is the result. Still think contraception is scripturally based?
 
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chevyontheriver

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Then the new testament scriptures are Gods' Word right? (Jesus and the Apostles) just like the old testament scriptures *2 Timothy 3:15-16. Therefore the old and new testament scriptures are Gods written Word (scripture) that we are to believe and follow by faith that comes from Gods' Word *Romans 10:17.
That's fine.
God's Word (scripture) therefore is all of Gods counsel ...
You made a little jump there by adding 'all'.
... and there is no counsel outside of Gods' Word that is in contradiction to what God's Word says. If our salvation is dependent on believing and following what Gods' Word says (faith) *Ephesians 2:8 then everything leads back to scripture alone (see Hebrews 11:6; Romans 10:17; John 3:36; Matthew 7:21) which is the only rule of faith.
That 'all' you added there changes quite a bit. I know you are conditioned for it but try to read it without the 'all'.
 
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chevyontheriver

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Taken out of context (misinformation). The SDA church neither condones fornication or abortion. Marriage is not fornication.

Fornication - G4202

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G4202
fornication πορνεία (porneía | por-ni'-ah)
Derivation: from G4203;
Strong's: harlotry including adultery and incest; figuratively, idolatry
KJV: —fornication.

Liddell/Scott/Jones Greek-English Lexicon - G4202
πορνεία πορν-εία, Ion. πορν-είη, ἡ, prostitution, Hp. Epid. 7.122, etc.; of a man, D. 19.200; fornication, unchastity, Ev.Matt 19:9 : pl., 1 Ep.Cor 7.2.

Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew & Thayer Greek Definitions - G4202
πορνεία porneia Thayer Definition:
1) illicit sexual intercourse
1a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
1b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
1c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mar 10:11,Mar 10:12
2) metaphorically the worship of idols
2a) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols

Full context to what you posted is shown in the linked posts provided below for anyone interested supported by the scriptures...

SDA STATEMENT ON BIRTH CONTROL
SDA STATEMENT ON ABORTION

Hope this is helpful.
Last I checked, and it's been a few years, the SDA ran Loma Linda and Loma Linda did abortions. Has that changed? I hope so.
 
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enoob57

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Even if that were true the doctrine of Sola Scriptura is proved to be useless nonetheless by the simple fact that when reasonable disagreements occur on relevant matters, there's no mechanism by which to determine which conflicting interpretation is the correct one
The problem is you do not seek who among men to agree... but only to God do you seek what His Scripture teaches... for to the Scripture alone you will answer back to! The dedication required is to make His Word worth more than the necessary food

Job 23:12 (KJV)
[12] Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food.

Matthew 4:3 (KJV)
[3] And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
[4] But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.


Perhaps the problem is man who holds not this value of His Word...

There's only opinion, best guesses.
I think I answered this above...

And yet Sacred Scripture does, indeed, indicate the existence of Tradition; it states such explicitly, in fact.
“Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.” 2 Thess 2:15
This during the formation of NT Scriptures and they had to rely on oral and tradition taught but now we have the completed Scripture and they teach us something very important as to this first heaven and earth:
This first heaven and earth will be eradicated and all knowledge generated within it will be removed

Knowledge will cease: 1 Corinthians 13:8; Revelation 21:1-5; Isaiah 65:17

Some contend that the earth will be renovated but according to God's Word 'all things will be made new' ...

God is going to make all things new (cf. Isaiah 42:9; 48:6; 66:22; 2 Peter 3:13)

Isaiah 62:2

1. new things, Isaiah 42:9; 48:6

2. new song, Isaiah 42:10 (cf. Rev 5:9; 14:3)

3. something new, Isaiah 43:19 (cf. Revelation 3:12)

4. new name, Isaiah 62:2 (cf. Isaiah 56:5)

5. new heavens and a new earth, Isaiah 65:17; 66:22 (cf. 2 Peter 3:13)

The "new" day (cf. Revelation 21:5) was, in reality, the day that God always wanted for humans, but the Fall in Genesis 3 caused a terrible disruption! But said disruption shall be done away with so that it never had place to begin with... Sin has never had place with God

Ephesians 4:27 (KJV)
[27] Neither give place to the devil.



There's no reason to think we know it all just because we've read the bible. Even then sharp disagreements occur as has been noted.
Again The Scripture has one way, one truth, one life and God requires the answer He has given in each individual... it matters not the thought of men but the Thought of God given in Scripture and the intensity of that truth to be sought more than our necessary food...
 
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chevyontheriver

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Statement on abortion

While not condoning abortion, the Church and its members are called to follow the example of Jesus, being “full of grace and truth” (John 1:14), to (1) create an atmosphere of true love and provide grace-filled, biblical pastoral care and loving support to those facing difficult decisions regarding abortion


Translation, by our non judgement of you, we condone abortion. You can’t have it both ways
That position does not lead souls to repentance, but keeps members so they don’t “feel condemned”. The Catholic Church automatically excommunicates those that obtain and assist in an abortion. They can seek forgiveness but that requires repentance and acceptance of the evil they have done
You could drive a semi truck through their statement on abortion.
 
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chevyontheriver

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We have not been taught the same history.
We have not been taught the same history. We don't even speak the same language for the most part.
 
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chevyontheriver

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Thanks. I posted some links. We have not been taught the same thing about how we got our Bible. It's my understanding the Catholic Church had it in Latin and forbid it to be translated into English. There are probably other things we disagree about but like I said I may be wrong about some things too.Myles Coverdale - Wikipedia
Catholic Bibles go back to the Septuagent (in Greek) and the Greek NT. Along the way Bibles were translated into multiple languages, including Latin. Also including Early English by people like the Venerable Bede WAY before the Reformation. So it is a lie to say the translation of the Bible into English was forbidden. It was expected that translations be adequate and not anti-Catholic in text or notes. The Douay Rheims Bible (in English) was smuggled into England before the KJV was even finished.

Bishop Henry Graham, originally a Calvinist who became Catholic, wrote 'Where We Got The Bible'. I'd recommend that. Then there is Jaroslav Pelikan, a Lutheran who became Orthodox, who wrote 'Whose Bible Is It.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Contraception does not consummate a marriage, so even though they have gone through a "ceremony", even in a Catholic Church, the couple is not married, as they do not consent to be joined by their act of contraception. They are therefore engaged in sexual activity outside of marriage.
Like I said, your group does not teach that, even thought it was the standard in all of Christianity for 1900 years. Not until 1930 was it considered, and now you have many people discarding babies like yesterday's trash. Sex is had irresponsibly in pseudomarriage relationships where men act like boys begging for sex and women treat them like dogs. The prophesy of Isaiah 3:12 is alive and well in the 21st century
[12] As for my people, their oppressors have stripped them, and women have ruled over them. O my people, they that call thee blessed, the same deceive thee, and destroy the way of thy steps.

Libido is a powerful urge that must be brought under the control of the will. The old adage is rule your passions, or you will be ruled by them. As Romans says

[3] For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh; God sending his own Son, in the likeness of sinful flesh and of sin, hath condemned sin in the flesh; [4] That the justification of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the spirit. [5] For they that are according to the flesh, mind the things that are of the flesh; but they that are according to the spirit, mind the things that are of the spirit.

[6] For the wisdom of the flesh is death; but the wisdom of the spirit is life and peace. [7] Because the wisdom of the flesh is an enemy to God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither can it be. [8] And they who are in the flesh, cannot please God. [9] But you are not in the flesh, but in the spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Your group teaches people to live by the flesh, go to church on saturday , even though it is ceremonial, make sure you follow Jewish dietary laws, even though Jesus said it is not what goes into a man that makes him unclean, but Lust? Oh don't worry, its the 21st century, we have so much technology that you can have sex without consequence, you can have fun without children, even though Jesus said that if any man looks on a woman to lust after her, he has already committed adultery with her in his heart. He did not specify whether a person thought they were married or not, just looking at woman to lust after her is adultery. Porn is evil, contraception is evil, she is your wife, not your personal pleasure doll. Treat her with the dignity she deserves.
Oh and women that do not want children, you do not deserve to think you are married, you have truly become a man's ball and chain, unless he consents to it, like Joseph did. If I am not to have children with my wife, even though she is fertile we will not have intercourse. Infertility is another issue. As 1 Cor 6:18- 20 states

18 Fly fornication. Every sin that a man doth, is without the body; but he that committeth fornication, sinneth against his own body.
19 Or know you not, that your members are the temple of the Holy Ghost, who is in you, whom you have from God; and you are not your own?
20 For you are bought with a great price. Glorify and bear God in your body.

fly is old English for flee, run away from, shun, and that is the only way to deal with lust. You cannot control lust by contraception, masturbation or pornography. the only choice when tempted is to flee, as Joseph did when he worked for the Egyptian. He was thrown in prison, but he maintained his purity.
Sexual intercourse is for reproduction and love. Using it for lust brings strife and sins against the body.
Do you really need more proof of the evils of contraception? In 1930, sex was for reproduction, but then some people that called themselves christian thought that contraception should be ok, now we see sex is used for pleasure and children to be avoided. There is rampant pornography, masturbation, contraception, homosexuality, bestiality, fetishes, blow up dolls, robot sex, incest and pedophilia. You may say that is unbelievers and not us, but you were the ones that taught them that sex was for pleasure and not children, lust need not be controlled, as we can contracept. Do you really think that God will not hold you accountable for that? Lord have mercy
The good news is that God does have mercy, repent and you will receive forgiveness, or persist and you will receive judgement. I am living proof. I wasted 56 years of my life with the error of contraception, I repented and I could not be happier. I see all those wasted years and the strife that could have been avoided if I was taught control of myself instead of uncontrolled self with birth control.

You love to tell people to control their bodies by Sabbath attendance and dietary restriction, but you won't tell them to control their lusts. Why?

All your claims of out of context quotes and scriptural references, only goes to show that a sola scripturist can make the scriptures say what ever they want it to mean when they break away from ecclesial authority. The word of God is of no effect in such cases. Human reason is not meant to control scripture, Scripture is meant to control human reason.

The most evil consequence of the contraceptive mentality that I have ever witnessed was in a patient I took care of. He was a young man about 19, and he had a brain injury. He was alive and probably could still think, but he could not communicate. I asked how did he get that way? He and his girlfriend were having sex, and she got pregnant. He was so distraught that he attempted suicide and failed, now he has permanent brain damage. His girlfriend was so distraught when she found out that he attempted suicide, that she attempted suicide herself. She succeeded, and now mother and baby are dead, and the father has permanent brain damage. Why this evil? Because they were taught that sex was for pleasure and children to be avoided, the parents of the boy and the girl did not want the stigma of a pregnant teen, and they told them not to get pregnant, but they did, and this is the result. Still think contraception is scripturally based?
Where did I say contraception consummates a marriage? If I have never said such things or made those claims why pretend that this is what I am saying and make arguments no one is arguing about? You could have saved yourself time in writing this post as it is not an argument I have ever made or said.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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You could drive a semi truck through their statement on abortion.
We do not follow semi trucks or the teachings and traditions of men that bread the commandments of God. We follow what Gods Word says.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Catholic Bibles go back to the Septuagent (in Greek) and the Greek NT. Along the way Bibles were translated into multiple languages, including Latin. Also including Early English by people like the Venerable Bede WAY before the Reformation. So it is a lie to say the translation of the Bible into English was forbidden. It was expected that translations be adequate and not anti-Catholic in text or notes. The Douay Rheims Bible (in English) was smuggled into England before the KJV was even finished. Bishop Henry Graham, originally a Calvinist who became Catholic, wrote 'Where We Got The Bible'. I'd recommend that. Then there is Jaroslav Pelikan, a Lutheran who became Orthodox, who wrote 'Whose Bible Is It.

Protestant bibles go back to the original Hebrew scriptures and the writings of Jesus and the Apostles in the new testament none of which matters if God is not our guide and teacher according to the scriptures *1 Corinthians 1:19-23 (see also John 7:17; John 16:13; John 14:26; 1 John 2:27. According to Jesus we need to continue in His Word to be His disciples *see John 8:31-36.
 
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chevyontheriver

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Where did I say contraception consummates a marriage. If I have never said such things or made those claims why pretend and make arguments I have never made? You could have saved yourself time in writing this post as it is not an argument I have ever made.
What was intended was to say that a contracepted sex act does not consummate a marriage. Not that you said so or did not say so. So chill a bit.

I suspect you have been taught that contraception is AOK. But as recently as 1929 EVERY Christian denomination would have said that contraception is immoral. Many would have used Scriptures to make the case contraception was immoral. But then the Anglicans decided they should allow contraception in certain rare cases, and only for married couples. In the mean time Protestants were busy passing the Comstock Laws, making the selling of contraceptives illegal in the USA. But what started with the Anglicans spread to all the other Protestant bodies and artificial birth control suddenly became Scripturally approved. And divorce followed, and abortion followed, and here we are. Only the Catholics tried to say what was true before 1930 is true in 1968 and true in 2020. So did the Sola Scriptura folks get this right BEFORE 1930, or only gradually AFTER 1930?
 
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chevyontheriver

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We do not follow semi trucks or the teachings and traditions of men that bread the commandments of God. We follow what Gods Word says.
I'm glad for you. Does Loma Linda still do abortions? When did they stop?
 
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