Can you really live by Sola Scriptura?

[Freth]

As posted earlier, there is no salvation outside of faith in God's Word alone and faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *Romans 10:17

Pure, unadulterated, guess-work and presumption there.

A few verses that support LGW's statement:

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

John 8:31-32 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.​

 

[chevyontheriver]

I was wondering since there are so many denominations claiming Sola Scriptura, what does that actually mean, and how is it different from the scenario presented in this video?

Are you governed by sola scriptura or is sola scriptura governed by you or those in authority over you?

This video really made me think. Anyone else?

https://youtube.com/shorts/tUZKrrz3vCk?feature=share

Jordan Peterson got it so right. I watched this actually very short video again and it pegs it.

 

[DragonFox91]

Was clicking thru the pages of this subforum & there was a good thread on this a few pages ago.

 

[fhansen]

A few verses that support LGW's statement:

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

John 8:31-32 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.​

I've read the Word of God, multiple times, and debated it with others who've read it. And one can go round and round in circles debating it. We need more than just ourselves in order to understand it fully; the Bereans need more that just themselves, the Ethiopian Eunuch needed more than just himself. The Bible's indisputably good, of course; in it we hear the voice of God, but to understand His will thoroughly by it can be a crap-shoot-which is why so many divergent opinions prevail. In the right hands, and in light of the whole counsel of the Church that precedes us, we can discern the truth fully, and so be enlightened by it. Either way, the doctrine of Sola Scriptura is nonsense, unworkable.

 

[Freth]

In the right hands, and in light of the whole counsel of the Church that precedes us, we can discern the truth fully, and so be enlightened by it. Either way, the doctrine of Sola Scriptura is nonsense, unworkable.

Moses, Jesus and Paul all said, "In the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established." (Deuteronomy 19:15, Matthew 18:16, 2 Corinthians 13:1), which not only pertains to disputes, but how we determine scriptural truth.

Here are three witnesses concerning tradition:

A warning about relying on the tradition of men.

Colossians 2:8-10 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power.
​

Jesus, rebuking scribes and Pharisees about putting tradition before the commandment of God.

Mark 7:8-9 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
​

Peter, also warning about tradition.

1 Peter 1:18-19 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.
​

We can then safely say that scripture tells us not to rely on the tradition of men, and to keep the commandments of God.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Moses, Jesus and Paul all said, "In the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established." (Deuteronomy 19:15, Matthew 18:16, 2 Corinthians 13:1), which not only pertains to disputes, but how we determine scriptural truth.

Here are three witnesses concerning tradition:

A warning about relying on the tradition of men.

Colossians 2:8-10 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power.
​

Jesus, responding to scribes and Pharisees about putting tradition before the commandment of God.

Mark 7:8-9 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
​

Peter, also warning about tradition.

1 Peter 1:18-19 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.
​

We can then safely say that scripture tells us not to rely on the tradition of men, and to keep the commandments of God.

Our Lord gave us a New Covenant. The tradition that the Scriptures were referring to was the Old Covenant, which were only shadows of things to come, not tradition itself.
The Old Covenant was fulfilled and no longer to be retained.
Christ founded one Church and the Apostolic tradition is to be followed and obeyed. Jesus did not die to say all tradition is over now just read the book, every man for himself.
The Holy Spirit watched over the Church and guides her into all truth. When we are on our own, we are subject to deceiving spirits

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Our Lord gave us a New Covenant. The tradition that the Scriptures were referring to was the Old Covenant, which were only shadows of things to come, not tradition itself.
The Old Covenant was fulfilled and no longer to be retained.
Christ founded one Church and the Apostolic tradition is to be followed and obeyed. Jesus did not die to say all tradition is over now just read the book, every man for himself.
The Holy Spirit watched over the Church and guides her into all truth. When we are on our own, we are subject to deceiving spirits

Jesus Himself was referring to the commandments of God Matthew 15:3-9 honor thy father and mother Exodus 20:12- are you saying we should not honor our father and mother in the New Covenant? There is no scripture anywhere that says we should lay aside God’s Ten Commandments and follow the law of man. I think we should believe Jesus as He is our example to follow who kept all of the commandments of God and told us to as well. John 14:15. Matthew 5:17-30, Matthew 19:17-19, John 15:10. Christ founded a Church who obeys in His teachings and follows Him Matthew 28:20 many people follow churches and not Christ. His Church is a remnant according to scripture that keeps the commandments of God. Revelation 12:17, Revelation 14:12, Revelation 22:14 I believe we should all keep the commandments of God that God wrote in our hearts and mind in the New Covenant. Hebrews 8:10, Jer 31:33

 

[Freth]

Our Lord gave us a New Covenant. The tradition that the Scriptures were referring to was the Old Covenant, which were only shadows of things to come, not tradition itself.
The Old Covenant was fulfilled and no longer to be retained.
Christ founded one Church and the Apostolic tradition is to be followed and obeyed. Jesus did not die to say all tradition is over now just read the book, every man for himself.
The Holy Spirit watched over the Church and guides her into all truth. When we are on our own, we are subject to deceiving spirits

Paul's writings are post last supper, as are Peter's. Jesus Himself told His disciples that they would remember all that He taught, so that they could then go and teach others to observe them.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
​

And then that same gospel went to the world. Thus the previously quoted scripture in my last post is still relevant.

Regarding the new covenant, Jesus made it plain in Matthew 5.

Matthew 5:17-20 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
​

You can't say the new covenant destroys anything Jesus taught, nor the prophets. Jesus even hung the law and the prophets on love, which was not a new concept, it's a summation of Leviticus.

 

[fhansen]

Moses, Jesus and Paul all said, "In the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established." (Deuteronomy 19:15, Matthew 18:16, 2 Corinthians 13:1), which not only pertains to disputes, but how we determine scriptural truth.

Here are three witnesses concerning tradition:

A warning about relying on the tradition of men.

Colossians 2:8-10 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power.
​

Jesus, rebuking scribes and Pharisees about putting tradition before the commandment of God.

Mark 7:8-9 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
​

Peter, also warning about tradition.

1 Peter 1:18-19 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.
​

We can then safely say that scripture tells us not to rely on the tradition of men, and to keep the commandments of God.

Geez, every group or denomination can and do claim Deut 19:15, Matt 18:16, and 2 Cor 13:1 as the reason they split off from or differ from another group. All they do is come up with new traditions of men based on their human, private interpretation of the Bible!!! That’s what the Reformation was all about to begin with, at least as far as it pertained to doctrine!

"So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter." 2 Thess 2:15

"Traditions" there is the same Greek word used in the three verses you cited.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Jesus Himself was referring to the commandments of God Matthew 15:3-9 honor thy father and mother Exodus 20:12- are you saying we should not honor our father and mother in the New Covenant? There is no scripture anywhere that says we should lay aside God’s Ten Commandments and follow the law of man. I think we should believe Jesus as He is our example to follow who kept all of the commandments of God and told us to as well. John 14:15. Matthew 5:17-30, Matthew 19:17-19, John 15:10. Christ founded a Church who obeys in His teachings and follows Him Matthew 28:20 many people follow churches and not Christ. His Church is a remnant according to scripture that keeps the commandments of God. Revelation 12:17, Revelation 14:12, Revelation 22:14 I believe we should all keep the commandments of God that God wrote in our hearts and mind in the New Covenant. Hebrews 8:10, Jer 31:33

That was not what I was saying, and I agree that we should follow all the commandments of God that are part of the natural law.
The ceremonial traditions of Judaism were laid aside, primarily circumcision, as the word says those that allow themselves to be circumcised are debtors to keep the whole law. We don’t do that anymore, as they were shadows of things to come.
The Passover was a shadow of Christ’s death on the cross. He fulfilled it perfectly as He was the lamb of God. Our tradition is no longer a Passover meal with a sacrificial lamb, it is the Eucharist as instituted by Christ Himself at the last Supper. When we eat this bread and drink this cup, we proclaim your death Lord Jesus, until you come again.
The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath, and Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath; He has fulfilled that part of the law. We still rest one day in seven, but we commemorate the work of God’s hands in the New Covenant, namely the Resurrection and the Descent of the Holy Spirit (Pentecost) both of which occurred on a Sunday. We do not tenaciously hold to old traditions that are passed away in the New Covenant. It was worked out at the council of Jerusalem where the gentiles were not obligated to keep Jewish ceremonial law.
We are to die to ourselves and repent of all sin, and the grace of God will cleanse us from all unrighteousness. The deadly sins are pride, lust, envy, wrath, greed, gluttony, and sloth. We are cleansed of those as we follow Jesus.
All of those are part of the natural law and obligatory for Christians to repent

 

[SabbathBlessings]

That was not what I was saying, and I agree that we should follow all the commandments of God that are part of the natural law.
The ceremonial traditions of Judaism were laid aside, primarily circumcision, as the word says those that allow themselves to be circumcised are debtors to keep the whole law. We don’t do that anymore, as they were shadows of things to come.
The Passover was a shadow of Christ’s death on the cross. He fulfilled it perfectly as He was the lamb of God. Our tradition is no longer a Passover meal with a sacrificial lamb, it is the Eucharist as instituted by Christ Himself at the last Supper. When we eat this bread and drink this cup, we proclaim your death Lord Jesus, until you come again.
The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath, and Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath; He has fulfilled that part of the law. We still rest one day in seven, but we commemorate the work of God’s hands in the New Covenant, namely the Resurrection and the Descent of the Holy Spirit (Pentecost) both of which occurred on a Sunday. We do not tenaciously hold to old traditions that are passed away in the New Covenant. It was worked out at the council of Jerusalem where the gentiles were not obligated to keep Jewish ceremonial law.
We are to die to ourselves and repent of all sin, and the grace of God will cleanse us from all unrighteousness. The deadly sins are pride, lust, envy, wrath, greed, gluttony, and sloth. We are cleansed of those as we follow Jesus.
All of those are part of the natural law and obligatory for Christians to repent

If you agree we should follow all of the commandments of Gods why do you separate the Sabbath commandment when God did not? Exodus 20, Exodus 34:28 It’s part of God’s eternal covenant that God spoke and God wrote with His own finger and came in a unit of Ten, not nine and happens to be the one commandment that God said “remember” so forgetting shouldn’t be an option for those who wish to follow God’s commandments, that you said you agree we should keep. There is no scripture stating we can disobey any of God’s commandments and I see you didn’t provide that scripture so for me I choose to follow God’s law the way He wrote it, us humans can’t improve, nor should we try, what God personally wrote with His own finger and personally spoke with His own voice and keeps in the Most Holy of His Temple, His holy law, the Ten Commandments.

I don’t think we can debate the Sabbath here so we will have to agree to disagree. God bless

 

[fhansen]

If you agree we should follow all of the commandments of Gods why do you separate the Sabbath commandment when God did not? Exodus 20, Exodus 34:28 It’s part of God’s eternal covenant that God spoke and God wrote with His own finger and came in a unit of Ten, not nine and happens to be the one commandment that God said “remember” so forgetting shouldn’t be an option for those who wish to follow God’s commandments, that you said you agree we should keep. There is no scripture stating we can disobey any of God’s commandments and I see you didn’t provide that scripture so for me I choose to follow God’s law the way He wrote it, us humans can’t improve, nor should we try, what God personally wrote with His own finger and personally spoke with His own voice and keeps in the Most Holy of His Temple, His holy law, the Ten Commandments.

I don’t think we can debate the Sabbath here so we will have to agree to disagree. God bless

That's why we have the Church, with Sacred Tradition, to fill in what we cannot necessarily discern on our own by picking up a book centuries after the fact and thinking we just know everything it means to tell us. Both the east and west adopted Sunday, the day the Lord rose, immediately as their main day of worship and the Church considers the commandment regarding the Sabbath to be fulfilled by this.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

That's why we have the Church, with Sacred Tradition, to fill in what we cannot necessarily discern on our own by picking up a book centuries after the fact and thinking we just know everything it means to tell us. Both the east and west adopted Sunday, the day the Lord rose, immediately as their main day of worship and the Church considers the commandment regarding the Sabbath to be fulfilled by this.

For me, I think God’s Word is sufficient and it should be for all and Jesus in His own Words told us to keep God’s commandments over man’s traditions Matthew 15:3-9, Mark 7:6-8 so I am going to believe Jesus and follow His teachings. If we follow scripture we know we are following God. We are warned if one teaches we don’t need to keep the law or the prophets, there is no light in them. Isaiah 8:20

 

[fhansen]

For me, I think God’s Word is sufficient and it should be for all and Jesus in His own Words told us to keep God’s commandments over man’s traditions Matthew 15:3-9, Mark 7:6-8 so I am going to believe Jesus and follow His teachings. If we follow scripture we know we are following God. We are warned if one teaches we don’t need to keep the law or the prophets, there is no light in them. Isaiah 8:20

Where I've studied and compared the teachings few if any Sola Scriptura adherents have the full-true gospel down- as the ancient churches do. Many have come along and believed themselves to uniquely have it right after centuries of maligned teachings, but... that's just the same 'ole saw, with novel doctrine resulting.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Where I've studied and compared the teachings few if any Sola Scriptura adherents have the full-true gospel down- as the ancient churches do. Many have come along and believed themselves to uniquely have it right after centuries of maligned teachings, but... that's just the same 'ole saw, with novel doctrine resulting.

For me, the Bible is the Authority of the Word of God, I personally think its dangerous for man to think they have the authority to change one dot of scripture (Proverbs 30:5-6, Daniel 7:25 Matthew 5:18) yet alone a commandment of God written by God’s own finger. How people keep His Word is something we will all have to answer to Him one day soon.

 

[fhansen]

For me, the Bible is the Authority of the Word of God, I personally think its dangerous for man to think they have the authority to change one dot of scripture (Proverbs 30:5-6, Daniel 7:25 Matthew 5:18) yet alone a commandment of God written by God’s own finger. How people keep His Word is something we will all have to answer to Him one day soon.

And for us, Jesus is the Word, and the Lord of the Sabbath. We go by Him, who wrote His Word in the heart of the Church at the beginning.and continues to guide it.

 

[chevyontheriver]

For me, the Bible is the Authority of the Word of God ....

I'm not a Sola Scriptura guy but the Bible is central to me nonetheless.

I personally think its dangerous for man to think they have the authority to change one dot of scripture (Proverbs 30:5-6, Daniel 7:25 Matthew 5:18) yet alone a commandment of God written by God’s own finger.

Indeed. Yet I see it all the time with people who proclaim they were taught to do just that by the authority of Scripture alone.

How people keep His Word is something we will all have to answer to Him one day soon.

Absolutely. Less keep it well than say they keep it well. People who say they have no traditions nonetheless have plenty traditions of men. People who claim to follow Scripture alone often have ten or twenty verses or at max fifty verses that they think explains it all. But what of the other 40,000 or so verses they don't have room for. Some of those verses would contradict the interpretations of their pet verses.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

If you agree we should follow all of the commandments of Gods why do you separate the Sabbath commandment when God did not? Exodus 20, Exodus 34:28 It’s part of God’s eternal covenant that God spoke and God wrote with His own finger and came in a unit of Ten, not nine and happens to be the one commandment that God said “remember” so forgetting shouldn’t be an option for those who wish to follow God’s commandments, that you said you agree we should keep. There is no scripture stating we can disobey any of God’s commandments and I see you didn’t provide that scripture so for me I choose to follow God’s law the way He wrote it, us humans can’t improve, nor should we try, what God personally wrote with His own finger and personally spoke with His own voice and keeps in the Most Holy of His Temple, His holy law, the Ten Commandments.

I don’t think we can debate the Sabbath here so we will have to agree to disagree. God bless

That is your opinion, and you follow your prophetess EGW, you claim to follow scripture, but your teaching was not started until 1860. Well over 1800 years since the start of the Church. Much like EGW, it sounds pious but does not hold up under further scrutiny.
The ceremonial law was done away with, the spirit of the law remains. Rest one day in seven.
Dietary laws were also done away with, yet you say the old laws still apply, when our Lord said it is not what goes into a man that makes him unclean, however what comes out.
Nevertheless if your faith compels you to keep the old sabbath and adhere to strict diet, do it for the Lord. How does it glorify God to call those that do not share your perspective “the harlot of Babylon” and say they worship the mark of the beast? Who are you to judge another man’s servant? The Catholic Church recognizes you as Christians united to the body of Christ through baptism. Do you do the same?
I have read the great controversy and it is so full of errors that one cannot possibly think it came from God. God proclaims truth. He does not use calumny, detraction, falsehoods and error and try to tell us it is true. It just does not happen. She seemed to mean well, but EGW was very wrong in her writings.
If you go by scripture alone, as this thread is about, do you disavow the writings of Ellen G White?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

And for us, Jesus is the Word, and the Lord of the Sabbath. We go by Him, who wrote His Word in the heart of the Church at the beginning.and continues to guide it.

According to scripture God wrote His laws in our hearts and minds Hebrews 8:10 and His church are made up of those who follow His teachings. That’s the great things about the New Covenant Jesus is our Mediator between man and God 1 Timothy 2:5 and we can go directly to Jesus for the forgiveness of our sins when we repent 1 John 1:9 (have a changed heart).

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath so I agree with you there and the Sabbath is the holy day of the Lord thy God according to His clear Word. Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13 and His chosen day of worship of our Lord and Savior for all eternity Isaiah 66:23 as it has been from the very beginning. Genesis 2:1-3

Due to the forum rules, if you wish to discuss the Sabbath further I would be happy to in the Sabbath and Law forum. Let me know and I can open something up if you want to move the Sabbath discussion there.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

That is your opinion, and you follow your prophetess EGW, you claim to follow scripture, but your teaching was not started until 1860. Well over 1800 years since the start of the Church. Much like EGW, it sounds pious but does not hold up under further scrutiny.
The ceremonial law was done away with, the spirit of the law remains. Rest one day in seven.
Dietary laws were also done away with, yet you say the old laws still apply, when our Lord said it is not what goes into a man that makes him unclean, however what comes out.
Nevertheless if your faith compels you to keep the old sabbath and adhere to strict diet, do it for the Lord. How does it glorify God to call those that do not share your perspective “the harlot of Babylon” and say they worship the mark of the beast? Who are you to judge another man’s servant? The Catholic Church recognizes you as Christians united to the body of Christ through baptism. Do you do the same?
I have read the great controversy and it is so full of errors that one cannot possibly think it came from God. God proclaims truth. He does not use calumny, detraction, falsehoods and error and try to tell us it is true. It just does not happen. She seemed to mean well, but EGW was very wrong in her writings.
If you go by scripture alone, as this thread is about, do you disavow the writings of Ellen G White?

Actually I have only quoted scripture, not anyone else. I see you have not provided any scripture that disagrees with the scripture I provided in your response and its common to bring in EW when one does not have a response to the clear scriptures. Again God is the authority of His Word- God wrote His Ten Commandments with His finger, not EW. For me only the scriptures matter, so we will have to agree to disagree. Take care.