Can you really live by Sola Scriptura?

[LoveGodsWord]

You (again) failed to even address the question of boughtwithaprice, who asked you:

See post # 84 linked. Not really, as posted earlier the question of this OP is "Can you really live by scripture alone?" I am not interested in discussing was Mary a sinner like you and me. I see this is a distraction to the OP topic and a change of subject matter that I am not interested in talking about. I posted my view from the scriptures already on if I thought Mary was sinless in post # 76 linked that was simply ignored. The scriptures provided from the linked post from Romans 3:9-23 show that...

Romans 3:9-23

1. Both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin - Romans 3:9
2. There is none righteous, no, not one - Romans 3:10
3. None that understands, there is none that seeks after God - Romans 3:11
4. Destruction and misery are in their ways - Romans 3:16
5. All the world may become guilty of sin before God - Romans 3:19-20
6. All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God - Romans 3:23

When Paul says all have sinned and again all the world is guilty before God, he is talking about all man kind which include all men and all women here which also includes Mary who is a sinner in need of a Savior just like everyone of us. In order for you to prove that Mary was sinless you would need to provide scripture for that teaching and there is none. Then you would need to harmonize what Paul says in Romans 3:9-23. Although that will never happen as there is no scripture that says Mary is sinless. So you have a problem here in your belief that Mary was sinless as it is a teaching that is not biblical or supported in the scriptures. As shown above everything you have posted about Mary being sinless and God's greatest creation is not supported in the scriptures so the human inference here is your side as your claims are not supported by scripture.

Now as I was interested in talking about the OP and not interested in a discussion that Mary is sinless or not I personally only see the change or subject matter as not being relevant to the OP or something I am not interested in talking about to be honest.

You instead doubled down on denying Biblical evidence contrary to your view. I think it comes down to 'Sola some Scripture but not other Scripture'. You have been, so far, unwilling to address the Bible teaching about Mary as kecharitomene. Will you bother to do so now?

Agreed I have doubled down on the scriptures provided above as they are Gods' Word not my words. Unless you go provide me with scripture saying Mary was sinless then I need to believe what is written in Gods' Word what you choose to believe is between you and God according to Jesus in John 12:47-48 and I do not judge you. I have shown you what I believe from the scriptures. So we will agree to disagree.

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

If I were to claim sola scriptura and ignore 2000 years of Church history, it would be as if I point to God and tell Him the He did not know what He was doing for the last 2000 years.

Scripture alone does not ignore 2000 years of Church history. Scripture alone is the foundation of Church history and what determines who Gods' Church is. Gods Church therefore is all those who believe and follow what Gods' Word says and not those according to Jesus who follow the teachings and traditions of men that lead us to break the commandments of God and disobey God's Word as Eve did in the garden of Eden *Matthew 15:3-9; Genesis 3:1-5. As posted many time now there is nothing wrong with traditions and the teachings of men if they are supported by the scriptures and not in contradiction to the scriptures. If any Church teaching is against the scriptures as Peter says in Acts of the Apostles 5:29 we ought to obey God rather than man. According to the scriptures, there is no faith without God's Word *Romans 10:17 and no salvation that comes through God's grace that is received through faith *Ephesians 2:8-9. Therefore the scriptures are the only rule of faith for Gods' Church and has always been the case from all the books of the old and new testament scriptures, from Genesis to Revelation.

Everyone else was apostate till I came along. They were ignorant, I am wise. They were fools, and God loves me better. Even though I am claiming sola scriptura, I just don’t see that position being biblical or pleasing to God. It would be my arrogance or pride, and we know pride is a sin.

According to the scriptures, Jesus says you shall know them by their fruit, that is who is from God and who is not from God *Matthew 7:13-23. John makes the same claims and says in 1 John 2:3-4 and hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. So the key thing here is faith or believing Gods' Word that leads us to obedience to what Gods' Word is saying. So believing and obeying what Gods' Word says is the fruit of genuine faith and this faith comes by hearing and this hearing comes by the Words of God *Romans 10:17. Therefore if there is no word there can be no faith and as posted earlier whatsoever is not of faith in Gods' Word is sin *Romans 14:23 because without faith in Gods' Word that leads us to obey what God's Word says it is impossible to please God *Romans 11:6.

The three greatest virtues that a Christian can live by are poverty, chastity and obedience. As Jesus says, Blessed are the poor in spirit, Blessed are the pure of heart, and Blessed are the meek. Do those around you teach you that? (We all need to reflect on this and not point fingers at each other)

The only virtues a Christian can have are only received by believing and obeying what Gods' Word says. It is through faith, that is by believing and following what Gods' Word says (Sola Scriptura) *Romans 10:17 that anyone of us are born into God's new covenant promise to love and without God's Word (Sola Scriptura) it is impossible to please God for whatsoever is not of faith in God's Word is sin according to the scriptures (Romans 14:23; Hebrews 11:6). Therefore there is no salvation outside of faith in God's Word (Sola Scriptura) according to the scriptures (see John 3:36; Matthew 7:21).

The Catholic Church teaches Extra Ecclesium Nulla Salles (sp) or outside the Church there is no salvation. This means that there is one holy universal(catholic) and apostolic Church. There are not two or three or 40,000 churches. There is one and only one, as Paul implies Christ has one body and laments Is Christ divided? I am of Paul I am of Apollos I am of Christ. No, we do not reform the Church by rebellion and starting over, we reform the Church from within by poverty, chastity, and obedience. Humility is the greatest virtue, as David said, I will not lift my hand against God’s anointed,

According to the scriptures, God's people are in every Church living up to all the light of Gods' Word that he has revealed to us *John 10:17 but according to Jesus the hour is coming and now is that the true worshipers will worship God in Spirit and in truth according to what God's Word says *see John 4:23 and John 6:63. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth *John 4:24. God is calling all of us to come out of following man-made teachings and traditions that have led many away from God and His Word to return to His Word and believe and follow what His Word says *see Matthew 15:3-9; Revelation 18:1-5

The Catholic Church has many problems in the twenty first century, I’ll give you that, but would we think any different? Does not Satan want to bring down the Church in all his fury? Yes, he wants to and it is not hard to identify his attacks. We know that and do not accept everything said just because it is purported to be from a catholic, we test what is said against the Catholic magisterium, the traditional teaching of the Church, which includes scripture and tradition. We have 2000 years of history! Is that to be ignored? God forbid. The Church has problems but we do not rebel against her, we stay, we pray, we fast and obey

See above. God's people are in all Church's and God is calling us all to return to His Word and worship Him in Spirit and in truth (see John 4:23-24; John 6:63; John 10:17; John 10:26-27 and Revelation 14:7).

Take Care.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

So, the sola scripturist ignores scripture and calls it a distraction? How convenient. It’s why I made the OP, I did not believe sola scriptura would really be about scripture, but just proof texts. To ignore Mary is to ignore Our Lord, as He chose to come to Earth through her.
Genesis 3:15 states should would be a different seed than that of the serpent, and God would put enmity between him and the woman. Sin is in the seed of the serpent, not Mary.
Mary is so important that proverbs 8 states God knew her from before creation. Song of Songs tells of His love for her. Psalm 45 (44 Douay Rheims) states that she is at the right hand of Our Lord. Luke says that Our Lord sits on the throne of David forever. That throne includes father, son, and queen mother. Proverbs 31 speaks of her perfect virtue. Revelation 12 speaks of her in heaven clothed with the sun, moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.
Let’s ignore all those scriptures, as they are a distraction? No thank you. Sola scriptura as presented in this thread is only half scripture
Mary is not a distraction, but the very instrument God promised and used to bring redemption to the world. Grace is not a wink at sin and some legal pass. Grace is powerful to cleanse us from all sin and lead us on the path of righteousness should we let it. If we obstinately hold to our sin and claim Jesus will save us anyway, we miss the mark. Broad is the way that leads to destruction, narrow is the way, straight is the gate that leads to life. Few there be that find it. Mary can help
Mary is the sinless virgin Mother of God. She knows Jesus better than you do. If you want to know Him, ask her. The scripture are there if you will look

 

[LoveGodsWord]

So, the sola scripturist ignores scripture and calls it a distraction? How convenient. It’s why I made the OP, I did not believe sola scriptura would really be about scripture, but just proof texts. To ignore Mary is to ignore Our Lord, as He chose to come to Earth through her.
Genesis 3:15 states should would be a different seed than that of the serpent, and God would put enmity between him and the woman. Sin is in the seed of the serpent, not Mary.
Mary is so important that proverbs 8 states God knew her from before creation. Song of Songs tells of His love for her. Psalm 45 (44 Douay Rheims) states that she is at the right hand of Our Lord. Luke says that Our Lord sits on the throne of David forever. That throne includes father, son, and queen mother. Proverbs 31 speaks of her perfect virtue. Revelation 12 speaks of her in heaven clothed with the sun, moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.
Let’s ignore all those scriptures, as they are a distraction? No thank you. Sola scriptura as presented in this thread is only half scripture
Mary is not a distraction, but the very instrument God promised and used to bring redemption to the world. Grace is not a wink at sin and some legal pass. Grace is powerful to cleanse us from all sin and lead us on the path of righteousness should we let it. If we obstinately hold to our sin and claim Jesus will save us anyway, we miss the mark. Broad is the way that leads to destruction, narrow is the way, straight is the gate that leads to life. Few there be that find it. Mary can help
Mary is the sinless virgin Mother of God. She knows Jesus better than you do. If you want to know Him, ask her. The scripture are there if you will look

No dear friend those who believe in scripture alone believe and follow what scripture says which is why scripture is the only rule of faith. Please see post # 95 linked. "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." - Romans 3:23. There is no scripture that says Mary was sinless. I never said Mary was a distraction. Only that the topic was a distraction to the OP which is over the question "Can you really live by scripture alone?" My answer to this question is that faith in Gods' Word is the only way to live and have God's promise of everlasting life because if we do not have faith in Gods' Word alone we do not have eternal life according to Jesus in John 3:36 as our faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *Romans 10:17. Therefore the scriptures are the only rule of faith as to what is right and what is wrong, what is true and what is not true *John 17:17.

 

[chevyontheriver]

You instead doubled down on denying Biblical evidence contrary to your view. I think it comes down to 'Sola some Scripture but not other Scripture'. You have been, so far, unwilling to address the Bible teaching about Mary as kecharitomene. Will you bother to do so now?

Agreed I have doubled down ....

A person cannot see what they deliberately chose to not see. The question about Mary and kecharitomene was to provide you Biblical evidence for the sinlessness of Mary. And you denied it a priori, as in without even a hearing.

I already mentioned that your position appears to be 'Sola Some Scripture But Not Other Scripture'. I guess you think it works for you but it is a deeply flawed method. It will only confirm what you already believe (a sinful Mary, no confession, an unsubstantiated canon for the Bible, probably a host of other things) and it does not allow you to be challenged by the Bible to find more accurate truth. Me? I can check out and investigate what Scripture means. I can ask what the Fathers of the Church said. I can ask what the councils of the Church said. Have you closed yourself off from all of that? What? to be a lone ranger? I benefit from almost two thousand years of Bible Study by prayerful people. Do you reject all of that? Sounds like it. You're not interested, as you said. OK. I leave you to it.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Full context provided in post # 101 linked.

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ Agreed I have doubled down on the scriptures provided above as they are Gods' Word not my words. Unless you go provide me with scripture saying Mary was sinless then I need to believe what is written in Gods' Word what you choose to believe is between you and God according to Jesus in John 12:47-48 and I do not judge you. I have shown you what I believe from the scriptures. So we will agree to disagree.

Your response here...

A person cannot see what they deliberately chose to not see. The question about Mary and kecharitomene was to provide you Biblical evidence for the sinlessness of Mary. And you denied it a priori, as in without even a hearing.

Agreed. God gave Isaiah His Word to give to His people in Isaiah 6:9-10 and God said Go,
and tell this people, Hear you indeed, but understand not; and see you indeed, but perceive not. Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed. When Jesus spoke Gods' Word and God's people closed their eyes and ears to hearing and seeing Gods' Word Jesus quoted Isaiah 6:9-10 and said to His disciples concerning them, " Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand and in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which said, By hearing you shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing you shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear." - Matthew 13:13-16. So God's blessing is for all those who hear and believe Gods Word not for those who close their eyes and ears to believing and obeying what Gods' Word says. The Apostle Paul had the same problem as Isaiah and Jesus in Acts of the Apostles 28:22-27 from those calling Christs disciples a sect and did not want to hear God's Words. So we should all be careful not to close our eyes and ears to believing and obeying what Gods' Word says. According to the scriptures the many will be called but only the few will be chosen *Matthew 24:14

I already mentioned that your position appears to be 'Sola Some Scripture But Not Other Scripture'. I guess you think it works for you but it is a deeply flawed method. It will only confirm what you already believe (a sinful Mary, no confession, an unsubstantiated canon for the Bible, probably a host of other things) and it does not allow you to be challenged by the Bible to find more accurate truth. Me? I can check out and investigate what Scripture means. I can ask what the Fathers of the Church said. I can ask what the councils of the Church said. Have you closed yourself off from all of that? What? to be a lone ranger? I benefit from almost two thousand years of Bible Study by prayerful people. Do you reject all of that? Sounds like it. You're not interested, as you said. OK. I leave you to it.

For me, he must increase and I must decrease. I only point all to the Word of God for all that have eyes to see and ears to hear because it is there we find the one who loves us that we may love him. I know him and am known by him. All that he shows me I see and must show to all because I am blind. He tells me it is those that say they see that do not see. These are they that have once known him or do not know him. There is only life in the living Word. These are his Words and not my own. Freely I give because freely I have received. I must speak in the light and what I hear preach in the housetops. Many will not hear because they do not know Him. He is the Word of God and those that believe him are those that he has chosen. They follow him because they love him and are loved by him. Many are called but few are chosen. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgment day. For he whom God hath sent speaks the words of God: for he gives not the Spirit by measure but many do not hear when they close their eyes to see and their ears to hear. Let's all pray we are not of those who harden their hearts to hearing and seeing what Gods' Word says and remain with the many that are called and not with the few that are chosen. This is why scripture alone (Gods' Word) is the only rule of faith because our faiths comes from Gods Word *Romans 10:17.

Take Care.

 

[fhansen]

The scriptures are the only rule of faith because they are Gods' inspired word that we are to believe and follow.

That's pure speculation. We're to heed and live by God's word-which is not possible if it's misunderstood. And that is why we need the input of the church with the full revelation given to her at the beginning. No one is arguing that Scripture is not the word of God, only that it is not the only source of that word, of His expression to humankind and that, even if it was, that word must be accurately understood, which Sola Scriptura fans have proven over and over again is so often not the case by their, often reasonable, disagreements. So, again, it was Christ's disciples who could explain the OT to people in light of the unwritten-at that point-revelation they had received. And, as a point in fact, the Reformers as a whole got justification wrong right out of the gate.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

That's pure speculation. We're to heed and live by God's word-which is not possible if it's misunderstood. And that is why we need the input of the church with the full revelation given to her at the beginning. No one is arguing that Scripture is not the word of God, only that it is not the only source of that word, of His expression to humankind and that, even if it was, that word must be accurately understood, which Sola Scriptura fans have proven over and over again is so often not the case by their, often reasonable, disagreements. So, again, it was Christ's disciples who could explain the OT to people in light of the unwritten-at that point-revelation they had received. And, as a point in fact, the Reformers as a whole got justification wrong right out of the gate.

There is no speculation in faith in Gods' Word as God's Word is a sure thing to those who believe and obey what Gods' Word says. It is as simple as believing and following what Gods' Word says but faith is not separate from Gods' Word faith is believing and following what Gods' Word says. That is what the scriptures teach in Romans 10:17; John 3:36 and Matthew 7:21. None of us need to worry about not knowing the truth of God's Word if we believe and trust in Gods' promises (see John 7:17; John 16:13; 1 John 2:27) and God is our guide and teacher. God promises to give us His Spirit to guide us and teach us His Word if we continue in the faith believing and following what His Word says *see John 14:26; Acts of the Apostles 5:31; John 8:31-36. This is the victory that overcomes the world even our faith *1 John 5:4 and faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. This is why the scriptures are the only rule of faith we are to believe and follow and live by.

Take Care.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

There is no speculation in faith in Gods' Word. It is as simple as believing and following what Gods' Word says. That is what the scriptures teach in Romans 10:17; John 3:36 and Matthew 7:21. None of us need to worry about not knowing the truth of God's Word if we believe and trust in Gods' promises (see John 7:17; John 16:13; 1 John 2:27) and God is the guide and teacher. God promises to give us His Spirit to guide us and teach us His Word if we continue in the faith believing and following what His Word says *see John 14:26; Acts of the Apostles 5:31; John 8:31-36. This is the victory that overcomes the world even our faith *1 John 5:4 and faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. This is why the scriptures are the only rule of faith.

Take Care.

you say you follow scripture, but it appears you
Follow what you want and ignore what you don’t. It has lead you to an incorrect view of grace. It is not an arbitrary favor or license, just because you take the name of Jesus.
We are required to repent of all sins, God says be perfect as I am perfect; pursue holiness without which no one will see the Lord
Ezekiel says that I will take your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. I will cause you to walk in my statutes. That is grace. God does not ignore sin, rather He cleanses us from sin. If He can do that for us, how much more would He do for His own mother that His commandments require Him to honor? Are you telling me that Jesus painstakingly humbled Himself to follow the whole law and fulfill all righteousness, yet He would ignore His own mother? You don’t know Mary, her virtue is above reproach. She helped write the Gospel of John but her humility wont take credit for it. We look and see when our hearts are humble.
What did Jesus say at the foot of the cross? Woman behold thy son, son behold thy mother.
John writes things that he could not have known had he not spoken with Mary when he wrote his gospel. How did he know what was spoken at the wedding in Cana? I don’t think Jesus and Mary were on a loud speaker taking about there being know wine; it would have been a private conversation with mother and son. John knew the words because Mary told them to him.
At the last supper when John says Satan entered Judas, there was no way John knew that, as no one knew who the betrayer was except Our Lord. Mary told the events to John and He wrote them down. How did Mary know?
Because Jesus talks to her. She is His mother
You think that God, the creator of the universe, the perfection of all holiness and example of all humility would use a woman to be born into the world then discard her like a used candy wrapper?
When you close your mind and say I am only going to go by what scripture says instead of looking at the context in which it was written and the way in which the faith was practiced, you miss things, and you miss them because you want to miss them
We have people like that in the Catholic Church. They are called cafeteria Catholics, because they browse teaching and take what they like leave the rest. They do follow what they like and may appear pious, but if they are not following all of the teaching or humbly submitting until they do, they are not on the narrow path to life. They need to repent. We pray God opens their hearts.
A sola scripturist that does not believe all
of scripture is the same as that cafeteria Catholic. Take what they like, discard the rest. Claim something isn’t in scripture, show them that it is, they still don’t believe it because their heart won’t accept it. As the rich man in torment asked Abraham to send Lazarus back from the dead to warn his brothers about the torments after death, Abraham said they have the law and the prophets, let them believe them. If they will it believe the law and the prophets, neither will they believe someone that comes back from the dead
We could show you all day what is written in scripture, but you won’t accept it because you do not want to accept it. Only God can melt your heart, but you are not going to tell me that the Catholic Church is unbiblical or Antichrist because it does not fall in your narrow view of sola scriptura. It’s not true and we have shown you that it’s not true

 

[LoveGodsWord]

you say you follow scripture, but it appears you
Follow what you want and ignore what you don’t. It has lead you to an incorrect view of grace. It is not an arbitrary favor or license, just because you take the name of Jesus.
We are required to repent of all sins, God says be perfect as I am perfect; pursue holiness without which no one will see the Lord
Ezekiel says that I will take your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. I will cause you to walk in my statutes. That is grace. God does not ignore sin, rather He cleanses us from sin. If He can do that for us, how much more would He do for His own mother that His commandments require Him to honor? Are you telling me that Jesus painstakingly humbled Himself to follow the whole law and fulfill all righteousness, yet He would ignore His own mother? You don’t know Mary, her virtue is above reproach. She helped write the Gospel of John but her humility wont take credit for it. We look and see when our hearts are humble.
What did Jesus say at the foot of the cross? Woman behold thy son, son behold thy mother.
John writes things that he could not have known had he not spoken with Mary when he wrote his gospel. How did he know what was spoken at the wedding in Cana? I don’t think Jesus and Mary were on a loud speaker taking about there being know wine; it would have been a private conversation with mother and son. John knew the words because Mary told them to him.
At the last supper when John says Satan entered Judas, there was no way John knew that, as no one knew who the betrayer was except Our Lord. Mary told the events to John and He wrote them down. How did Mary know?
Because Jesus talks to her. She is His mother
You think that God, the creator of the universe, the perfection of all holiness and example of all humility would use a woman to be born into the world then discard her like a used candy wrapper?
When you close your mind and say I am only going to go by what scripture says instead of looking at the context in which it was written and the way in which the faith was practiced, you miss things, and you miss them because you want to miss them
We have people like that in the Catholic Church. They are called cafeteria Catholics, because they browse teaching and take what they like leave the rest. They do follow what they like and may appear pious, but if they are not following all of the teaching or humbly submitting until they do, they are not on the narrow path to life. They need to repent. We pray God opens their hearts.
A sola scripturist that does not believe all
of scripture is the same as that cafeteria Catholic. Take what they like, discard the rest. Claim something isn’t in scripture, show them that it is, they still don’t believe it because their heart won’t accept it. As the rich man in torment asked Abraham to send Lazarus back from the dead to warn his brothers about the torments after death, Abraham said they have the law and the prophets, let them believe them. If they will it believe the law and the prophets, neither will they believe someone that comes back from the dead
We could show you all day what is written in scripture, but you won’t accept it because you do not want to accept it. Only God can melt your heart, but you are not going to tell me that the Catholic Church is unbiblical or Antichrist because it does not fall in your narrow view of sola scriptura. It’s not true and we have shown you that it’s not true

For me, I live by faith in all of Gods' Word because it is through faith in Gods' Word *Ephesians 2:8-9 that I find newness of life *Romans 1:17; Romans 10:17; John 3:36. I follow scripture alone because according to the scriptures alone, there is only life in the living Word and faith is the key that unlocks the power of Gods Word of creation *John 3:36; Philippians 2:13; Genesis 1:1-31; John 1:1-4; 14; 1 John 5:4. For me, he must increase and I must decrease *John 3:20. I only point all to the Word of God because it is there we find the one who loves us that we may love him and it is only there that we find life to live *Jeremiah 29:13; John 8:31-36; John 17:17; John 3:36. I know him and am known by him *1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:6. He tells me it is those that say they see that do not see *Matthew 13:13-15. I am no one but he is all. What can I do without him *John 15:1-5? He is love and now I love *1 John 4:7. I follow him now because I love him *John 14:15 who first loved me *1 John 4:19. I do not judge you or anyone here but His Word will judge us all because they are there for all to see *John 12:47-48. All are welcome to see and hear God's Word, however many are called but few are chosen because they do not believe or hear His voice calling them *Matthew 24:14; John 10:26-27. My prayer and hope is that we all can hear His voice (the Word) and believe and follow him who calls us in love to love another. There is only life in the living Word of God which is why the scriptures are the only rule of faith because faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. *Romans 10:17. Therefore the scripture alone are the only rule of faith. Let's not deceive ourselves, there is no life outside of faith that comes from Gods' Word *Romans 10:17; John 3:36. When I am in Gods Word I see Jesus *John 15:4-10; 1 John 2:27. This is my prayer for everyone here.

Take Care.

 

[fhansen]

There is no speculation in faith in Gods' Word as God's Word is a sure thing to those who believe and obey what Gods' Word says. It is as simple as believing and following what Gods' Word says but faith is not separate from Gods' Word faith is believing and following what Gods' Word says. That is what the scriptures teach in Romans 10:17; John 3:36 and Matthew 7:21. None of us need to worry about not knowing the truth of God's Word if we believe and trust in Gods' promises (see John 7:17; John 16:13; 1 John 2:27) and God is the guide and teacher. God promises to give us His Spirit to guide us and teach us His Word if we continue in the faith believing and following what His Word says *see John 14:26; Acts of the Apostles 5:31; John 8:31-36. This is the victory that overcomes the world even our faith *1 John 5:4 and faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. This is why the scriptures are the only rule of faith.

Take Care.

Right. And yet you fail to know the faith…in its fullness and without admixture of error.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Right. And yet you fail to know the faith…

According to the scriptures we can only have faith as we believe and follow what Gods' Word says. There is no faith without believing God's Word according to the scriptures *see Romans 10:17. Therefore the scriptures are the only rule of faith because faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. I believe and follow what God's Word says so I am in the faith. We will let God be our judge *see Romans 2:1-8; John 12:47-48

 

[fhansen]

According to the scriptures we can only have faith as we believe and follow what Gods' Word says. There is no faith without believing God's Word according to the scriptures *see Romans 10:17 and also Romans 2:1-8. Therefore the scriptures are the only rule of faith because faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

Again, the word of God was received, held, and proclaimed before a word of the NT was written. And the NT was never intended to serve as some kind of exhaustive and clearly stated catechism. But people use it that way anyway while disagreeing on its meaning.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Again, the word of God was received, held, and proclaimed before a word of the NT was written. And the NT was never intended to serve as some kind of exhaustive and clearly stated catechism. But people use it that way anyway while disagreeing on its meaning.

According to the scriptures, the Word of God was before the NT and before the OT. It was before creation and created all things in heaven and earth. The Word was with God and the Word was God and all things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not *John 1:1-5. Faith in Gods' Word is the key that turns on the light that unlocks the Spirit of Gods' Word *John 6:63 as we believe and follow what Gods' Word says *1 John 5:4

 

[fhansen]

According to the scriptures, the Word of God was before the NT and before the OT. It was before creation and created all things in heaven and earth. The Word was with God and the Word was God and all things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not *John 1:1-5. Faith in Gods' Word is the key that turns on the light that unlocks the Spirit of Gods' Word *John 6:63 as we believe and follow what Gods' Word says *1 John 5:4

Ok, so at least you acknowledge that the word need not be written. Jesus expressed that Word, expressing Himself, by everything He said and did, some recorded and some not. There’s not a single reason why it should’ve all been recorded in written form, regardless of what some may prefer to believe.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Agreed. God gave Isaiah His Word to give to His people in Isaiah 6:9-10 and God said Go,
and tell this people, Hear you indeed, but understand not; and see you indeed, but perceive not. Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed. When Jesus spoke Gods' Word and God's people closed their eyes and ears to hearing and seeing Gods' Word Jesus quoted Isaiah 6:9-10 and said to His disciples concerning them, " Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand and in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which said, By hearing you shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing you shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear." - Matthew 13:13-16. So God's blessing is for all those who hear and believe Gods Word not for those who close their eyes and ears to believing and obeying what Gods' Word says. The Apostle Paul had the same problem as Isaiah and Jesus in Acts of the Apostles 28:22-27 from those calling Christs disciples a sect and did not want to hear God's Words. So we should all be careful not to close our eyes and ears to believing and obeying what Gods' Word says. According to the scriptures the many will be called but only the few will be chosen *Matthew 24:14

For me, he must increase and I must decrease. I only point all to the Word of God for all that have eyes to see and ears to hear because it is there we find the one who loves us that we may love him. I know him and am known by him. All that he shows me I see and must show to all because I am blind. He tells me it is those that say they see that do not see. These are they that have once known him or do not know him. There is only life in the living Word. These are his Words and not my own. Freely I give because freely I have received. I must speak in the light and what I hear preach in the housetops. Many will not hear because they do not know Him. He is the Word of God and those that believe him are those that he has chosen. They follow him because they love him and are loved by him. Many are called but few are chosen. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgment day. For he whom God hath sent speaks the words of God: for he gives not the Spirit by measure but many do not hear when they close their eyes to see and their ears to hear. Let's all pray we are not of those who harden their hearts to hearing and seeing what Gods' Word says and remain with the many that are called and not with the few that are chosen. This is why scripture alone (Gods' Word) is the only rule of faith because our faiths comes from Gods Word *Romans 10:17.

Take Care.

I am beyond amazed that you agreed with me that you have stopped up your ears and blinded your eyes so you would not see parts of Scripture you did not want to see. You say we all should be careful not to close our eyes and ears, which is true, but you agreed with me that you did just that in ignoring Biblical evidence you didn't want to hear.

It's a good prayer to pray that people not harden their heartsto hearing what God's Word says. And yet you have done that in refusing to inquire about Mary and kecharitomene.. And you admit you did it.

The problem with Sola Scriptura is that it sets up every person as their own authority in deciding what Scripture says and means. One can skip uncomfortable Scriptures and concentrate only on favorite Scriptures. One can say such and such a Scripture means this when it actually means that. And nobody can correct you. That's the biggest evil of Sola Scriptura. But Scripture was never intended to be alone. It was intended to be used in the Church, in the community of faith, with that community keeping the meaning and providing corrections to the interpretation. It is the Church which is guided by the Holy Spirit into all truth (Jn 16:13) and not you by your lonesome. Or me by my lonesome.

I'm not smart enough to comprehend the whole of Scripture. So using myself as the sole authority for what Scripture means is a recipe for disaster. I get to have the Fathers and the Councils and the Doctors of the Church and the popes to assist me in expanding my understanding beyond the natural capabilities of my little brain. If you reject all that, what are you left with? Your own limited understanding. You don't even get exposed to the pitfalls of so many heretics throughout history, and you risk falling into the same traps they did without even a clue.

Scripture is a two edged sword. Scripture even says so. Which is to say it can cut both ways. When we use it to teach it also teaches us. That is, it teaches us if we are bothering to listen while we use it. I don't see you going beyond your set interpretation, as if your interpretation was all there was. That's a weakness of Sola Scriptura too. We just are not smart enough to figure it all out. Which is why the Holy Spirit provided a whole Church to keep the interpretation so we could find the riches of the written word, the tradition of the apostles not written in the Scriptures (Jn 21:25). That is why the pillar and foundation of truth, according to Scripture in 1 Tim 3:15, is not the Scripture but ... wait for it ... the Church. Boy, is that a hard saying for a Sola Scriptura devotee.

One last thing. You said we were going to have to agree to disagree. Should that be the way of Christians? Just asking. In your scheme of Sola Scriptura, who gets to arbitrate between us? Nobody? Who is to say what truth is? Both of us, but different truths? In Scripture, if we disagree, who gets to arbitrate between us? There are apostles, then bishops and presbyters. Do you submit to your bishop? Do you even have a bishop? Who is he submitted to? Are you even submitted to a Council of the Church, which the bishops must submit to? As in the Council of Jerusalem recorded in Acts? Or are you independent of ALL of that, because you know, Sola Scriptura. So you and I can't ask our bishop, or even the pope, because you do not recognize such authorities as I do. We are at an impasse because of Sola Scriptura.

The central flaw of Sola Scriptura is that Scripture doesn't actually support it. Paul speaks a lot about tradition, quite often about how we should follow it. The Epistles are full of us being told to submit to authority, to our bishops in particular. The actual Scriptures portray a very different understanding of authority that what brother Martin Luther cooked up to convince people to follow him rather than their bishops. But then it all backfired as everybody thought they might as well be their own bishops and not listen to brother Martin any more. So we got what we have today. Everybody doew what they think is right in their own eyes. Judges 17:6. That's what we have. A mess. That's what Sola Scriptura has made for us. Korah's rebellion is relevant here as well.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

I am beyond amazed that you agreed with me that you have stopped up your ears and blinded your eyes so you would not see parts of Scripture you did not want to see. You say we all should be careful not to close our eyes and ears, which is true, but you agreed with me that you did just that in ignoring Biblical evidence you didn't want to hear.

It's a good prayer to pray that people not harden their heartsto hearing what God's Word says. And yet you have done that in refusing to inquire about Mary and kecharitomene.. And you admit you did it.

The problem with Sola Scriptura is that it sets up every person as their own authority in deciding what Scripture says and means. One can skip uncomfortable Scriptures and concentrate only on favorite Scriptures. One can say such and such a Scripture means this when it actually means that. And nobody can correct you. That's the biggest evil of Sola Scriptura. But Scripture was never intended to be alone. It was intended to be used in the Church, in the community of faith, with that community keeping the meaning and providing corrections to the interpretation. It is the Church which is guided by the Holy Spirit into all truth (Jn 16:13) and not you by your lonesome. Or me by my lonesome.

I'm not smart enough to comprehend the whole of Scripture. So using myself as the sole authority for what Scripture means is a recipe for disaster. I get to have the Fathers and the Councils and the Doctors of the Church and the popes to assist me in expanding my understanding beyond the natural capabilities of my little brain. If you reject all that, what are you left with? Your own limited understanding. You don't even get exposed to the pitfalls of so many heretics throughout history, and you risk falling into the same traps they did without even a clue.

Scripture is a two edged sword. Scripture even says so. Which is to say it can cut both ways. When we use it to teach it also teaches us. That is, it teaches us if we are bothering to listen while we use it. I don't see you going beyond your set interpretation, as if your interpretation was all there was. That's a weakness of Sola Scriptura too. We just are not smart enough to figure it all out. Which is why the Holy Spirit provided a whole Church to keep the interpretation so we could find the riches of the written word, the tradition of the apostles not written in the Scriptures (Jn 21:25). That is why the pillar and foundation of truth, according to Scripture in 1 Tim 3:15, is not the Scripture but ... wait for it ... the Church. Boy, is that a hard saying for a Sola Scriptura devotee.

One last thing. You said we were going to have to agree to disagree. Should that be the way of Christians? Just asking. In your scheme of Sola Scriptura, who gets to arbitrate between us? Nobody? Who is to say what truth is? Both of us, but different truths? In Scripture, if we disagree, who gets to arbitrate between us? There are apostles, then bishops and presbyters. Do you submit to your bishop? Do you even have a bishop? Who is he submitted to? Are you even submitted to a Council of the Church, which the bishops must submit to? As in the Council of Jerusalem recorded in Acts? Or are you independent of ALL of that, because you know, Sola Scriptura. So you and I can't ask our bishop, or even the pope, because you do not recognize such authorities as I do. We are at an impasse because of Sola Scriptura.

The central flaw of Sola Scriptura is that Scripture doesn't actually support it. Paul speaks a lot about tradition, quite often about how we should follow it. The Epistles are full of us being told to submit to authority, to our bishops in particular. The actual Scriptures portray a very different understanding of authority that what brother Martin Luther cooked up to convince people to follow him rather than their bishops. But then it all backfired as everybody thought they might as well be their own bishops and not listen to brother Martin any more. So we got what we have today. Everybody doew what they think is right in their own eyes. Judges 17:6. That's what we have. A mess. That's what Sola Scriptura has made for us. Korah's rebellion is relevant here as well.

This was exactly the point that Jordan Peterson was making in the OP that I posted. It’s a very profound speech and all should watch it again and again. His point being that we cannot rely on a book alone if it is too complicated to completely understand. It even says God’s ways are not our ways. We need to be humble enough to say we don’t know everything, then lean to those that have been promised by God to be free from error and the gates of hell will not prevail
The only one promised the keys to the kingdom of heaven is Peter. Where Peter is, there is the Church. When one leaves the teaching of Peter, they drift into error. The most glaring example is the teaching we can say Lord, Lord and get into heaven. They tell you good works are useless and won’t save you, just take Jesus as your savior. Oh what a wretched teaching that is, and the word of God is blasphemed among the gentiles because of it. If someone teaches it, it is the blind leading the blind, both will fall into the pit.
The true teaching is repentance, and believe the Gospel. Deny yourself, take up your cross and follow Jesus. That takes work, and if one thinks they do not have to do it, they are mistaken. Yes sin is difficult to overcome but it can be done; God promises if you lack anything, ask in my name and it will be given to you. Too many of us ask for earthly things to consume into our lusts, we ask for reasons to satisfy ourselves instead of glorifying God. The seven deadly sins are pride, lust, envy, wrath, greed, gluttony, and sloth. We know that but do we pray and ask God for the seven virtues? Humility, chastity, kindness, patience, generosity, temperance, and fortitude?
If some one has never prayed for those things, then they need to start now. Those that know the whole Bible and do nothing are like Satan and the demons. They know everything and do nothing because they oppose God.
We need to do the work of the Father, as Jesus says. If one finds it too hard, then they need to pray and ask God for the strength and wisdom to do His will. Jesus never said that if you followed Him, you would not be working, as He said take my yoke upon you. He did promise that his grace would empower you to follow Him, as whoever asks receives. The small works we start with are the sacraments, baptism, confession, Eucharist, confirmation, anointing, matrimony and Holy Orders. If we are faithful in small things, much greater works will be given us to do. If we rebel against those , we are stuck until we submit. I can personally testify to this. I believed in Jesus and took Him as savior for twenty years, but I was tormented by sin; when I submitted to His will, received the sacraments, and prayed to be set free, the sin that so easily beset me was gone. Now there is no turning back, but I press on toward the prize. Go to God and leave the world behind

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ According to the scriptures, the Word of God was before the NT and before the OT. It was before creation and created all things in heaven and earth. The Word was with God and the Word was God and all things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not *John 1:1-5. Faith in Gods' Word is the key that turns on the light that unlocks the Spirit of Gods' Word *John 6:63 as we believe and follow what Gods' Word says *1 John 5:4

Your response here...

Ok, so at least you acknowledge that the word need not be written. Jesus expressed that Word, expressing Himself, by everything He said and did, some recorded and some not. There’s not a single reason why it should’ve all been recorded in written form, regardless of what some may prefer to believe.

God has given us everything we need for salvation through His recorded written Word. Anything outside of the written Word of God is not needed for our salvation and the only way we can be saved is by faith in Gods' recorded written Word (scripture) *Romans 10:17.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Full post context and discussion provided here... post # 106 linked

chevyontheriver said: ↑ A person cannot see what they deliberately chose to not see. The question about Mary and kecharitomene was to provide you Biblical evidence for the sinlessness of Mary. And you denied it a priori, as in without even a hearing.

My response here...

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ Agreed. God gave Isaiah His Word to give to His people in Isaiah 6:9-10 and God said Go,and tell this people, Hear you indeed, but understand not; and see you indeed, but perceive not. Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed. When Jesus spoke Gods' Word and God's people closed their eyes and ears to hearing and seeing Gods' Word Jesus quoted Isaiah 6:9-10 and said to His disciples concerning them, " Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand and in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which said, By hearing you shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing you shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear." - Matthew 13:13-16. So God's blessing is for all those who hear and believe Gods Word not for those who close their eyes and ears to believing and obeying what Gods' Word says. The Apostle Paul had the same problem as Isaiah and Jesus in Acts of the Apostles 28:22-27 from those calling Christs disciples a sect and did not want to hear God's Words. So we should all be careful not to close our eyes and ears to believing and obeying what Gods' Word says. According to the scriptures the many will be called but only the few will be chosen *Matthew 24:14

For me, he must increase and I must decrease. I only point all to the Word of God for all that have eyes to see and ears to hear because it is there we find the one who loves us that we may love him. I know him and am known by him. All that he shows me I see and must show to all because I am blind. He tells me it is those that say they see that do not see. These are they that have once known him or do not know him. There is only life in the living Word. These are his Words and not my own. Freely I give because freely I have received. I must speak in the light and what I hear preach in the housetops. Many will not hear because they do not know Him. He is the Word of God and those that believe him are those that he has chosen. They follow him because they love him and are loved by him. Many are called but few are chosen. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgment day. For he whom God hath sent speaks the words of God: for he gives not the Spirit by measure but many do not hear when they close their eyes to see and their ears to hear. Let's all pray we are not of those who harden their hearts to hearing and seeing what Gods' Word says and remain with the many that are called and not with the few that are chosen. This is why scripture alone (Gods' Word) is the only rule of faith because our faiths comes from Gods Word *Romans 10:17.

Your response here...

I am beyond amazed that you agreed with me that you have stopped up your ears and blinded your eyes so you would not see parts of Scripture you did not want to see. You say we all should be careful not to close our eyes and ears, which is true, but you agreed with me that you did just that in ignoring Biblical evidence you didn't want to hear.

Well that is not true at all. As shown in the context of the discussion above I said no where in any post that I agreed with you that I have stopped hearing and seeing Gods' Word. I have been posted the opposite all through our discussion showing from the scriptures that our salvation is only by faith that comes by believing and obeying what Gods' Word says. Where did I post to you that I have stopped hearing and seeing God's Word? If I have never said such things why pretend that I have? To be honest I am, amazed that you would even suggest or say things I have never said.

I commented on and agreed to what you posted here; "A person cannot see what they deliberately chose to not see." You were provided quotes from Isaiah, Jesus and Paul all showing that many close their eyes and ears to hearing and seeing what God's Word says and I pray that would not be the case for any of us here. Although I know that many will be called and only the few will be chosen *Matthew 22:14.

You were also provided scripture in our discussion for context in post 101 linked showing that God's Word says both Jews and gentiles have all sinned *Romans 3:9 and that there is none righteous no not one *Romans 3:10 and that all have sinned *Romans 3:23 and again all the world is guilty before God of sin *Romans 3:19-20.

Paul here is talking about all mankind which include all men and all women here which also includes Mary who is a sinner in need of a Savior just like everyone of us. In order for you to prove that Mary was sinless you would need to provide scripture for that teaching and there is none. Then you would need to harmonize what Paul says in Romans 3:9-23 above. Although that will never happen as there is no scripture that says Mary is sinless. So you have a problem here in your belief that Mary was sinless as it is a teaching that is not biblical or supported in the scriptures. As shown above everything you have posted about Mary being sinless and God's greatest creation is not supported in the scriptures. This is a man-made teaching that is not supported by scripture. If you disagree provide the scripture that says Mary is sinless? As posted earlier I see this part of our discussion as a distraction to the OP subject matter. I was interested in talking about the OP and not interested in a discussion that Mary is sinless or not I personally only see the change or subject matter as not being relevant to the OP or something I am not interested in talking about to be honest.

It's a good prayer to pray that people not harden their heartsto hearing what God's Word says. And yet you have done that in refusing to inquire about Mary and kecharitomene.. And you admit you did it.

I have done no such thing. I have only provided scripture for what I believe which is in disagreement with what you believe and when I ask you for scripture that says Mary was sinless you have not provided any. You have been provided scripture many times now showing that the scriptures teach everyone of us have sinned and fall short of Gods' glory and that there is not a single human being apart from Jesus that was sinless. I have asked you multiple times now to show me a single scripture that says Mary was sinless in contradiction to what Paul writes in Romans 3:9-23. - Silence. If you have scripture that says Mary was sinless then show it. If not why seek to try and change the topic of the OP into something the OP is not talking about? The Greek word χαριτόω ( (kecharitōmenē | G5487) is used three times in the bible in Luke 1:28; Ephesians 1:6. The first use of the word is applied to Mary in Luke 1:28. The second two uses of the same word in Ephesians 1:6-7 is applied to "US" that is all those who believe and follow Gods' Word being saved by the blood of Christs sacrifice. The meaning of χαριτόω ( (kecharitōmenē | G5487) here simply meaning; to be highly favored and accepted before God, to make graceful. There is nothing in χαριτόω that says Mary was sinless and it's application was to Mary being highly favored above all woman for being chosen to the the mother of God and it's application to all those who choose to believe and follow what God's Word says and being saved by the blood of Christs sacrifice for our sins.

The problem with Sola Scriptura is that it sets up every person as their own authority in deciding what Scripture says and means. One can skip uncomfortable Scriptures and concentrate only on favorite Scriptures. One can say such and such a Scripture means this when it actually means that. And nobody can correct you. That's the biggest evil of Sola Scriptura. But Scripture was never intended to be alone. It was intended to be used in the Church, in the community of faith, with that community keeping the meaning and providing corrections to the interpretation. It is the Church which is guided by the Holy Spirit into all truth (Jn 16:13) and not you by your lonesome. Or me by my lonesome.

As posted earlier, there is no salvation outside of faith in God's Word alone and faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *Romans 10:17. Now if we are saved and receive God's salvation by Gods' grace through faith *Ephesians 2:8-9 and faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God, how can we have Gods' salvation when there is no Word or no faith that comes by hearing and believing what God's Word says? Any teaching that leads us away from God's Word leads us away from faith in God's Word and without faith it is impossible to please God *Hebrews 11:6 for whatsoever is not of faith in sin *Romans 14:23. There is only life in the living Word of God and our salvation and Gods' promise of eternal life only comes as we believe and follow what God's Word says according to the scriptures *see John 3:36; Matthew 7:21; 1 John 2:3-4.

I'm not smart enough to comprehend the whole of Scripture. So using myself as the sole authority for what Scripture means is a recipe for disaster. I get to have the Fathers and the Councils and the Doctors of the Church and the popes to assist me in expanding my understanding beyond the natural capabilities of my little brain. If you reject all that, what are you left with? Your own limited understanding. You don't even get exposed to the pitfalls of so many heretics throughout history, and you risk falling into the same traps they did without even a clue.

None of us can know Gods' Word if God is not our guide and teacher and if we seek to know God's Word through the teachings and traditions of men we can be in danger of being led away from God's Word to follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from Gods' Word to break the commandments of God that Jesus warns us about in Matthew 15:3-9. God promises to all those who want to know him "And you shall seek me, and find me, when you shall search for me with all your heart." - Jeremiah 29:13. We are to seek God through prayer and asking Him to be our guide and teacher as we seek Him through believing and following what His Word says. God's promises if we want to seek him with all of our heart though prayer and His Word that we will find him. He also tells us through His Word...

• John 31:31-36 [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed; [32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. [33], They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how say you, You shall be made free? [34], Jesus answered them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Whoever commits sin is the servant of sin.[35], And the servant stays not in the house for ever: but the Son stays ever. [36], If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.

• John 7:17 [17], If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

• John 16:13 [13], However, when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.

• John 14:26 [26], But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you.

• 1 John 2:27 [27], But the anointing which you have received of him stays in you, and you need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teaches you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it has taught you, you shall abide in him.

• John 17:17 [17], Sanctify them through your truth: your word is truth.

• John 6:63 [63], It is the spirit that quickens; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak to you, they are spirit, and they are life.

If we have faith all things are possible to those who believe. Without God's Word we have no life because faith and life comes from believing and following what Gods' Word says (John 3:36; Romans 10:17; Matthew 7:21; John 1026-27. Gods' promises are there for all to see and hear. Many are called however but only the few are chosen.

One last thing. You said we were going to have to agree to disagree. Should that be the way of Christians? Just asking. In your scheme of Sola Scriptura, who gets to arbitrate between us? Nobody? Who is to say what truth is? Both of us, but different truths? In Scripture, if we disagree, who gets to arbitrate between us? There are apostles, then bishops and presbyters. Do you submit to your bishop? Do you even have a bishop? Who is he submitted to? Are you even submitted to a Council of the Church, which the bishops must submit to? As in the Council of Jerusalem recorded in Acts? Or are you independent of ALL of that, because you know, Sola Scriptura. So you and I can't ask our bishop, or even the pope, because you do not recognize such authorities as I do. We are at an impasse because of Sola Scriptura.

According to the scriptures, God never forces anyone to believe and follow what His Word says. This is why the many are called but only the few are the chosen *Matthew 22:13. There is no scheme in scripture alone. It simply means that our salvation from from believing and following what God's Word says. It is God's Word alone that is the arbitrator of what truth is *see John 17:17; Romans 3:4. We should submit to everyone that God has but in charge of us as in the Lord. That is if they are following and teaching the truth of Gods' Word. If they do not then as should be as Peter who says we ought to obey God rather than men *See Acts of the Apostles 5:29. There is only unity along believers if they are in the faith of the truth of Gods' Word. There is no unity outside of faith in God's Word because faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. Jesus is the living Word of God and it is he who is the only head of His Church who is the body of Christ according to the scriptures *Colossians 1:18.

The central flaw of Sola Scriptura is that Scripture doesn't actually support it. Paul speaks a lot about tradition, quite often about how we should follow it. The Epistles are full of us being told to submit to authority, to our bishops in particular. The actual Scriptures portray a very different understanding of authority that what brother Martin Luther cooked up to convince people to follow him rather than their bishops. But then it all backfired as everybody thought they might as well be their own bishops and not listen to brother Martin any more. So we got what we have today. Everybody doew what they think is right in their own eyes. Judges 17:6. That's what we have. A mess. That's what Sola Scriptura has made for us. Korah's rebellion is relevant here as well.

There is no central flaw in scripture alone. The flaw is in the teaching against it. This is because our salvation only comes by faith in Gods' Word (John 3:36) and faith comes from hearing and hearing from the Word of God *Romans 10:17. Therefore there is no salvation without faith in God's Word and no faith without Gods' Word. Therefore there is no other way to Gods' grace without faith because without faith it is impossible to please God and whatsoever is not of faith is sin in God's eyes (see Hebrews 11:6 and Romans 14:23). Therefore our salvation is dependent on faith in scripture alone which means that the scriptures are the only rule of faith because faith comes from Gods' Word alone.

Take Care.

 

[fhansen]

Your response here...

God has given us everything we need for salvation through His recorded written Word. Anything outside of the written Word of God is not needed for our salvation and the only way we can be saved is by faith in Gods' recorded written Word (scripture) *Romans 10:17.

Pure, unadulterated, guess-work and presumption there.